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On May 12 2012 07:58 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 07:54 SoniC_eu wrote:On May 12 2012 07:42 rEalGuapo wrote:On May 12 2012 07:39 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:32 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 07:07 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 06:59 SoniC_eu wrote:On May 12 2012 06:55 Youtakenocandle wrote:
I never followed sc1 and don't know much about Flash, but balance whining as a supposed sc1 legend is pretty lame. Flash was sharing his current opnion (which could change in the future mind you). He understands RTS games like no one else, so I find your comment rather interesting. Wrong. He understands SC:BW like no one else. I'd bet you everything I had that he knows jack-all about C&C, Age of Empires, or even WC3. To say he understands BW, so he automatically knows more than Code S players is complete bull. Artosis has admitted on SotG that some code S players have no understanding of the game at all. And also I don't see any quote mentioning he thought Flash knew more than any code S player. He said Flash "understands RTS games like no one else". There's one, and only one, game that Flash can claim to have the highest knowledge of, and it certainly isn't SC2. RTS isn't a game, it's a genre. Your argument is like saying Alfred Hitchcok didn't have the best understanding of psychological thrillers during his time because he didn't direct them all. No that is like saying Alfred Hitchcok did not have the best understand of FILMS during his time because he only focused on one specific branche. Genre does not always equal genre. That doesnt make sense...one more time plz  So if Flash isn't ur nominee for best RTS player, who the hell is? ok I make this real simple. Just because the best Guitarrist of all times is also seen as the greatest musician does not mean he is the greatest: Drummer, Bass player, Violinist, Pianist etc.etc.etc. Yes with enough practice he can become that but it doesn't matter before he practiced. how hard is it to understand that SC2 IS NOT Broodwar!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
U wrote somewhere that he has played 40-50 games (which is not true).
Well your premise is not right. Guitar playing is something specfic in music, while RTS as a genre is not specific to one game.
I know Sc2 isn't BW. But they are in the same genre, and made by the same company. They even share similiar units, buildings and special abilities. Incredible isn't it?
You're basically wanting to negate Flash's opinion, because you consider him to be inferior at the moment. Have you considered that he might know more than he lets on?
As you can see from the interview, Flash is very humble and honest about what he thinks. He knows "he is a noob" (As he puts it himself). But he means a noob compared to what he is in BW. Don't let that statement fool you for a second or create any doubt that he doesnt have an understanding of sc2. His balance claims remain to be seen, but his opinion should not be cast aside because casual laddering players call him a "noob". That would be ridiculous.
EDIT: Also I would like to reiterate that he doesn't claim imbalance to certain units. He refers to certain aspects to the mechanics (FF and Warp-in mechanics) to be broken. Is it becuase he isn't use to it, or is he infact stating what a lot of other pro gamers have been talking about for a long time? Time will tell, but rest assured he isn't the first one to be touching upon the topic of warp in mechanics. I think we are all interested in having a game where one certain mechanic doesn't ruin the game for everyone, including PvP, right? It's hard to adapt to a broken mechanic...
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On May 12 2012 07:59 jj33 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 07:51 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 07:39 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:32 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 07:07 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 06:59 SoniC_eu wrote:On May 12 2012 06:55 Youtakenocandle wrote:
I never followed sc1 and don't know much about Flash, but balance whining as a supposed sc1 legend is pretty lame. Flash was sharing his current opnion (which could change in the future mind you). He understands RTS games like no one else, so I find your comment rather interesting. Wrong. He understands SC:BW like no one else. I'd bet you everything I had that he knows jack-all about C&C, Age of Empires, or even WC3. To say he understands BW, so he automatically knows more than Code S players is complete bull. Artosis has admitted on SotG that some code S players have no understanding of the game at all. And also I don't see any quote mentioning he thought Flash knew more than any code S player. He said Flash "understands RTS games like no one else". There's one, and only one, game that Flash can claim to have the highest knowledge of, and it certainly isn't SC2. RTS isn't a game, it's a genre. Your argument is like saying Alfred Hitchcok didn't have the best understanding of psychological thrillers during his time because he didn't direct them all. So now you're trying to pretend that Flash understands the entire RTS genre? the fact you're asking that question in that manner shows you don't undestand what strategy really is. Strategy is strategy. It is not exclusive to a particular rts game. you can apply the same principles of strategy to any strategical game or warfare simulation etc.
Better hire Gary Kasparov to balance SC2 then. Strategy is strategy, after all.
