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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.08:47 KST - Summary:Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) |
On June 05 2012 08:48 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 08:37 avilo wrote:I actually have accused spades b4 of hacking / called him out on it during a game I played on my stream before. He was former teammate so I gave him benefit of the doubt, but it seemed painfully obvious that he was gaining extraordinary perception in this game from ladder: http://www.gamereplays.org/starcraft2/replays.php?game=33&show=details&id=264521A few things make it painfully obvious. First off, he's doing an exact mirror build off of zero scouting which is incredibly rare to happen. But that's not where the lulz come. I then end up getting contained, but I decided to purposely "bait" him a couple times and see how he reacts during this contain to verify if he's hacking or not. Every high level TvTer can verify how questionable and suspicious the decisions are from 13:00 min in this game during the contain. First, note the perfect placement of his tanks just outside of the range of my already pre-sieged tanks...could be luck, but suspicious to start. Next, I purposely make a viking flower as if I am going to leap frog tanks to gain vision over his tanks. Spades has zero vikings. 13:23, he looks where my tanks are, send a marine forward, standard to confirm, but he has no scans, and he doesn't seem to be afraid at all of my tanks moving forward at all... 13:30 he gets energy to scan now, that every high level TvT would save if they want to keep this contain up, otherwise they may just retreat without vikings for vision. 13:34 HE MULES, still not saving scans...leaving every tank sieged still, while knowing that I have the viking advantage for vision, notice my tanks have not moved an inch and he is not worrying about his tanks at all even though he knows he has no way to get vision...WTF? 13:41 This is where my detective work comes in. I make a viking flower pretending that i am about to leap frog my tanks forward. But I leave all my tanks purposely sieged in the same spot. He obviously is looking through the fog of war and sees that I have not moved them, every good player here throws up a scan, but he knows they are in the same exact position as before, so he does not move his tanks away, and he used the mule. He does walk a marine forward though. 13:50 He has a scan available now. 14:09 Another marine moves forward 14:30 Notice this is the first time that I unsiege any tanks near the contain, and what I plan next is to purposely feint a leapfrog forward and then insta-move back to see if he insta-scans. Keep in mind, every single instance before this that I have viking flowered as if leapfrogging forward, he has never reacted at all, no scan. 14:36 I make the final "bait" move here and I purposely do not viking flower to see how he reacts. The instant I move the tanks forward he insta-moves his screen to that location, insta-scans, and I did not siege because, like I said, I was already suspicious at that point and was curious how he would react. Incredibly suspicious imo...some would say incredibly obvious as well. I was streaming at the time, and even more curious was spades was immediately on my stream out of no where to immediately defend himself...-_- Wow Avilo, nice work! Being so clever even in the heat of a match ^^. Well done. From the summary you've given, it seems very very suspicious.
this best way to catch a hacker is to throw the game doing stupid stuff that would be able to prove he hacks or what avilo did works too.
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On June 05 2012 08:41 Holytornados wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 08:40 Noobity wrote:On June 05 2012 08:35 starcraft911 wrote:On June 05 2012 08:20 Wolfe87 wrote:
I wish you could make it mandatory for everyone who posts in this thread to watch the replays, so many people just jump on the bandwagon about everything. I watched the replays and I don't understand what the problems are. He went blind Raven? So what? I have seen that build in the GSL, are those players hacking? Oh he moved his army to there where Lucifron was gonna be. Give me a break. This witchunt seems to be clutching at straws. I have seen it said that Spades' answers have been vague well so has every single point brought up about the hacking.
So much nonsense in this thread and people just coming in(a couple of pros included) to just talk shit about Spades without even watching the replays, I mean seriously what the hell?
People need to watch the replays for themselves, weigh all the data in them, look at everything and make up THEIR OWN damn mind.
Personally I have watched all of the replays from Spades perspective and Lucifron's perspective at varying speeds and paid particular attention to the times stamped in the original post. I don't see anything suspicious and a lot of the actions that have been deemed "suspicious" have perfectly logical explanations. I'm not going to list every single one and give my thoughts on each(although i was going to.) This is getting taken way out of hand by some people and a lot here are taking the words of others at first glance and not doing any research or thinking for themselves.
