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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.08:47 KST - Summary:Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) |
On June 05 2012 08:50 Heartscry wrote:
I have to be honest, this has become a bit of a witch-hunt. Spades seems to be very vociferous in his own defense, rather than simply hiding away or behind a quick ''no I didn't'' comment. Feel sorry for him, could erroneously ruin his pro-gamer career. If he did it, then fine - but there is certainly room for debate. A (at time of writing) 39 page thread has rather been his judge, jury and executioner here.
I haven't watched the replays, nor can I be bothered to, so I won't comment on what I think.
But this isn't a court of law. So I don't feel sorry for him. The public isn't doing anything necessarily wrong, you don't need evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to conclude that Spades is a hacker (if he is).
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I know its a little bit off topic but is there any way for TL to find out who "drolets" really is? Could then possible see if it is just someone who is trying to tarnish spades image.
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On June 05 2012 08:41 teamsolid wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 08:39 Defacer wrote:
Camera blocks aren't definitive. If someone can't provide ironclad proof that Spades hacks, or then I highly recommend they STFU.
I lol'd Nice logic there.
What I meant was just because a camera is stationary for a moment -- even 9 seconds -- doesn't automatically mean anything.
If you take your hands off a keyboard to answer your phone, or toggle between programs to change your music, I'm sure your camera will stay stationary for 9 seconds.
All I know is there is a shitload of people with anedoctal or circumstantial evidence ready to burn Spades at the stake. It's a little ridiculous.
Orb and Destiny's 'trangressions' at least had proof.
I can understand other pro's speculating. But seeing the TL Peanut Gallery chime in with their silliness?
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On June 05 2012 08:50 Zarahtra wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 08:41 Holytornados wrote:On June 05 2012 08:40 Noobity wrote:On June 05 2012 08:35 starcraft911 wrote:On June 05 2012 08:20 Wolfe87 wrote:
I wish you could make it mandatory for everyone who posts in this thread to watch the replays, so many people just jump on the bandwagon about everything. I watched the replays and I don't understand what the problems are. He went blind Raven? So what? I have seen that build in the GSL, are those players hacking? Oh he moved his army to there where Lucifron was gonna be. Give me a break. This witchunt seems to be clutching at straws. I have seen it said that Spades' answers have been vague well so has every single point brought up about the hacking.
So much nonsense in this thread and people just coming in(a couple of pros included) to just talk shit about Spades without even watching the replays, I mean seriously what the hell?
People need to watch the replays for themselves, weigh all the data in them, look at everything and make up THEIR OWN damn mind.
Personally I have watched all of the replays from Spades perspective and Lucifron's perspective at varying speeds and paid particular attention to the times stamped in the original post. I don't see anything suspicious and a lot of the actions that have been deemed "suspicious" have perfectly logical explanations. I'm not going to list every single one and give my thoughts on each(although i was going to.) This is getting taken way out of hand by some people and a lot here are taking the words of others at first glance and not doing any research or thinking for themselves.
Like I said Spades is not a hacker in my eyes and people need to chill the hell out. Try this out... I want you to make a game and without hotkeying any of your workers I want you to move your camera to the middle of the screen. Now without moving your camera or using control groups I want you to select a single scv. This is what happened and it's the product of using a camera freeze which is part of the map hack package. The proof has nothing to do with any of the choices that were made in the game. If you look specifically at the mechanics in the sc2 engine and view what's being broken you'll understand. If you're stuck on what units he made to counter what you'll never get it. Doesn't just hitting f1 do that? I think f1 also centers the camera on the worker too, doesn't it? So in the replay where Spades did it, would it not jump the camera to his SCV? Double clicking f1 centers it. And about avilo replay, I will agree that if I had that kind of contain, I'd not be throwing down mules but rather ready with a scan at all times, but spades does check if the tanks are moving forward quite regularly and then when avilo finally moves forward, spades actually blunders it.
Strange, I must have weird setting then. I hit f1 and it auto jumps to the nearest idle scv.
On June 05 2012 08:51 Daimai wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 08:41 Holytornados wrote:On June 05 2012 08:40 Noobity wrote:On June 05 2012 08:35 starcraft911 wrote:On June 05 2012 08:20 Wolfe87 wrote:
I wish you could make it mandatory for everyone who posts in this thread to watch the replays, so many people just jump on the bandwagon about everything. I watched the replays and I don't understand what the problems are. He went blind Raven? So what? I have seen that build in the GSL, are those players hacking? Oh he moved his army to there where Lucifron was gonna be. Give me a break. This witchunt seems to be clutching at straws. I have seen it said that Spades' answers have been vague well so has every single point brought up about the hacking.