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i thought i was reading an idra interview when the balance stuff came up O_O
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OMG! FLASH PLAYING SC2!!! I WANT TO WATCH!
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On May 12 2012 08:09 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 08:08 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 07:58 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:55 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 07:54 SoniC_eu wrote:On May 12 2012 07:42 rEalGuapo wrote:On May 12 2012 07:39 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:32 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 07:07 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:
[quote]
Wrong. He understands SC:BW like no one else. I'd bet you everything I had that he knows jack-all about C&C, Age of Empires, or even WC3.
To say he understands BW, so he automatically knows more than Code S players is complete bull.
Artosis has admitted on SotG that some code S players have no understanding of the game at all. And also I don't see any quote mentioning he thought Flash knew more than any code S player. He said Flash "understands RTS games like no one else". There's one, and only one, game that Flash can claim to have the highest knowledge of, and it certainly isn't SC2. RTS isn't a game, it's a genre. Your argument is like saying Alfred Hitchcok didn't have the best understanding of psychological thrillers during his time because he didn't direct them all. No that is like saying Alfred Hitchcok did not have the best understand of FILMS during his time because he only focused on one specific branche. Genre does not always equal genre. That doesnt make sense...one more time plz So if Flash isn't ur nominee for best RTS player, who the hell is? Grubby or Moon could stomp him to death in WC3. Agreed, but I would be willing to bet he could pick WC3 up and compete at a high level much faster than you could. Because apparently being better than me at RTS games qualifies him to be the best in the world...? Flash would get completely stomped by every top player in every single RTS game that isn't Broodwar, yet his opinion is somehow still valid about every single one of them? Don't bother, some people simply are not capable of logical thought processes.
Why do you guys keep bringing up Flash as the best in the world? Other than when you have mentioned it no one else has? Stop adding words to other peoples post. Only you two have said anything about flash being the best at all RTS games. Honestly, go back and look, no one else has mentioned that.
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On May 12 2012 08:10 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 07:59 jj33 wrote:On May 12 2012 07:51 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 07:39 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:32 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 07:07 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 06:59 SoniC_eu wrote:On May 12 2012 06:55 Youtakenocandle wrote:
I never followed sc1 and don't know much about Flash, but balance whining as a supposed sc1 legend is pretty lame. Flash was sharing his current opnion (which could change in the future mind you). He understands RTS games like no one else, so I find your comment rather interesting. Wrong. He understands SC:BW like no one else. I'd bet you everything I had that he knows jack-all about C&C, Age of Empires, or even WC3. To say he understands BW, so he automatically knows more than Code S players is complete bull. Artosis has admitted on SotG that some code S players have no understanding of the game at all. And also I don't see any quote mentioning he thought Flash knew more than any code S player. He said Flash "understands RTS games like no one else". There's one, and only one, game that Flash can claim to have the highest knowledge of, and it certainly isn't SC2. RTS isn't a game, it's a genre. Your argument is like saying Alfred Hitchcok didn't have the best understanding of psychological thrillers during his time because he didn't direct them all. So now you're trying to pretend that Flash understands the entire RTS genre? the fact you're asking that question in that manner shows you don't undestand what strategy really is. Strategy is strategy. It is not exclusive to a particular rts game. you can apply the same principles of strategy to any strategical game or warfare simulation etc. Better hire Gary Kasparov to balance SC2 then. Strategy is strategy, after all.
It's so weird that everyone who plays Sc2 has at least a cursory understanding of Chess as well...weird...>_>
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On May 12 2012 07:58 kamikami wrote:
If Protoss is OP then choose Protoss Flash. How can you complain about balance while you spent your entire BW career playing the strongest race in that game ?
He didn't play Protoss in BW.
Apart from the "Protoss op" i think is important to note that he did not talk about units, or unit stats, but more about design problems. The same design problems like warp in, FF, colosuss (encouraging death balls), etc have been evident and criticized since BETA. They are bad and need to go, just wish Blizzard would admit they fucked up in designing Protoss and do something about it instead of making things like the replicant, carrier MK2, etc.
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I really like Marauders and Marines.
haha, poor artosis
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Can't wait to see Flash play at MLG Anaheim. I am curious what level he is actually at at the moment.