Like I said Spades is not a hacker in my eyes and people need to chill the hell out. Try this out... I want you to make a game and without hotkeying any of your workers I want you to move your camera to the middle of the screen. Now without moving your camera or using control groups I want you to select a single scv. This is what happened and it's the product of using a camera freeze which is part of the map hack package. The proof has nothing to do with any of the choices that were made in the game. If you look specifically at the mechanics in the sc2 engine and view what's being broken you'll understand. If you're stuck on what units he made to counter what you'll never get it. Doesn't just hitting f1 do that? I think f1 also centers the camera on the worker too, doesn't it? So in the replay where Spades did it, would it not jump the camera to his SCV?
Double clicking f1 centers it.
And about avilo replay, I will agree that if I had that kind of contain, I'd not be throwing down mules but rather ready with a scan at all times, but spades does check if the tanks are moving forward quite regularly and then when avilo finally moves forward, spades actually blunders it.
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On June 05 2012 08:45 starcraft911 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 08:36 oxxo wrote:On June 05 2012 08:34 Holytornados wrote:On June 05 2012 08:29 sekalf wrote:On June 05 2012 08:26 shabinka wrote:
Better question: why does he have to stare at other places on the map for 10+ seconds at a time? If it is a camera lock and he is you know using a map hack, wouldn't he just have to glance around the map quickly. He has high apm and doesn't need to stare at things to know exactly whats going on. A quick glimpse in his base would be more than enough to put him leagues ahead of his opponent. Maybe he is scratching his ass or something? Or eating a banana? Having the screen still for 10 seconds prove absolutely nothing. Spades said earlier in his response that he was performing other actions while the screen was locked (macroing). If he were at the computer why would he randomly decide to let the screen sit still? He should explain how in Antiga at 9:11 he sits his screen for almost 10 seconds while 'macroing' and lets 4 SCVs go in gas (while on screen) AND gets supply blocked. There is no explanation other than the truth. He's a maphacker. I've been around the RTS scene from the conception of replays and it's always the same story. He's going to deny everything and deflect as if he's a victim. He's going to focus on things such as 'fog', "well i always look at fog before i scan..." as if that actually matters, but the actions that are controllable by ANY player such as looking at fog doesn't prove anything. Spades will NEVER address how he selects units that are NOT hotkeyed while he stares blindly at the middle of the screen because there is no explanation other than he's hacking. Plain and simple. I think once Spades realizes that he's been caught and mans up this will all blow over, but there's no better proof of maphack than what's laid before us.
When does he do that? What map and exactly when? The SCV on metal (mentioned in the op) is hotkeyed..
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On June 05 2012 08:37 Denzil wrote:
This community is fucking ridiculous, why are we discussing if Nerchio is a maphacker or not? Unless someone can pull up at least 5 replays of suspicious activity please stick to the topic of viewing Spades' replays and looking at the points mentioned in the OP
Nerchio made a mistake to post in this thread. He had his reasons but he came to the wrong conclusion when considering the resulting reaction. In threads like this pro-gamers are walking on razor wire and if you're not psychologically competent please don't post, for your own sake.
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On June 05 2012 08:41 Holytornados wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 08:40 Noobity wrote:On June 05 2012 08:35 starcraft911 wrote:On June 05 2012 08:20 Wolfe87 wrote:
I wish you could make it mandatory for everyone who posts in this thread to watch the replays, so many people just jump on the bandwagon about everything. I watched the replays and I don't understand what the problems are. He went blind Raven? So what? I have seen that build in the GSL, are those players hacking? Oh he moved his army to there where Lucifron was gonna be. Give me a break. This witchunt seems to be clutching at straws. I have seen it said that Spades' answers have been vague well so has every single point brought up about the hacking.
So much nonsense in this thread and people just coming in(a couple of pros included) to just talk shit about Spades without even watching the replays, I mean seriously what the hell?
