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[?] Spades hacking? - Page 63

Forum Index > SC2 General
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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here

10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.

08:47 KST - Summary:
Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open.

Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims.

(also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here)
sertman
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States540 Posts
June 05 2012 03:06 GMT
#1241
http://www.twitch.tv/kingspades/b/320339839

i literally just skipped to 31:50 and found examples of spades leading with tanks blindly and he's clearly not hacking. they made a huge deal out of that in the shakuras game they reviewed. please do your research, watch this ladder stream and see if he plays the same way,
kasperklysner
Profile Joined October 2011
Denmark44 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-05 03:08:27
June 05 2012 03:06 GMT
#1242
On June 05 2012 11:58 MVega wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 11:49 Spades wrote:
I am playing very badly. I'm watching the screen. I really wish some hacker would come and clarify how all this works so I dont get called out for some "screen lock"


Don't worry, you know you didn't cheat.

The way that the screen lock works, and I spent like an hour reading the technical details of that btw since this thread is so popular, it's pretty obvious you weren't using it. For one it's supposedly an option that you have to toggle each time you want to look into the fog of war. In other words you would have to be the most active and yet worst map hacker ever to turn that on every single time you looked into the fog of war.

Secondly it auto toggles itself off if you start to do other stuff. So all this talk about your camera being focused on X for a long time being indicative of cheating is wrong since it's very evident that at all times you're performing other actions in that location where the camera is locked ... Otherwise the screen lock would have toggled itself off. It's designed to work that way so that it doesn't look too suspicious.

Pretty shocking that people are taking a guy's career so lightly. :/

The hack that is not free auto camera locks on Fog, also it doesn't cancel the lock to do other actions, perhaps you didn't do enough research.
And I have absolutely nothing against Spades.
Kinda feel like I have to put that in here.
Sylfyre
Profile Joined January 2012
Australia222 Posts
June 05 2012 03:06 GMT
#1243
Not convinced yet, but that 32:40 is a consideration. I can't see a justification for moving that big a chunk of your army for the information spades had =(

Still not convinced beyond reasonable doubt yet though.
Parcelleus
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia1662 Posts
June 05 2012 03:06 GMT
#1244
Catz and co stream is just a biased joke, are they all like angry teens or something ?

Dont worry Spades, you seem to be in the clear - you provided 50 replays to be scrutinized so you are in the clear.

Some folks like catz and co are just making fools of themselves with their 'best guesses'.
*burp*
Quesadilla
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States1814 Posts
June 05 2012 03:06 GMT
#1245
On June 05 2012 12:03 Sideburn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 11:59 legaton wrote:
Isn't all of this a good example of a teleological argument? All actions are interpreted as posteriori as goal-oriented because everybody is looking for causality (in this case, hacking). I don't know why he moved the army, whatever the reason, he was lucky to do it as it coincidentally helped him to deal with a drop. Coincidences are suspicious? Maybe, but the setting of the Catz/Illusion tribunal show is über biased as they are selecting the moments where the "abnormal" decisions of Spades help him, but they never show when Spades decisions prove to be awful. I saw three of the replays and he actually deals with drops pretty badly more often than not. But of course, if you handpick some stuff, it is easy to create a "suspicious series of coincidences".


I don't think people understand this at all. Catz and friends are determined to prove something and are experiencing confirmation bias HARDCORE.

"What, Spades did something out of the ordinary that wasn't 100% safe and standard? CLEARLY HACKING."

I'm not even defending Spades. I have no idea if he was hacking. I do however feel that this tribunal, as you put it is about as wrong as it gets, even if it is eventually revealed that Spades was in fact hacking. I seriously hope TL takes a stand against this kind of shit.


These guys are pathetic. These are the exact reasons why the community has already sunk below a level of quality and community that Brood War maintained. TeamLiquid is, unfortunately, not the community I was a part of for years before this. People are chomping at the bit to tear each other apart.