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On May 12 2012 08:10 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 07:59 jj33 wrote:On May 12 2012 07:51 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 07:39 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:32 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 07:07 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 06:59 SoniC_eu wrote:On May 12 2012 06:55 Youtakenocandle wrote:
I never followed sc1 and don't know much about Flash, but balance whining as a supposed sc1 legend is pretty lame. Flash was sharing his current opnion (which could change in the future mind you). He understands RTS games like no one else, so I find your comment rather interesting. Wrong. He understands SC:BW like no one else. I'd bet you everything I had that he knows jack-all about C&C, Age of Empires, or even WC3. To say he understands BW, so he automatically knows more than Code S players is complete bull. Artosis has admitted on SotG that some code S players have no understanding of the game at all. And also I don't see any quote mentioning he thought Flash knew more than any code S player. He said Flash "understands RTS games like no one else". There's one, and only one, game that Flash can claim to have the highest knowledge of, and it certainly isn't SC2. RTS isn't a game, it's a genre. Your argument is like saying Alfred Hitchcok didn't have the best understanding of psychological thrillers during his time because he didn't direct them all. So now you're trying to pretend that Flash understands the entire RTS genre? the fact you're asking that question in that manner shows you don't undestand what strategy really is. Strategy is strategy. It is not exclusive to a particular rts game. you can apply the same principles of strategy to any strategical game or warfare simulation etc. Better hire Gary Kasparov to balance SC2 then. Strategy is strategy, after all.
Whoops...Well sc2 has been compared to chess many times...So that statement hits closer to home than you think 
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On May 12 2012 08:12 Sapphire.lux wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 07:58 kamikami wrote:
If Protoss is OP then choose Protoss Flash. How can you complain about balance while you spent your entire BW career playing the strongest race in that game ? He didn't play Protoss in BW. Apart from the "Protoss op" i think is important to note that he did not talk about units, or unit stats, but more about design problems. The same design problems like warp in, FF, colosuss (encouraging death balls), etc have been evident and criticized since BETA. They are bad and need to go, just wish Blizzard would admit they fucked up in designing Protoss and do something about it instead of making things like the replicant, carrier MK2, etc.
You are kidding right? This game would not be competitive if it was as broken as you make it out to be.
Interesting interview. Flash playing SC2 is beyond epic.
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Balance whine has gone so far it's silly. Flash can't talk before he's a lot better at the game for a start. Secondly the balance whine get's more irrational by the day.
Protoss stomps a Terran in GSL - Protoss OP OMFG.
Terran stomps a Protoss- Nope GSL doesn't matter, sample is too small.
It's so stupid. It's got to the point where people are basically saying no Protoss earns his victories but every Terran does.
Face it all of you. There are too many variables in place for any of you to balance whine. We have noob level, we have laddr, we have Pro tournaments. Everyone uses something different for justification. Just stop it. If Blizzard see a need for change let them test it. Stop crying ALL THE DAMN TIME over Protoss. We even have the tournament winning data. It shows Terran having the most wins in 2012. Nono someone says..' that could just be someone having a good run.' Yeah it could, but more Terrans had those good runs. Same in GSL, did Terrans have a 'good run'.
It's so silly. No one can even justify why Protoss are OP, they see a storm or two hit on GSL then cry on this forum like it means something. Balance is not perfect. But is it so out of whack that protoss win everything. Certainly not, in fact it's the opposite. More bans need to be handed out. It may be peoples opinion, but it's a horrible taint on teamliquid and everywhere.
Anything close to a large statistical analysis suggests Protoss aren't OP. If they are/happen to be in the meta game right now then please look a few months back when Protoss was performing beyond awful. Things change, things fluctuate. Stop it.
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On May 12 2012 08:12 takingbackoj wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 08:09 rEalGuapo wrote:On May 12 2012 08:08 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 07:58 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:55 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 07:54 SoniC_eu wrote:On May 12 2012 07:42 rEalGuapo wrote:On May 12 2012 07:39 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:32 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 07:07 takingbackoj wrote:
[quote]
Artosis has admitted on SotG that some code S players have no understanding of the game at all. And also I don't see any quote mentioning he thought Flash knew more than any code S player. He said Flash "understands RTS games like no one else". There's one, and only one, game that Flash can claim to have the highest knowledge of, and it certainly isn't SC2. RTS isn't a game, it's a genre. Your argument is like saying Alfred Hitchcok didn't have the best understanding of psychological thrillers during his time because he didn't direct them all. No that is like saying Alfred Hitchcok did not have the best understand of FILMS during his time because he only focused on one specific branche. Genre does not always equal genre. That doesnt make sense...one more time plz So if Flash isn't ur nominee for best RTS player, who the hell is? Grubby or Moon could stomp him to death in WC3. Agreed, but I would be willing to bet he could pick WC3 up and compete at a high level much faster than you could. Because apparently being better than me at RTS games qualifies him to be the best in the world...? Flash would get completely stomped by every top player in every single RTS game that isn't Broodwar, yet his opinion is somehow still valid about every single one of them? Don't bother, some people simply are not capable of logical thought processes. Why do you guys keep bringing up Flash as the best in the world? Other than when you have mentioned it no one else has? Stop adding words to other peoples post. Only you two have said anything about flash being the best at all RTS games. Honestly, go back and look, no one else has mentioned that.
