EPTMatch Making Rating Tool - Page 165
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MMR-Stats
26 Posts
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Denoginizzer
Netherlands13 Posts
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korona
1098 Posts
It has now happened twice to my own accounts. Once for NA account and now once for EU account. I was inactive with both more than a month but less than a season (have been active in every season). My MMR dropped considerably in both after inactivity period. First time it happened during second HotS season (S13). I had played my NA account to master during first season. Just before season switch from S12 to S13 I played few games that dropped my MMR to high diamond. I played my placements in S13 week before lock period. And my MMR was set to high gold. I originally I thought it was some kind of bug MMR reset. There were no offset changes between those seasons. Now it happened to my EU account in middle of S14. I played my lasts matches in June and my MMR was calculated to be borderline diamond (multiple consistent calculations). I had already placed in diamond and played 50-50 games. During the lock period I decided to clear some of my bonus pool. As I and my opponents were usually capped I did receive only one 'good game'. It indicated my MMR was in high gold or borderline plat. This season I placed to plat and got several good readings that all were consistent the season end MMR. The readings were consistent both before and after the inactivity period. Also it seems there are no offset changes. Also many of the opponents seemed weird - Much better than you would expect from high gold. For example I asked many why so low MMR? I thought some of them had perhaps artificially lowered theirs, but their data seemed 'legit'. For example there was a master player (playing ranked, his initial placement to master -> season start MMR was already master) who had played in the beginning of season with positive win ratio (it can be generalized that their MMR should have actually increased if he faced similar MMR opponents & not dropped for two league ranges). Still his MMR after his inactivity period was low platinum. No indications of artificially lowering MMR . The data suggests that there is some kind of MMR decay or reset after an inactivity period (more than month, less than full season). Blizzard has not publicly mentioned such. It might also be some kind of bug in the system. This also potentially leads to MMR erosion... The people who drop due inactivity are better than typical player population in that MMR range. If some of you MMR tool users have experienced similar MMR drops after inactivity period of more than 1 month but less than full season, please let me know your ID & server either in this thread or via PM so I can investigate (I have all uploaded data for everyone). Please note I am not meaning a 'spike' that is likely caused due data error (spikes are almost always upwards not downwards). You should have several consistent readings before and after. It is unknown how this decay mechanic functions & how long the minimum inactivity period is. But if multiple such accounts could be found, maybe a rule can be fleshed out. Edit: Note that you should have moving avg off (low toolbar) and 'mark assumptions and bad games' on (from config > data >) and auto correct disabled (low toolbar) | ||
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Val_
Ukraine156 Posts
im top ml/low gml player and im playing like that - 2 months active, 2 months inactive (have such work) constantly, etc, for about 3 years and first 5-10 games after inactive there are always vs really weak players, (not top ml, at least) - even top dia (rarely) and low ml+ But only 5-10 easy games, half of a playday and im playing vs my level again (and games are not easy anymore) (and, for example, after some of my inactives i had my first ladder game vs my clan mate, i know exactly that he is lower) Sorry I dont have any data in your database because ive started to use MMR plugin a month ago, but keep investigating, something like that is present sry for my english :p | ||
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NDie
France21 Posts
But anyway, I've tried to use this tool a long time ago, but now, when i'm trying to use it again, it doesnt work. It shows the 0/X thing, with X the number of game i'm playing, but I've played 50 games or like, and it doesnt work  Sorry if the question has already been asked, I have searched a bit but I've not find anything ^^ | ||
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InfCereal
Canada1759 Posts
On August 29 2013 09:02 NDie wrote: Val_, aren't u the guy i killed on ladder and who raged hard ? :p But anyway, I've tried to use this tool a long time ago, but now, when i'm trying to use it again, it doesnt work. It shows the 0/X thing, with X the number of game i'm playing, but I've played 50 games or like, and it doesnt work Sorry if the question has already been asked, I have searched a bit but I've not find anything ^^ Do you have the ram scanner enabled in the options panel? Enabling it will drastically improve good games, and you'll get a more accurate graph. Unfortunately, reading process memory is against blizzard's terms of service, so you'll have to enable it at your own risk, though no one has been banned for using it thus far. | ||
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korona
1098 Posts
On August 29 2013 09:43 InfCereal wrote: Do you have the ram scanner enabled in the options panel? Enabling it will drastically improve good games, and you'll get a more accurate graph. Unfortunately, reading process memory is against blizzard's terms of service, so you'll have to enable it at your own risk, though no one has been banned for using it thus far. More info in http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334561¤tpage=162#3226 and in another post that is linked there. Please note that in the beginning of the season it also takes some time for people to reach uncapped adjusted points ranges. Regarding the memory tool risk is minimal as it only reads data (does not alter). Would not expect bans neither in future. Btw. if you want to see what it reads in beginning of each match (if enabled) you can check 'out.txt' after a match. It is located in MMRPlugin's folder (contains 4 small memory slices that contain player names & long character ID:s). | ||
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NDie
France21 Posts
