EPTOur Misguided Quest for Perfect Balance - Page 10
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freetgy
1720 Posts
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CyDe
United States1010 Posts
On May 15 2012 02:24 freetgy wrote: how can a game be perfectly balanced, when not all strategies are explored yet. Hell Terran race almost completely refuse to play anykind of mech. There might be a reason for that. And anyway, I see mech all the time, just not in TvP, because it is just too hard to pull off. You have to rely too much on the Protoss making many mistakes. | ||
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freetgy
1720 Posts
On May 15 2012 02:29 CyDe wrote: There might be a reason for that. And anyway, I see mech all the time, just not in TvP, because it is just too hard to pull off. You have to rely too much on the Protoss making many mistakes. yeah and there was a reason for zerg one year ago to say Zerg T3 is absolute trash and not worth getting, and still we are here and both T3 is used + infestors. Thats actually one of those things protoss players were doing better then both Terran and Zerg. Protoss players as far as i could tell from the beginning were using almost every unit in their arsenal to become more cost effective, because gateway units sucked so much. Even carriers are used despite beeing such a bad unit in design, when it is feasible to transition into them safely. | ||
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Heh_
Singapore2712 Posts
On May 15 2012 02:24 freetgy wrote: how can a game be perfectly balanced, when not all strategies are explored yet. Hell Terran race almost completely refuse to play anykind of mech. If you're talking about going mech in TvP, many people have tried it. The pros quickly realized that it didn't work, and stopped doing it. The wannabes are still trying because they think that mech is unexplored (because pros aren't using it) and don't seem to realize that it doesn't work. | ||
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Irre
United States646 Posts
on his stream the other day  | ||
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radscorpion9
Canada2252 Posts
But it can be constructive for normal players to complain about balance too, if they argue with good facts and reasoning. If they never say anything then they can't learn other people's opinions on it or how they could counter. Also there may be some things that pro-players miss, which the community can bring to light and become noticed by pro-gamers, which in turn could turn out to be a balance issue to be dealt with. I don't like this idea of never complaining about balance...its a pretty obvious factor in how the game plays out, and no one should only see things with one eye and ignore this other half that could turn out to be a problem, even if its unlikely at this point. I think the only relevant aspect is that people who do feel inclined to complain about balance do it thoroughly and think carefully about it. Because it may be that through skill or some other factor that the true unbalance of the game might be mitigated...but that it otherwise could play a real role. You can't always assume the "metagame" (using the incorrect definition) will solve all your problems, because that's like a blind faith. If there are problems that you see then people should point them out as clearly as possible, otherwise no one will be able to work on it in a coordinated way with others. That said you can do more than one thing at a time. People can point out what they see as unbalanced situations but simultaneously work on finding ways to win against that strategy. Its only the people that dwell on potential balance issues and never make an effort to get better themselves that are problematic. | ||
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Poetic[AoV]
United Kingdom183 Posts
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Aeroplaneoverthesea
United Kingdom1977 Posts
On May 15 2012 02:35 Heh_ wrote: If you're talking about going mech in TvP, many people have tried it. The pros quickly realized that it didn't work, and stopped doing it. The wannabes are still trying because they think that mech is unexplored (because pros aren't using it) and don't seem to realize that it doesn't work. MarineKing absolutely destroyed Huk with pure mech at MLG Spring Arena 1. People also said Mutalisks don't work against Protoss and that Motherships are useless. | ||
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Buzerio
United Kingdom135 Posts
On May 12 2012 04:58 KiRiN wrote: Which race do you think is most OP? Why don’t you switch to that race so that you can win more? Isn’t winning nice? I did and I got promoted 2 leagues :O | ||
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Torra
Norway469 Posts
On May 15 2012 02:39 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: MarineKing absolutely destroyed Huk with pure mech at MLG Spring Arena 1. People also said Mutalisks don't work against Protoss and that Motherships are useless. MKP just played a mech TvP on his stream. Guess what. + Show Spoiler + He got roflstomped. | ||
