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Terran has the highest skill ceiling thats why you see so many koreans play as those races. But blizzard thinks because the best players in the world are terrans means that terran is imba. They make the race look imba by sick micro because remember terran has the highest skill ceiling. So if you are looking to be amazing at the game why wouldnt you play terran. But the fact that they are nerfing terran because of this simple fact is just stupid. Not everyone on the ladder can split their armies and kite like MKP. So when you nerf Terran you are nerfing it because the best players make it look good.
Terran imo is a much harder race to play than zerg. I used to be a Zerg. The reason why I switched is because Terrans mechanics fit my playstyle much better than zerg did, and not to mention I got sick of ZvP where protoss rapes your army because of forcefields. I think the major balancing issue with the game are HT and FF's. As a Zerg you sometimes feel helpless against protoss FF even when you catch them off guard.
In my opinion I think the way they can balance the game and make more strategies for Terran and Zerg against protoss. Is make FF cost 50 energy. And reduce the damage from Storm also make feedback not work against massive units OR have a max amount of damage it can deal. That will give thors and BC's to show their face in that match up. Not to mention HT have the most killing power of any casting unit. Going into an engagement as a Terran against Toss you want to have your ghost at full energy so you can get off the necessary EMP's to stop the protoss army from craping on your face. If landing a feed back on the ghosts you are killing them instantly. Even if ghosts have half full energy they are dead. Also going against Zealot Archon build which 95% of protoss's do late game against terran. So as a terran in order to have a decent amount of counter dps to counter act the zealots dps an average terran will a decent amount of marines and this is where the HT come into play. HT will deal 80 damage with storms. Marines max health is only 55 health so when you have something that can kill an entire unit by using 1 75 energy storm you are destroying the only thing stopping the zealots. Now you have marauders with 45 health left now and zealot dps is 20. So within a matter of 10 game seconds a terran is completely gone. With no way to defend itself because the protoss army pretty much went untouched. All protoss needs in order to win a game is to have 1 engagement in which they are mildly prepared for and also pending on the map of course but basically one. As a Terran or zerg it takes multiple engagements continually nitpicking at the Protoss in order to make a dent so that you can step on their throat and win the game.
My ways to fix the balance:
HT feedback does 50% less damage. So when they come across a 100 energy ghost and they feed back it. It will only take 50 health.It can still drain all of their energy!
Also storm damage reduced from 80 to 50. I dont believe any casting unit should have the ability to kill any unit with just 1 cast of something. And since EMP is a non killing cast and fungal growth only does 30 damage(36 against armored) I believe that these changes are fair and reasonable.
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On May 14 2012 23:57 lamiller wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Terran has the highest skill ceiling thats why you see so many koreans play as those races. But blizzard thinks because the best players in the world are terrans means that terran is imba. They make the race look imba by sick micro because remember terran has the highest skill ceiling. So if you are looking to be amazing at the game why wouldnt you play terran. But the fact that they are nerfing terran because of this simple fact is just stupid. Not everyone on the ladder can split their armies and kite like MKP. So when you nerf Terran you are nerfing it because the best players make it look good.
Terran imo is a much harder race to play than zerg. I used to be a Zerg. The reason why I switched is because Terrans mechanics fit my playstyle much better than zerg did, and not to mention I got sick of ZvP where protoss rapes your army because of forcefields. I think the major balancing issue with the game are HT and FF's. As a Zerg you sometimes feel helpless against protoss FF even when you catch them off guard.
In my opinion I think the way they can balance the game and make more strategies for Terran and Zerg against protoss. Is make FF cost 50 energy. And reduce the damage from Storm also make feedback not work against massive units OR have a max amount of damage it can deal. That will give thors and BC's to show their face in that match up. Not to mention HT have the most killing power of any casting unit. Going into an engagement as a Terran against Toss you want to have your ghost at full energy so you can get off the necessary EMP's to stop the protoss army from craping on your face. If landing a feed back on the ghosts you are killing them instantly. Even if ghosts have half full energy they are dead. Also going against Zealot Archon build which 95% of protoss's do late game against terran. So as a terran in order to have a decent amount of counter dps to counter act the zealots dps an average terran will a decent amount of marines and this is where the HT come into play. HT will deal 80 damage with storms. Marines max health is only 55 health so when you have something that can kill an entire unit by using 1 75 energy storm you are destroying the only thing stopping the zealots. Now you have marauders with 45 health left now and zealot dps is 20. So within a matter of 10 game seconds a terran is completely gone. With no way to defend itself because the protoss army pretty much went untouched. All protoss needs in order to win a game is to have 1 engagement in which they are mildly prepared for and also pending on the map of course but basically one. As a Terran or zerg it takes multiple engagements continually nitpicking at the Protoss in order to make a dent so that you can step on their throat and win the game.
