07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here
10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.
08:47 KST - Summary: Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open.
Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims.
(also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here)
On June 05 2012 19:48 Benjamin99 wrote: I cant belive people are still arguing if he is a hacker or not. Really? Open you eyes plz and study the replays listen to what other pro telling you, look at his past and its pretty conclusive.
This is simply a case of an unknown player trying to make a name for himself by beating a top foreigner player and instead of working hard like others do he decide to take an easy road. Its sad and I really hope our community burn him. If this isnt dealt with in a serious manner it could ruin our competitive scene.
No it's fucking not conclusive. 100 replays are conclusive, a bo7 isn't. It's this kind of mentality that causes these witch hunts to be so outright idiotic.
Stop being a fucking internet lawyer. Open you eyes listen to the pro´s watch the replay´s. Listen to what Illusion,Catz,Drewbie,TT1 sayd on there stream listen to what Merz sayd. There is pleanty of evidence this isnt a witch hunt this is exposing a cheater and im glad we are doing this. You have todo everything in you power to protect the competive scene
There is no evidence, though. There's nothing in these replays that says "Oh, that's definitely a hack, there's no doubt", such as CC's automatically using MULEs or SCV's being produced, because all the "evidence" as you call it can be coincidental, and thus, never definitive. Face it, you can't prove anything unless in-game actions are made that are not issued by Spades.
Ofcourse there is no 100% solid evidence becuase we dont got the tools to find out completly. But there are so many things that just doesnt add up.
The biggest for me are 32.50 on Tal darim how in gods name do you explain that? Also another strange thing in the entire serie vs Lucifron not once do he click in the fog of war but on his normal replays he do that like 10 times in each game. Explain it? You cant
Catz.Drewbie,Ilusion,TT1 went over so much stuff yesteday that i was amased by the shit that happend.
And if you look at his past then it really are a no brainer. He cheated and he did that to make a name form himself by beating one of the best players in the foreign scene today.
I hope he burns and it really bothers me people are still defending him dont you understand how dangerious this is? This little shit has basically destroyed any online competive play
How is that weird to you, like what the hell, are you all in Silver League or something? I saw what CatZ went through, he thought it was "definitive proof" that a camera in a replay moved slower to a certain position, due to a scan being used away from his point of view. Apparently, CatZ doesn't know that if you use the "camera lock" in replays, it doesn't actually lock to your camera, but your actions, so when he uses a scan, it takes the screen 1,44 seconds to move from his original targeted units/structures to where he scanned.
Also, I know a ton of people incl. myself who don't click in the Fog of War, because why would I?? Why can Spades not play the game the way he wants? Would you accuse me of hacking too if I told you I never do something outside the Fog of War as Terran?
You have no idea if he's hacking or not because you have absolutely no idea what you're looking at when you see these replays. You really don't, face it, you're generic Witch Hunter number 217.
I can give you a replay list of my last 100 games played and I can point out 1000 things that are coincidental and "doesn't add up", are you going to accuse them of hacking, too? Because the things they do "don't add up?"
Thx for the insult!
Btw any progamer will tell say this. You dont surdenly change you mechanics in a showmatch. When you play a 1000 games little things will start to become automatic. Clicking in the fog of war for scouting etc are one of those.
Really you are pretty clueless if you dont understand this
Coming from a guy who apparently takes offense in what I just said, I think it's you who're pretty clueless and don't understand. And just for the record, a lot of progamers has commented on the thread, saying he doesn't hack. "You don't suddenly change your mechanics in a showmatch", well shit, buddy, he did, just like others have, if you're going to accuse Spades of hacking because he changes strategy during a showmatach, which to me sounds like something I would to confuse my opponent, I'd like you to accuse everyone else who does that, too.
On June 05 2012 19:48 Benjamin99 wrote: I cant belive people are still arguing if he is a hacker or not. Really? Open you eyes plz and study the replays listen to what other pro telling you, look at his past and its pretty conclusive.
This is simply a case of an unknown player trying to make a name for himself by beating a top foreigner player and instead of working hard like others do he decide to take an easy road. Its sad and I really hope our community burn him. If this isnt dealt with in a serious manner it could ruin our competitive scene.
