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On May 12 2012 07:54 SoniC_eu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 07:42 rEalGuapo wrote:On May 12 2012 07:39 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:32 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 07:07 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 06:59 SoniC_eu wrote:On May 12 2012 06:55 Youtakenocandle wrote:
I never followed sc1 and don't know much about Flash, but balance whining as a supposed sc1 legend is pretty lame. Flash was sharing his current opnion (which could change in the future mind you). He understands RTS games like no one else, so I find your comment rather interesting. Wrong. He understands SC:BW like no one else. I'd bet you everything I had that he knows jack-all about C&C, Age of Empires, or even WC3. To say he understands BW, so he automatically knows more than Code S players is complete bull. Artosis has admitted on SotG that some code S players have no understanding of the game at all. And also I don't see any quote mentioning he thought Flash knew more than any code S player. He said Flash "understands RTS games like no one else". There's one, and only one, game that Flash can claim to have the highest knowledge of, and it certainly isn't SC2. RTS isn't a game, it's a genre. Your argument is like saying Alfred Hitchcok didn't have the best understanding of psychological thrillers during his time because he didn't direct them all. No that is like saying Alfred Hitchcok did not have the best understand of FILMS during his time because he only focused on one specific branche. Genre does not always equal genre. That doesnt make sense...one more time plz  So if Flash isn't ur nominee for best RTS player, who the hell is?
ok I make this real simple.
Just because the best Guitarrist of all times is also seen as the greatest musician does not mean he is the greatest:
Drummer, Bass player, Violinist, Pianist etc.etc.etc.
Yes with enough practice he can become that but it doesn't matter before he practiced.
how hard is it to understand that SC2 IS NOT Broodwar!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
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On May 12 2012 07:55 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 07:54 SoniC_eu wrote:On May 12 2012 07:42 rEalGuapo wrote:On May 12 2012 07:39 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:32 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 07:07 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 06:59 SoniC_eu wrote:On May 12 2012 06:55 Youtakenocandle wrote:
I never followed sc1 and don't know much about Flash, but balance whining as a supposed sc1 legend is pretty lame. Flash was sharing his current opnion (which could change in the future mind you). He understands RTS games like no one else, so I find your comment rather interesting. Wrong. He understands SC:BW like no one else. I'd bet you everything I had that he knows jack-all about C&C, Age of Empires, or even WC3. To say he understands BW, so he automatically knows more than Code S players is complete bull. Artosis has admitted on SotG that some code S players have no understanding of the game at all. And also I don't see any quote mentioning he thought Flash knew more than any code S player. He said Flash "understands RTS games like no one else". There's one, and only one, game that Flash can claim to have the highest knowledge of, and it certainly isn't SC2. RTS isn't a game, it's a genre. Your argument is like saying Alfred Hitchcok didn't have the best understanding of psychological thrillers during his time because he didn't direct them all. No that is like saying Alfred Hitchcok did not have the best understand of FILMS during his time because he only focused on one specific branche. Genre does not always equal genre. That doesnt make sense...one more time plz So if Flash isn't ur nominee for best RTS player, who the hell is? Grubby or Moon could stomp him to death in WC3.
Agreed, but I would be willing to bet he could pick WC3 up and compete at a high level much faster than you could.
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On May 12 2012 07:51 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 07:39 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:32 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 07:07 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 06:59 SoniC_eu wrote:On May 12 2012 06:55 Youtakenocandle wrote:
I never followed sc1 and don't know much about Flash, but balance whining as a supposed sc1 legend is pretty lame. Flash was sharing his current opnion (which could change in the future mind you). He understands RTS games like no one else, so I find your comment rather interesting. Wrong. He understands SC:BW like no one else. I'd bet you everything I had that he knows jack-all about C&C, Age of Empires, or even WC3. To say he understands BW, so he automatically knows more than Code S players is complete bull. Artosis has admitted on SotG that some code S players have no understanding of the game at all. And also I don't see any quote mentioning he thought Flash knew more than any code S player. He said Flash "understands RTS games like no one else". There's one, and only one, game that Flash can claim to have the highest knowledge of, and it certainly isn't SC2. RTS isn't a game, it's a genre. Your argument is like saying Alfred Hitchcok didn't have the best understanding of psychological thrillers during his time because he didn't direct them all. So now you're trying to pretend that Flash understands the entire RTS genre?
the fact you're asking that question in that manner shows you don't undestand what strategy really is.
Strategy is strategy. It is not exclusive to a particular rts game. you can apply the same principles of strategy to any strategical game or warfare simulation etc.