People need to watch the replays for themselves, weigh all the data in them, look at everything and make up THEIR OWN damn mind.
Personally I have watched all of the replays from Spades perspective and Lucifron's perspective at varying speeds and paid particular attention to the times stamped in the original post. I don't see anything suspicious and a lot of the actions that have been deemed "suspicious" have perfectly logical explanations. I'm not going to list every single one and give my thoughts on each(although i was going to.) This is getting taken way out of hand by some people and a lot here are taking the words of others at first glance and not doing any research or thinking for themselves.
Like I said Spades is not a hacker in my eyes and people need to chill the hell out. Try this out... I want you to make a game and without hotkeying any of your workers I want you to move your camera to the middle of the screen. Now without moving your camera or using control groups I want you to select a single scv. This is what happened and it's the product of using a camera freeze which is part of the map hack package. The proof has nothing to do with any of the choices that were made in the game. If you look specifically at the mechanics in the sc2 engine and view what's being broken you'll understand. If you're stuck on what units he made to counter what you'll never get it. Doesn't just hitting f1 do that? I think f1 also centers the camera on the worker too, doesn't it? So in the replay where Spades did it, would it not jump the camera to his SCV?
No, tapping the key once just selects the workers, tapping it twice centers the camera on them.
Source: Me pressing f1 and seeing what happens (with standard keybinds).
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On June 05 2012 08:49 starcraft911 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 08:47 sekalf wrote:On June 05 2012 08:45 starcraft911 wrote:On June 05 2012 08:36 oxxo wrote:On June 05 2012 08:34 Holytornados wrote:On June 05 2012 08:29 sekalf wrote:On June 05 2012 08:26 shabinka wrote:
Better question: why does he have to stare at other places on the map for 10+ seconds at a time? If it is a camera lock and he is you know using a map hack, wouldn't he just have to glance around the map quickly. He has high apm and doesn't need to stare at things to know exactly whats going on. A quick glimpse in his base would be more than enough to put him leagues ahead of his opponent. Maybe he is scratching his ass or something? Or eating a banana? Having the screen still for 10 seconds prove absolutely nothing. Spades said earlier in his response that he was performing other actions while the screen was locked (macroing). If he were at the computer why would he randomly decide to let the screen sit still? He should explain how in Antiga at 9:11 he sits his screen for almost 10 seconds while 'macroing' and lets 4 SCVs go in gas (while on screen) AND gets supply blocked. There is no explanation other than the truth. He's a maphacker. I've been around the RTS scene from the conception of replays and it's always the same story. He's going to deny everything and deflect as if he's a victim. He's going to focus on things such as 'fog', "well i always look at fog before i scan..." as if that actually matters, but the actions that are controllable by ANY player such as looking at fog doesn't prove anything. Spades will NEVER address how he selects units that are NOT hotkeyed while he stares blindly at the middle of the screen because there is no explanation other than he's hacking. Plain and simple. I think once Spades realizes that he's been caught and mans up this will all blow over, but there's no better proof of maphack than what's laid before us. You still havent said in what game and at what time stamp he does this impossible thing with the scv? It's in the OP... did you read the OP? Did you even watch the replay? Why are you posting in this thread if you're this clueless. The OP lined it out pretty much perfect. Everything is time stamped. Are you for real?
Are you talking about
"Game 4: Metalopolis
2:50 He selects his SCV and make it go back to his base, however, his camera is blocked on his barracks for about 5 seconds."
His scv is clearly hotkeyed.
Are YOU for real?