No it's fucking not conclusive. 100 replays are conclusive, a bo7 isn't. It's this kind of mentality that causes these witch hunts to be so outright idiotic.
Stop being a fucking internet lawyer. Open you eyes listen to the pro´s watch the replay´s. Listen to what Illusion,Catz,Drewbie,TT1 sayd on there stream listen to what Merz sayd. There is pleanty of evidence this isnt a witch hunt this is exposing a cheater and im glad we are doing this. You have todo everything in you power to protect the competive scene
The competitive scene doesn't need you to protect it, it needs people like you to stay out of it. All of this is speculation and only snowballing into something worse.
Yea, it does it needs the community to burn the cheaters. I cant stress this enough. Unless ofcourse you want competive sc2 to end?
On June 05 2012 20:11 Masq wrote: Its been awhile since I've played against Spades, but when we were both on Inflow I never suspected him of maphacking or cheating. I haven't checked out the replays yet though.
Either way, the situation kind of sucks. Too much witchhunt mentality.
I dont agree with that at all. Any progamer with a history like his should allways be looked at carefully. You just cant ignore it, becuase if more and more think they can get away with cheating our competive scene is dead..
It shouldn't be ignored, but it shouldn't have a 150 page thread of public discussion (within 24hr) with jimmy silver and johnny platinum calling him a hacker. What does this solve besides ruining his career? He's basically fucked either way now, even if he was innocent.
A lot of players have dubious pasts, and even Mirhi/Artist? stated that things such as stream cheating is common practice within Korean pro envrionments, and their competitive scene isn't dead. Stop being so overly dramatic and think about your actions for half a second.
Artist came out and said it was a misunderstanding between him and Mirhi. Poor translation between them. Which is an entirely different issue than what is on the plate here. The only thing Mirhi admitted to was knowing Spades was stream cheating during the time he was the on the team. Instead of taking action against Spades, he decided to pass it off as oh well I suppose this is common practice because they say so?
On June 05 2012 10:34 Rowrin wrote: Cant believe there are people questioning Spades credibility and not realizing the contradiction in taking the words of a guy with 1 post as law.
you have 47 posts, aside from the huge amount of irony this raises, do you think people should ignore you based of your low post count?
The 1 post count the OP has probably means that he is a regular here who created a new account just to post this. I think that damages his credibility moreso than the actual quantity of posts. He is accusing someone of cheating, he should put his name behind it. He is attacking someone else's reputation, yet he hides his identity so HIS reputation cant be taken into account (or damaged if he's wrong)? This shows a lack of character.
Exactly my thoughts. The OP is a coward.
Why is that a problem? It happens with anonymous tips to newspapers about stories or to the police about crimes all the time? If the option to remain anonymous wouldnt exist, a lot of stuff would never reach the surface. It might be cowardly, but hardly something to get upset over, nor something to take into account when discussing the topic.
Problem is, at least from my point of view, that the OP just made one post and that's it. He hasn't bothered to reply once more in this thread, considering the shitstorm he created, which would be nice. And doesn't the defendant has the right to face his accuser? I would like to hear more from OP and why he created this thread. Was it just to spite Spades or his moral demanded that he does that? If it was moral than it's funny that he used other/new account to do that.
Did you not see all the testaments from the players? did you not see catz, illusion etc do the replay analysis? the evidence is quite obvious, it doesn't matter if the OP doesn't reply to his own thread since already other people have already looked at the situation and replays and have made a general consensus that he did cheat. Any and ALL hacking needs to be taken very seriously, it does not matter if he's being cowardly.
I saw it. And i haven't commented about his innocence/being guilty. And since were mentioning the players analysis, did you not see Nerchio's one? See how it's easy to find the other/opposite side? And it matters to me. If you have the "balls" to call someone out, than you should also have the balls to defend your point and sty in the "argument" 'till the end. Not just make one post and be gone with the wind. I do agree that hacking needs to be taken seriously, but i do also believe that a man should stand behind his actions. If we go by that logic, what prevents me from creating new account, pick one game from, lets say, d.Apollo and accuse him for hacking (Apollo is used just as an example since i watched his stream yesterday and he's the first person i thought of, I'm not claiming that he hacks), and than just leave thread and wallow in all the drama i created. Besides, this is also credibility problem. Someone can get accused because he had bad/dubious past, but we should totally take word from some anonymous. Yes, I saw that the other pros were included now, but as far as I can see they haven't been able to conclude that he is positively, without a doubt hacking. So in this case i would very much like to hear once more from OP, especially since even some pros managed to prove that some of his conclusions were wrong.