My ways to fix the balance:
Sentry FF costs 50 energy instead of 25.
HT feedback does 50% less damage. So when they come across a 100 energy ghost and they feed back it. It will only take 50 health.It can still drain all of their energy!
Also storm damage reduced from 80 to 50. I dont believe any casting unit should have the ability to kill any unit with just 1 cast of something. And since EMP is a non killing cast and fungal growth only does 30 damage(36 against armored) I believe that these changes are fair and reasonable.
Sentry FF already costs 50 energy. Did you really think it was 25 energy?
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I was misinformed thank you for pointing that out!
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On May 14 2012 23:59 Onecron wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2012 23:57 lamiller wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Terran has the highest skill ceiling thats why you see so many koreans play as those races. But blizzard thinks because the best players in the world are terrans means that terran is imba. They make the race look imba by sick micro because remember terran has the highest skill ceiling. So if you are looking to be amazing at the game why wouldnt you play terran. But the fact that they are nerfing terran because of this simple fact is just stupid. Not everyone on the ladder can split their armies and kite like MKP. So when you nerf Terran you are nerfing it because the best players make it look good.
Terran imo is a much harder race to play than zerg. I used to be a Zerg. The reason why I switched is because Terrans mechanics fit my playstyle much better than zerg did, and not to mention I got sick of ZvP where protoss rapes your army because of forcefields. I think the major balancing issue with the game are HT and FF's. As a Zerg you sometimes feel helpless against protoss FF even when you catch them off guard.
In my opinion I think the way they can balance the game and make more strategies for Terran and Zerg against protoss. Is make FF cost 50 energy. And reduce the damage from Storm also make feedback not work against massive units OR have a max amount of damage it can deal. That will give thors and BC's to show their face in that match up. Not to mention HT have the most killing power of any casting unit. Going into an engagement as a Terran against Toss you want to have your ghost at full energy so you can get off the necessary EMP's to stop the protoss army from craping on your face. If landing a feed back on the ghosts you are killing them instantly. Even if ghosts have half full energy they are dead. Also going against Zealot Archon build which 95% of protoss's do late game against terran. So as a terran in order to have a decent amount of counter dps to counter act the zealots dps an average terran will a decent amount of marines and this is where the HT come into play. HT will deal 80 damage with storms. Marines max health is only 55 health so when you have something that can kill an entire unit by using 1 75 energy storm you are destroying the only thing stopping the zealots. Now you have marauders with 45 health left now and zealot dps is 20. So within a matter of 10 game seconds a terran is completely gone. With no way to defend itself because the protoss army pretty much went untouched. All protoss needs in order to win a game is to have 1 engagement in which they are mildly prepared for and also pending on the map of course but basically one. As a Terran or zerg it takes multiple engagements continually nitpicking at the Protoss in order to make a dent so that you can step on their throat and win the game.
My ways to fix the balance:
Sentry FF costs 50 energy instead of 25.
HT feedback does 50% less damage. So when they come across a 100 energy ghost and they feed back it. It will only take 50 health.It can still drain all of their energy!
Also storm damage reduced from 80 to 50. I dont believe any casting unit should have the ability to kill any unit with just 1 cast of something. And since EMP is a non killing cast and fungal growth only does 30 damage(36 against armored) I believe that these changes are fair and reasonable. Sentry FF already costs 50 energy. Did you really think it was 25 energy?
That kind of says it all about how clueless these whiners are.
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On May 15 2012 00:02 tomatriedes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2012 23:59 Onecron wrote:On May 14 2012 23:57 lamiller wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Terran has the highest skill ceiling thats why you see so many koreans play as those races. But blizzard thinks because the best players in the world are terrans means that terran is imba. They make the race look imba by sick micro because remember terran has the highest skill ceiling. So if you are looking to be amazing at the game why wouldnt you play terran. But the fact that they are nerfing terran because of this simple fact is just stupid. Not everyone on the ladder can split their armies and kite like MKP. So when you nerf Terran you are nerfing it because the best players make it look good.
Terran imo is a much harder race to play than zerg. I used to be a Zerg. The reason why I switched is because Terrans mechanics fit my playstyle much better than zerg did, and not to mention I got sick of ZvP where protoss rapes your army because of forcefields. I think the major balancing issue with the game are HT and FF's. As a Zerg you sometimes feel helpless against protoss FF even when you catch them off guard.
