07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here
10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.
08:47 KST - Summary: Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open.
Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims.
(also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here)
On June 07 2012 17:43 Canucklehead wrote: I bet the op is lucifron. The other thread talking about the op's identity said tl mods know who it is, but won't reveal him. If he was just a no name random spanish poster, they would have no reason to hide his identity, cause no one would give a damn. That leaves it most likely to be lucifron himself and tl doesn't want to cause trouble for him. There's no point in protecting someone no one has never heard of, so the op has to be a known person.
Is there any other Spanish progamers of note that lucifron knows? Is there any French or Spanish progamers with a grudge vs Spades?
On June 07 2012 17:43 Canucklehead wrote: I bet the op is lucifron. The other thread talking about the op's identity said tl mods know who it is, but won't reveal him. If he was just a no name random spanish poster, they would have no reason to hide his identity, cause no one would give a damn. That leaves it most likely to be lucifron himself and tl doesn't want to cause trouble for him. There's no point in protecting someone no one has never heard of, so the op has to be a known person.
Is there any other Spanish progamers of note that lucifron knows? Is there any French or Spanish progamers with a grudge vs Spades?
Finish reading that thread before speculating here.
At the very least, I am appreciative of you putting in your due diligence, and continuing to make everything so precise and clear with your posts. Thanks for this.
♥ (Unlike the previous one I gave, this one's sincere.)
On June 07 2012 17:29 dvorakftw wrote: Okay so what I decided to do is grab all the Spades replays from his MLG games in 2010 and 11 and look for things that people have complained about. Unfortunately I didn't find the minimap SCV scouting - because if (or when) I do I will declare victory and dance a jig - but again MLG is closer to ladder in that you don't get to study and prep builds for a particular opponent in advance. However I did find in games against coLMVPKeen and FXOmOoNan respectively:
Not really a good idea and I don't recall it mentioned much here but it's something I remember from CatZ/Illusion and it's easy to disprove. Note The red above the minimap box are enemy units seen by a sensor tower so he knows he is moving the tanks toward danger.
I know it's not easy but trust me you can zoom in and see the minimap's unfog of war circle before he scrolls up.
Changing army direction due to spotting a minimap dot: + Show Spoiler +
Again you can't really see it, but the story is Spades takes one Xel and starts moving to the second when a red dot appears in the yellow circled area. Within a second he changes direction to defend the drop which he ends up holding off without any of that army. I know it doesn't exactly match the scan at 32:20 and move at 32:50 on TDA but does anyone really still want to say he should ignore 4 previous drops to that spot and the scan info to continue defending the mined out 3rd?
Marching his army into death while looking somewhere else for macro: + Show Spoiler +
One of the more recent complaints. Again, bad idea but it's something he apparently does and this time he pays for it.
Again, suspicious play is foiled by the opponent not doing his part. If only his opponent had started the 3rd we could call shenanigans.
Anyway, I have new-found appreciation for lawyers getting $100/hr. and up. This stuff is tedious. So much easier to make 20 claims, see half of them dismissed and just continue saying "What about the rest?"
That's good stuff right there, sir. Glad someone actually took the time to examine stuff before jumping on the hate/don't hate train.
On June 07 2012 17:43 Canucklehead wrote: I bet the op is lucifron. The other thread talking about the op's identity said tl mods know who it is, but won't reveal him. If he was just a no name random spanish poster, they would have no reason to hide his identity, cause no one would give a damn. That leaves it most likely to be lucifron himself and tl doesn't want to cause trouble for him. There's no point in protecting someone no one has never heard of, so the op has to be a known person.
If its true I completely understand the reasons he would want to remain anonymous then when releasing a replay pack of himself and accusing the opponent of hacking. Can you imagine the backlash he would also be facing if he had posted as himself? Hypothetically of course. I have seen no strong evidence that it would be him yet.
It's the only reason I can think of that explains why TL would allow someone to post something anonymously, without revisions or participation in the thread. It would have to be someone important.
Still, if it was Lucifron, I do think as a professional courtesy he should be up front about it. If you're willing to call out another player, you should be willing to have to defend your position and your own credibility as well.
I'M TALKING HYPOTHETICALLY, I have no idea who it is.
On June 07 2012 17:43 Canucklehead wrote: I bet the op is lucifron. The other thread talking about the op's identity said tl mods know who it is, but won't reveal him. If he was just a no name random spanish poster, they would have no reason to hide his identity, cause no one would give a damn. That leaves it most likely to be lucifron himself and tl doesn't want to cause trouble for him. There's no point in protecting someone no one has never heard of, so the op has to be a known person.
Is there any other Spanish progamers of note that lucifron knows? Is there any French or Spanish progamers with a grudge vs Spades?
I don't know anyone of note in the spanish community besides lucifron and I suspect that goes for the majority of people not involved in the spanish scene. I can't see TL protecting someone else in the spanish community that 95% of people would have never heard of.
Personally, I don't care if lucifron is the op because other pros have already agreed that spades is a hacker and that's good enough for me.
On June 07 2012 17:43 Canucklehead wrote: I bet the op is lucifron. The other thread talking about the op's identity said tl mods know who it is, but won't reveal him. If he was just a no name random spanish poster, they would have no reason to hide his identity, cause no one would give a damn. That leaves it most likely to be lucifron himself and tl doesn't want to cause trouble for him. There's no point in protecting someone no one has never heard of, so the op has to be a known person.