On June 05 2012 20:29 Benjamin99 wrote: Yea, it does it needs the community to burn the cheaters. I cant stress this enough. Unless ofcourse you want competive sc2 to end?
Tournament admins, team staff and people with actual authority are more than enough to control cheaters.
On June 05 2012 20:16 Aserrin wrote: People is innocent until proven otherwise... you know that right? There's no conclusive proof that he cheated, so he's innocent until then.
well you dont have to necessarily "proof" he hacked if there is no other logical possibility other than hacking. now those possiblities in sc2 might be luck,starsense,random chance...
i personally am not convinced yet . strange stuff happens.
Oh, this is great stuff, mang, talk about logical possibility in probably the most strategic real-time strategy game on planet Earth. If this is the main reason for your misdoubt, I suggest you take a look at Bronze league players, they do so much random shit that they might all be hacking. + Show Spoiler +
Obviously kidding
Seriously though, there's no proof, he's innocent, you cannot prove that he hacks unless an in-game action is being made by the player, that is not issued by the player. He could be looking at the Fog of War all day long if he wants, but from a non-StarCraft related, professional point of view, he's not hacking and accusing him of doing so would be like accussing an employee of robbing a bank in his or her sparetime because he or she makes more money than you, but you don't know where the money comes from.
On June 05 2012 19:48 Benjamin99 wrote: I cant belive people are still arguing if he is a hacker or not. Really? Open you eyes plz and study the replays listen to what other pro telling you, look at his past and its pretty conclusive.
This is simply a case of an unknown player trying to make a name for himself by beating a top foreigner player and instead of working hard like others do he decide to take an easy road. Its sad and I really hope our community burn him. If this isnt dealt with in a serious manner it could ruin our competitive scene.
No it's fucking not conclusive. 100 replays are conclusive, a bo7 isn't. It's this kind of mentality that causes these witch hunts to be so outright idiotic.
Stop being a fucking internet lawyer. Open you eyes listen to the pro´s watch the replay´s. Listen to what Illusion,Catz,Drewbie,TT1 sayd on there stream listen to what Merz sayd. There is pleanty of evidence this isnt a witch hunt this is exposing a cheater and im glad we are doing this. You have todo everything in you power to protect the competive scene
There is no evidence, though. There's nothing in these replays that says "Oh, that's definitely a hack, there's no doubt", such as CC's automatically using MULEs or SCV's being produced, because all the "evidence" as you call it can be coincidental, and thus, never definitive. Face it, you can't prove anything unless in-game actions are made that are not issued by Spades.
Ofcourse there is no 100% solid evidence becuase we dont got the tools to find out completly. But there are so many things that just doesnt add up.
The biggest for me are 32.50 on Tal darim how in gods name do you explain that? Also another strange thing in the entire serie vs Lucifron not once do he click in the fog of war but on his normal replays he do that like 10 times in each game. Explain it? You cant
Catz.Drewbie,Ilusion,TT1 went over so much stuff yesteday that i was amased by the shit that happend.
And if you look at his past then it really are a no brainer. He cheated and he did that to make a name form himself by beating one of the best players in the foreign scene today.
I hope he burns and it really bothers me people are still defending him dont you understand how dangerious this is? This little shit has basically destroyed any online competive play
How is that weird to you, like what the hell, are you all in Silver League or something? I saw what CatZ went through, he thought it was "definitive proof" that a camera in a replay moved slower to a certain position, due to a scan being used away from his point of view. Apparently, CatZ doesn't know that if you use the "camera lock" in replays, it doesn't actually lock to your camera, but your actions, so when he uses a scan, it takes the screen 1,44 seconds to move from his original targeted units/structures to where he scanned.
Also, I know a ton of people incl. myself who don't click in the Fog of War, because why would I?? Why can Spades not play the game the way he wants? Would you accuse me of hacking too if I told you I never do something outside the Fog of War as Terran?
You have no idea if he's hacking or not because you have absolutely no idea what you're looking at when you see these replays. You really don't, face it, you're generic Witch Hunter number 217.