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On May 12 2012 07:47 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 07:45 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:42 rEalGuapo wrote:On May 12 2012 07:39 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:32 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 07:07 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 06:59 SoniC_eu wrote:On May 12 2012 06:55 Youtakenocandle wrote:
I never followed sc1 and don't know much about Flash, but balance whining as a supposed sc1 legend is pretty lame. Flash was sharing his current opnion (which could change in the future mind you). He understands RTS games like no one else, so I find your comment rather interesting. Wrong. He understands SC:BW like no one else. I'd bet you everything I had that he knows jack-all about C&C, Age of Empires, or even WC3. To say he understands BW, so he automatically knows more than Code S players is complete bull. Artosis has admitted on SotG that some code S players have no understanding of the game at all. And also I don't see any quote mentioning he thought Flash knew more than any code S player. He said Flash "understands RTS games like no one else". There's one, and only one, game that Flash can claim to have the highest knowledge of, and it certainly isn't SC2. RTS isn't a game, it's a genre. Your argument is like saying Alfred Hitchcok didn't have the best understanding of psychological thrillers during his time because he didn't direct them all. No that is like saying Alfred Hitchcok did not have the best understand of FILMS during his time because he only focused on one specific branche. Genre does not always equal genre. Completely inaccurate. My prior statement is correct. Umm good try thoug? Yeah ok, so someone that understands BROODWAR really good MUST understand Command and Conquer equally good without ever having played it? Completely different mechanics, maps, units, features, techpaths etc etc. THAT is your argument. Carfully think about whether you want to stick to it. Learning French will not let you speak Chinese. However learning German will help you learn Dutch for example but you still need to put a lot of time in it until you can speak it fluently. In this example French is WC3 and Dutch Command and Conquers. German = BW and Dutch = SC II If you are great at one thing you will never be as good at another thing without putting time in that as well.
lol whaaaat are you talking about? very silly point first of all, but come on, have you still not learned grammar? you don't understand something "good"... You know what, on second thought grammar is probably lost on you.
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It is reasonable to complain about lategame TvP as a Terran, but the fact Flash complained about gateways/forcefields makes him look like someone who just isn't yet used to all the new starcraft2 tricks.
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On May 12 2012 07:58 takingbackoj wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 07:55 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 07:54 SoniC_eu wrote:On May 12 2012 07:42 rEalGuapo wrote:On May 12 2012 07:39 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:32 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 07:07 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 06:59 SoniC_eu wrote:On May 12 2012 06:55 Youtakenocandle wrote:
I never followed sc1 and don't know much about Flash, but balance whining as a supposed sc1 legend is pretty lame. Flash was sharing his current opnion (which could change in the future mind you). He understands RTS games like no one else, so I find your comment rather interesting. Wrong. He understands SC:BW like no one else. I'd bet you everything I had that he knows jack-all about C&C, Age of Empires, or even WC3. To say he understands BW, so he automatically knows more than Code S players is complete bull. Artosis has admitted on SotG that some code S players have no understanding of the game at all. And also I don't see any quote mentioning he thought Flash knew more than any code S player. He said Flash "understands RTS games like no one else". There's one, and only one, game that Flash can claim to have the highest knowledge of, and it certainly isn't SC2. RTS isn't a game, it's a genre. Your argument is like saying Alfred Hitchcok didn't have the best understanding of psychological thrillers during his time because he didn't direct them all. No that is like saying Alfred Hitchcok did not have the best understand of FILMS during his time because he only focused on one specific branche. Genre does not always equal genre. That doesnt make sense...one more time plz So if Flash isn't ur nominee for best RTS player, who the hell is? Grubby or Moon could stomp him to death in WC3. Agreed, but I would be willing to bet he could pick WC3 up and compete at a high level much faster than you could.
yeah but what you people do is that you value Flash's opinion on WC3 right now more than Grubby's. Which is retarded and the reason I close TL.net for today.