So much nonsense in this thread and people just coming in(a couple of pros included) to just talk shit about Spades without even watching the replays, I mean seriously what the hell?
People need to watch the replays for themselves, weigh all the data in them, look at everything and make up THEIR OWN damn mind.
Personally I have watched all of the replays from Spades perspective and Lucifron's perspective at varying speeds and paid particular attention to the times stamped in the original post. I don't see anything suspicious and a lot of the actions that have been deemed "suspicious" have perfectly logical explanations. I'm not going to list every single one and give my thoughts on each(although i was going to.) This is getting taken way out of hand by some people and a lot here are taking the words of others at first glance and not doing any research or thinking for themselves.
Like I said Spades is not a hacker in my eyes and people need to chill the hell out. Try this out... I want you to make a game and without hotkeying any of your workers I want you to move your camera to the middle of the screen. Now without moving your camera or using control groups I want you to select a single scv. This is what happened and it's the product of using a camera freeze which is part of the map hack package. The proof has nothing to do with any of the choices that were made in the game. If you look specifically at the mechanics in the sc2 engine and view what's being broken you'll understand. If you're stuck on what units he made to counter what you'll never get it. Doesn't just hitting f1 do that? I think f1 also centers the camera on the worker too, doesn't it? So in the replay where Spades did it, would it not jump the camera to his SCV? No, tapping the key once just selects the workers, tapping it twice centers the camera on them. Source: Me pressing f1 and seeing what happens (with standard keybinds).
Yeah, I was mistaken. I guess my settings are weird.
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Regardless of whether Spades is a hacker and whether the replays generally confirm or disprove it, the OP put some seriously questionable "evidence" in his post. Pointing to the movement of an SCV to a watchtower w/o looking at the watchtower, as if there's no such thing as a minimap? lol how fucking stupid are you? The way the OP went about posting this on reddit is also extremely questionable. Clearly he targeted his posts to the respective audiences of TL and Reddit.
Would love to see a mod do an IP check on the OP and identify his main account. It's only fair that his identity should be exposed, given the manner in which he has gone about accusing Spades. Quote me if you agree.
User was warned for this post
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On June 05 2012 08:51 Daimai wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 08:41 Holytornados wrote:On June 05 2012 08:40 Noobity wrote:On June 05 2012 08:35 starcraft911 wrote:On June 05 2012 08:20 Wolfe87 wrote:
I wish you could make it mandatory for everyone who posts in this thread to watch the replays, so many people just jump on the bandwagon about everything. I watched the replays and I don't understand what the problems are. He went blind Raven? So what? I have seen that build in the GSL, are those players hacking? Oh he moved his army to there where Lucifron was gonna be. Give me a break. This witchunt seems to be clutching at straws. I have seen it said that Spades' answers have been vague well so has every single point brought up about the hacking.
So much nonsense in this thread and people just coming in(a couple of pros included) to just talk shit about Spades without even watching the replays, I mean seriously what the hell?
People need to watch the replays for themselves, weigh all the data in them, look at everything and make up THEIR OWN damn mind.
Personally I have watched all of the replays from Spades perspective and Lucifron's perspective at varying speeds and paid particular attention to the times stamped in the original post. I don't see anything suspicious and a lot of the actions that have been deemed "suspicious" have perfectly logical explanations. I'm not going to list every single one and give my thoughts on each(although i was going to.) This is getting taken way out of hand by some people and a lot here are taking the words of others at first glance and not doing any research or thinking for themselves.
Like I said Spades is not a hacker in my eyes and people need to chill the hell out. Try this out... I want you to make a game and without hotkeying any of your workers I want you to move your camera to the middle of the screen. Now without moving your camera or using control groups I want you to select a single scv. This is what happened and it's the product of using a camera freeze which is part of the map hack package. The proof has nothing to do with any of the choices that were made in the game. If you look specifically at the mechanics in the sc2 engine and view what's being broken you'll understand. If you're stuck on what units he made to counter what you'll never get it. Doesn't just hitting f1 do that? I think f1 also centers the camera on the worker too, doesn't it? So in the replay where Spades did it, would it not jump the camera to his SCV? No, tapping the key once just selects the workers, tapping it twice centers the camera on them. Source: Me pressing f1 and seeing what happens (with standard keybinds).
pressing f1 a single time most definitely centers the camera on your idle scv (only if the scv selected is not already in your field of view) 100% definitive
source: me pressing f1 all the friggin time because i am bad at shift-queuing...