I can give you a replay list of my last 100 games played and I can point out 1000 things that are coincidental and "doesn't add up", are you going to accuse them of hacking, too? Because the things they do "don't add up?"
Thx for the insult!
Btw any progamer will tell say this. You dont surdenly change you mechanics in a showmatch. When you play a 1000 games little things will start to become automatic. Clicking in the fog of war for scouting etc are one of those.
Really you are pretty clueless if you dont understand this
Coming from a guy who apparently takes offense in what I just said, I think it's you who're pretty clueless and don't understand. And just for the record, a lot of progamers has commented on the thread, saying he doesn't hack. "You don't suddenly change your mechanics in a showmatch", well shit, buddy, he did, just like others have, if you're going to accuse Spades of hacking because he changes strategy during a showmatach, which to me sounds like something I would to confuse my opponent, I'd like you to accuse everyone else who does that, too.
On June 05 2012 19:48 Benjamin99 wrote: I cant belive people are still arguing if he is a hacker or not. Really? Open you eyes plz and study the replays listen to what other pro telling you, look at his past and its pretty conclusive.
This is simply a case of an unknown player trying to make a name for himself by beating a top foreigner player and instead of working hard like others do he decide to take an easy road. Its sad and I really hope our community burn him. If this isnt dealt with in a serious manner it could ruin our competitive scene.
No it's fucking not conclusive. 100 replays are conclusive, a bo7 isn't. It's this kind of mentality that causes these witch hunts to be so outright idiotic.
Stop being a fucking internet lawyer. Open you eyes listen to the pro´s watch the replay´s. Listen to what Illusion,Catz,Drewbie,TT1 sayd on there stream listen to what Merz sayd. There is pleanty of evidence this isnt a witch hunt this is exposing a cheater and im glad we are doing this. You have todo everything in you power to protect the competive scene
The competitive scene doesn't need you to protect it, it needs people like you to stay out of it. All of this is speculation and only snowballing into something worse.
Yea, it does it needs the community to burn the cheaters. I cant stress this enough. Unless ofcourse you want competive sc2 to end?
On June 05 2012 19:58 EtherealDeath wrote: Useful video Axeltoss made about the "Magic Scan" and how it's not quite so magical.
edit - Basically, I think we can derive from this that what we see in game is not always what we see in replay.
well this confirms the cameralock claims are false anyways
Axel was moving to the left, scanning and then moving back to the right again. Spades moved up, scanned and STOPPED. I think the motion tweening was on Axel's side for his demonstrations, whereas Spades' camera didn't actually move back down after the scan occurred, hence to tweening took place.
Anyway idk, I think Spades is pretty fucked as it is.
On June 05 2012 10:34 Rowrin wrote: Cant believe there are people questioning Spades credibility and not realizing the contradiction in taking the words of a guy with 1 post as law.
you have 47 posts, aside from the huge amount of irony this raises, do you think people should ignore you based of your low post count?
The 1 post count the OP has probably means that he is a regular here who created a new account just to post this. I think that damages his credibility moreso than the actual quantity of posts. He is accusing someone of cheating, he should put his name behind it. He is attacking someone else's reputation, yet he hides his identity so HIS reputation cant be taken into account (or damaged if he's wrong)? This shows a lack of character.
Exactly my thoughts. The OP is a coward.
Why is that a problem? It happens with anonymous tips to newspapers about stories or to the police about crimes all the time? If the option to remain anonymous wouldnt exist, a lot of stuff would never reach the surface. It might be cowardly, but hardly something to get upset over, nor something to take into account when discussing the topic.
Problem is, at least from my point of view, that the OP just made one post and that's it. He hasn't bothered to reply once more in this thread, considering the shitstorm he created, which would be nice. And doesn't the defendant has the right to face his accuser? I would like to hear more from OP and why he created this thread. Was it just to spite Spades or his moral demanded that he does that? If it was moral than it's funny that he used other/new account to do that.
Did you not see all the testaments from the players? did you not see catz, illusion etc do the replay analysis? the evidence is quite obvious, it doesn't matter if the OP doesn't reply to his own thread since already other people have already looked at the situation and replays and have made a general consensus that he did cheat. Any and ALL hacking needs to be taken very seriously, it does not matter if he's being cowardly.