On August 29 2013 09:43 InfCereal wrote: Do you have the ram scanner enabled in the options panel? Enabling it will drastically improve good games, and you'll get a more accurate graph. Unfortunately, reading process memory is against blizzard's terms of service, so you'll have to enable it at your own risk, though no one has been banned for using it thus far. Yes it is, but it doesnt change anything I have watched the post of korona, it is said that it is faster when you're in the upper tier of you're division, but I am top master (I'm always #1 #2 and I'm oftenly playing GM) and I've got nothing I guess that this is due to the new season, it's sad, I would have enjoyed knowing my lucks to go GM again ^^ | ||
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korona
1098 Posts
On August 29 2013 05:28 Val_ wrote: Thanks for your post. If you continue to use the tool also in future I will check your data from time to time. Based on the general user graphs the MMR changes often faster in GM ranges than in lower league ranges. This is likely due low population (picks opponents from larger MMR range, exceptions in very top).Korona: im top ml/low gml player and im playing like that - 2 months active, 2 months inactive (have such work) constantly, etc, for about 3 years and first 5-10 games after inactive there are always vs really weak players, (not top ml, at least) - even top dia (rarely) and low ml+ But only 5-10 easy games, half of a playday and im playing vs my level again (and games are not easy anymore) (and, for example, after some of my inactives i had my first ladder game vs my clan mate, i know exactly that he is lower) Sorry I dont have any data in your database because ive started to use MMR plugin a month ago, but keep investigating, something like that is present sry for my english :p For example both my drops were some 250 to 280 MMR points (description). With typical change rate it would take 16 to 18 straight wins against similar opponents to gain that amount of MMR. For example it took for me ~76 matches (50 wins 26 loses) to get back to high diamond/borderline master MMR range (where it was before reset/decay) in my first example (was annoying process as opponents felt generally weak in comparison at start. This time it seems that opponents are mixed. Some seem much weaker, but some play like what you would expect in higher MMR ranges). | ||
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korona
1098 Posts
On August 29 2013 10:45 NDie wrote: Yes it is, but it doesnt change anything I have watched the post of korona, it is said that it is faster when you're in the upper tier of you're division, but I am top master (I'm always #1 #2 and I'm oftenly playing GM) and I've got nothing I guess that this is due to the new season, it's sad, I would have enjoyed knowing my lucks to go GM again ^^ Also note that to get good readings from this season data, it requires it to be recorded with the newest version of MMR tool (9.6) that has been out only for a day. It might also be that most of your games were recorded with the old version? Also Blizzard had a service break yesterday morning regarding their US and EU web profiles --> No good readings from that period. If I knew your account name I could check. PS: The GM line is an approximate what it required to get GM in last season at start (if I remember correctly. or it is a master-gm mixing point after 1 week of GM being open). Thus it may be inaccurate for this season (in week or two I will likely check the offsets. At the same time I will update the GM line if necessary). | ||
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Incand
143 Posts
I dont think i really deserved my old mmr (anymore) but regardless it wasn't any miscalculation since i have plenty of good games. http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/3173952/1/Incand/ | ||
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IMScientist
Italy125 Posts
http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/3372052/1/Hypernova/ last season i had 64 games with 34 wins in platinum a 53% winrate | ||
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NDie
France21 Posts
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Val_
Ukraine156 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/avHCJ7J.png) after each game +100 mb memory till ~470, 1 game more and sc2gears is not responding forced to reset it after each set of 3-5 games ..... ill try to reinstall but anyway.. maybe try to check the new code from the latest update edit: just one game more and sc2gears is dead :p (ive played 4 games) + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/WF7seGa.png) (i should restart it and it will be again like on 1 screen) my profile http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/172689/1/Val/ | ||
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korona
1098 Posts
On August 30 2013 00:18 Val_ wrote: seems like the plugin is memory leaking somewhere. + Show Spoiler + after each game +100 mb memory till ~470, 1 game more and sc2gears is not responding forced to reset it after each set of 3-5 games ..... ill try to reinstall but anyway.. maybe try to check the new code from the latest update edit: just one game more and sc2gears is dead :p (ive played 4 games) + Show Spoiler + (i should restart it and it will be again like on 1 screen) my profile http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/172689/1/Val/ It might also be something regarding your system. You could also try to update your Java (JVM). Also make sure you have the latest Sc2gears ('check updates' from 'help' menu of sc2gears). For example I currently have set max extended mem to Xmx512m for sc2gears Java process (if I remember it is the default for sc2gears). Currently I have open some ~40 analysis windows open from yesterday's session, have three large replay searches open and of course MMR plugin. At the moment from max 455 MB only 321 MB is allocated from which 203 MB is used. Java garbage collection (frees memory space used by unused memory structures. Memory control in Java is automated) seems functioning quite efficiently at least based on the sc2gears display. By rapidly switching between the 40 analysis windows max allocated memory peak was ~420MB. What is the highest number of games you have in your graph (upper tool bar)? You can also see how many games MMR tool loads from the start of the log (search for lines such as "OK Gamedata: XXX Games loaded" First is for active data. Second for archive). I quickly tested it with max 17 472 games in one graph. It takes quite long to process that large graphs, but opened ok. Then again