Is there any other Spanish progamers of note that lucifron knows? Is there any French or Spanish progamers with a grudge vs Spades?
Finish reading that thread before speculating here.
I highly doubt OP is Lucifron. A lot of the "evidence" points that were given sound like they were given by a lower league player. No Masters player would ever complain about putting marines in the main to intercept an unscouted banshee--that's very likely to happen with or without maphacks. Also, some of his points, like not checking to see if the building at the ramp is a barracks on the Shakuras scan, sound like it was put forth by a Gold league player or something.
On June 07 2012 18:05 tonycheese wrote: I highly doubt OP is Lucifron. A lot of the "evidence" points that were given sound like they were given by a lower league player. No Masters player would ever complain about putting marines in the main to intercept an unscouted banshee--that's very likely to happen with or without maphacks. Also, some of his points, like not checking to see if the building at the ramp is a barracks on the Shakuras scan, sound like it was put forth by a Gold league player or something.
It's like when hackers intentionally let things go by, like drops so they can point at that and go see, I don't hack otherwise I would have stopped this drop. Op could have easily written it at a lower level to deflect suspicion because the op as written was enough to generate discussion, which allowed more pros to put their name to their own findings publicly.
On June 07 2012 17:10 Adonminus wrote: I'm still curious who's drolets, the guy who started this thread?
People know who drolets is. The name will not be released. Go find out for yourself if you're that interested.
It's a great "mystery within a mystery" to some. To others it is more clear.
I don't get it. how do so many ppl know and how are we supposed to "go find out by ourselves" ? I want to know
Type what I put in quotes into the search bar at the top right, then read that thread.
I already read that thread. Did you? Lorch seems pretty confident about the whole thing so it looks like it's not him. He knows TL staff has identified the IP so he wouldn't be so confident if it was him. So the mystery is still entire to me.
On June 07 2012 18:05 tonycheese wrote: I highly doubt OP is Lucifron. A lot of the "evidence" points that were given sound like they were given by a lower league player. No Masters player would ever complain about putting marines in the main to intercept an unscouted banshee--that's very likely to happen with or without maphacks. Also, some of his points, like not checking to see if the building at the ramp is a barracks on the Shakuras scan, sound like it was put forth by a Gold league player or something.
Hey, if you suspect that you were being hacked, everything would look suspicious to you, even if you were a high level pro.
Also it was more accusations by other pros that were REALLY damning for Spades and made this thread reopen. The OP is quite irrelevant over all, he just gave the initial impetus.
On June 07 2012 17:29 dvorakftw wrote: Okay so what I decided to do is grab all the Spades replays from his MLG games in 2010 and 11 and look for things that people have complained about. Unfortunately I didn't find the minimap SCV scouting - because if (or when) I do I will declare victory and dance a jig - but again MLG is closer to ladder in that you don't get to study and prep builds for a particular opponent in advance. However I did find in games against coLMVPKeen and FXOmOoNan respectively:
Not really a good idea and I don't recall it mentioned much here but it's something I remember from CatZ/Illusion and it's easy to disprove. Note The red above the minimap box are enemy units seen by a sensor tower so he knows he is moving the tanks toward danger.
I know it's not easy but trust me you can zoom in and see the minimap's unfog of war circle before he scrolls up.
Changing army direction due to spotting a minimap dot: + Show Spoiler +
Again you can't really see it, but the story is Spades takes one Xel and starts moving to the second when a red dot appears in the yellow circled area. Within a second he changes direction to defend the drop which he ends up holding off without any of that army. I know it doesn't exactly match the scan at 32:20 and move at 32:50 on TDA but does anyone really still want to say he should ignore 4 previous drops to that spot and the scan info to continue defending the mined out 3rd?
Marching his army into death while looking somewhere else for macro: + Show Spoiler +
One of the more recent complaints. Again, bad idea but it's something he apparently does and this time he pays for it.
Again, suspicious play is foiled by the opponent not doing his part. If only his opponent had started the 3rd we could call shenanigans.
Anyway, I have new-found appreciation for lawyers getting $100/hr. and up. This stuff is tedious. So much easier to make 20 claims, see half of them dismissed and just continue saying "What about the rest?"
That's good stuff right there, sir. Glad someone actually took the time to examine stuff before jumping on the hate/don't hate train.
The stuff he analyzed was meaningless. The piece of hard evidence is difference in how the FOW is used. This is the one and only piece of evidence that matters to me and as it stands there's no explanation for it.
I have plenty of replays where I scan just as someone throws down a tech building or expo. The only relevance the 'findings' catz portrayed was the high volume of fish in such a small barrel. Every good player will have a game where they appear to be hacking due to lucky guesses, but to pull that shit off game after game while never looking at the FOW. Get real.
On June 07 2012 17:54 Risen wrote: That's good stuff right there, sir. Glad someone actually took the time to examine stuff before jumping on the hate/don't hate train.
These are Spades' MLG games of two years ago, just to make sure everybody is aware of it.
EPT![[image loading]](http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/9849/spadesmvpteam.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/5408/spadesmvpteam2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/700/spadesmvpteam3.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/8799/spadesoonan.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/7680/spadesoonan2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img845.imageshack.us/img845/9486/spadesoonan3.jpg)
I want to know