I saw it. And i haven't commented about his innocence/being guilty. And since were mentioning the players analysis, did you not see Nerchio's one? See how it's easy to find the other/opposite side? And it matters to me. If you have the "balls" to call someone out, than you should also have the balls to defend your point and sty in the "argument" 'till the end. Not just make one post and be gone with the wind. I do agree that hacking needs to be taken seriously, but i do also believe that a man should stand behind his actions. If we go by that logic, what prevents me from creating new account, pick one game from, lets say, d.Apollo and accuse him for hacking (Apollo is used just as an example since i watched his stream yesterday and he's the first person i thought of, I'm not claiming that he hacks), and than just leave thread and wallow in all the drama i created. Besides, this is also credibility problem. Someone can get accused because he had bad/dubious past, but we should totally take word from some anonymous. Yes, I saw that the other pros were included now, but as far as I can see they haven't been able to conclude that he is positively, without a doubt hacking. So in this case i would very much like to hear once more from OP, especially since even some pros managed to prove that some of his conclusions were wrong.
Nerchio has been rumoured to be a hacker too so his "analysis" is to be looked at carefully, though
I looked at the bo7 vs lucifron, Spades is playing shady as fuck. Any TvTer no matter how good he is at the game, will use scans in abundance to track the opposing army. Spades rarely scans he just seems to know what to guard himself against. There isn't anything pointing out 100 % hacking but i don't think he has such a good game sense to see everything and everywhere.
And that army moving before the medivac came in his main on Metalopolis, that just reeks of suspicion. Most of the time you're busy macroing but he took a couple of seconds only to control his army exactly when the medivac loaded from the low ground
Also on entombed valley, he plans to move the marine medivac army into Lucifron's natural, and by magic just as Lucifron's tanks are sieged he loads up and goes for the drop moving into the main from the third
On June 05 2012 19:48 Benjamin99 wrote: I cant belive people are still arguing if he is a hacker or not. Really? Open you eyes plz and study the replays listen to what other pro telling you, look at his past and its pretty conclusive.
This is simply a case of an unknown player trying to make a name for himself by beating a top foreigner player and instead of working hard like others do he decide to take an easy road. Its sad and I really hope our community burn him. If this isnt dealt with in a serious manner it could ruin our competitive scene.
No it's fucking not conclusive. 100 replays are conclusive, a bo7 isn't. It's this kind of mentality that causes these witch hunts to be so outright idiotic.
Stop being a fucking internet lawyer. Open you eyes listen to the pro´s watch the replay´s. Listen to what Illusion,Catz,Drewbie,TT1 sayd on there stream listen to what Merz sayd. There is pleanty of evidence this isnt a witch hunt this is exposing a cheater and im glad we are doing this. You have todo everything in you power to protect the competive scene
There is no evidence, though. There's nothing in these replays that says "Oh, that's definitely a hack, there's no doubt", such as CC's automatically using MULEs or SCV's being produced, because all the "evidence" as you call it can be coincidental, and thus, never definitive. Face it, you can't prove anything unless in-game actions are made that are not issued by Spades.
Ofcourse there is no 100% solid evidence becuase we dont got the tools to find out completly. But there are so many things that just doesnt add up.
The biggest for me are 32.50 on Tal darim how in gods name do you explain that? Also another strange thing in the entire serie vs Lucifron not once do he click in the fog of war but on his normal replays he do that like 10 times in each game. Explain it? You cant
Catz.Drewbie,Ilusion,TT1 went over so much stuff yesteday that i was amased by the shit that happend.
And if you look at his past then it really are a no brainer. He cheated and he did that to make a name form himself by beating one of the best players in the foreign scene today.
I hope he burns and it really bothers me people are still defending him dont you understand how dangerious this is? This little shit has basically destroyed any online competive play
How is that weird to you, like what the hell, are you all in Silver League or something? I saw what CatZ went through, he thought it was "definitive proof" that a camera in a replay moved slower to a certain position, due to a scan being used away from his point of view. Apparently, CatZ doesn't know that if you use the "camera lock" in replays, it doesn't actually lock to your camera, but your actions, so when he uses a scan, it takes the screen 1,44 seconds to move from his original targeted units/structures to where he scanned.