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Topdoller
United Kingdom3860 Posts
On May 15 2012 02:36 Irre wrote: Forgg- " terran is very bad" on his stream the other day Well the results dont really bear out that statement here are the results of the major tournements this year and the facts simply dont reflect that statement http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments Out of the last 13 major finals on only one occasion has a Terran not made it to the final Prehaps Forgg should change his statment to " Forgg is very bad " | ||
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cydial
United States750 Posts
It wouldn't make you a better player or get you into a higher league all of a sudden, you'll just be another shitty player that plays in a, "Balanced" game as opposed to another shitty player in an imbalanced one. Seriously, piss off and learn to play better or quit. This game isn't easy. | ||
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cydial
United States750 Posts
On May 15 2012 02:52 Torra wrote: MKP just played a mech TvP on his stream. Guess what. + Show Spoiler + He got roflstomped. He also loses as bio to protoss, what's your point? Mech is an amazing opening to protoss forge fe vs terran these days if you open with banshees to contain then macro up your thors, tanks, and helions. | ||
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DemigodcelpH
1138 Posts
On May 14 2012 23:55 starfries wrote: No one can figure out the game completely in a couple months. Not even Flash. I'm not sure what "Protoss denial" is, but it just makes you sound like you're on tilt. Got all-in'ed a bit too much on ladder? You don't have to figure out the game to know that it's imbalanced in it's current state, and no I haven't been "all-in'd too much" on ladder. Your post is Protoss denial. Red herring argument, and then ad hominem (direct personal attack to substitute having nothing to say) argument all in vain attempts to discredit Flash's analysis. In other words you have no argument and are trying to save face. Keep disrespecting Flash, because a random forum Toss knows best. | ||
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lamiller
United States92 Posts
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Heh_
Singapore2712 Posts
On May 15 2012 03:33 lamiller wrote: I love how all terran players think the game is imbalanced ^_^ See what I did there? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On May 15 2012 03:33 lamiller wrote: I love how all protoss players think the game is balanced ^_^ Not at much as we love the terran players who think the same. They are the best people to play against, because they never blame the game or their race. | ||
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starfries
Canada3508 Posts
On May 15 2012 03:12 DemigodcelpH wrote: You don't have to figure out the game to know that it's imbalanced in it's current state, and no I haven't been "all-in'd too much" on ladder. Your post is Protoss denial. Red herring argument, and then ad hominem (direct personal attack to substitute having nothing to say) argument all in vain attempts to discredit Flash's analysis. In other words you have no argument and are trying to save face. Keep disrespecting Flash, because a random forum Toss knows best. It's not a serious analysis, it's just some comments he made in an interview. You guys are reading too much into it. And my icon is Protoss but I play random, so... I guess it's Random denial. Also, I'm not sure where you found a direct personal attack, but if you want to be offended, then ok. | ||
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TheSubtleArt
Canada2527 Posts
On May 15 2012 02:32 freetgy wrote: yeah and there was a reason for zerg one year ago to say Zerg T3 is absolute trash and not worth getting, and still we are here and both T3 is used + infestors. Thats actually one of those things protoss players were doing better then both Terran and Zerg. Protoss players as far as i could tell from the beginning were using almost every unit in their arsenal to become more cost effective, because gateway units sucked so much. Even carriers are used despite beeing such a bad unit in design, when it is feasible to transition into them safely. Zerg T3 was indeed trash before the infestor buff. Right now it's still trash if it doesn't have infestor support so I dont understand what youre getting at? If anything it's a clear example of something being evidently broken, pro players giving balance feedback, and Blizzard introducing a patch to fix a glaring problem. | ||
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Chaggi
Korea (South)1936 Posts
On May 15 2012 02:39 Aeroplaneoverthesea wrote: MarineKing absolutely destroyed Huk with pure mech at MLG Spring Arena 1. People also said Mutalisks don't work against Protoss and that Motherships are useless. Okay, I HATE when people use that game cause MKP got stupidly far ahead with Hellions cause HuK screwed up. Then MKP barely won even though HuK didn't get charge for the longest time. It was MUCH more about HuK messing up than MKP winning. | ||
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