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On June 05 2012 08:47 Treva wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 08:34 Holytornados wrote:On June 05 2012 08:29 sekalf wrote:On June 05 2012 08:26 shabinka wrote:
Better question: why does he have to stare at other places on the map for 10+ seconds at a time? If it is a camera lock and he is you know using a map hack, wouldn't he just have to glance around the map quickly. He has high apm and doesn't need to stare at things to know exactly whats going on. A quick glimpse in his base would be more than enough to put him leagues ahead of his opponent. Maybe he is scratching his ass or something? Or eating a banana? Having the screen still for 10 seconds prove absolutely nothing. Spades said earlier in his response that he was performing other actions while the screen was locked (macroing). If he were at the computer why would he randomly decide to let the screen sit still? There are a lot of reasons. A popular one is if I'm texting and I need to keep quick with my responses so I'll look down at my phone for 15 or so seconds while texting a response and then start playing again. I'm not going to pause the game every minute or so so I can text. He also said he has 2 monitors, he could of alt-tabbed out to do w/e. A few days ago someone called me on Skype during a game, I hit accept by mistake and I had to alt-tab out for about 10-15 seconds to get out of the call and then close Skype. I could go on but you get the point. I'm not saying Spades is innocent or guilty in my eyes since I haven't watched the reps but you don't know if someone was there distracting him or if he had to alt-tab out for some reason. Not to mention a lot of those situations are pretty easy to forget, like if someone told me why my camera stood still for 9 seconds during this part in a game I probably wouldn't be able to say exactly why since it would of been for a reason that wasn't really memorable, like tabbing out to close a program or texting someone back.
You're seriously saying a player would tab out or text in the middle of a game without pausing? you've got to be kidding me.
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On June 05 2012 08:41 Holytornados wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 08:40 Noobity wrote:On June 05 2012 08:35 starcraft911 wrote:On June 05 2012 08:20 Wolfe87 wrote:
I wish you could make it mandatory for everyone who posts in this thread to watch the replays, so many people just jump on the bandwagon about everything. I watched the replays and I don't understand what the problems are. He went blind Raven? So what? I have seen that build in the GSL, are those players hacking? Oh he moved his army to there where Lucifron was gonna be. Give me a break. This witchunt seems to be clutching at straws. I have seen it said that Spades' answers have been vague well so has every single point brought up about the hacking.
So much nonsense in this thread and people just coming in(a couple of pros included) to just talk shit about Spades without even watching the replays, I mean seriously what the hell?
People need to watch the replays for themselves, weigh all the data in them, look at everything and make up THEIR OWN damn mind.
Personally I have watched all of the replays from Spades perspective and Lucifron's perspective at varying speeds and paid particular attention to the times stamped in the original post. I don't see anything suspicious and a lot of the actions that have been deemed "suspicious" have perfectly logical explanations. I'm not going to list every single one and give my thoughts on each(although i was going to.) This is getting taken way out of hand by some people and a lot here are taking the words of others at first glance and not doing any research or thinking for themselves.
Like I said Spades is not a hacker in my eyes and people need to chill the hell out. Try this out... I want you to make a game and without hotkeying any of your workers I want you to move your camera to the middle of the screen. Now without moving your camera or using control groups I want you to select a single scv. This is what happened and it's the product of using a camera freeze which is part of the map hack package. The proof has nothing to do with any of the choices that were made in the game. If you look specifically at the mechanics in the sc2 engine and view what's being broken you'll understand. If you're stuck on what units he made to counter what you'll never get it. Doesn't just hitting f1 do that? I think f1 also centers the camera on the worker too, doesn't it? So in the replay where Spades did it, would it not jump the camera to his SCV?
Good point. I just tested this to see if it's possible to select an idle worker and not move your screen, it is, but it involves hitting f1 at the same time as a camera hotkey, since the camera hotkey doesn't change your selection.
http://drop.sc/191540
Go to about 45 seconds is where I get it to work. I'm not at all saying this is what happened, but certainly something that shows it's conceivable.