Also, I know a ton of people incl. myself who don't click in the Fog of War, because why would I?? Why can Spades not play the game the way he wants? Would you accuse me of hacking too if I told you I never do something outside the Fog of War as Terran?
You have no idea if he's hacking or not because you have absolutely no idea what you're looking at when you see these replays. You really don't, face it, you're generic Witch Hunter number 217.
I can give you a replay list of my last 100 games played and I can point out 1000 things that are coincidental and "doesn't add up", are you going to accuse them of hacking, too? Because the things they do "don't add up?"
Thx for the insult!
Btw any progamer will tell say this. You dont surdenly change you mechanics in a showmatch. When you play a 1000 games little things will start to become automatic. Clicking in the fog of war for scouting etc are one of those.
Really you are pretty clueless if you dont understand this
Coming from a guy who apparently takes offense in what I just said, I think it's you who're pretty clueless and don't understand. And just for the record, a lot of progamers has commented on the thread, saying he doesn't hack. "You don't suddenly change your mechanics in a showmatch", well shit, buddy, he did, just like others have, if you're going to accuse Spades of hacking because he changes strategy during a showmatach, which to me sounds like something I would to confuse my opponent, I'd like you to accuse everyone else who does that, too.
On June 05 2012 19:48 Benjamin99 wrote: I cant belive people are still arguing if he is a hacker or not. Really? Open you eyes plz and study the replays listen to what other pro telling you, look at his past and its pretty conclusive.
This is simply a case of an unknown player trying to make a name for himself by beating a top foreigner player and instead of working hard like others do he decide to take an easy road. Its sad and I really hope our community burn him. If this isnt dealt with in a serious manner it could ruin our competitive scene.
No it's fucking not conclusive. 100 replays are conclusive, a bo7 isn't. It's this kind of mentality that causes these witch hunts to be so outright idiotic.
Stop being a fucking internet lawyer. Open you eyes listen to the pro´s watch the replay´s. Listen to what Illusion,Catz,Drewbie,TT1 sayd on there stream listen to what Merz sayd. There is pleanty of evidence this isnt a witch hunt this is exposing a cheater and im glad we are doing this. You have todo everything in you power to protect the competive scene
The competitive scene doesn't need you to protect it, it needs people like you to stay out of it. All of this is speculation and only snowballing into something worse.
Yea, it does it needs the community to burn the cheaters. I cant stress this enough. Unless ofcourse you want competive sc2 to end?
What the community actually needs s an organized, independant group of investigators who deal with all matters such as this. People who are not progamers, but experts in the programs that can be used to hack, and who can instantly spot and judge the signs of hacking. What we have here is a disorganized group of pros who may or may not have an agenda, and a whole lot of maybes.
On June 05 2012 20:29 Benjamin99 wrote: Yea, it does it needs the community to burn the cheaters. I cant stress this enough. Unless ofcourse you want competive sc2 to end?
Tournament admins, team staff and people with actual authority are more than enough to control cheaters.
While I would love to fully agree with that, its already proven it cant be fully trusted in this thread. Spades old manager was aware he was stream cheating. Yet had no integrity to prevent it. However he withholds the information for however long to try and bury Spades.
On June 05 2012 10:34 Rowrin wrote: Cant believe there are people questioning Spades credibility and not realizing the contradiction in taking the words of a guy with 1 post as law.
you have 47 posts, aside from the huge amount of irony this raises, do you think people should ignore you based of your low post count?
The 1 post count the OP has probably means that he is a regular here who created a new account just to post this. I think that damages his credibility moreso than the actual quantity of posts. He is accusing someone of cheating, he should put his name behind it. He is attacking someone else's reputation, yet he hides his identity so HIS reputation cant be taken into account (or damaged if he's wrong)? This shows a lack of character.
Exactly my thoughts. The OP is a coward.
Why is that a problem? It happens with anonymous tips to newspapers about stories or to the police about crimes all the time? If the option to remain anonymous wouldnt exist, a lot of stuff would never reach the surface. It might be cowardly, but hardly something to get upset over, nor something to take into account when discussing the topic.
