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Sweden33719 Posts
On May 03 2012 12:41 onPHYRE wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 12:36 Liquid`Jinro wrote:......... I dont have words for how dumb this is. On May 03 2012 12:35 Empirimancer wrote:
Just tested the new overlords, they feel much, much faster. Zerg early game scouting will be even better than Terran early game scouting now.
Terran early game scouting fucking sucks so that's not much of an accomplishment. Do you disagree with both Z changes (I don't think the P one is that big anyway)? I think the overlord one is nice, not too fast, just slightly better. The Queen one might be a bit much, like people said maybe 35 energy instead of 50.
Queen change is absolutely beyond disgusting.
Overlord change is ok I guess, but I really dont think zergs have that hard of a time with dying to rushes.......
Observer change is retarded wtf, they are already insanely quick to get with chronoboost wtf are you serious?
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On May 03 2012 12:43 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 12:41 latan wrote:
at first the queen change seems too much, but if you think about it it's only one extra tumor per queen. it'll help with creep connecting bases obviously and initial creep spread, but it won't affect that much overall creep spread, since if you can clear 1 tumor you can surely clear an additional one.
that is, I don't think it will be much harder to deny/clear creep, but it will certainly reduce a lot of stress for zerg players in the very early game. It's a vast change. Lower level players won't see the difference, but for every high level player it's a world of difference. Spreading creep is essentially "free." All it takes is multi-task, and progamers are going to be able to cover half the map in creep by the 10 minute mark. A lot of people just do not understand how such a "tiny" change is a huge, huge, HUGE, buff.
well then i guess then opponents will have to work a little harder to deny creep spread, which isn't even difficult anyway, or a big deal, i think. the observer change will help a bit as well.
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Seriously david kim.... the only thing he looks at is terran advantages and he is taking everything out of it. Now Zerg will have easier creep spread.. and toss will have more observers out. 
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I don't see the queen buff affecting creep spread so much. You can do that already if you want to spend early energy on creep at your natural, it's not a big deal. Transfuse is the bigger deal imo. It's a defensive buff for zerg early game. It's more needed vs terran than protoss I think. It will hurt stargate play some, but I don't think it will be that bad.
I don't see how people can be upset about the overlord buff. Does anyone really like the concept of gambling with build orders, hoping not to get scouted? Early game will be ever so slightly less volatile. Zerg will still have the worst scouting denial.
edit: People are being way too over dramatic here. These changes would barely influence win percentages, if at all. They'd only slightly change the dynamic of the game. If they go through, no one's going to be bitching 3 months from now when the game's still balanced, just like after every other patch.
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On May 03 2012 12:28 Filter wrote:
Why can't protoss just build more than 1 observer? It's the same as the warp prism situation. I don't use banshee's at all in TvP but at the same time this feels really stupid. Now they'll be an observer everywhere on my army, on drop locations etc unless protoss players still refuse to make them.
The reason I say it feels like warp prisms is because speed prisms are insanely overpowered, but protoss players don't utilize them at all to their full potential. Observers are amazing units but pro's don't get a second robo to squeeze them out, they haven't even attempted to cut colossus for them. It's just easier to get a templar instead of two observers with the gas.
The Queen thing is kind of silly too, if it's that big of a problem zergs just have to get an extra one to get the same effect of spreading creep. The only thing I can think of are the extra transfuses helping stabilize zvz (transfuse spine crawlers) which would be amazing, I just don't like the idea that zergs will no get free creep spread over the entire map.
The overlord change seems reasonable.
It's way too much time lost producing from the robo. Dick around too much making additional observers or warp prisms and you lose because you have 1 colossus instead of 2, or 1 immortal instead of 2 in pvz.
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On May 03 2012 12:44 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 12:41 onPHYRE wrote:On May 03 2012 12:36 Liquid`Jinro wrote:......... I dont have words for how dumb this is. On May 03 2012 12:35 Empirimancer wrote:
Just tested the new overlords, they feel much, much faster. Zerg early game scouting will be even better than Terran early game scouting now.
Terran early game scouting fucking sucks so that's not much of an accomplishment. Do you disagree with both Z changes (I don't think the P one is that big anyway)? I think the overlord one is nice, not too fast, just slightly better. The Queen one might be a bit much, like people said maybe 35 energy instead of 50. Queen change is absolutely beyond disgusting. Overlord change is ok I guess, but I really dont think zergs have that hard of a time with dying to rushes....... Observer change is retarded wtf, they are already insanely quick to get with chronoboost wtf are you serious?
I guess ZvP is very different, I don't ever play TvP so the change I guess doesn't feel large to me. The Queen one I agree is a bit much, I still feel like it is a step in the right direction, and someone even showed with dedicated creep spread (with screen shots) you are equal at the 10-12 minute mark pre and post buff (even with injecting first on pre buff). I see the transfuse change vs anti-air being much bigger than the creep one, which is why I think 35 is better than 50.
