[?] Spades hacking? - Page 117

On June 05 2012 14:54 Diizzy wrote:
yea a guy maphacking lost a show match when they are about evenly skill wise. maphack wouldve put spades in a huge advantage.this doesnt make sense. i stand by spades. <3

On June 05 2012 14:56 HaruRH wrote:
After reading the whole thread, watching those replays myself and watching those replays again from CatZ's stream, here are my two cents on this matter. Take it with a pinch of salt. It is an opinion after all.

First off, all CatZ and co. ever did was to fuel more discussion in this thread. It seemed like they prepared all the notes that signifies certain timing where Spades seemed like hacking. From my point of view, everything Spades did was justifiable. For example, the entombed valley game where Spades was allegedly hacking. Magic scans, spot on movements to tip of natural, stimming the marines back etc. To be very honest, everyone prepares for a showmatch. EVERYONE. It simply no surprise that Spades might have taken some time analysing the strategies and moves that lucifron would do. He might have planned a build that counters lucifrons, and he might be certain that he would use such a build against him that game. Therefore, his only information he would need would be to find his base.

Next, they claimed Spades to have 'Flash senses' when he moved his tanks to the bottom of his nat. At this point of time, he had the middle watchtower. Therefore, it was right to only claim that his move was clever, as lucifron could only attack from that angle. Marines at his nat in case of drops. Sounds reasonable to me.

Lastly, those 'suspicious' marine stims. I have seen it many, many times in GSL games. They stim within some distance to kill vikings and run away to avoid tanks. Except, those tanks were positioned too far back. And, it is pretty obvious that lucifron seiges up when he saw Spade's marines. That doom drop and the 'magic scan' was probably due to nerves. If you have seen his other games, he would usually scan the area he stims into. Similarly, he did that. However, he only didn't look at it this time.

CatZ's stream felt very biased. It seemed like they were certain he wad hacking, as they were throwing some words around, giving people an idea that he really hacked. However, the only significant proof over here is that he did not look into the fog of war at any time, unlike his usual ladder games. This is the only suspicious area I could find. The rest could be debunked really easily.

I totally disprove of such a method for weeding out hackers/cheaters even if they did it. The consequences are very dire as their reputation will be totally tarnished. They will always be referred as cheaters, hackers or whatnot. Even if they were proven innocent,there will be no way they could come back as people would always refer them as suspected cheaters. This got to stop. TL miss should ban anyone making a din over here, as the consequences are very dire. Similar to how you will be outcasted from society as long as you had served jail sentence, but was proven innocent in the end.

On June 05 2012 14:53 McFeser wrote:

I don't think anyone is going to agree with your silly arguments. Nobody likes streamcheaters. Nobody like hackers. It's not that complex.

On June 05 2012 15:03 roymarthyup wrote:



i actually am probably in the extreme minority here but i highly encourage hacking


im trying to go pro and im high masters and i actually think i would get better practice if i practiced in a real ladder scenario against really good maphackers

maphacks cannot translate into yournament play, so if i DONT maphack, but lots of people on the ladder DO maphack, then all it does is it improved my training and then essentially its like im training in the hyperbolic time chamber in dragonball z and my training is more efficient than my opponents training as long as i learn from the games knowing i was playing at a handicap

then my pure skill will increase and in a tournament setting I will perform at a much higher level


I know its strange logic but i have no problem with people cheating in a ladder scenario where theres nothing on the line other than your own quality practice and since im high masters i would only be playing against the best hackers getting in good practice.

heck i wouldnt even mind if i could play with a self-induced handicap of say 20% hp or something


actually in my ladder games i occasionally will suicide my own units and kill 20-30 of my own food before the battle just to give myself a handicap because i think it improved the quality of my training