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On May 12 2012 07:58 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 07:54 SoniC_eu wrote:On May 12 2012 07:42 rEalGuapo wrote:On May 12 2012 07:39 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:32 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 07:07 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 06:59 SoniC_eu wrote:On May 12 2012 06:55 Youtakenocandle wrote:
I never followed sc1 and don't know much about Flash, but balance whining as a supposed sc1 legend is pretty lame. Flash was sharing his current opnion (which could change in the future mind you). He understands RTS games like no one else, so I find your comment rather interesting. Wrong. He understands SC:BW like no one else. I'd bet you everything I had that he knows jack-all about C&C, Age of Empires, or even WC3. To say he understands BW, so he automatically knows more than Code S players is complete bull. Artosis has admitted on SotG that some code S players have no understanding of the game at all. And also I don't see any quote mentioning he thought Flash knew more than any code S player. He said Flash "understands RTS games like no one else". There's one, and only one, game that Flash can claim to have the highest knowledge of, and it certainly isn't SC2. RTS isn't a game, it's a genre. Your argument is like saying Alfred Hitchcok didn't have the best understanding of psychological thrillers during his time because he didn't direct them all. No that is like saying Alfred Hitchcok did not have the best understand of FILMS during his time because he only focused on one specific branche. Genre does not always equal genre. That doesnt make sense...one more time plz So if Flash isn't ur nominee for best RTS player, who the hell is? ok I make this real simple. Just because the best Guitarrist of all times is also seen as the greatest musician does not mean he is the greatest: Drummer, Bass player, Violinist, Pianist etc.etc.etc. Yes with enough practice he can become that but it doesn't matter before he practiced. how hard is it to understand that SC2 IS NOT Broodwar!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
Its hard to understand because you are not addressing the points previously made. No one said he was the greatest at all RTS games. I said he had a better understanding of the genre than most. Im not sure if jimmy hendrix could play the drums but I bet he would be better at it than you or I. So flash may not bet the best SC2 player but he has a better understanding of RTS games then some random TL posters.
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Great interview, love the part where he wants to play in a lot of global tournaments.
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Thanks for the translation
Do you know anything about the other teams?
I heard Woongjin's Neo.G_Soulkey was good. The others are an unknown quantity. It's all a secret. Everything is kept under wraps. Even between friends. I think everyone's just pretending (to be crying).
This new proleague is going to be strange.
By the way about the balance comments: I think pre-nerf ghosts would have been way too powerful in the hands of Flash.
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On May 12 2012 07:59 cmcaneff5502 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 07:47 rEalGuapo wrote:On May 12 2012 07:45 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:42 rEalGuapo wrote:On May 12 2012 07:39 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:32 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 07:07 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 06:59 SoniC_eu wrote:On May 12 2012 06:55 Youtakenocandle wrote:
I never followed sc1 and don't know much about Flash, but balance whining as a supposed sc1 legend is pretty lame. Flash was sharing his current opnion (which could change in the future mind you). He understands RTS games like no one else, so I find your comment rather interesting. Wrong. He understands SC:BW like no one else. I'd bet you everything I had that he knows jack-all about C&C, Age of Empires, or even WC3. To say he understands BW, so he automatically knows more than Code S players is complete bull. Artosis has admitted on SotG that some code S players have no understanding of the game at all. And also I don't see any quote mentioning he thought Flash knew more than any code S player. He said Flash "understands RTS games like no one else". There's one, and only one, game that Flash can claim to have the highest knowledge of, and it certainly isn't SC2. RTS isn't a game, it's a genre. Your argument is like saying Alfred Hitchcok didn't have the best understanding of psychological thrillers during his time because he didn't direct them all. No that is like saying Alfred Hitchcok did not have the best understand of FILMS during his time because he only focused on one specific branche. Genre does not always equal genre. Completely inaccurate. My prior statement is correct. Umm good try thoug? Yeah ok, so someone that understands BROODWAR really good MUST understand Command and Conquer equally good without ever having played it? Completely different mechanics, maps, units, features, techpaths etc etc. THAT is your argument. Carfully think about whether you want to stick to it. Learning French will not let you speak Chinese. However learning German will help you learn Dutch for example but you still need to put a lot of time in it until you can speak it fluently. In this example French is WC3 and Dutch Command and Conquers. German = BW and Dutch = SC II If you are great at one thing you will never be as good at another thing without putting time in that as well. lol whaaaat are you talking about? very silly point first of all, but come on, have you still not learned grammar? you don't understand something "good"... You know what, on second thought grammar is probably lost on you.
This is you:
"First of all, you made a minor error after midnight in a foreign language and I disrespect you for that."
Great arguments you got their bitch.
Where is your second?
Where is anything?
Fuck off, I hope we both get a weeklong ban for this because otherwhise I will keep answering to retards like you.
User was temp banned for this post.
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Perhpas Blizzard will now take a look into the PvT current state.
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On May 12 2012 07:54 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 07:51 Femari wrote:On May 12 2012 07:19 JimmiC wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 07:07 JimmiC wrote:
Dream Hack won by Terran
MLG spring arena won by Zerg
Ironsquid won by Terran
MLG winter 2012 won by Terran
IPL 4 won by Terran
IEM Season VI Protoss
GSL season 1 Terran
Assembly 2012 Terran
IEM Sao Paulo Zerg
IEM Kiev Terran
Homestory IV Protoss
AOL King Of Kongs Zerg
Don't ACTUAL results matter?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If Flash wins every single event does that mean Terran is OP?