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On June 05 2012 08:56 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 08:41 teamsolid wrote:On June 05 2012 08:39 Defacer wrote:
I don't know shit about hacking.
On June 05 2012 08:39 Defacer wrote:
Camera blocks aren't definitive. If someone can't provide ironclad proof that Spades hacks, or then I highly recommend they STFU.
I lol'd Nice logic there. What I meant was just because a camera is stationary for a moment -- even 9 seconds -- doesn't automatically mean anything. If you take your hands off a keyboard to answer your phone, or toggle between programs to change your music, I'm sure your camera will stay stationary for 9 seconds. All I know is there is a shitload of people with anedoctal or circumstantial evidence ready to burn Spades at the stake. It's a little ridiculous. Orb and Destiny's 'trangressions' at least had proof. I can understand other pro's speculating. But seeing the TL Peanut Gallery chime in with their silliness?
I'm sure hes opening other programs and answering the phone during a showmatch, you're just as bad as the rest of the "TL Peanut Gallery".
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I'm pretty much positive from reading and looking at all the evidence that spades was not hacking. I feel very bad for him now.
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On June 05 2012 08:56 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 08:41 teamsolid wrote:On June 05 2012 08:39 Defacer wrote:
I don't know shit about hacking.
On June 05 2012 08:39 Defacer wrote:
Camera blocks aren't definitive. If someone can't provide ironclad proof that Spades hacks, or then I highly recommend they STFU.
I lol'd Nice logic there. What I meant was just because a camera is stationary for a moment -- even 9 seconds -- doesn't automatically mean anything. If you take your hands off a keyboard to answer your phone, or toggle between programs to change your music, I'm sure your camera will stay stationary for 9 seconds. All I know is there is a shitload of people with anedoctal or circumstantial evidence ready to burn Spades at the stake. It's a little ridiculous. Orb and Destiny's 'trangressions' at least had proof. I can understand other pro's speculating. But seeing the TL Peanut Gallery chime in with their silliness?
Considering courts of law allow for circumstantial evidence, and the burden of proof in a non-criminal case is not that high, it's more than acceptable to use it. I highly doubt Spades would be checking his phone on multiple occasions in the middle of a starcraft match, much less one with monetary value and one being streamed.
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On June 05 2012 08:53 Ovi wrote:
Question to all you who have seen the replays.
Is it true that he at no occasion during these 7 games holds his camera over a fog of war area? And that his camera at several times locks up at the edge of where the fog of war starts on the screen (in addition to all the other lock ups)?
Since the hack apparantly results in just this, this would be the one main thing thats fishy to me. But then again, a player could obviously play many games in a row without ever looking at a fog of war area despite how crazy that seems to me. But i guess certain players can have certain weird playstyles.
Like someone earlier suggested in the thread i think a wise thing for Spades to do would be to just select as many of his recent replays as possible and rar them and put it out there. If there is no consistant suspicious play showing up in these replays that is absolutely something that would be in his favour. But then obviously he would need to show (and proove) that these werent sharrypicked replays and that it indeed is a complete list of all his recent games during the last month or so.
It is not true that he at no occasion during these 7 games holds his camera over a fog of war area.
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On June 05 2012 08:54 Holytornados wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 08:47 Treva wrote:On June 05 2012 08:34 Holytornados wrote:On June 05 2012 08:29 sekalf wrote:On June 05 2012 08:26 shabinka wrote:
Better question: why does he have to stare at other places on the map for 10+ seconds at a time? If it is a camera lock and he is you know using a map hack, wouldn't he just have to glance around the map quickly. He has high apm and doesn't need to stare at things to know exactly whats going on. A quick glimpse in his base would be more than enough to put him leagues ahead of his opponent. Maybe he is scratching his ass or something? Or eating a banana? Having the screen still for 10 seconds prove absolutely nothing. Spades said earlier in his response that he was performing other actions while the screen was locked (macroing). If he were at the computer why would he randomly decide to let the screen sit still? There are a lot of reasons. A popular one is if I'm texting and I need to keep quick with my responses so I'll look down at my phone for 15 or so seconds while texting a response and then start playing again. I'm not going to pause the game every minute or so so I can text. He also said he has 2 monitors, he could of alt-tabbed out to do w/e. A few days ago someone called me on Skype during a game, I hit accept by mistake and I had to alt-tab out for about 10-15 seconds to get out of the call and then close Skype. I could go on but you get the point. I'm not saying Spades is innocent or guilty in my eyes since I haven't watched the reps but you don't know if someone was there distracting him or if he had to alt-tab out for some reason. Not to mention a lot of those situations are pretty easy to forget, like if someone told me why my camera stood still for 9 seconds during this part in a game I probably wouldn't be able to say exactly why since it would of been for a reason that wasn't really memorable, like tabbing out to close a program or texting someone back. I'm not claiming guilty/innocent either, but it was a showmatch with something on the line. I wouldn't be so easily distracted if I were in his position. That may just be me though.