On June 05 2012 15:03 roymarthyup wrote:



i actually am probably in the extreme minority here but i highly encourage hacking


im trying to go pro and im high masters and i actually think i would get better practice if i practiced in a real ladder scenario against really good maphackers

maphacks cannot translate into yournament play, so if i DONT maphack, but lots of people on the ladder DO maphack, then all it does is it improved my training and then essentially its like im training in the hyperbolic time chamber in dragonball z and my training is more efficient than my opponents training as long as i learn from the games knowing i was playing at a handicap

then my pure skill will increase and in a tournament setting I will perform at a much higher level


I know its strange logic but i have no problem with people cheating in a ladder scenario where theres nothing on the line other than your own quality practice and since im high masters i would only be playing against the best hackers getting in good practice.

heck i wouldnt even mind if i could play with a self-induced handicap of say 20% hp or something


actually in my ladder games i occasionally will suicide my own units and kill 20-30 of my own food before the battle just to give myself a handicap because i think it improved the quality of my training

On June 05 2012 14:18 ETisME wrote:

the hunt hasn't started.
no one emailed sponsor or anything

we are just discussing the validity of the hack and whether it is true or not.

On June 05 2012 14:56 HaruRH wrote:
CatZ's stream felt very biased. It seemed like they were certain he wad hacking, as they were throwing some words around, giving people an idea that he really hacked. However, the only significant proof over here is that he did not look into the fog of war at any time, unlike his usual ladder games. This is the only suspicious area I could find. The rest could be debunked really easily.

On June 05 2012 15:06 HansK wrote:
I'm curious and with out reading 40 pages, did Spades ever come up with a response to the following:

1. Sending his scouting SCV inside the base with out ever even once looking at the SCV to see any buildings(no pro ever ever does this) etc in the games he's accused of hacking in, how ever in his ladder games he always looks at it 100% of the time.

2. He never _once_ even one time looks through the fog of war to do anything in the accused hacking games[presumably due to camera lock hack]. In his games on ladder he does it several times all game every game.

3. Does scans and never looks at what he scans(lol?), and scans one game before he even knows where his enemys base is[just so happens in the perfect location too].. He also scans at spots where it's next to impossible to scan.


Those are the major three made me really think he hacks, even more so when compared to his other games.. other than those there are dozens of things that look odd such as changing his army position perfectly regularly with no scout.

maphacks cannot translate into yournament play, so if i DONT maphack, but lots of people on the ladder DO maphack, then all it does is it improved my training and then essentially its like im training in the hyperbolic time chamber in dragonball z and my training is more efficient than my opponents training as long as i learn from the games knowing i was playing at a handicap

On June 05 2012 15:03 Achilles17 wrote:



I would love to hear your two cents about him never looking into the Fog of War during the bo7 series, but in every single replay he gave on the ladder he looks into the Fog of War before giving a command multiple times a game.

Oh yea and this "explain how in season 5 he completely fell out of GM to mid masters and then in season 6 he became #1 in NA."

On June 05 2012 15:03 dvorakftw wrote:
I watched the CatZ/Illusion stream and there was so much crosstalk, jumping in time, switching views, etc. that the majority of it was not useful or counterproductive. For example a big deal was made about 32:50 on Tal'darim but if you actually watch the game LucifroN drops that same spot four different times earlier in the game and at 32:21 a scan catches blue in that location.

What I think would be best at this point is just one person doing a 15 minute presentation, show just the 3 best pieces of evidence first showing Spades view and then reshow the same time period with full vision. There are 3 or 4 things I find convincing but they were mixed in with twice as many complaints I didn't find convincing. They all seemed to think it made their case stronger but I think it is the opposite.

On June 05 2012 15:07 CursivE wrote:


Please, by all means, if it's that easy, then debunk away and end all of this.

Nothing is more annoying than when people make sweeping statements like this.

I'm looking at this on the balance of probabilities and if this was a court of law, he would be convicted.

On June 05 2012 15:08 Gheed wrote:


That would greatly depend on the quality of his lawyer, lol.