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On June 05 2012 08:50 hifriend wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 08:45 starcraft911 wrote:On June 05 2012 08:36 oxxo wrote:On June 05 2012 08:34 Holytornados wrote:On June 05 2012 08:29 sekalf wrote:On June 05 2012 08:26 shabinka wrote:
Better question: why does he have to stare at other places on the map for 10+ seconds at a time? If it is a camera lock and he is you know using a map hack, wouldn't he just have to glance around the map quickly. He has high apm and doesn't need to stare at things to know exactly whats going on. A quick glimpse in his base would be more than enough to put him leagues ahead of his opponent. Maybe he is scratching his ass or something? Or eating a banana? Having the screen still for 10 seconds prove absolutely nothing. Spades said earlier in his response that he was performing other actions while the screen was locked (macroing). If he were at the computer why would he randomly decide to let the screen sit still? He should explain how in Antiga at 9:11 he sits his screen for almost 10 seconds while 'macroing' and lets 4 SCVs go in gas (while on screen) AND gets supply blocked. There is no explanation other than the truth. He's a maphacker. I've been around the RTS scene from the conception of replays and it's always the same story. He's going to deny everything and deflect as if he's a victim. He's going to focus on things such as 'fog', "well i always look at fog before i scan..." as if that actually matters, but the actions that are controllable by ANY player such as looking at fog doesn't prove anything. Spades will NEVER address how he selects units that are NOT hotkeyed while he stares blindly at the middle of the screen because there is no explanation other than he's hacking. Plain and simple. I think once Spades realizes that he's been caught and mans up this will all blow over, but there's no better proof of maphack than what's laid before us. When does he do that? What map and exactly when? The SCV on metal (mentioned in the op) is hotkeyed..
Antiga 9:11?
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I understand I will probably be banned following this post or it may be deleted, however, this is definitive proof that Spades could not have possibly been hacking during this series. I cannot speak for other games that he's played, however, there are multiple features and functions within a legitimate SCII hack that would prevent MANY of the occurences and mistakes that Spades made during those games from happening. Obviously you cannot scout or prevent every attack, or blind counter every unit comp; however, there were crucial and vital engagements and attacks during these games that would have been easily prevented by even a new hacker based on the functions that are implemented.
; ====== Dropship Alert ======
; 医疗运输机报警
; Enable Dropship alert.
; 0 = Disable, 1 = Enable.
; 医疗运输机报警，０关闭，１开启
Dropship_Alert=1
This is a very simple explanation of why Spades DEFINITELY was not hacking. Not only does this alert 'ping' the minimap when a drop ship is loaded and the location it's currently in; it also 'pings' the exact location of where the 'drop' command is issued to drop the unit.. It is a VERY clear indication of a drop and when it is coming. It also throws text along the bottom of the screen to tell you what the ping is for.
Any player with Spades game knowledge would've found a way to scout the drop innocently. Whether it be pathing units underneath the drop by 'accident' or starting to build a depot near the location of the drop's target area.
This was not added to the original thread because after reviewing all the replays, it is physically impossible that someone using this hack would be able to ignore these KEY factors and functions of a hack. A person would have to have absolute down syndrome not to set up a faux defense to quickly catch on to drops and army movements enough to lose a game.
Say what you will about me hacking or whatever; I haven't played SC2 in months but quite frankly a person of Spades caliber in terms of skill would at least patrol vikings or units on the outskirts of his base to at least fool the viewers and the opposing players into thinking that he/she wasn't hacking.
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Question to all you who have seen the replays.
Is it true that he at no occasion during these 7 games holds his camera over a fog of war area? And that his camera at several times locks up at the edge of where the fog of war starts on the screen (in addition to all the other lock ups)?
Since the hack apparantly results in just this, this would be the one main thing thats fishy to me. But then again, a player could obviously play many games in a row without ever looking at a fog of war area despite how crazy that seems to me. But i guess certain players can have certain weird playstyles.
Like someone earlier suggested in the thread i think a wise thing for Spades to do would be to just select as many of his recent replays as possible and rar them and put it out there. If there is no consistant suspicious play showing up in these replays that is absolutely something that would be in his favour. But then obviously he would need to show (and proove) that these werent cherrypicked replays and that it indeed is a complete list of all his recent games during the last month or so.