Anymore, the only reason to attend events is to catch grand final matches, and more importantly, see good friends. Sad.
Make a lot of friends. Wear good clothes. Drink good beer. Love a nice girl.
lac29
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1485 Posts
June 05 2012 03:07 GMT
#1246
Fact is we will never 100% prove him innocent or guilty. There are always excuses like luck to explain things.
GoShox
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States1850 Posts
June 05 2012 03:07 GMT
#1247
Sorry but they're trying wayyy too hard to find him guilty.
shivver
Profile Joined June 2011
United States232 Posts
June 05 2012 03:07 GMT
#1248
Based on what I've seen and read up to page 21

I have to agree with Nerchio, a lot of this is big time nit picking. People do dumb things sometimes, it happens all the time.

This is looking like a witch hunt
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27478 Posts
June 05 2012 03:07 GMT
#1249
On June 05 2012 12:05 swinkles wrote:
just the fact that a supposedly professional/semi pro level player goes the entire game (cloud kingdom) without a single scout or scan proves either A: spades is one of the most technically and well thought out player in the world (in that he knows his opponent's tendencies and builds so thoroughly, or B:he has map hacks that have vision over his opponents tech.

i'd go with the ladder

Have you ever watched Bomber play? Guy plays plenty of games never so much as glancing as his opponents movements, cutting scans for eco-whorage is commonplace from many of the streams I'm watching.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
TL+ Member
Starshaped
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Sweden575 Posts
June 05 2012 03:07 GMT
#1250
OK, The game on Cloud Kingdom shows 100% that he hacks. The tanks that move 0.0001 inches and then re-siege for no reason with no vision.
My Starcraft 2, gaming and e-sports-related blog: http://starshapedthoughts.blogspot.com/
sGSuperSlinkY
Profile Joined May 2011
United States72 Posts
June 05 2012 03:07 GMT
#1251
i would like to see what the pros/semi pros have to say about his replay packs he posted. If anything concrete would be exposed it would be in those replay packs. I would hate to see a player of this caliber lose his career over something trivial but to the integrity of the game, if this is true, its disrespectful to the community and to other pro players and fans. So im going on the basis of the "innocent until proven guilty" clause, but what comes out of the analysis of those replay packs will truly be definitive.
member of team iP (impressive Play)
whiterabbit
Profile Joined June 2009
2675 Posts
June 05 2012 03:08 GMT
#1252
I can't imagine how Spades feels if he really never used hacks in SC2. TL thread of 62 pages, big Reddit thread and 2 Streams with total of like 6k people agreeing on everything CatZ/Illusion/Drewbie say and take as the fact of hacking even if everything is based on "fishy/not standard/lucky/etc" evidence.

Meh...

Mob has tooooo much power, and now even prominent figures on the scene decided to benefit from it and other's misery.
NUTELLA y u no make me skinny?!?
Insane
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States4991 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-05 03:09:13
June 05 2012 03:08 GMT
#1253
OK, so I'm inclined to believe Spades hacks, given a large amount of evidence and "coincidences". However, 32:50 on Tal'Darim doesn't prove much I don't think. If you look at the replay, at 32:21 then his scan sees a couple dropships.

[image loading]
It lasts less than a second in time, so it's easy to miss, but I do think those two dropships could've tipped him off.
MVega
Profile Joined November 2010
763 Posts
June 05 2012 03:08 GMT
#1254
On June 05 2012 12:05 Spades wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 11:58 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Catz seems pretty sure here... he better be careful though, if he is wrong then he is going to have to make some HUGE apologies

It won't matter, mob mentality is working against me. I will never been "proven" innocent. If they want to find suspicious actions they will, and all of their fans will take everything they say as fact. They keep saying i camera lock whenever i go over fog of war. And other times they say "here he is looking in fog of war" If i had camera lock how am i looking in fog of war. This makes no sense and contradicts itself. I knew no good would come of them analyzing, because anything except 100% innocence, condemns me.


