EPTA cookie for you, sir.
Nom nom nom ^_^
[?] Spades hacking? - Page 115
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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here 10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here. 08:47 KST - Summary: Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) | ||
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Walitgon
Australia550 Posts
A cookie for you, sir. Nom nom nom ^_^ | ||
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magnaflow
Canada1521 Posts
How many more players are doing this but being much more careful. This is bad | ||
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BoZiffer
United States1841 Posts
On June 05 2012 14:39 Valentine wrote: I assume nobody remembers (or was around at all to know) that NaDa used to maphack for quite a while online. Granted, it was for a real-time understanding of various timings, and he played mostly with people he knew (who would probably know he was MHing). Hacking doesn't have to be a big deal; but there's no way in which hacking can help the community as a whole, ever. I was kind of referring to it in the sense of using a method beyond your innate ability to profit from a sport in which the entering argument is that you cannot use 'X'. I.e. baseball players using P.E.D.'s to increase power numbers to sign contracts that they couldn't have achieved without them - or the countless number of marginal players that used them just to STAY in the pro levels - which may be more accurate here. | ||
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Gheed
United States972 Posts
On June 05 2012 14:41 magnaflow wrote: Looks like it is really hard to confirm if someone is hacking, even with all this evidence pointing towards Spades, without a DNA sample he is innocent. (for the record I think he is hacking) How many more players are doing this but being much more careful. This is bad What I personally would be interested in is for an online tournament organizer to take a batch of their replays, scrub the player names from the files, and then pay some pro gamers to sort through them all and see if they think any of them are suspicious. | ||
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j3i
United States357 Posts
On June 05 2012 14:41 magnaflow wrote: Looks like it is really hard to confirm if someone is hacking, even with all this evidence pointing towards Spades, without a DNA sample he is innocent. (for the record I think he is hacking) How many more players are doing this but being much more careful. This is bad "Sorry, Spades, but we need you to ejaculate into this cup while we watch for evidence. Oh, and a tissue sample from the inside of your mouth." User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
However, I think now that Catz and Drewbie has basically used this e-drama to boost his stream numbers, maybe he should do the courtesy of posting 50 of HIS replays for analysis. I'm sure we could find plenty of instances were Catz benefitted from a blind counter, random/lucky scouting, or an oddball cheese that would fail in most circumstances. I don't think Catz is a stream cheater, but I do think there is a certain kind/style of player that relies more on activity, instinct, 'loose' play and luck than careful planning, strategy or even logical decision making. Starcraft is a fast game, like speed chess, and it's easy to analyze a replay and find decisions that 'don't make sense' but still lead to success. BTW, last week I saw Nestea intercept a hit squad of lings, without the benefit of vision or proper scouting. Is he a stream cheater or hacker too? | ||
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naux
Canada738 Posts
On June 05 2012 14:31 Achilles17 wrote: It's sad that you think hacking/cheating is okay. Talk about being part of the problem. Should i be part of the system to throw people under the bus? I use to hack in CS 1.6 in pubs, never matches and scrims but i knew players who done it. They use to be part of complexity should i start naming there names? | ||
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NotR
17 Posts
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VTArlock
United States1763 Posts
I have just gotten home (extremely late 10:40 pm PST) and I have still not watched the replays even though I intend on doing it tomorrow morning. I have to say, and I'm sure most of you would agree with me; that if someone made such a LARGE accusation on my stature they should let their identity be known and not hide behind an alias. An anonymous tip wouldn't get anyone into supreme court. Team Liquid I feel that in a large community issue like this you should step up and take the reigns. Be the voice of reason everyone wants. I personally would accept any verdict TL decided. My opinion: The only person who could have looked into this with enough detail would be someone from Spades or Lucifron's Team. The replays weren't released otherwise (were they?). It is so cowardly to throw someone under the bus like this and not take any responsibility of your own. Whether or not Spades hacked this promotional event, you "drolets" are in the wrong and handled this situation terribly bad. | ||