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On June 05 2012 08:51 sekalf wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 08:49 starcraft911 wrote:On June 05 2012 08:47 sekalf wrote:On June 05 2012 08:45 starcraft911 wrote:On June 05 2012 08:36 oxxo wrote:On June 05 2012 08:34 Holytornados wrote:On June 05 2012 08:29 sekalf wrote:On June 05 2012 08:26 shabinka wrote:
Better question: why does he have to stare at other places on the map for 10+ seconds at a time? If it is a camera lock and he is you know using a map hack, wouldn't he just have to glance around the map quickly. He has high apm and doesn't need to stare at things to know exactly whats going on. A quick glimpse in his base would be more than enough to put him leagues ahead of his opponent. Maybe he is scratching his ass or something? Or eating a banana? Having the screen still for 10 seconds prove absolutely nothing. Spades said earlier in his response that he was performing other actions while the screen was locked (macroing). If he were at the computer why would he randomly decide to let the screen sit still? He should explain how in Antiga at 9:11 he sits his screen for almost 10 seconds while 'macroing' and lets 4 SCVs go in gas (while on screen) AND gets supply blocked. There is no explanation other than the truth. He's a maphacker. I've been around the RTS scene from the conception of replays and it's always the same story. He's going to deny everything and deflect as if he's a victim. He's going to focus on things such as 'fog', "well i always look at fog before i scan..." as if that actually matters, but the actions that are controllable by ANY player such as looking at fog doesn't prove anything. Spades will NEVER address how he selects units that are NOT hotkeyed while he stares blindly at the middle of the screen because there is no explanation other than he's hacking. Plain and simple. I think once Spades realizes that he's been caught and mans up this will all blow over, but there's no better proof of maphack than what's laid before us. You still havent said in what game and at what time stamp he does this impossible thing with the scv? It's in the OP... did you read the OP? Did you even watch the replay? Why are you posting in this thread if you're this clueless. The OP lined it out pretty much perfect. Everything is time stamped. Are you for real? Are you talking about "Game 4: Metalopolis 2:50 He selects his SCV and make it go back to his base, however, his camera is blocked on his barracks for about 5 seconds." His scv is clearly hotkeyed. Are YOU for real?
No, he's talking about a different map and different time, as has been explained. You are both looking like retards here.
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I think we've hit circlejerk status here. There's probably less than ten people in this thread who know enough for their statements to be taken seriously. Everyone else is chiming in either not really looking over the replays, hopping on the bandwagon or just plain trolling.
I'd like to see a streamed replay analysis, preferably with a few pros at the same time going over each replay in question. As an observer of the game I'm not familiar with the hack but have a general understanding of it. I also don't have enough background of Spades' playstyle to come to any definite conclusions. And this thread isn't helping much with that because there aren't enough people here who really know what their talking about.
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On June 05 2012 08:45 starcraft911 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 08:36 oxxo wrote:On June 05 2012 08:34 Holytornados wrote:On June 05 2012 08:29 sekalf wrote:On June 05 2012 08:26 shabinka wrote:
Better question: why does he have to stare at other places on the map for 10+ seconds at a time? If it is a camera lock and he is you know using a map hack, wouldn't he just have to glance around the map quickly. He has high apm and doesn't need to stare at things to know exactly whats going on. A quick glimpse in his base would be more than enough to put him leagues ahead of his opponent. Maybe he is scratching his ass or something? Or eating a banana? Having the screen still for 10 seconds prove absolutely nothing. Spades said earlier in his response that he was performing other actions while the screen was locked (macroing). If he were at the computer why would he randomly decide to let the screen sit still? He should explain how in Antiga at 9:11 he sits his screen for almost 10 seconds while 'macroing' and lets 4 SCVs go in gas (while on screen) AND gets supply blocked. There is no explanation other than the truth. He's a maphacker. I've been around the RTS scene from the conception of replays and it's always the same story. He's going to deny everything and deflect as if he's a victim. He's going to focus on things such as 'fog', "well i always look at fog before i scan..." as if that actually matters, but the actions that are controllable by ANY player such as looking at fog doesn't prove anything. Spades will NEVER address how he selects units that are NOT hotkeyed while he stares blindly at the middle of the screen because there is no explanation other than he's hacking. Plain and simple. I think once Spades realizes that he's been caught and mans up this will all blow over, but there's no better proof of maphack than what's laid before us.
