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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here 10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here. 08:47 KST - Summary: Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) | ||
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Rowrin
United States280 Posts
On June 05 2012 10:23 mememolly wrote: posting your last X competitive/online tourney games would have made more sense He posted those, cause that is what everyone was screaming for, now that those are out people are going to want something more, its a never ending cycle. | ||
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TT1
Canada10016 Posts
On June 05 2012 10:24 legaton wrote: I'm surprised everybody is OK with the fact the OP is a smurf account. In the internet, everyone if anonymous and the consequences of our virtual actions on our daily life are almost nonexistent. Yet, people are truly attached to their avatars and forum personas, and they are also attached to the prestige their name may carry (or not) on some communities. Using a smurf (100% sure he's a member of the community or he wouldn't caree about Spades and the drama) he doesn't for posting such a serious accusation as hacking means he doesn't want to bare with the consequences of his decision of accusing Spades. This situation is pretty unequal as Spades reputation is tainted (the discussion is as spurious as trying to prove the existence of god), yet the OP hides his identity behind a smurf account. Frankly, if you are going to stir up so much shit, you should at least have the balls to do it with your main account. yea the admins should check to see if the OP has any under accounts on TL | ||
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rd
United States2586 Posts
On June 05 2012 10:21 whiterabbit wrote: It is like community where majority of people are mediocre at game (me included) is feeding their self-esteem by showing how much power they have. Doesn't matter if Spades somehow proves he never used hacks in SC2, as someone with background of BW player who used hacks, his career or at least image is ruined. I can't believe this topic didn't get closed/deleted giving there is no real proof. And I love how few other pros jumped to throw cheap accusations basically saying "Hey, I think you are hacker but if you are not...well... sowwy!" Hacker should be called out and surgically removed from the scene, but ruining someone's career without real proof is beyond bad and as I said, I can't believe TeamLiquid is assisting at doing so. It's still an open question. To close it now leaves it unanswered which is probably worse for spades. The evidence is very limited. If no proof can be found it'll probably be discarded as circumstantial and inconclusive. The evidence still has some merit though. It's unfortunate this thread was started with evidence as limited as it was, though. | ||
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Artok
Netherlands2219 Posts
On June 05 2012 10:21 whiterabbit wrote: It is like community where majority of people are mediocre at game (me included) is feeding their self-esteem by showing how much power they have. Doesn't matter if Spades somehow proves he never used hacks in SC2, as someone with background of BW player who used hacks, his career or at least image is ruined. I can't believe this topic didn't get closed/deleted giving there is no real proof. And I love how few other pros jumped to throw cheap accusations basically saying "Hey, I think you are hacker but if you are not...well... sowwy!" Hacker should be called out and surgically removed from the scene, but ruining someone's career without real proof is beyond bad and as I said, I can't believe TeamLiquid is assisting at doing so. probably the best post in the thread, im kind of sad that this whole thing is still going without even an opinion of lucifron that he played against. | ||
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On June 05 2012 10:23 mememolly wrote: posting your last X competitive/online tourney games would have made more sense No it wouldn't at all, because it is more than likely that Spades would have hacked on ladder because it isn't such a big stage. | ||
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Internet_justice
20 Posts
On June 05 2012 10:19 Doodsmack wrote: I'll preface this post by saying that I haven't reached a conclusion whether Spades is hacking, and my points here remain true regardless of whether Spades is in fact hacking. A mod should do an IP check of the OP and expose his main account. This should be done because of the manner in which the OP went about accusing Spades. He exaggerated and misinterpreted NUMEROUS times, in ways that can only lead us to conclude he did so deliberately. For example, claiming that moving an SCV to a watchtower w/o looking at the watchtower is evidence of a hack is simply dishonest, and intended to capitalize on the hasty-conclusion hive mind that was sure to follow his post. Just look at the first page of this thread, numerous people start assuming the OP is correct WHILE ADMITTING that they haven't watched the replay yet, simply because of how much text and timestamps the OP offered as supposed evidence. In other words the OP created the illusion of painstaking examination when in fact his evidence was HEAVILY circumstantial. It's only fair that his identity should be outed if he's going to pretend to be the judge and jury. I agree. I am for exposing the real identity of anyone who is hacking or spreading hack accusations. Hackers should be added to a list of shame for anyone googling their names to find. I have no problem with that and I support anyone who makes a blog. Witchhunts are a bad thing as is delivering pizzas to houses and prank calls etc. I don't support that. I support internet justice where people who decide to screw with people by hacking or by accusing people of hacks without SOLID proof lose their right to be anonymous. Impa and others should be added to a Teamliquid wiki with real names posted and refuse to take it down. What does it matter to these people that they ruin a game or ruin someone's career? Nothing because they can remake under a new identity. Fuck that. I already found a few of them. | ||
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Spades
United States249 Posts
On June 05 2012 10:19 quarkle wrote: Well done. !!! You've taken a huge step into clearing your name. Hopefully that should take some pressure off you.  https://rapidshare.com/files/511877116/5.rar the next 50 or so I havent played any relevant tournaments, I've been just streaming all my games and not doing much besides that. | ||
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Flonomenalz
Nigeria3519 Posts
On June 05 2012 10:23 mememolly wrote: posting your last X competitive/online tourney games would have made more sense Those are really hard to locate though, out of ALL his replays... | ||
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IamPryda
United States1186 Posts
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aznball123