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m2e
United States108 Posts
On June 05 2012 14:34 las91 wrote: My post was saying read the thread and look at the evidence yourself before posting, and that's it. Evidence? All I see is speculation from both sides. Theres a HUGE difference between evidence which would basically end this thread as far as us knowing the truth and speculation (which is the reason why it's still going). I have no stance in this issue. I am not for or against Spades and I do not know what really occurs while he plays games without being under the microscope of a stream and neither does ANYONE else except Spades. If he hacked then he deserves the full wrath of this community and if he didn't his career is possibly ruined anyway just because of the allegations. The only thing I (and possibly others) would of liked to have seen is ONE HUNDRED PERCENT solid evidence that Spades did (or still does) hack before creating a thread which is going to receieve as much attention as this one and put a player in such a negative spotlight. We love to believe that it's "innocent until proven guilty" but many people believe otherwise and will simply consider someone guilty until proof is posted that says otherwise and that's what seems to be going on in this thread from my personal point of view. On June 05 2012 14:37 Gheed wrote: Perhaps the poster does not think it his job to be judge and jury for this? He was only expressing his hope that Spades is not being wrongfully accused (and convicted). I think we should all hope that. Exactly. I along with many people in here (even though they believe otherwise) do not have the knowledge or skillset to judge a "professional" player and their ingame actions and movements in correlation with those of a maphacker or cheater. I am simply posting my personal opinion in regards to what is probably going to happen to this player if this turns out to be a major misunderstanding. | ||
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kalteras
United States72 Posts
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fatalfirecrotch
13 Posts
On June 05 2012 14:44 Defacer wrote: I missed the analysis of Catz, unfortunately ... However, I think now that Catz and Drewbie has basically used this e-drama to boost his stream numbers, maybe he should do the courtesy of posting 50 of HIS replays for analysis. I'm sure we could find plenty of instances were Catz benefitted from a blind counter, random/lucky scouting, or an oddball cheese that would fail in most circumstances. I don't think Catz is a stream cheater, but I do think there is a certain kind/style of player that relies more on activity, instinct, 'loose' play and luck than careful planning, strategy or even logical decision making. Starcraft is a fast game, like speed chess, and it's easy to analyze a replay and find decisions that 'don't make sense' but still lead to success. BTW, last week I saw Nestea intercept a hit squad of lings, without the benefit of vision or proper scouting. Is he a stream cheater or hacker too? They didn't run a single replay so there was no money to be made. | ||
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-Kaiser-
Canada932 Posts
On June 05 2012 14:45 naux wrote: Should i be part of the system to throw people under the bus? I use to hack in CS 1.6 in pubs, never matches and scrims but i knew players who done it. They use to be part of complexity should i start naming there names? Go for it. Transparency. LET LOOSE THE DOGS OF WAR. | ||
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solidbebe
Netherlands4921 Posts
On June 05 2012 14:45 naux wrote: Should i be part of the system to throw people under the bus? I use to hack in CS 1.6 in pubs, never matches and scrims but i knew players who done it. They use to be part of complexity should i start naming there names? These are tournaments for real life money, do you really want people hacking in that kind of stuff? | ||
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ImNightmare
1575 Posts