He's never going to give up because he is a known hacker in the past. The way you described it, when this "blows over," this issue may no longer be discussed, but Spades will be exiled from the community and rightly so.
I said it before in a previous post, I'm not outright accusing him, but if he were to be caught 100% or give in, that's what would happen.
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On June 05 2012 08:50 TMOUllrich wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 08:37 Denzil wrote:
This community is fucking ridiculous, why are we discussing if Nerchio is a maphacker or not? Unless someone can pull up at least 5 replays of suspicious activity please stick to the topic of viewing Spades' replays and looking at the points mentioned in the OP Nerchio made a mistake to post in this thread. He had his reasons but he came to the wrong conclusion when considering the resulting reaction. In threads like this pro-gamers are walking on razor wire and if you're not psychologically competent please don't post, for your own sake.
By psychologically competent, you mean used to herd behavior and bandwagon effect, and ready to flatter the moral panic as a cheap politician?
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Nerchios post is the only worthwhile one in this thread, I'm not qualified to say if Spades is cheating or not and neither are most of the people jumping on the bandwagon in this thread.
Think about the fact that you are endangering a mans career before you join in. and leave it to the pros to decide.
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On June 05 2012 08:47 Treva wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 08:34 Holytornados wrote:On June 05 2012 08:29 sekalf wrote:On June 05 2012 08:26 shabinka wrote:
Better question: why does he have to stare at other places on the map for 10+ seconds at a time? If it is a camera lock and he is you know using a map hack, wouldn't he just have to glance around the map quickly. He has high apm and doesn't need to stare at things to know exactly whats going on. A quick glimpse in his base would be more than enough to put him leagues ahead of his opponent. Maybe he is scratching his ass or something? Or eating a banana? Having the screen still for 10 seconds prove absolutely nothing. Spades said earlier in his response that he was performing other actions while the screen was locked (macroing). If he were at the computer why would he randomly decide to let the screen sit still? There are a lot of reasons. A popular one is if I'm texting and I need to keep quick with my responses so I'll look down at my phone for 15 or so seconds while texting a response and then start playing again. I'm not going to pause the game every minute or so so I can text. He also said he has 2 monitors, he could of alt-tabbed out to do w/e. A few days ago someone called me on Skype during a game, I hit accept by mistake and I had to alt-tab out for about 10-15 seconds to get out of the call and then close Skype. I could go on but you get the point. I'm not saying Spades is innocent or guilty in my eyes since I haven't watched the reps but you don't know if someone was there distracting him or if he had to alt-tab out for some reason. Not to mention a lot of those situations are pretty easy to forget, like if someone told me why my camera stood still for 9 seconds during this part in a game I probably wouldn't be able to say exactly why since it would of been for a reason that wasn't really memorable, like tabbing out to close a program or texting someone back.
I'm not claiming guilty/innocent either, but it was a showmatch with something on the line. I wouldn't be so easily distracted if I were in his position. That may just be me though.
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On June 05 2012 08:35 starcraft911 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 08:20 Wolfe87 wrote:
I wish you could make it mandatory for everyone who posts in this thread to watch the replays, so many people just jump on the bandwagon about everything. I watched the replays and I don't understand what the problems are. He went blind Raven? So what? I have seen that build in the GSL, are those players hacking? Oh he moved his army to there where Lucifron was gonna be. Give me a break. This witchunt seems to be clutching at straws. I have seen it said that Spades' answers have been vague well so has every single point brought up about the hacking.
So much nonsense in this thread and people just coming in(a couple of pros included) to just talk shit about Spades without even watching the replays, I mean seriously what the hell?
People need to watch the replays for themselves, weigh all the data in them, look at everything and make up THEIR OWN damn mind.