2759 Posts
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9777 Posts
On June 05 2012 10:25 Rowrin wrote: He posted those, cause that is what everyone was screaming for, now that those are out people are going to want something more, its a never ending cycle. This is why this thread should have been immediately shut down (just my opinion, not telling TL how to run their forum). The longer its left running the more people are going to immediately make up their minds, and then they will NEVER change their opinion despite whatever evidence comes out. It should have been taken care of privately and then outed into the public. The whole thing seems like a nasty personal attack. Even that is wrong, though, because i'm inclined to a position but i am in no position to know any facts. I wish i could unsee this tread, but i can't  | ||
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Ansinjunger
United States2451 Posts
On June 05 2012 09:57 Kitchen.Sink wrote: Much like several others have mentioned, 7:30 on Metalopolis was what convinced me, too. Spades selects his army and begins juking and jiving at the exact moment Lucifron loads his hellions into the medivac. Spades then immediately adopts a path to intercept the hellions despite how, according to his vision, he cannot see them. Watch the moment several times, several times from Spade's perspective and several times from the everyone camera. It is extremely, extremely suspicious. 6:01: Spades sees enemy units approach the watchtower he controls with a marine. 6:09: He watches his marine die to an army consisting of 7 marines, 3 hellions, and 1 medevac. 6:20: He's basically macroing until his tank comes out, where he groups up his units to deal with the drop he rightly assumes is coming, having already seen the medevac, hellions, and marines. 6:30: Shots are fired between his marines and tank and the enemy marines with medevac support 6:40: Viking potshots at medevac 6:50: Macros, drops a mule, moves army briefly 7:00: Army idle again 7:10: Army still idle, tapping production, queues 2 marines 7:14: "Additional supply depots required." 7:19: Builds a supply depot 7:22: Starts patrolling army manually (a very small patrol about the length of a factory) 7:29: Right clicks on the ground far to the right of his mini-patrol of the last 7 seconds, which is on an intercept course with hellions he sees in his base right after, except that the hellions get away. He clicks to intercept the hellions a fraction of a second before he sees them. His units are too slow and the hellions get past to the back of the mineral line with enough time to kill a few SCVs. A couple things here: It's close air Metalopolis, my opponent has hellions and medevacs and already attempted some elevator which I shut down before it really happened. I go back to macroing but forget supply depots and get supply blocked. At this point, I am extremely alarmed while under the duress of close air harass, but in his case, probably more so because it's a show match. I can see how building a supply depot when you missed it is like a big giant reminder, which is why he resumes patrolling his army immediately after. The "suspicious" part where he right clicks just before seeing the hellions could possibly be luck and intuition, as opposed to maphacking. You just entered that slightly heightened state after being mad at yourself for forgetting a depot, and you realize, "hey, I don't have vision of that part of my base." That slightly delayed realization while trying to pull everything together (i.e., your wits and practice) is a far more natural and common explanation than map hack. If he's hacking, he's doing an incredible job pretending to be playing normal at this supposedly convincing 7:30 mark on Metalopolis. | ||
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Neeblet
United States10 Posts
On June 05 2012 10:14 Spades wrote: My last 50 something ladder games, none left out. includes 2 warmup games i played vs SanghooLeeMD right before the showmatch. https://rapidshare.com/files/624275372/New_folder__4_.rar Ladder games are worthless because there is nothing on the line so he obviously wouldn't maphack there. We need to find some recent online tournaments with spades in it and check out those reps. EDIT: Sorry for my ignorance, I didn't have time at the moment to research the showmatch and realize games weren't for any money/prize. | ||
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elliminist
Japan121 Posts
On June 05 2012 10:23 mememolly wrote: posting your last X competitive/online tourney games would have made more sense PRO players suggested that he post his ladder replay packs. He's now provided the proof. How much more bullshit does one need to take to give evidence of proof? Considering the original accusations were based off a no-prize show match, I don't see why u have anything of value to add by making your comment. | ||
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babylon
8765 Posts
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ampson
United States2355 Posts
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skatbone
United States1005 Posts
On June 05 2012 07:27 Gogleion wrote: My understanding of the way that the hack works, is that if you move your camera to a place that you don't have vision, then it will hold the camera at the last place you did have vision. So if someone were to do this, it would show their camera scroll to the edge of their vision, then stop because it detects that there is no vision at the area. Unfortunately for you citizens of Salem, this does not happen in the games. All of the 'camera blocks' are in the middle of his base. So that means he would have to location hotkey the area, and then hotkey back to his base. All of the places that he would have to look, and the locations in his base would make it very difficult to manage all of this. Alternatively, one could click on the minimap to a place they have no vision of. Your post assumes that scrolling and hotkeying locations are the only way to navigate across the map | ||
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oxxo
988 Posts
Or look at avilo's replay. That one is super shady as well. I mean some of the OP's stuff is kind of exaggerated, but there's plenty of extremely suspicious stuff in the replays he posted. There are so many unsafe or random moves that make no sense without info he shouldn't have. | ||
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Jinsho
United Kingdom3101 Posts
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Dodgin
Canada39254 Posts
On June 05 2012 10:31 ampson wrote: The star2 community is so goddamn toxic that it absolutely disgusts me. At the rate that we're going, every pro-gamer, caster, and community figure is going to have their image absolutely trashed by the time that we achieve "legitimacy." Can we PLEASE stop living for meaningless drama? Pro players potentially map hacking to win money from online tournaments is not " meaningless drama " ... | ||
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