No I agree with you. I guess I should of made it more clear that I didn't think my first post would apply to Spades but it was really a reply to the "Why would a player randomly stop playing." comment. I agree that doing that during a show match against a good player wouldn't be advisable but I wouldn't say it would be impossible. I mean we could play the what if game forever.
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On June 05 2012 08:58 Riff- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 08:51 Daimai wrote:On June 05 2012 08:41 Holytornados wrote:On June 05 2012 08:40 Noobity wrote:On June 05 2012 08:35 starcraft911 wrote:On June 05 2012 08:20 Wolfe87 wrote:
I wish you could make it mandatory for everyone who posts in this thread to watch the replays, so many people just jump on the bandwagon about everything. I watched the replays and I don't understand what the problems are. He went blind Raven? So what? I have seen that build in the GSL, are those players hacking? Oh he moved his army to there where Lucifron was gonna be. Give me a break. This witchunt seems to be clutching at straws. I have seen it said that Spades' answers have been vague well so has every single point brought up about the hacking.
So much nonsense in this thread and people just coming in(a couple of pros included) to just talk shit about Spades without even watching the replays, I mean seriously what the hell?
People need to watch the replays for themselves, weigh all the data in them, look at everything and make up THEIR OWN damn mind.
Personally I have watched all of the replays from Spades perspective and Lucifron's perspective at varying speeds and paid particular attention to the times stamped in the original post. I don't see anything suspicious and a lot of the actions that have been deemed "suspicious" have perfectly logical explanations. I'm not going to list every single one and give my thoughts on each(although i was going to.) This is getting taken way out of hand by some people and a lot here are taking the words of others at first glance and not doing any research or thinking for themselves.
Like I said Spades is not a hacker in my eyes and people need to chill the hell out. Try this out... I want you to make a game and without hotkeying any of your workers I want you to move your camera to the middle of the screen. Now without moving your camera or using control groups I want you to select a single scv. This is what happened and it's the product of using a camera freeze which is part of the map hack package. The proof has nothing to do with any of the choices that were made in the game. If you look specifically at the mechanics in the sc2 engine and view what's being broken you'll understand. If you're stuck on what units he made to counter what you'll never get it. Doesn't just hitting f1 do that? I think f1 also centers the camera on the worker too, doesn't it? So in the replay where Spades did it, would it not jump the camera to his SCV? No, tapping the key once just selects the workers, tapping it twice centers the camera on them. Source: Me pressing f1 and seeing what happens (with standard keybinds). pressing f1 a single time most definitely centers the camera on your idle scv (only if the scv selected is not already in your field of view) 100% definitive source: me pressing f1 all the friggin time because i am bad at shift-queuing...
You must be pressing the key twice or have some setting changed, since the first F1 click should only select the keys while the second press will center the key.
source: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Hotkeys
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On June 05 2012 08:57 Holytornados wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 08:50 Zarahtra wrote:On June 05 2012 08:41 Holytornados wrote:On June 05 2012 08:40 Noobity wrote:On June 05 2012 08:35 starcraft911 wrote:On June 05 2012 08:20 Wolfe87 wrote:
I wish you could make it mandatory for everyone who posts in this thread to watch the replays, so many people just jump on the bandwagon about everything. I watched the replays and I don't understand what the problems are. He went blind Raven? So what? I have seen that build in the GSL, are those players hacking? Oh he moved his army to there where Lucifron was gonna be. Give me a break. This witchunt seems to be clutching at straws. I have seen it said that Spades' answers have been vague well so has every single point brought up about the hacking.
