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On May 03 2012 12:04 Fig wrote:
Well I'd like to see people try going mass queen with this change. Queens are 150 minerals for a spellcaster that is neither armored nor light, more health than a stalker at 175hp, 1 armor, and about the same DPS as a stalker. Plus it can use an ability to provide vision and increase its own speed, as well as the speed of all your other units, burst heal for 125hp at range, and obviously spawn larva. And now it spawns with double the energy.
It'd make queen/roach a viable mid/early game build. I love it.
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On May 03 2012 12:10 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 12:08 aksfjh wrote:On May 03 2012 12:04 avilo wrote:On May 03 2012 11:38 Templare wrote:On May 03 2012 11:25 iAmJeffReY wrote:
Time to cut every single cloak banshee build I do vs toss...They already pop before you can kill 5-6 probes, especially if they PULL the probes, and chrono the robo. It, as most buffs to protoss, makes another terran unit obsolete as a harass tool, in my mind.
So...like how 1 chrono gets 2 probes out so fast...now 1 chrono will get an OB out almost instantly...
This is such a sad list of changes as a terran player. If you DON'T open up early hellions, it's almost impossible to hinder/stop creep as is. Terran has scan. If a Protoss dt rushes an unprepared Terran, it is easy for the Terran to simply scan. A Protoss player has to build a robo for detection. It is highly unlikely that every time you go for cloaked banshees that the Protoss player will even have a robotics facility. You obviously haven't played much Terran before. Now now, it's not his fault the race is mysteriously missing everywhere except Korea and Blizzard data. This just in: Thorzain mysteriously disappears
This just in: Thorzain wins multiple championships, not once every year.
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On May 03 2012 11:32 KawaiiRice wrote:![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/DI9Ne.jpg) If there is nothing wrong with this image I don't know what to say to you.
this proves absolutely nothing.
if you leave anything alone in this game it's going to get wildly out of control. THAT'S THE POINT.
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Agree with the Overlord change. 50 starting energy on Queens might be a tad too much... but it's a step in the right direction of reducing the fragility of zerg. It's ridiculous how much more susceptible zerg is to all-ins.
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These changes are actually for Nestea (he lost to 3gate in Code S), Losira (losing to terran 1 base all time) and other top players, players that play against other top players. If you are bronze, gold, High GM on Eu/Na, well, the game will change for you as well, but on that level there is no problem, of course this will feels strong, but the truth is little will change other than 1 base players going down 1 league, if that...
What will change for the bronze-gold players: you will have creep connection your main and your expansion.
What will change for plat-master: you won't have to sacrifice inject for connection your main and your expansion. You won't ever again lose a Overlord to a queen. You will scout if protoss went FFE slightly faster and might lose way less to build like 3 gate. 6 pool will work more often against terrans (metagame change).
What will change for Code S level: more than zero zergs at ro8! woot.
The thing is, the metagame will change, for everyone. The reason for these changes is so changes will be reached, do you guys understand that? Changes are needed, they aren't random. Go play the changes trying to win instead of just watching the creep coming. Do something, try your old all-ins, do try new macro builds in expectation of a non-agressive build from zergs. Understand the new metagame that will be born and abuse it, don't just give up.
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On May 03 2012 12:13 IshinShishi wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 12:10 TheRabidDeer wrote:On May 03 2012 12:08 aksfjh wrote:On May 03 2012 12:04 avilo wrote:On May 03 2012 11:38 Templare wrote:On May 03 2012 11:25 iAmJeffReY wrote:
Time to cut every single cloak banshee build I do vs toss...They already pop before you can kill 5-6 probes, especially if they PULL the probes, and chrono the robo. It, as most buffs to protoss, makes another terran unit obsolete as a harass tool, in my mind.
So...like how 1 chrono gets 2 probes out so fast...now 1 chrono will get an OB out almost instantly...
This is such a sad list of changes as a terran player. If you DON'T open up early hellions, it's almost impossible to hinder/stop creep as is. Terran has scan. If a Protoss dt rushes an unprepared Terran, it is easy for the Terran to simply scan. A Protoss player has to build a robo for detection. It is highly unlikely that every time you go for cloaked banshees that the Protoss player will even have a robotics facility. You obviously haven't played much Terran before. Now now, it's not his fault the race is mysteriously missing everywhere except Korea and Blizzard data. This just in: Thorzain mysteriously disappears This just in: Thorzain wins multiple championships, not once every year.
He said terran dont exist outside of korea and blizzard data. Thorzain just won a VERY recent tournament, over koreans. Outside of stephano, have there been foreign zergs that have won tournaments? Does that mean zerg is weak too? I mean, zerg is even being knocked out in korea! Full on panic mode, guys!
My point is just to illustrate the fact that T is not as weak as he says. Just like Z is not weak and P is not weak. The game is ludicrously close to balanced. Any lack of players of a particular race is imagined. Hell, independent statistics verify how closely balanced the game is... but that wont stop whining.
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Maybe with the queen energy change, the hydralisk might be slightly more viable than before!
But if creep spread is as bad as everyone think it could be, we might actually see a raven or two.
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If this queen starting energy buff goes through, I may be switching races. However, I don't particularly think it will go through in its current state of 50 energy. 50 energy is such an unbelievable buff for that extra creep tumor.