That's because you suck at reading comprehension.
Everyone and their grandma is pretending that Flash is qualified to make meaningful balance statements because he 'understands RTS game better than everyone else'.
He can comment all he wants, but there's no reason his opinion should be taken over any of the other Masters players in the balance whine thread.
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On May 12 2012 08:16 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 08:12 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 08:09 rEalGuapo wrote:On May 12 2012 08:08 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 07:58 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:55 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 07:54 SoniC_eu wrote:On May 12 2012 07:42 rEalGuapo wrote:On May 12 2012 07:39 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:32 WolfintheSheep wrote:
[quote]
He said Flash "understands RTS games like no one else". There's one, and only one, game that Flash can claim to have the highest knowledge of, and it certainly isn't SC2. RTS isn't a game, it's a genre. Your argument is like saying Alfred Hitchcok didn't have the best understanding of psychological thrillers during his time because he didn't direct them all. No that is like saying Alfred Hitchcok did not have the best understand of FILMS during his time because he only focused on one specific branche. Genre does not always equal genre. That doesnt make sense...one more time plz So if Flash isn't ur nominee for best RTS player, who the hell is? Grubby or Moon could stomp him to death in WC3. Agreed, but I would be willing to bet he could pick WC3 up and compete at a high level much faster than you could. Because apparently being better than me at RTS games qualifies him to be the best in the world...? Flash would get completely stomped by every top player in every single RTS game that isn't Broodwar, yet his opinion is somehow still valid about every single one of them? Don't bother, some people simply are not capable of logical thought processes. Why do you guys keep bringing up Flash as the best in the world? Other than when you have mentioned it no one else has? Stop adding words to other peoples post. Only you two have said anything about flash being the best at all RTS games. Honestly, go back and look, no one else has mentioned that. That's because you suck at reading comprehension. Everyone and their grandma is pretending that Flash is qualified to make meaningful balance statements because he 'understands RTS game better than everyone else'. He can comment all he wants, but there's no reason his opinion should be taken over any of the other Masters players in the balance whine thread.
I agree, it is probably untrue that flash "understands RTS games better than everyone else". I kind of suck with reading comprhension as you pointed out so can you point me to the page where that quote is? I cant seem to find it but im sure you're not making it up to validate your point.
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On May 12 2012 08:16 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 08:12 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 08:09 rEalGuapo wrote:On May 12 2012 08:08 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 07:58 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:55 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 07:54 SoniC_eu wrote:On May 12 2012 07:42 rEalGuapo wrote:On May 12 2012 07:39 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:32 WolfintheSheep wrote:
[quote]
He said Flash "understands RTS games like no one else". There's one, and only one, game that Flash can claim to have the highest knowledge of, and it certainly isn't SC2. RTS isn't a game, it's a genre. Your argument is like saying Alfred Hitchcok didn't have the best understanding of psychological thrillers during his time because he didn't direct them all. No that is like saying Alfred Hitchcok did not have the best understand of FILMS during his time because he only focused on one specific branche. Genre does not always equal genre. That doesnt make sense...one more time plz So if Flash isn't ur nominee for best RTS player, who the hell is? Grubby or Moon could stomp him to death in WC3. Agreed, but I would be willing to bet he could pick WC3 up and compete at a high level much faster than you could. Because apparently being better than me at RTS games qualifies him to be the best in the world...? Flash would get completely stomped by every top player in every single RTS game that isn't Broodwar, yet his opinion is somehow still valid about every single one of them? Don't bother, some people simply are not capable of logical thought processes. Why do you guys keep bringing up Flash as the best in the world? Other than when you have mentioned it no one else has? Stop adding words to other peoples post. Only you two have said anything about flash being the best at all RTS games. Honestly, go back and look, no one else has mentioned that. That's because you suck at reading comprehension. Everyone and their grandma is pretending that Flash is qualified to make meaningful balance statements because he 'understands RTS game better than everyone else'. He can comment all he wants, but there's no reason his opinion should be taken over any of the other Masters players in the balance whine thread.