In my opinion I think the way they can balance the game and make more strategies for Terran and Zerg against protoss. Is make FF cost 50 energy. And reduce the damage from Storm also make feedback not work against massive units OR have a max amount of damage it can deal. That will give thors and BC's to show their face in that match up. Not to mention HT have the most killing power of any casting unit. Going into an engagement as a Terran against Toss you want to have your ghost at full energy so you can get off the necessary EMP's to stop the protoss army from craping on your face. If landing a feed back on the ghosts you are killing them instantly. Even if ghosts have half full energy they are dead. Also going against Zealot Archon build which 95% of protoss's do late game against terran. So as a terran in order to have a decent amount of counter dps to counter act the zealots dps an average terran will a decent amount of marines and this is where the HT come into play. HT will deal 80 damage with storms. Marines max health is only 55 health so when you have something that can kill an entire unit by using 1 75 energy storm you are destroying the only thing stopping the zealots. Now you have marauders with 45 health left now and zealot dps is 20. So within a matter of 10 game seconds a terran is completely gone. With no way to defend itself because the protoss army pretty much went untouched. All protoss needs in order to win a game is to have 1 engagement in which they are mildly prepared for and also pending on the map of course but basically one. As a Terran or zerg it takes multiple engagements continually nitpicking at the Protoss in order to make a dent so that you can step on their throat and win the game.
My ways to fix the balance:
Sentry FF costs 50 energy instead of 25.
HT feedback does 50% less damage. So when they come across a 100 energy ghost and they feed back it. It will only take 50 health.It can still drain all of their energy!
Also storm damage reduced from 80 to 50. I dont believe any casting unit should have the ability to kill any unit with just 1 cast of something. And since EMP is a non killing cast and fungal growth only does 30 damage(36 against armored) I believe that these changes are fair and reasonable. Sentry FF already costs 50 energy. Did you really think it was 25 energy? That kind of says it all about how clueless these whiners are.
I believe my description of the current TvP late game is pretty dead on
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I think sentries should start with less energy or generate it slower but i also think that 3/3 stimmed bio deals too much dmg, so maybe a lil stim nerf
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On May 15 2012 00:04 Skaminator wrote:
I think sentries should start with less energy or generate it slower but i also think that 3/3 stimmed bio deals too much dmg, so maybe a lil stim nerf
I think sentries should start with some energy because they are so expensive when it comes to gas to where they need to be able to use a FF right away. I would reduce the range on it instead of changing the amount of energy.
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Also stim is strong for a reason. Not to mention it takes out much needed health off of marines and marauders in a TvP engagement. I think there is a balanced trade off.
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On May 14 2012 23:57 lamiller wrote:
Terran has the highest skill ceiling thats why you see so many koreans play as those races.
Everyone thinks their own race has the highest skill cap. You do realize many Koreans play as Protoss and Zerg as well?
Not everyone on the ladder can split their armies and kite like MKP.
And not everyone can micro their stalkers like Parting.
I could rewrite your whole post from a Zerg or Protoss perspective and it would sound pretty much the same.
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I'm just talking about serious balance fixes. If you want to nerf something then lets discuss it. If we think things are imba lets come up with fixes. And lets post why this is a bad thing or why it could be a viable solution
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On May 15 2012 00:08 starfries wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2012 23:57 lamiller wrote:
Terran has the highest skill ceiling thats why you see so many koreans play as those races.
Everyone thinks their own race has the highest skill cap. You do realize many Koreans play as Protoss and Zerg as well? And not everyone can micro their stalkers like Parting. I could rewrite your whole post from a Zerg or Protoss perspective and it would sound pretty much the same.
In TvP late game stalkers are almost non-exsistent late game so you wouldnt see any blink micro like Parting. Sorry. Please rewrite my whole post. If anything I was showing bias to zerg and terran not just to terran. And not to mention everyone who knows something about the game knows that Terran has the highest skill cap
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Protoss nerfes you're describing are interesting, but the way you're disregarding its' influence on PvZ is mind blowing. If you're going to whine, at least think for a moment of the impact on other matchups instead of writing whatever ideas you have.
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Don't understand why people think complaining about balance and improving are mutually exclusive; they're not. Flash has said Protoss has a slight advantage vs Terran in Brood War interviews too, and it would be a massive understatement to say he's still good at the matchup. Also Boxer was one of the first to say there was a T>Z>P>T balance triangle in BW, but as you said Boxer did well too.
Obviously Sc2 is a new game, and it would be incredibly naiive to believe it was perfectly balanced. Plus some things are clearly unfair or require too much of a skill gap to compensate for. with your reasoning 5 rax reapers would still be around
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On May 15 2012 00:24 Deimos0 wrote:
Protoss nerfes you're describing are interesting, but the way you're disregarding its' influence on PvZ is mind blowing. If you're going to whine, at least think for a moment of the impact on other matchups instead of writing whatever ideas you have.