Problem is, at least from my point of view, that the OP just made one post and that's it. He hasn't bothered to reply once more in this thread, considering the shitstorm he created, which would be nice. And doesn't the defendant has the right to face his accuser? I would like to hear more from OP and why he created this thread. Was it just to spite Spades or his moral demanded that he does that? If it was moral than it's funny that he used other/new account to do that.
Did you not see all the testaments from the players? did you not see catz, illusion etc do the replay analysis? the evidence is quite obvious, it doesn't matter if the OP doesn't reply to his own thread since already other people have already looked at the situation and replays and have made a general consensus that he did cheat. Any and ALL hacking needs to be taken very seriously, it does not matter if he's being cowardly.
I saw it. And i haven't commented about his innocence/being guilty. And since were mentioning the players analysis, did you not see Nerchio's one? See how it's easy to find the other/opposite side? And it matters to me. If you have the "balls" to call someone out, than you should also have the balls to defend your point and sty in the "argument" 'till the end. Not just make one post and be gone with the wind. I do agree that hacking needs to be taken seriously, but i do also believe that a man should stand behind his actions. If we go by that logic, what prevents me from creating new account, pick one game from, lets say, d.Apollo and accuse him for hacking (Apollo is used just as an example since i watched his stream yesterday and he's the first person i thought of, I'm not claiming that he hacks), and than just leave thread and wallow in all the drama i created. Besides, this is also credibility problem. Someone can get accused because he had bad/dubious past, but we should totally take word from some anonymous. Yes, I saw that the other pros were included now, but as far as I can see they haven't been able to conclude that he is positively, without a doubt hacking. So in this case i would very much like to hear once more from OP, especially since even some pros managed to prove that some of his conclusions were wrong.
Nerchio has been rumoured to be a hacker too so his "analysis" is to be looked at carefully, though
Rofl. Rumors that have NO evidence behind them and you're trying to use it to discredit his analysis
On June 05 2012 10:34 Rowrin wrote: Cant believe there are people questioning Spades credibility and not realizing the contradiction in taking the words of a guy with 1 post as law.
you have 47 posts, aside from the huge amount of irony this raises, do you think people should ignore you based of your low post count?
The 1 post count the OP has probably means that he is a regular here who created a new account just to post this. I think that damages his credibility moreso than the actual quantity of posts. He is accusing someone of cheating, he should put his name behind it. He is attacking someone else's reputation, yet he hides his identity so HIS reputation cant be taken into account (or damaged if he's wrong)? This shows a lack of character.
Exactly my thoughts. The OP is a coward.
Why is that a problem? It happens with anonymous tips to newspapers about stories or to the police about crimes all the time? If the option to remain anonymous wouldnt exist, a lot of stuff would never reach the surface. It might be cowardly, but hardly something to get upset over, nor something to take into account when discussing the topic.
Problem is, at least from my point of view, that the OP just made one post and that's it. He hasn't bothered to reply once more in this thread, considering the shitstorm he created, which would be nice. And doesn't the defendant has the right to face his accuser? I would like to hear more from OP and why he created this thread. Was it just to spite Spades or his moral demanded that he does that? If it was moral than it's funny that he used other/new account to do that.
Did you not see all the testaments from the players? did you not see catz, illusion etc do the replay analysis? the evidence is quite obvious, it doesn't matter if the OP doesn't reply to his own thread since already other people have already looked at the situation and replays and have made a general consensus that he did cheat. Any and ALL hacking needs to be taken very seriously, it does not matter if he's being cowardly.
I saw it. And i haven't commented about his innocence/being guilty. And since were mentioning the players analysis, did you not see Nerchio's one? See how it's easy to find the other/opposite side? And it matters to me. If you have the "balls" to call someone out, than you should also have the balls to defend your point and sty in the "argument" 'till the end. Not just make one post and be gone with the wind. I do agree that hacking needs to be taken seriously, but i do also believe that a man should stand behind his actions. If we go by that logic, what prevents me from creating new account, pick one game from, lets say, d.Apollo and accuse him for hacking (Apollo is used just as an example since i watched his stream yesterday and he's the first person i thought of, I'm not claiming that he hacks), and than just leave thread and wallow in all the drama i created. Besides, this is also credibility problem. Someone can get accused because he had bad/dubious past, but we should totally take word from some anonymous. Yes, I saw that the other pros were included now, but as far as I can see they haven't been able to conclude that he is positively, without a doubt hacking. So in this case i would very much like to hear once more from OP, especially since even some pros managed to prove that some of his conclusions were wrong.