And everyone and their grandma is pretending that they are qualified to make meaningful critiques about said comments and taking them way out of context when flash already prefaced it with "i'm a noob at SC2, this is my personal opinion and difficulty".
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On May 12 2012 08:10 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 07:59 jj33 wrote:On May 12 2012 07:51 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 07:39 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:32 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 07:07 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 06:59 SoniC_eu wrote:On May 12 2012 06:55 Youtakenocandle wrote:
I never followed sc1 and don't know much about Flash, but balance whining as a supposed sc1 legend is pretty lame. Flash was sharing his current opnion (which could change in the future mind you). He understands RTS games like no one else, so I find your comment rather interesting. Wrong. He understands SC:BW like no one else. I'd bet you everything I had that he knows jack-all about C&C, Age of Empires, or even WC3. To say he understands BW, so he automatically knows more than Code S players is complete bull. Artosis has admitted on SotG that some code S players have no understanding of the game at all. And also I don't see any quote mentioning he thought Flash knew more than any code S player. He said Flash "understands RTS games like no one else". There's one, and only one, game that Flash can claim to have the highest knowledge of, and it certainly isn't SC2. RTS isn't a game, it's a genre. Your argument is like saying Alfred Hitchcok didn't have the best understanding of psychological thrillers during his time because he didn't direct them all. So now you're trying to pretend that Flash understands the entire RTS genre? the fact you're asking that question in that manner shows you don't undestand what strategy really is. Strategy is strategy. It is not exclusive to a particular rts game. you can apply the same principles of strategy to any strategical game or warfare simulation etc. Better hire Gary Kasparov to balance SC2 then. Strategy is strategy, after all.
strawman argument.
that's not what i mean at all. but ok =]
all I said was concepts of strategy are not exclusive to any game or platform.
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Look, Flash interview! LET'S DISCUSS BALANCE
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On May 12 2012 08:02 nucLeaRTV wrote:
Perhpas Blizzard will now take a look into the PvT current state.
It doesn't seem like there's something wrong with PvT for MVP for example. Maybe it's just other terrans are bad?
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On May 12 2012 08:16 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 08:12 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 08:09 rEalGuapo wrote:On May 12 2012 08:08 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 07:58 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:55 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 07:54 SoniC_eu wrote:On May 12 2012 07:42 rEalGuapo wrote:On May 12 2012 07:39 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:32 WolfintheSheep wrote:
[quote]
He said Flash "understands RTS games like no one else". There's one, and only one, game that Flash can claim to have the highest knowledge of, and it certainly isn't SC2. RTS isn't a game, it's a genre. Your argument is like saying Alfred Hitchcok didn't have the best understanding of psychological thrillers during his time because he didn't direct them all. No that is like saying Alfred Hitchcok did not have the best understand of FILMS during his time because he only focused on one specific branche. Genre does not always equal genre. That doesnt make sense...one more time plz So if Flash isn't ur nominee for best RTS player, who the hell is? Grubby or Moon could stomp him to death in WC3. Agreed, but I would be willing to bet he could pick WC3 up and compete at a high level much faster than you could. Because apparently being better than me at RTS games qualifies him to be the best in the world...? Flash would get completely stomped by every top player in every single RTS game that isn't Broodwar, yet his opinion is somehow still valid about every single one of them? Don't bother, some people simply are not capable of logical thought processes. Why do you guys keep bringing up Flash as the best in the world? Other than when you have mentioned it no one else has? Stop adding words to other peoples post. Only you two have said anything about flash being the best at all RTS games. Honestly, go back and look, no one else has mentioned that. That's because you suck at reading comprehension. Everyone and their grandma is pretending that Flash is qualified to make meaningful balance statements because he 'understands RTS game better than everyone else'. He can comment all he wants, but there's no reason his opinion should be taken over any of the other Masters players in the balance whine thread.
I can think of several reaons why he will be taken seriously (if he wants to). One of them being, he is better than the Masters players on the TL thread. There Or maybe you would prefer to put a sack over your head and not look at Flash's comments, because they somehow don't sit well with you (for reasons other than you state). Flash is simply stating obsverations being "new" to sc2, kinda like a baby seeing the world for the first time. Sometimes being fresh can bring more astute observations than having grinded the game for 1½ yrs and simply winning by following certain metagame trends. Sometimes being new means ur opinions will change after some time... So I am repeating myself again, and saying let's see what the future holds for his opinion.
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EPT