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They should def. keep the overlord change. I found it instantly noticable and early game scouting felt quite nice.
The queen change is super drastic. I never really play zerg and suck at starcraft 2 but I found creep spread to be so much easier.
and i don't know about the overseer change. kind of a weird thing...
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On May 03 2012 12:20 Epishade wrote:
If this queen starting energy buff goes through, I may be switching races. However, I don't particularly think it will go through in its current state of 50 energy. 50 energy is such an unbelievable buff for that extra creep tumor.
+ Show Spoiler +
Yea, that is such an imbalance.
/sarcasm
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On May 03 2012 12:16 TheDraken wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 11:32 KawaiiRice wrote:If there is nothing wrong with this image I don't know what to say to you. this proves absolutely nothing. if you leave anything alone in this game it's going to get wildly out of control. THAT'S THE POINT.
This small little change actually takes care of 2 problems: Early game all ins, and Mules.
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i'm surprised people aren't harping on the fact that the energy buff is basically a free amulet upgrade for transfuses. now you don't need to worry about waiting for queens to gain energy when you go ultra. just make several queens and wait a few seconds.
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Well this would be a good idea if the maps default setting was 1v1 instead of 2v2. Because when I join the map it just fill in instantly as a 2v2.
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On May 03 2012 09:06 Enzymatic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 09:01 Savern101 wrote:
"Protoss at the pro-level are doing well, but not at the very top of the pro-level." Eh what? 5 toss in r of 8 in GSL. GSL is the very top of Pro-level. Blizzard still not in touch. Like the zerg changes, seem cool. And I'm a T. I'm sorry when was the last time a toss player won GSL or made any noise in the GSTL? Not only that, but Toss has been a pretty big let-down in MLG lately too.
There's going to be a Protoss in the finals of GSL code S guaranteed, what the fuck more do you want?
Edit: I am sorry for replying to a post on page 1 on page 11, I just got so mad. I apologize.
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Now time to also make Antiga Shipyard cross-positions only! and a supply depot at the main-to-natural ramp to block those silly bunker/pylon block shennanigans, on all the ladder maps!
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Hmm, I am suprised no one is talking about the impact this overlord speed will have on ZvZ. Now that I believe the queens cannot catch the overlord it seems scouting in ZvZ will be automatic, even pre lair. This was already easy with a zergling run by, but I mean in the super early stage. Seems like it will make the meta game more linear but we shall see. The faster creep spread might help a bit in ZvZ to catch an overlord but I don't know if the queens can catch the overlords in time still, on most maps/terrain anyway.
On May 03 2012 12:25 kaelle_sc wrote:
Now time to also make Antiga Shipyard cross-positions only! and a supply depot at the main-to-natural ramp to block those silly bunker/pylon block shennanigans, on all the ladder maps!
Haha agreed.
Also hopefully we see more Hydra play outside of ZvZ, and maybe some nice transfusion stuff with queens, like a midgame/lategame push or to hold an all in.
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Not a fan of the observer change. They need to have pros testing that, not just random Joe Schmoes in master and below. In the hands of a Protoss who knows how to react well, I feel like that could be very imba in TvP. I trust Blizzard will revert that.
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On May 03 2012 12:21 TheRabidDeer wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 12:20 Epishade wrote:
If this queen starting energy buff goes through, I may be switching races. However, I don't particularly think it will go through in its current state of 50 energy. 50 energy is such an unbelievable buff for that extra creep tumor. + Show Spoiler +Yea, that is such an imbalance. /sarcasm
Yeah, now imagine, with the buff energy, you can actually do that in real game, vs real opponents, because they just can't put pressure on you at all.
Other than that, yeah, the creep spread speed should be the same.
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On May 03 2012 12:26 canikizu wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 12:21 TheRabidDeer wrote:On May 03 2012 12:20 Epishade wrote:
If this queen starting energy buff goes through, I may be switching races. However, I don't particularly think it will go through in its current state of 50 energy. 50 energy is such an unbelievable buff for that extra creep tumor. + Show Spoiler +Yea, that is such an imbalance. /sarcasm Yeah, now imagine, with the buff energy, you can actually do that in real game, vs real opponents, because they just can't put pressure on you at all. Other than that, yeah, the creep spread speed should be the same.
So, why cant they put pressure on you just like before?
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Why can't protoss just build more than 1 observer? It's the same as the warp prism situation. I don't use banshee's at all in TvP but at the same time this feels really stupid. Now they'll be an observer everywhere on my army, on drop locations etc unless protoss players still refuse to make them.
The reason I say it feels like warp prisms is because speed prisms are insanely overpowered, but protoss players don't utilize them at all to their full potential. Observers are amazing units but pro's don't get a second robo to squeeze them out, they haven't even attempted to cut colossus for them. It's just easier to get a templar instead of two observers with the gas.
The Queen thing is kind of silly too, if it's that big of a problem zergs just have to get an extra one to get the same effect of spreading creep. The only thing I can think of are the extra transfuses helping stabilize zvz (transfuse spine crawlers) which would be amazing, I just don't like the idea that zergs will no get free creep spread over the entire map.
The overlord change seems reasonable.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zEHdM.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/XGxed.jpg)