On June 05 2012 14:44 Defacer wrote: I missed the analysis of Catz, unfortunately ... However, I think now that Catz and Drewbie has basically used this e-drama to boost his stream numbers, maybe he should do the courtesy of posting 50 of HIS replays for analysis. I'm sure we could find plenty of instances were Catz benefitted from a blind counter, random/lucky scouting, or an oddball cheese that would fail in most circumstances. I don't think Catz is a stream cheater, but I do think there is a certain kind/style of player that relies more on activity, instinct, 'loose' play and luck than careful planning, strategy or even logical decision making. Starcraft is a fast game, like speed chess, and it's easy to analyze a replay and find decisions that 'don't make sense' but still lead to success. BTW, last week I saw Nestea intercept a hit squad of lings, without the benefit of vision or proper scouting. Is he a stream cheater or hacker too? Depends, first you need to get a Vod, than you need to scout if he sees anything. Don't forget, he was the man who predicted 2 rax all ins from marineking and went pool first when some terrans went proxy 2 rax in a gsl last year. But he might be stream cheating since he seems to be getting old, probably needs map hack too. Yes, I am being sarcastic | ||
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Aerisky
United States12129 Posts
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IcedBacon
Canada906 Posts
On June 05 2012 14:44 Defacer wrote: I missed the analysis of Catz, unfortunately ... However, I think now that Catz and Drewbie has basically used this e-drama to boost his stream numbers, maybe he should do the courtesy of posting 50 of HIS replays for analysis. I'm sure we could find plenty of instances were Catz benefitted from a blind counter, random/lucky scouting, or an oddball cheese that would fail in most circumstances. I don't think Catz is a stream cheater, but I do think there is a certain kind/style of player that relies more on activity, instinct, 'loose' play and luck than careful planning, strategy or even logical decision making. Starcraft is a fast game, like speed chess, and it's easy to analyze a replay and find decisions that 'don't make sense' but still lead to success. BTW, last week I saw Nestea intercept a hit squad of lings, without the benefit of vision or proper scouting. Is he a stream cheater or hacker too? His sketchy tactical plays isn't even the bulk of the argument, it's the fog of war issues. Korean progamers who have proven themselves playing on different computers in booths is an entirely different matter. | ||
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Achilles17
United States111 Posts
On June 05 2012 14:44 Defacer wrote: I missed the analysis of Catz, unfortunately ... However, I think now that Catz and Drewbie has basically used this e-drama to boost his stream numbers, maybe he should do the courtesy of posting 50 of HIS replays for analysis. I'm sure we could find plenty of instances were Catz benefitted from a blind counter, random/lucky scouting, or an oddball cheese that would fail in most circumstances. I don't think Catz is a stream cheater, but I do think there is a certain kind/style of player that relies more on activity, instinct, 'loose' play and luck than careful planning, strategy or even logical decision making. Starcraft is a fast game, like speed chess, and it's easy to analyze a replay and find decisions that 'don't make sense' but still lead to success. BTW, last week I saw Nestea intercept a hit squad of lings, without the benefit of vision or proper scouting. Is he a stream cheater or hacker too? Here's the vod if you want to watch it. http://www.twitch.tv/rootcatz/b/320407912 | ||
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Derpmallow
United States33 Posts
On June 05 2012 14:44 Defacer wrote: I missed the analysis of Catz, unfortunately ... However, I think now that Catz and Drewbie has basically used this e-drama to boost his stream numbers, maybe he should do the courtesy of posting 50 of HIS replays for analysis. I'm sure we could find plenty of instances were Catz benefitted from a blind counter, random/lucky scouting, or an oddball cheese that would fail in most circumstances. I don't think Catz is a stream cheater, but I do think there is a certain kind/style of player that relies more on activity, instinct, 'loose' play and luck than careful planning, strategy or even logical decision making. Starcraft is a fast game, like speed chess, and it's easy to analyze a replay and find decisions that 'don't make sense' but still lead to success. BTW, last week I saw Nestea intercept a hit squad of lings, without the benefit of vision or proper scouting. Is he a stream cheater or hacker too? That's a load of bullshit, no insult. This was a set of seven concurrent games against a single opponent that had constant 'lucky moves'. That's far more suspicious than a large set of random ladder matches having similarly lucky moves spread out. While I do think the casting of this was unnecessary, the biggest point was that he played in a way he normally doesn't, even if that doesn't mean we should be burning him at the stake. Also there's that whole 'Korean players cheat all the time' drama. Fuck, I love esports. | ||
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ChrysaliS_
United States261 Posts
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