processing log for that sized graph seemed to take very long (waited few minutes before closing the process). In second test I dropped max games to 6 048. Now graph processed much faster, but opening the log took still some time. With 3 360 games both the graph and log appeared fast. On side note I have to increase size of the number of games display on upper bar. When having thousands of games it does not fit entirely to the display space available to it. ---- Also thanks Incand & IMScientist. Wrote your account info down and will check them in future. Will try to find other accounts too based on user graphs during that session. Also Bnet forums are full of complaints regarding odd demotions. For example this player had been placed to diamond last season and played 18 games (10-8) (his initial MMR was diamond). He had been demoted to gold in this season's placement match. If his last season's initial MMR was borderline diamond then demotion to plat would be possible, but to gold is not logical especially if there was no offset changes (of course only based on web profile it cannot be seen if he has used 'leave league' this season that might lead to such). | ||
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Nasreth
United States48 Posts
I am about as inactive as they come and I haven't demoted out of Masters a single time since I placed into it 9 seasons ago. This is despite playing my single placement match, and often no more than 10 matches for an entire season on multiple occasions. Last season I played 20 games and this season I once again placed into Masters. I don't think your theory of MMR decay is true. | ||
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Andr0meda
Netherlands1 Post
I think it's possible your theory of MMR decay could be true. I have also heard whispers from others of the same thing. Here is my ID and server to hopefully help your investigation (I'm a much lower league)... I did take a 1 month break or there about during the last season, and resumed play during season lock and noticed the sudden MMR drop. Eve (changed from Andromeda 2 days ago) NA server http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/2919987/1/Eve/ Screenshot of mmr graph inside the Spoiler + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i44.tinypic.com/2eoznyt.jpg) Hope it helps!  P.s. Interestingly this didn't occur on my EU account (Nickname: Andromeda) but I had so few games played there, perhaps that goes hand in hand with the master player above? Maybe you need a certain amount of games for this to occur although that makes no sense. :D I was Gold on both NA and EU last season, and placed Silver on NA (my main and most used account) and Gold again on EU. | ||
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korona
1098 Posts
On August 30 2013 04:44 Nasreth wrote: @korona I am about as inactive as they come and I haven't demoted out of Masters a single time since I placed into it 9 seasons ago. This is despite playing my single placement match, and often no more than 10 matches for an entire season on multiple occasions. Last season I played 20 games and this season I once again placed into Masters. I don't think your theory of MMR decay is true. As said it is there, but it is unknown if it is decay/reset or bug in the system & how exactly it works. It could be a bug too that does not affect all. But common denominator in these cases is that there has been inactivity period before it. It is especially easy to see in accounts that played only few matches during the season (but have played all time much more so their MMR does not change anymore rapidly). If they were placed in some league initially it can be said for sure that their MMR was in that league at the moment they placed. And you don't drop several leagues in MMR based on few games (please note I am not talking about those 25 to 40 games after blank MMR start where MMR changes more rapidly). One such example is in my last post. And if you are in high master MMR range you will not be demoted with MMR drop of 250 to 300. And have plenty of time to rise up during the season. But if you are in a lower league & get 250 to 300 MMR points decrease it results a sure demotion as lower leagues are often just 250 or little more MMR points wide. Master league on the other hand is huge regarding MMR wide. For example from bottom of master to gm barrier there could be roughly 2.5 x diamond sized leagues (some 600 MMR points). In 2011 Blizzard still had a rule that MMR was reset if you were totally inactive a whole season, but it was since removed (or period extended). But now it would be much shorter if it would be inactivity based reset/decay. I will have to check offsets too in a week or two to make certain there were no changes. But as results seem consistent even if calculated based on offsets of different leagues, it is likely the offsets remained the same. And if there was an offset change it would have occurred before season switch during the end portion of last season. --- And thanks Andr0meda. Will check your account also when I have time investigate. | ||
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Nelvalhil
6 Posts
I was curious about when I will get placed into a higher league since I'm facing gold/plat and former dia players while I'm still in silver. So I've downloaded MMR tools and have read the instructions, I have the latest version of MMR stats installed and it recognizes my account. But now one thing is; I still says needs a game with better data, I've played atleast 15/20 games on ladder 1v1 with MMR stats running. Also memory is enabled. Am I doing something wrong? I really want to know what my MMR is and when I get promoted into the higher leagues. I've posted some screenshots taken of MMR stats and I hope someone can tell me what I'm doing wrong Cheers! Screenshots: http://i41.tinypic.com/110yclz.png http://i43.tinypic.com/20r7904.png EDIT: My SC2gears also says I'm using 60ish mb ram of 250ish, is that normal? I've got 4x4 gb ram installed | ||
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IMScientist
Italy125 Posts
On August 29 2013 19:12 IMScientist wrote: Hi i was at about 1000-1100 mmr points,didn't play for about 3-4 weeks and now im in gold with 700 mmr points http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/3372052/1/Hypernova/ last season i had 64 games with 34 wins in platinum a 53% winrate So i finally got back to plat after 43 games 28 wins 15 losses win rate of 65% vs all, was promoted at 862 mmr points | ||
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