Disregarding what? If you want me to talk about the affect of HT nerf in ZvP I'll talk about that. I just didnt want to have a 3 page long post
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Although I really don't think switching races is the solution,
Lamiller should try it, should'nt be too hard as looking at his analysis (HT are the problem) he can't be higher then plat.
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Like Scootaloo said, try race switching to toss for a moment. Then watch yourself get stomped by terran players. Hey, now terran is imba! Let's remove stimpack because it kills my army so quickly! Please. Your suggestions are laughable. How about you think for a moment before posting a 2 page long rant.
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On May 15 2012 00:11 lamiller wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 00:08 starfries wrote:On May 14 2012 23:57 lamiller wrote:
Terran has the highest skill ceiling thats why you see so many koreans play as those races.
Everyone thinks their own race has the highest skill cap. You do realize many Koreans play as Protoss and Zerg as well?
Not everyone on the ladder can split their armies and kite like MKP.
And not everyone can micro their stalkers like Parting. I could rewrite your whole post from a Zerg or Protoss perspective and it would sound pretty much the same. In TvP late game stalkers are almost non-exsistent late game so you wouldnt see any blink micro like Parting. Sorry. Please rewrite my whole post. If anything I was showing bias to zerg and terran not just to terran. And not to mention everyone who knows something about the game knows that Terran has the highest skill cap
You know, do date, I have not heard a single pro worth listening to say that. Many of them know quite a bit about the game and very few of them are saying that terran has the highest skill cap.
And what does that even mean? If it one of those phrases people throw around on TL, but never really back up with any facts. Is skill cap based on the number of repeated actions a race requires to be effective? Or can it be bases on the difficulty of scouting and decision making? Want if a race does not require a large number of repeated actions, but 5 or 6 really precise actions at a specific moment? What about remembering to do an 1-8 repeated actions every 45 seconds, even in the middle of a massive battle?
Skill cap is one of those things that changes depending on who is argueing and what point they are trying to make.
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Best part is his last paragraph where he advocates making storm 50 damage because otherwise it's imbalanced compared to FG and EMP, completely forgetting that storm doesn't impair movement or drain mana.
Although calling feedback overpowered probably made me laugh the hardest, looks like someone is terrible with ghosts.
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On May 15 2012 02:14 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2012 00:11 lamiller wrote:On May 15 2012 00:08 starfries wrote:On May 14 2012 23:57 lamiller wrote:
Terran has the highest skill ceiling thats why you see so many koreans play as those races.
Everyone thinks their own race has the highest skill cap. You do realize many Koreans play as Protoss and Zerg as well?
Not everyone on the ladder can split their armies and kite like MKP.
And not everyone can micro their stalkers like Parting. I could rewrite your whole post from a Zerg or Protoss perspective and it would sound pretty much the same. In TvP late game stalkers are almost non-exsistent late game so you wouldnt see any blink micro like Parting. Sorry. Please rewrite my whole post. If anything I was showing bias to zerg and terran not just to terran. And not to mention everyone who knows something about the game knows that Terran has the highest skill cap You know, do date, I have not heard a single pro worth listening to say that. Many of them know quite a bit about the game and very few of them are saying that terran has the highest skill cap. And what does that even mean? If it one of those phrases people throw around on TL, but never really back up with any facts. Is skill cap based on the number of repeated actions a race requires to be effective? Or can it be bases on the difficulty of scouting and decision making? Want if a race does not require a large number of repeated actions, but 5 or 6 really precise actions at a specific moment? What about remembering to do an 1-8 repeated actions every 45 seconds, even in the middle of a massive battle? Skill cap is one of those things that changes depending on who is argueing and what point they are trying to make.
Agreed. Skill cap is one of those fantasies that people come up with. The skill cap for any race hasn't been reached by any player, and will never be. If you think marine splits are difficult, try spreading creep for the entire game, while ensuring that your macro doesn't slip.
On May 15 2012 02:16 Scootaloo wrote:
Best part is his last paragraph where he advocates making storm 50 damage because otherwise it's imbalanced compared to FG and EMP, completely forgetting that storm doesn't impair movement or drain mana.
Although calling feedback overpowered probably made me laugh the hardest, looks like someone is terrible with ghosts.
It's just balance whine in the wrong thread. HTs are fine. Do you know what would make HTs overpowered?
High Templar movement speed increased from 1.875 to 2.25.
Oh wait. That's the same speed as ghosts.
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On May 15 2012 00:27 TheSubtleArt wrote:
Obviously Sc2 is a new game, and it would be incredibly naiive to believe it was perfectly balanced. Plus some things are clearly unfair or require too much of a skill gap to compensate for. with your reasoning 5 rax reapers would still be around
how can a game be perfectly balanced, when not all strategies are explored yet.
Hell Terran race almost completely refuse to play anykind of mech.
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EPT