So much nonsense in this thread and people just coming in(a couple of pros included) to just talk shit about Spades without even watching the replays, I mean seriously what the hell?
People need to watch the replays for themselves, weigh all the data in them, look at everything and make up THEIR OWN damn mind.
Personally I have watched all of the replays from Spades perspective and Lucifron's perspective at varying speeds and paid particular attention to the times stamped in the original post. I don't see anything suspicious and a lot of the actions that have been deemed "suspicious" have perfectly logical explanations. I'm not going to list every single one and give my thoughts on each(although i was going to.) This is getting taken way out of hand by some people and a lot here are taking the words of others at first glance and not doing any research or thinking for themselves.
Like I said Spades is not a hacker in my eyes and people need to chill the hell out. Try this out... I want you to make a game and without hotkeying any of your workers I want you to move your camera to the middle of the screen. Now without moving your camera or using control groups I want you to select a single scv. This is what happened and it's the product of using a camera freeze which is part of the map hack package. The proof has nothing to do with any of the choices that were made in the game. If you look specifically at the mechanics in the sc2 engine and view what's being broken you'll understand. If you're stuck on what units he made to counter what you'll never get it. Doesn't just hitting f1 do that? I think f1 also centers the camera on the worker too, doesn't it? So in the replay where Spades did it, would it not jump the camera to his SCV? Double clicking f1 centers it. And about avilo replay, I will agree that if I had that kind of contain, I'd not be throwing down mules but rather ready with a scan at all times, but spades does check if the tanks are moving forward quite regularly and then when avilo finally moves forward, spades actually blunders it. Strange, I must have weird setting then. I hit f1 and it auto jumps to the nearest idle scv. Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 08:51 Daimai wrote:On June 05 2012 08:41 Holytornados wrote:On June 05 2012 08:40 Noobity wrote:On June 05 2012 08:35 starcraft911 wrote:On June 05 2012 08:20 Wolfe87 wrote:
I wish you could make it mandatory for everyone who posts in this thread to watch the replays, so many people just jump on the bandwagon about everything. I watched the replays and I don't understand what the problems are. He went blind Raven? So what? I have seen that build in the GSL, are those players hacking? Oh he moved his army to there where Lucifron was gonna be. Give me a break. This witchunt seems to be clutching at straws. I have seen it said that Spades' answers have been vague well so has every single point brought up about the hacking.
So much nonsense in this thread and people just coming in(a couple of pros included) to just talk shit about Spades without even watching the replays, I mean seriously what the hell?
People need to watch the replays for themselves, weigh all the data in them, look at everything and make up THEIR OWN damn mind.
Personally I have watched all of the replays from Spades perspective and Lucifron's perspective at varying speeds and paid particular attention to the times stamped in the original post. I don't see anything suspicious and a lot of the actions that have been deemed "suspicious" have perfectly logical explanations. I'm not going to list every single one and give my thoughts on each(although i was going to.) This is getting taken way out of hand by some people and a lot here are taking the words of others at first glance and not doing any research or thinking for themselves.
Like I said Spades is not a hacker in my eyes and people need to chill the hell out. Try this out... I want you to make a game and without hotkeying any of your workers I want you to move your camera to the middle of the screen. Now without moving your camera or using control groups I want you to select a single scv. This is what happened and it's the product of using a camera freeze which is part of the map hack package. The proof has nothing to do with any of the choices that were made in the game. If you look specifically at the mechanics in the sc2 engine and view what's being broken you'll understand. If you're stuck on what units he made to counter what you'll never get it. Doesn't just hitting f1 do that? I think f1 also centers the camera on the worker too, doesn't it? So in the replay where Spades did it, would it not jump the camera to his SCV? No, tapping the key once just selects the workers, tapping it twice centers the camera on them. Source: Me pressing f1 and seeing what happens (with standard keybinds). Yeah, I was mistaken. I guess my settings are weird.
nah man, you have standard settings. f1 jumps to idle scv if he is off camera
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On June 05 2012 08:57 Doodsmack wrote:
Regardless of whether Spades is a hacker and whether the replays generally confirm or disprove it, the OP put some seriously questionable "evidence" in his post. Pointing to the movement of an SCV to a watchtower w/o looking at the watchtower, as if there's no such thing as a minimap? lol how fucking stupid are you? The way the OP went about posting this on reddit is also extremely questionable. Clearly he targeted his posts to the respective audiences of TL and Reddit.