Nerchio has been rumoured to be a hacker too so his "analysis" is to be looked at carefully, though
Stephano similarly was thought to be a maphacker when he first started hitting the scene.
On June 05 2012 10:34 Rowrin wrote: Cant believe there are people questioning Spades credibility and not realizing the contradiction in taking the words of a guy with 1 post as law.
you have 47 posts, aside from the huge amount of irony this raises, do you think people should ignore you based of your low post count?
The 1 post count the OP has probably means that he is a regular here who created a new account just to post this. I think that damages his credibility moreso than the actual quantity of posts. He is accusing someone of cheating, he should put his name behind it. He is attacking someone else's reputation, yet he hides his identity so HIS reputation cant be taken into account (or damaged if he's wrong)? This shows a lack of character.
Exactly my thoughts. The OP is a coward.
Why is that a problem? It happens with anonymous tips to newspapers about stories or to the police about crimes all the time? If the option to remain anonymous wouldnt exist, a lot of stuff would never reach the surface. It might be cowardly, but hardly something to get upset over, nor something to take into account when discussing the topic.
Problem is, at least from my point of view, that the OP just made one post and that's it. He hasn't bothered to reply once more in this thread, considering the shitstorm he created, which would be nice. And doesn't the defendant has the right to face his accuser? I would like to hear more from OP and why he created this thread. Was it just to spite Spades or his moral demanded that he does that? If it was moral than it's funny that he used other/new account to do that.
Did you not see all the testaments from the players? did you not see catz, illusion etc do the replay analysis? the evidence is quite obvious, it doesn't matter if the OP doesn't reply to his own thread since already other people have already looked at the situation and replays and have made a general consensus that he did cheat. Any and ALL hacking needs to be taken very seriously, it does not matter if he's being cowardly.
I saw it. And i haven't commented about his innocence/being guilty. And since were mentioning the players analysis, did you not see Nerchio's one? See how it's easy to find the other/opposite side? And it matters to me. If you have the "balls" to call someone out, than you should also have the balls to defend your point and sty in the "argument" 'till the end. Not just make one post and be gone with the wind. I do agree that hacking needs to be taken seriously, but i do also believe that a man should stand behind his actions. If we go by that logic, what prevents me from creating new account, pick one game from, lets say, d.Apollo and accuse him for hacking (Apollo is used just as an example since i watched his stream yesterday and he's the first person i thought of, I'm not claiming that he hacks), and than just leave thread and wallow in all the drama i created. Besides, this is also credibility problem. Someone can get accused because he had bad/dubious past, but we should totally take word from some anonymous. Yes, I saw that the other pros were included now, but as far as I can see they haven't been able to conclude that he is positively, without a doubt hacking. So in this case i would very much like to hear once more from OP, especially since even some pros managed to prove that some of his conclusions were wrong.
Nerchio has been rumoured to be a hacker too so his "analysis" is to be looked at carefully, though
It's all degenerated into a yes vs no with a few quality posts inbetween.
No-one can ever prove he did it 100% at this point in time.
No-one can ever prove he didn't do it either.
What is the point of arguing over this.
It's spiraling out of control. Someone posts something about Spades hacking, shit gets real.
Someone posts a quote about someone else saying Koreans stream cheat. Korea gets involved.
TL: I didn't think this website was here to sensationalise gossip and hearsay. I have no opinion if he hacked or didn't, or if Koreans stream cheat. I would like to see a collection of information regarding the topic of hackers and cheaters posted on the front page as a news article with interviews/quotes from people within the professional gaming and esports scene. This site is the goto for many many people in regards to starcraft news and esports in general. How would you feel if a thread was opened up on the blizzard site stating that TL was nothing more than a gossip blog?
It's not true, but if it went to 142 pages I'm sure a reputation would be tarnished.
Ok I agree hacking is a serious issue but damn, 142 pages because of Spades? I can't even imagine what this thread would have been like if it were somebody actually well known being accused. Makes me wonder if BW had been as popular as SC2 in the foreign scene how large the Savior matchfixing thread would have been.
EPT
