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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.08:47 KST - Summary:Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) |
On June 05 2012 12:08 Insane wrote:OK, so I'm inclined to believe Spades hacks, given a large amount of evidence and "coincidences". However, 32:50 on Tal'Darim doesn't prove much I don't think. If you look at the replay, at 32:21 then his scan sees a couple dropships. + Show Spoiler + It lasts less than a second in time, so it's easy to miss, but I do think those two dropships could've tipped him off.
That's the most random scan I've ever seen..
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On June 05 2012 12:05 Spades wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 11:58 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Catz seems pretty sure here... he better be careful though, if he is wrong then he is going to have to make some HUGE apologies It won't matter, mob mentality is working against me. I will never been "proven" innocent. If they want to find suspicious actions they will, and all of their fans will take everything they say as fact. They keep saying i camera lock whenever i go over fog of war. And other times they say "here he is looking in fog of war" If i had camera lock how am i looking in fog of war. This makes no sense and contradicts itself. I knew no good would come of them analyzing, because anything except 100% innocence, condemns me.
This is why what they're doing is wrong, streaming this analysis is very unprofessional and is the wrong way to go.
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On June 05 2012 11:52 Sideburn wrote:
This is super bizarre to me. The OP fucking PRIMED everyone to be suspicious. Of course people found the play to be suspicious.
If OP had said "Hey, look at how questionable some of the decisions he made were. He's pretty bad, lol!" people wouldn't see hacking, they would just see weird and "bad" play. Why are people so eager to witch hunt? I'm not even going to comment on whether or not I think he is hacking, just that this is by far one of the worst possible ways to go exposing such a thing. I would be concerned about confirmation bias too. Some double blind test is needed.
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On June 05 2012 12:06 kasperklysner wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 11:58 MVega wrote:On June 05 2012 11:49 Spades wrote:
I am playing very badly. I'm watching the screen. I really wish some hacker would come and clarify how all this works so I dont get called out for some "screen lock" Don't worry, you know you didn't cheat. The way that the screen lock works, and I spent like an hour reading the technical details of that btw since this thread is so popular, it's pretty obvious you weren't using it. For one it's supposedly an option that you have to toggle each time you want to look into the fog of war. In other words you would have to be the most active and yet worst map hacker ever to turn that on every single time you looked into the fog of war. Secondly it auto toggles itself off if you start to do other stuff. So all this talk about your camera being focused on X for a long time being indicative of cheating is wrong since it's very evident that at all times you're performing other actions in that location where the camera is locked ... Otherwise the screen lock would have toggled itself off. It's designed to work that way so that it doesn't look too suspicious. Pretty shocking that people are taking a guy's career so lightly. :/ The hack that is not free auto camera locks on Fog, also it doesn't cancel the lock to do other actions, perhaps you didn't do enough research.  And I have absolutely nothing against Spades. Kinda feel like I have to put that in here.
That makes absolutely 0 sense. The paid version is worse than the free version? Hah? Who is designing maphacks these days, EA?
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On June 05 2012 12:09 knOxStarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 12:05 Spades wrote:On June 05 2012 11:58 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Catz seems pretty sure here... he better be careful though, if he is wrong then he is going to have to make some HUGE apologies It won't matter, mob mentality is working against me. I will never been "proven" innocent. If they want to find suspicious actions they will, and all of their fans will take everything they say as fact. They keep saying i camera lock whenever i go over fog of war. And other times they say "here he is looking in fog of war" If i had camera lock how am i looking in fog of war. This makes no sense and contradicts itself. I knew no good would come of them analyzing, because anything except 100% innocence, condemns me. This is why what they're doing is wrong, streaming this analysis is very unprofessional and is the wrong way to go.
They wouldn't be doing it if they were not convinced.
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After watching the Catz/illusion stream i'm convinced. Spades is a hacker.
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On June 05 2012 12:09 knOxStarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 12:05 Spades wrote:On June 05 2012 11:58 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Catz seems pretty sure here... he better be careful though, if he is wrong then he is going to have to make some HUGE apologies It won't matter, mob mentality is working against me. I will never been "proven" innocent. If they want to find suspicious actions they will, and all of their fans will take everything they say as fact. They keep saying i camera lock whenever i go over fog of war. And other times they say "here he is looking in fog of war" If i had camera lock how am i looking in fog of war. This makes no sense and contradicts itself. I knew no good would come of them analyzing, because anything except 100% innocence, condemns me. This is why what they're doing is wrong, streaming this analysis is very unprofessional and is the wrong way to go.
What's so wrong about it? It's transparent for us viewers, which I like. Everything they are saying is fair.
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On June 05 2012 12:08 Insane wrote:OK, so I'm inclined to believe Spades hacks, given a large amount of evidence and "coincidences". However, 32:50 on Tal'Darim doesn't prove much I don't think. If you look at the replay, at 32:21 then his scan sees a couple dropships. It lasts less than a second in time, so it's easy to miss, but I do think those two dropships could've tipped him off.