Not necessarily. Just keep playing legit and eventually they'll either shut up or everyone else will get sick of them.
bumkin: How can you play like 50 games per day... I 4gate 2 times then it's nap time
PanN
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States2828 Posts
June 05 2012 03:08 GMT
#1255
On June 05 2012 12:06 Parcelleus wrote:
Catz and co stream is just a biased joke, are they all like angry teens or something ?

Dont worry Spades, you seem to be in the clear - you provided 50 replays to be scrutinized so you are in the clear.

Some folks like catz and co are just making fools of themselves with their 'best guesses'.


You must of missed 32:50 on taldarim. Spades takes 5-6 tanks, the only tanks, the only thing defending his third. Moves them north to defend a drop coming a mile away, then scans right by the drop. If he was suspicious enough of a drop to move his army to defend it, why would he scan? This was extremely weird.
We have multiple brackets generated in advance. Relax . (Kennigit) I just simply do not understand how it can be the time to play can be 22nd at 9:30 pm PST / midnight the 23rd at the same time. (GGzerg)
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
June 05 2012 03:08 GMT
#1256
On June 05 2012 12:07 lac29 wrote:
Fact is we will never 100% prove him innocent or guilty. There are always excuses like luck to explain things.


Are you watching a stream of analysis? I thought the same thing til I watched.
babylon
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
8765 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-05 03:10:10
June 05 2012 03:08 GMT
#1257
On June 05 2012 12:06 kasperklysner wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 11:58 MVega wrote:
On June 05 2012 11:49 Spades wrote:
I am playing very badly. I'm watching the screen. I really wish some hacker would come and clarify how all this works so I dont get called out for some "screen lock"


Don't worry, you know you didn't cheat.

The way that the screen lock works, and I spent like an hour reading the technical details of that btw since this thread is so popular, it's pretty obvious you weren't using it. For one it's supposedly an option that you have to toggle each time you want to look into the fog of war. In other words you would have to be the most active and yet worst map hacker ever to turn that on every single time you looked into the fog of war.

Secondly it auto toggles itself off if you start to do other stuff. So all this talk about your camera being focused on X for a long time being indicative of cheating is wrong since it's very evident that at all times you're performing other actions in that location where the camera is locked ... Otherwise the screen lock would have toggled itself off. It's designed to work that way so that it doesn't look too suspicious.

Pretty shocking that people are taking a guy's career so lightly. :/

The hack that is not free auto camera locks on Fog, also it doesn't cancel the lock to do other actions, perhaps you didn't do enough research.

I've looked at sources that suggest MVega is correct. Maybe you should provide your own sources. I would be willing to believe you if you do.

It has been stated time and time again even on the website of the person who made the maphack himself that camera lock is disabled when unit commands are issued and that unit selections do not show up when you are in camera lock.
bennyaus
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Australia1833 Posts
June 05 2012 03:08 GMT
#1258
On June 05 2012 12:06 Parcelleus wrote:
Catz and co stream is just a biased joke, are they all like angry teens or something ?

Dont worry Spades, you seem to be in the clear - you provided 50 replays to be scrutinized so you are in the clear.

Some folks like catz and co are just making fools of themselves with their 'best guesses'.


Providing 50 replays puts him in the clear? Talk about biased.....
I play Random - HuK, DRG + Liquid fan
Pwnographics
Profile Joined January 2011
New Zealand1097 Posts
June 05 2012 03:08 GMT
#1259
spades just decides to take 5 seconds breaks a multiple times every game for no reason?
mYiKane
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada1772 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-05 03:09:28
June 05 2012 03:09 GMT
#1260
On June 05 2012 12:04 LimitSEA wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 12:02 LgNKane wrote:
watching catz stream right now, REALLY hard to believe spades isn't maphacking after seeing some of the stuff. like, incredibly hard.

The Cloud Kingdom game with Theognis is pretty telling for me, with the opening combined with the unsiege - move two inches - resiege. Nothing concrete, really, but very silly if he were playing legit.


the antiga one they just did was pretty convincing too. with the hellion defense (that was fine) but then the screen lock snapping back to the army instantly and stimming was way too fast for human reflexes.
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