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It's getting to the point that even terran players are going to be asking for a marine nerf.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On May 03 2012 12:44 Liquid`Jinro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 12:41 onPHYRE wrote:On May 03 2012 12:36 Liquid`Jinro wrote:......... I dont have words for how dumb this is. On May 03 2012 12:35 Empirimancer wrote:
Just tested the new overlords, they feel much, much faster. Zerg early game scouting will be even better than Terran early game scouting now.
Terran early game scouting fucking sucks so that's not much of an accomplishment. Do you disagree with both Z changes (I don't think the P one is that big anyway)? I think the overlord one is nice, not too fast, just slightly better. The Queen one might be a bit much, like people said maybe 35 energy instead of 50. Queen change is absolutely beyond disgusting. Overlord change is ok I guess, but I really dont think zergs have that hard of a time with dying to rushes....... Observer change is retarded wtf, they are already insanely quick to get with chronoboost wtf are you serious?
I agree. These changes make no sense to me either and they do not address the issues that TvP has at the moment and if anything, help protoss get to a safe lategame. The queen change is just ridiculous ...
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Oh wait observer change? I thought it was like overseer morph change time for some ridiculous reason.
In that case, the observer change is silly. They're already super fast to get out, like jinro said.
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The only thing that is worrying about the queen change is against VR/phoenix play. Banshee play should be uneffected on the whole.
Remember, in ZvT zerg gets the queens to spread creep and push hellions back. They arent going to be saving the energy for transfuse.
In ZvP, it could allow zerg to have one transfuse by the time the phoenix/VR get to the zerg base (zerg dont often save energy on queens and would only build that extra queen upon scouting the stargate or suspecting stargate play). However, the current metagame generally has zerg prepared for most stargate play so it shouldnt change a ton.
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Why don't they use the PTR for this?
Still, I actually like the all the changes. I'm concerned that the creep one might be game breaking early, but the others are fine.
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On May 03 2012 12:52 BronzeKnee wrote:
Why don't they use the PTR for this?
My guess is that so more people can try it and they don't have to make a completely different server just to try out balance changes instead on North America.
Edit:
I mean they want more countries to play it than North America. They also don't have to make another server for the PTR.....you can just play the map.
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On May 03 2012 12:52 BronzeKnee wrote:
Why don't they use the PTR for this?
My guess is that barely anyone actually uses it
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Nobody likes downloading the PTR I suppose. This is a pretty cool idea from Blizz to do for the patch.
If the queen change goes through it'll probably end up forcing more hellion play and more outside of the basic opening. I kind of don't think it will though.
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I'm getting REALLY confused at the people saying this'll make protoss unable to go fast air or terran unable to do some 8 hellion run-by. That's kinda the point of the changes. Protoss and terran players already have the tools to easily prepare for the cheesy cheese. Zerg doesn't. This is an attempt at giving zerg something to deal with it.
And please, stop using the "BAWWWW THEY FORCE US INTO MACRO GAMES VS ZERG!" argument. We're already seeing terran players go fast triple orbital and protoss taking an early third.
There's a reason zergs win so few tournaments.
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On May 03 2012 12:54 latan wrote:My guess is that barely anyone actually uses it
So Blizzard is going to rebalance the match ups based on a single map? Do they not believe that maps effect balance?
I thought that the was point of the PTR to test changes in a setting that was exactly the same as the game. Rebalancing the game based on one map seems beyond silly to me. For instance, the extra energy for the Queen might really help Zerg on Antigua, but maybe not so much on a map like Korhal Compound that has a larger distance to it's third.
Sigh.
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I think people who play terran are masochists to stick with the race tbh. I REALLY hope something is done about lategame... soon.
This is a total dissapointment. The overlord speed is totally understandable, but the queen suggestion is just plain stupid.. And protoss dont need faster observers, with chrono and all. It will make scanning to kill them even less valuable then it already is because less robo time wasted..
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International win rates are getting more and more balanced at the moment. Doesn't really seem a good time to mess with things.
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On May 03 2012 12:52 BronzeKnee wrote:
Why don't they use the PTR for this?
Still, I actually like the all the changes. I'm concerned that the creep one might be game breaking early, but the others are fine.
1) People are lazy and don't log into PTR.
2) There won't be a patch this time, just hot-fix into the server.
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On May 03 2012 12:56 Sajaki wrote:
I think people who play terran are masochists to stick with the race tbh. I REALLY hope something is done about lategame... soon.
This is a total dissapointment. The overlord speed is totally understandable, but the queen suggestion is just plain stupid.. And protoss dont need faster observers, with chrono and all. It will make scanning to kill them even less valuable then it already is because less robo time wasted..
They aren't going to buff Terran lategame until they nerf Terran early game (read: marines) so that the overall balance remains ~50%.
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