Nope means he's the best player.
By that Logic No race could ever be OP best players just win every time. So stop whineing about balance Wrong again. You're looking at balance based on a small amount of players. Balance is the race AS A WHOLE. Not 5 players winning the premier tournaments. So you do not base your imbalance claims on results. You do base them on chosing to belive all progamers that say the other races are stronger than the one you play? Or you base them on personal experience, which always is a pretty inaccurate method. Well I do not see any reason to discuss this any further with you.
You are a complete idiot and apparently like to make giant assumptions.
You look at the race as a whole, in other words all the damn players. Not just the top 30 players in the world, all the pro players. You take into account EVERYTHING to determine balance. By just looking at premier results, just the winners of the event and not the overall performance of the race itself in said events you are not determining the balance of the races.
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On May 12 2012 08:05 Femari wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 07:54 rEalGuapo wrote:On May 12 2012 07:51 Femari wrote:On May 12 2012 07:19 JimmiC wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 07:07 JimmiC wrote:
Dream Hack won by Terran
MLG spring arena won by Zerg
Ironsquid won by Terran
MLG winter 2012 won by Terran
IPL 4 won by Terran
IEM Season VI Protoss
GSL season 1 Terran
Assembly 2012 Terran
IEM Sao Paulo Zerg
IEM Kiev Terran
Homestory IV Protoss
AOL King Of Kongs Zerg
Don't ACTUAL results matter?
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If Flash wins every single event does that mean Terran is OP?
Nope means he's the best player.
By that Logic No race could ever be OP best players just win every time. So stop whineing about balance Wrong again. You're looking at balance based on a small amount of players. Balance is the race AS A WHOLE. Not 5 players winning the premier tournaments. So you do not base your imbalance claims on results. You do base them on chosing to belive all progamers that say the other races are stronger than the one you play? Or you base them on personal experience, which always is a pretty inaccurate method. Well I do not see any reason to discuss this any further with you. You are a complete idiot and apparently like to make giant assumptions. You look at the race as a whole, in other words all the damn players. Not just the top 30 players in the world, all the pro players. You take into account EVERYTHING to determine balance. By just looking at premier results, just the winners of the event and not the overall performance of the race itself in said events you are not determining the balance of the races.
Have you seen the latest statistics of all the matchups over all the ladder?
It is what Blizzard calls balanced.
Not more than 55% winrate in any matchup on any server.
So... Tell me.. What do you base your imbalance claims on?
Because it is clearly not what you just said.
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On May 12 2012 08:02 nucLeaRTV wrote:
Perhpas Blizzard will now take a look into the PvT current state.
I don't forsee any major changes until after HotS. A lot will change after that.
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It's okay for random TL forum users to make comments about rts balancing but it's not okay for professional players to? Given the basis that TL forum users also have reporter's bias and personal preference? Where the hell is this coming from. Flash understands BW, Flash understands basic RTS principles that are transferable, Flash has the results and historically shown that he has a deep understanding of a new RTS right after he starts playing it (see his major upsets against Bisu / Stork in 2008 when he was a very new player of BW). He wasn't being asked a question with the preface and intention of consulting his expertise on balance, he was being asked in an interview about his OWN difficulties playing a new game that the team and competitive environment is forcing him to regardless of his own opinion (in this case his own opinion of the game was coincidentally good). Can people just stop with the balance argument.
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On May 12 2012 07:58 takingbackoj wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 07:55 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 07:54 SoniC_eu wrote:On May 12 2012 07:42 rEalGuapo wrote:On May 12 2012 07:39 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:32 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 07:07 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 06:59 SoniC_eu wrote:On May 12 2012 06:55 Youtakenocandle wrote:
I never followed sc1 and don't know much about Flash, but balance whining as a supposed sc1 legend is pretty lame. Flash was sharing his current opnion (which could change in the future mind you). He understands RTS games like no one else, so I find your comment rather interesting. Wrong. He understands SC:BW like no one else. I'd bet you everything I had that he knows jack-all about C&C, Age of Empires, or even WC3. To say he understands BW, so he automatically knows more than Code S players is complete bull. Artosis has admitted on SotG that some code S players have no understanding of the game at all. And also I don't see any quote mentioning he thought Flash knew more than any code S player. He said Flash "understands RTS games like no one else". There's one, and only one, game that Flash can claim to have the highest knowledge of, and it certainly isn't SC2. RTS isn't a game, it's a genre. Your argument is like saying Alfred Hitchcok didn't have the best understanding of psychological thrillers during his time because he didn't direct them all. No that is like saying Alfred Hitchcok did not have the best understand of FILMS during his time because he only focused on one specific branche. Genre does not always equal genre. That doesnt make sense...one more time plz So if Flash isn't ur nominee for best RTS player, who the hell is? Grubby or Moon could stomp him to death in WC3. Agreed, but I would be willing to bet he could pick WC3 up and compete at a high level much faster than you could.