Would love to see a mod do an IP check on the OP and identify his main account. It's only fair that his identity should be exposed, given the manner in which he has gone about accusing Spades. Quote me if you agree.
I don't see what the OP's identity have to do with anything regarding this case. On another note, I will be looking at the replays since this thread managed to catch my attention. I haven't read anything about the timings the OP wrote, so i'll make my own list...
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On June 05 2012 09:01 Imbu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 08:58 Riff- wrote:On June 05 2012 08:51 Daimai wrote:On June 05 2012 08:41 Holytornados wrote:On June 05 2012 08:40 Noobity wrote:On June 05 2012 08:35 starcraft911 wrote:On June 05 2012 08:20 Wolfe87 wrote:
I wish you could make it mandatory for everyone who posts in this thread to watch the replays, so many people just jump on the bandwagon about everything. I watched the replays and I don't understand what the problems are. He went blind Raven? So what? I have seen that build in the GSL, are those players hacking? Oh he moved his army to there where Lucifron was gonna be. Give me a break. This witchunt seems to be clutching at straws. I have seen it said that Spades' answers have been vague well so has every single point brought up about the hacking.
So much nonsense in this thread and people just coming in(a couple of pros included) to just talk shit about Spades without even watching the replays, I mean seriously what the hell?
People need to watch the replays for themselves, weigh all the data in them, look at everything and make up THEIR OWN damn mind.
Personally I have watched all of the replays from Spades perspective and Lucifron's perspective at varying speeds and paid particular attention to the times stamped in the original post. I don't see anything suspicious and a lot of the actions that have been deemed "suspicious" have perfectly logical explanations. I'm not going to list every single one and give my thoughts on each(although i was going to.) This is getting taken way out of hand by some people and a lot here are taking the words of others at first glance and not doing any research or thinking for themselves.
Like I said Spades is not a hacker in my eyes and people need to chill the hell out. Try this out... I want you to make a game and without hotkeying any of your workers I want you to move your camera to the middle of the screen. Now without moving your camera or using control groups I want you to select a single scv. This is what happened and it's the product of using a camera freeze which is part of the map hack package. The proof has nothing to do with any of the choices that were made in the game. If you look specifically at the mechanics in the sc2 engine and view what's being broken you'll understand. If you're stuck on what units he made to counter what you'll never get it. Doesn't just hitting f1 do that? I think f1 also centers the camera on the worker too, doesn't it? So in the replay where Spades did it, would it not jump the camera to his SCV? No, tapping the key once just selects the workers, tapping it twice centers the camera on them. Source: Me pressing f1 and seeing what happens (with standard keybinds). pressing f1 a single time most definitely centers the camera on your idle scv (only if the scv selected is not already in your field of view) 100% definitive source: me pressing f1 all the friggin time because i am bad at shift-queuing... You must be pressing the key twice or have some setting changed, since the first F1 click should only select the keys while the second press will center the key. source: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Hotkeys
trust me, im using standard settings! make sure your idle scv(s) are OUT of your field of view at the time of pressing.
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On June 05 2012 08:52 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 08:50 hifriend wrote:On June 05 2012 08:45 starcraft911 wrote:On June 05 2012 08:36 oxxo wrote:On June 05 2012 08:34 Holytornados wrote:On June 05 2012 08:29 sekalf wrote:On June 05 2012 08:26 shabinka wrote:
Better question: why does he have to stare at other places on the map for 10+ seconds at a time? If it is a camera lock and he is you know using a map hack, wouldn't he just have to glance around the map quickly. He has high apm and doesn't need to stare at things to know exactly whats going on. A quick glimpse in his base would be more than enough to put him leagues ahead of his opponent. Maybe he is scratching his ass or something? Or eating a banana? Having the screen still for 10 seconds prove absolutely nothing. Spades said earlier in his response that he was performing other actions while the screen was locked (macroing). If he were at the computer why would he randomly decide to let the screen sit still? He should explain how in Antiga at 9:11 he sits his screen for almost 10 seconds while 'macroing' and lets 4 SCVs go in gas (while on screen) AND gets supply blocked. There is no explanation other than the truth. He's a maphacker. I've been around the RTS scene from the conception of replays and it's always the same story. He's going to deny everything and deflect as if he's a victim. He's going to focus on things such as 'fog', "well i always look at fog before i scan..." as if that actually matters, but the actions that are controllable by ANY player such as looking at fog doesn't prove anything. Spades will NEVER address how he selects units that are NOT hotkeyed while he stares blindly at the middle of the screen because there is no explanation other than he's hacking. Plain and simple. I think once Spades realizes that he's been caught and mans up this will all blow over, but there's no better proof of maphack than what's laid before us. When does he do that? What map and exactly when? The SCV on metal (mentioned in the op) is hotkeyed.. Antiga 9:11?