Personally I have watched all of the replays from Spades perspective and Lucifron's perspective at varying speeds and paid particular attention to the times stamped in the original post. I don't see anything suspicious and a lot of the actions that have been deemed "suspicious" have perfectly logical explanations. I'm not going to list every single one and give my thoughts on each(although i was going to.) This is getting taken way out of hand by some people and a lot here are taking the words of others at first glance and not doing any research or thinking for themselves.
Like I said Spades is not a hacker in my eyes and people need to chill the hell out. Try this out... I want you to make a game and without hotkeying any of your workers I want you to move your camera to the middle of the screen. Now without moving your camera or using control groups I want you to select a single scv. This is what happened and it's the product of using a camera freeze which is part of the map hack package. The proof has nothing to do with any of the choices that were made in the game. If you look specifically at the mechanics in the sc2 engine and view what's being broken you'll understand. If you're stuck on what units he made to counter what you'll never get it. You seem to think this is a debate in which case your opinion matters, but the debate has ended. Facts are there and if you choose to ignore them then you're a fool. Again, it has nothing to do with what units were made or what timings things happened, or even what was scouted. Attempt my challenge to you and you'll quickly realize that this case is a wrap.
Well if my opinion doesn't matter then why should yours? I mean if you dismiss my opinion then that it is up to you but by that logic I am allowed to dismiss yours. Also calling me a fool is not really part of a civilized debate and its counter productive to your argument but that is not the point. My opinion and your opinion clearly differ, in which there is no problem.
I was merely pointing out some of the "facts" that have been stated by others as well as yourself are not able to prove beyond reasonable doubt that Spade was hacking in this best of 7 match with Lucifron. If you could be more specific and timestamp exactly where and in which replay you are talking about I would happily go and have a look and judge for myself. Your mind seems already been made up but I would ask you to back up what you are talking about specifically so that others, including myself, could judge for themselves.
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On June 05 2012 08:52 gangstarr wrote:
I understand I will probably be banned following this post or it may be deleted, however, this is definitive proof that Spades could not have possibly been hacking during this series. I cannot speak for other games that he's played, however, there are multiple features and functions within a legitimate SCII hack that would prevent MANY of the occurences and mistakes that Spades made during those games from happening. Obviously you cannot scout or prevent every attack, or blind counter every unit comp; however, there were crucial and vital engagements and attacks during these games that would have been easily prevented by even a new hacker based on the functions that are implemented.
; ====== Dropship Alert ======
; 医疗运输机报警
; Enable Dropship alert.
; 0 = Disable, 1 = Enable.
; 医疗运输机报警，０关闭，１开启
Dropship_Alert=1
This is a very simple explanation of why Spades DEFINITELY was not hacking. Not only does this alert 'ping' the minimap when a drop ship is loaded and the location it's currently in; it also 'pings' the exact location of where the 'drop' command is issued to drop the unit.. It is a VERY clear indication of a drop and when it is coming. It also throws text along the bottom of the screen to tell you what the ping is for.
Any player with Spades game knowledge would've found a way to scout the drop innocently. Whether it be pathing units underneath the drop by 'accident' or starting to build a depot near the location of the drop's target area.
This was not added to the original thread because after reviewing all the replays, it is physically impossible that someone using this hack would be able to ignore these KEY factors and functions of a hack. A person would have to have absolute down syndrome not to set up a faux defense to quickly catch on to drops and army movements enough to lose a game.
Say what you will about me hacking or whatever; I haven't played SC2 in months but quite frankly a person of Spades caliber in terms of skill would at least patrol vikings or units on the outskirts of his base to at least fool the viewers and the opposing players into thinking that he/she wasn't hacking.
How do you know he didn't have Dropship_Alert=0 ?
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While I'm still highly suspicious, and even inclined to believe he hacks I just spent 10 minutes watching a vod of his and noticed two things. First, he does send his scouting SCVs through fog. He even forgot to micro it for a while in the enemy's base. Second, he does scan on the minimap THEN click to the location at about ~10 minutes.
http://www.twitch.tv/kingspades/b/320339839
Vod
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EPT