Yay research, maybe that will calm the storm
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Northern Ireland27477 Posts
On June 05 2012 12:06 Quesadilla wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 12:03 Sideburn wrote:On June 05 2012 11:59 legaton wrote:
Isn't all of this a good example of a teleological argument? All actions are interpreted as posteriori as goal-oriented because everybody is looking for causality (in this case, hacking). I don't know why he moved the army, whatever the reason, he was lucky to do it as it coincidentally helped him to deal with a drop. Coincidences are suspicious? Maybe, but the setting of the Catz/Illusion tribunal show is über biased as they are selecting the moments where the "abnormal" decisions of Spades help him, but they never show when Spades decisions prove to be awful. I saw three of the replays and he actually deals with drops pretty badly more often than not. But of course, if you handpick some stuff, it is easy to create a "suspicious series of coincidences". I don't think people understand this at all. Catz and friends are determined to prove something and are experiencing confirmation bias HARDCORE. "What, Spades did something out of the ordinary that wasn't 100% safe and standard? CLEARLY HACKING." I'm not even defending Spades. I have no idea if he was hacking. I do however feel that this tribunal, as you put it is about as wrong as it gets, even if it is eventually revealed that Spades was in fact hacking. I seriously hope TL takes a stand against this kind of shit. These guys are pathetic. These are the exact reasons why the community has already sunk below a level of quality and community that Brood War maintained. TeamLiquid is, unfortunately, not the community I was a part of for years before this. People are chomping at the bit to tear each other apart. Anymore, the only reason to attend events is to catch grand final matches, and more importantly, see good friends. Sad.
Pretty much this, was looking at some threads from way back in the BW days and the place seemed to have more of a chilled, respectful vibe to it. Sadly the bigger anything gets, the more idiots who think their voices HAVE to be heard are around.
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Looks like Orb may have some company soon in the "My career got pitchforked" club.
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Catz just said his camera was still (on Antiga, in the middle), but you could clearly see he was doing stuff, like selecting units and unsieging units. No shit that's going to take 2 seconds?
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On June 05 2012 12:08 bennyaus wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 12:06 Parcelleus wrote:
Catz and co stream is just a biased joke, are they all like angry teens or something ?
Dont worry Spades, you seem to be in the clear - you provided 50 replays to be scrutinized so you are in the clear.
Some folks like catz and co are just making fools of themselves with their 'best guesses'. Providing 50 replays puts him in the clear? Talk about biased.....
Yep let me clarify for you, there is no concrete proof - he is in the clear.
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For everyone saying that Catz/Illusion/TT1 are trying to hard to prove that he is hacking let me remind you how serious these allegations are. TT1 especially knows how serious this, and would not simply accuse a player of this. Pro players in general understand how fishy Spades gameplay is, better than we will, and will far less likely to bandwagon/hate on a player.
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On June 05 2012 12:03 NExt wrote:Watching CatZ analyse... sorry Spades. Its been proven for me. 
Same here (watching), but not proven for me yet. They focusing on anything and everything that seems suspicious, but not saying anything about stuff that would disprove maphack, such as moving a medivac into an expo for a drop, sees a turret and then turns around and doesnt go at all. Didn't hear them say anything about that...?
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Okay 15:40 on Antiga I held my tongue but now im convinced... sigh...
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On June 05 2012 12:05 Spades wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 11:58 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Catz seems pretty sure here... he better be careful though, if he is wrong then he is going to have to make some HUGE apologies It won't matter, mob mentality is working against me. I will never been "proven" innocent. If they want to find suspicious actions they will, and all of their fans will take everything they say as fact. They keep saying i camera lock whenever i go over fog of war. And other times they say "here he is looking in fog of war" If i had camera lock how am i looking in fog of war. This makes no sense and contradicts itself. I knew no good would come of them analyzing, because anything except 100% innocence, condemns me.
are you playing dumb or simply not understanding how they described camera lock to work? They mean if it within your units are as in they are just outside of fog of war then they will be on screen but how you moused over where his units happened to be in fog of war. Looks like your going down with the ship....again
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And the SC2 scene has been hit. Spades I watched you when I started playing. You were wicked to watch and i learned a lot! I went from Bronze to Gold pretty quick. Honestly I don't think your hacking. Doesn't matter how much of it I have watched, it all has a sense. Tbh if I have lost respect for anyone it would be Illusion and Catz for the what is going on. If these "pros" thought for a moment what they are doing to someone's career, instead of just trying to make a few quick bucks, then they would answer on a way more unbiased view. They know that hate generates attention. Attention means stream viewers, stream viewers means dolla dolla bills yo.
Spades keep it up! Go to Anahiem and get up to the Semi Finals at least. There are admins, pro's, and sponsors there. Ya they are going to be watching you like a hawk. Fuck the nerves man and use it as energy. Ball out like a pimping baller and fuck bitches and create your new image. What they did has really hurt you, but as much as it doesn't matter, I support you man!
@illusions Man trying to make some quick bucks eh? I have followed you for a long time. Never thought you would stoop to such a low level. So if we go over all your replays and find some "suspicious" things, make a new account for anonymity, and make an accusation, we could ruin your pro career. You lost a fan man and probably many more. Way to be immature!
![[image loading]](http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTyqR6WnGQgzjI76pp9x_KPD_BR9og4uYyQ4fsGr3sc4FvHI4Ur)
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I wish Catz would demonstrate on screen for US and not for the guys on Skype. It's really impossible to follow wtf they're talking about. He never makes it clear.
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How can there be that many coincidences? IF people really want to they can find an excuse for everything. I dont think somebody can be this "lucky".
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On June 05 2012 12:07 Starshaped wrote:
OK, The game on Cloud Kingdom shows 100% that he hacks. The tanks that move 0.0001 inches and then re-siege for no reason with no vision.
Man, i play terran and i do that like ten times a game in TvT, i call it advancing carefully. I usually do it when i have no vision as i fear siege tanks.
Well, i'm going to sleep, i tried to argue but you can fight the stupidity of Catz stream/ I just wanted to say what he's doing is intellectually and morally disgusting. Despreciable.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/QzDj9.jpg)
It lasts less than a second in time, so it's easy to miss, but I do think those two dropships could've tipped him off. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/QzDj9l.jpg)