I meant this:
"Spades will NEVER address how he selects units that are NOT hotkeyed while he stares blindly at the middle of the screen because there is no explanation other than he's hacking. Plain and simple."
when does that happen?
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I would like to comment on this topic.
I have slightly suspected Spades of hacking since early March or so. I was contacted to organize a thread for a showmatch between Spades and lastshadow and I believe it was lastshadow who mentioned to me that Spades possibly had a suspiciously good ladder record relative to what he had in the past, and what his tournament results would indicate. At the time I believe Spades was top 16 NA Grandmasters with over 60% winrate. which was definitely a better record than he ever really had in the past from his pre korea days or even late 2011. After this conversation (if spades actually does hack now, ls is pretty genius lol) I remember that being the first seed of suspicion being planted for me. I started looking into a few replays I could find but didn't note anything really interesting or definitive and I hadn't run into him on ladder in quite a while so I didn't really have any personal material to go off of. I ended up never really taking that much time or found anything definitive I could go public with or anything. I really honestly believed Spades didn't hack. He has been going to tons of live events posting modest results, nothing really amazing but to post amazing results at any major lan event is a pretty ridiculous accomplishment. Plus Spades had already been caught hacking in broodwar and seemed to be taking sc2 pretty seriously as far as career endeavors go so I really believed he wouldn't dare risk hacking again.
After that I pretty much didn't try to research anything further but I did start to note Spades results in tournaments and on streams or lan events where he couldn't hack or would be caught. His results were nothing that special but like I said posting great results at big events is super hard so it didn't really add much suspicion. I did note a slight discrepancy with having such a solid ladder record vs who he was losing to at events though. I don't have all his results handy but I know at least he was at MLG Columbus and IPL4 (two tournaments during the times of suspicion for me). Typically players with really solid ladder records do decently in open bracket play against unknown or lesser known opponents. but may struggle against the very top players in bo3/bo5. This is just a general trend I notice when it's mid tier pro vs mid tier pro in open bracket play. A more well rounded ladder player will be better off in that sort of setting than a player who is better with time to prepare for a match.
anyway I'm sort of rambling now and while I haven't had a chance to watch the replays so I can't personally accuse or anything I just wanted to share some of my thoughts to hopefully help bring some clarity to the situation.
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A 10 second stop on a guy who, in that rep against specialist, had almost 300apm? Really?
Yeah, so every game he has over 250 apm, and he pauses THAT hard in these games? At that APM, production cycles take like max 2 seconds... I play at 160-190 apm, and my production cycles aren't that long.
Odd, to say the least.
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I think its too much of a witch hunt, they should have privately got the people involved together and sorted it, send the evidence to the correct people in charge to get him banned from TL + the people who set up the show match. Posting it here and on reddit will wreck his reputation if it turns out he didn't.
As for me I don't care if he maphacked or not, its just sad that it went like this.
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On June 05 2012 09:01 JOJOsc2news wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 08:53 Ovi wrote:
Question to all you who have seen the replays.
Is it true that he at no occasion during these 7 games holds his camera over a fog of war area? And that his camera at several times locks up at the edge of where the fog of war starts on the screen (in addition to all the other lock ups)?
Since the hack apparantly results in just this, this would be the one main thing thats fishy to me. But then again, a player could obviously play many games in a row without ever looking at a fog of war area despite how crazy that seems to me. But i guess certain players can have certain weird playstyles.
Like someone earlier suggested in the thread i think a wise thing for Spades to do would be to just select as many of his recent replays as possible and rar them and put it out there. If there is no consistant suspicious play showing up in these replays that is absolutely something that would be in his favour. But then obviously he would need to show (and proove) that these werent sharrypicked replays and that it indeed is a complete list of all his recent games during the last month or so. It is not true that he at no occasion during these 7 games holds his camera over a fog of war area.
It must be said as well that he wouldn't be so fucking dumb to keep this hack always on.
The deal with the hellions on TDA made me wonder. I hope a pro player on itg or sotg dares to watch these replays and give his opinion. Avilo made a good post though. That shit was strange.
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EPT