Because apparently being better than me at RTS games qualifies him to be the best in the world...?
Flash would get completely stomped by every top player in every single RTS game that isn't Broodwar, yet his opinion is somehow still valid about every single one of them?
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Awesome interview, really interesting
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On May 12 2012 08:08 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 07:58 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:55 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 07:54 SoniC_eu wrote:On May 12 2012 07:42 rEalGuapo wrote:On May 12 2012 07:39 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:32 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 07:07 takingbackoj wrote:On May 12 2012 07:03 WolfintheSheep wrote:On May 12 2012 06:59 SoniC_eu wrote:
[quote]
Flash was sharing his current opnion (which could change in the future mind you). He understands RTS games like no one else, so I find your comment rather interesting. Wrong. He understands SC:BW like no one else. I'd bet you everything I had that he knows jack-all about C&C, Age of Empires, or even WC3. To say he understands BW, so he automatically knows more than Code S players is complete bull. Artosis has admitted on SotG that some code S players have no understanding of the game at all. And also I don't see any quote mentioning he thought Flash knew more than any code S player. He said Flash "understands RTS games like no one else". There's one, and only one, game that Flash can claim to have the highest knowledge of, and it certainly isn't SC2. RTS isn't a game, it's a genre. Your argument is like saying Alfred Hitchcok didn't have the best understanding of psychological thrillers during his time because he didn't direct them all. No that is like saying Alfred Hitchcok did not have the best understand of FILMS during his time because he only focused on one specific branche. Genre does not always equal genre. That doesnt make sense...one more time plz So if Flash isn't ur nominee for best RTS player, who the hell is? Grubby or Moon could stomp him to death in WC3. Agreed, but I would be willing to bet he could pick WC3 up and compete at a high level much faster than you could. Because apparently being better than me at RTS games qualifies him to be the best in the world...? Flash would get completely stomped by every top player in every single RTS game that isn't Broodwar, yet his opinion is somehow still valid about every single one of them?
Don't bother, some people simply are not capable of logical thought processes.
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On May 12 2012 08:07 rEalGuapo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 12 2012 08:05 Femari wrote:On May 12 2012 07:54 rEalGuapo wrote:On May 12 2012 07:51 Femari wrote:On May 12 2012 07:19 JimmiC wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 12 2012 07:07 JimmiC wrote:
Dream Hack won by Terran
MLG spring arena won by Zerg
Ironsquid won by Terran
MLG winter 2012 won by Terran
IPL 4 won by Terran
IEM Season VI Protoss
GSL season 1 Terran
Assembly 2012 Terran
IEM Sao Paulo Zerg
IEM Kiev Terran
Homestory IV Protoss
AOL King Of Kongs Zerg
Don't ACTUAL results matter?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If Flash wins every single event does that mean Terran is OP?
Nope means he's the best player.
By that Logic No race could ever be OP best players just win every time. So stop whineing about balance Wrong again. You're looking at balance based on a small amount of players. Balance is the race AS A WHOLE. Not 5 players winning the premier tournaments. So you do not base your imbalance claims on results. You do base them on chosing to belive all progamers that say the other races are stronger than the one you play? Or you base them on personal experience, which always is a pretty inaccurate method. Well I do not see any reason to discuss this any further with you. You are a complete idiot and apparently like to make giant assumptions. You look at the race as a whole, in other words all the damn players. Not just the top 30 players in the world, all the pro players. You take into account EVERYTHING to determine balance. By just looking at premier results, just the winners of the event and not the overall performance of the race itself in said events you are not determining the balance of the races. Have you seen the latest statistics of all the matchups over all the ladder? It is what Blizzard calls balanced. Not more than 55% winrate in any matchup on any server. So... Tell me.. What do you base your imbalance claims on? Because it is clearly not what you just said.
Well blizzard has openly admitted they have concerns about a couple matchups, so the pros think there's an issue, Blizzard thinks there's potentially an issue but we should forsake that and agree with you?
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nice interview, thanks.
i think it is so cool to see how humble flash is, speaking about his sc2 skills!
i've been wating for him and jae dong to transition since july 27th, 2010 (that day i messed up an exam^^).
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EPT
