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On May 03 2012 12:25 onPHYRE wrote:
Hmm, I am suprised no one is talking about the impact this overlord speed will have on ZvZ. Now that I believe the queens cannot catch the overlord it seems scouting in ZvZ will be automatic, even pre lair. This was already easy with a zergling run by, but I mean in the super early stage. Seems like it will make the meta game more linear but we shall see. The faster creep spread might help a bit in ZvZ to catch an overlord but I don't know if the queens can catch the overlords in time still, on most maps/terrain anyway..
Queens can still catch Overlords, 0.586 vs. 0.938 puts the queen faster, just not double the speed anymore. But you are forgetting something else. Queens can put down a creep tumor, and stay full speed longer as well now, so they'll easily catch the overlord with no change.
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334423¤tpage=13#247
BTW guys, at least bring a counter-proof to TheRabidDeer above or hush, you are fearing hypotheses, try the reality, then post your conclusions. And remember: it is intended to be a buff. It is intended to bring changes. If you are already in a mentality that you think nothing is needed here, then don't even test, we know it is a buff, you don't have to remember anyone! The question is, will it means that in the late game zergs will become unstoppable? The early-mid game buff is intended, but at late game you have observer, Raven(!), will that be OP? If so, they might nerf BL or something, because early game changes will still be needed...
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On May 03 2012 12:28 Pinski wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 12:25 onPHYRE wrote:
Hmm, I am suprised no one is talking about the impact this overlord speed will have on ZvZ. Now that I believe the queens cannot catch the overlord it seems scouting in ZvZ will be automatic, even pre lair. This was already easy with a zergling run by, but I mean in the super early stage. Seems like it will make the meta game more linear but we shall see. The faster creep spread might help a bit in ZvZ to catch an overlord but I don't know if the queens can catch the overlords in time still, on most maps/terrain anyway.. Queens can still catch Overlords, 0.586 vs. 0.938 puts the queen faster, just not double the speed anymore. But you are forgetting something else. Queens can put down a creep tumor, and stay full speed longer as well now, so they'll easily catch the overlord with no change.
I mentioned the extra creep helping a bit, but I more meant super early u can now easily scout roach, banes, or +1 lings. I know the queen is still faster and will get hits off, but its slow enough now where it won't be constantly shooting and the overlord can poke in, and get away much easier.
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On May 03 2012 09:03 Pinski wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 09:02 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Why the hell did they make it 2v2? I cant test 1v1 against random people if the map is set to 2v2! You can play it 1v1 ...
And on top of that, you can just have an empty slot on each team even if you are too lazy to set it to 1v1 lmao
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I like the idea of giving overlords a slight speed upgrade so zerg players can scout better but I'm not so sure if I like queens starting with double the energy. As for the Observer decrease time I actually think it is a good idea seeing as you can pump out a quick observer early game and gain that scouting information just that much quicker so you can react accordingly to what the opponent is doing. Will like to see how they play out tho.
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Just tested the new overlords, they feel much, much faster. Zerg early game scouting will be even better than Terran early game scouting now.
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The Overlord speed change does indeed seem reasonable. Not sure if Observers need to have a 25% build time reduction at all. So far the problem was not having a robo to begin with. Increasing the starting energy of Queens by that much seems overboard. I agree that 35 seems to be a better value.
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It really saddens me to see Zerg players actually defending the Queen energy buff. It's obviously going to be way too good against Stargate and Banshees, and the Creep spread isn't even really a legitimate issue against Hellion openers (which are designed to delay Creep; something they don't even do effectively against players who are smart with their tumors). It just pisses me off to see people bottling up the obvious fact that eliminating all air play against Zerg early is a bad idea. Stop trying to encourage free wins and think about the good of the game instead, please.
Other changes are silly, but at least they're not game changers.
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Sweden33723 Posts
.........
I dont have words for how dumb this is.
On May 03 2012 12:35 Empirimancer wrote:
Just tested the new overlords, they feel much, much faster. Zerg early game scouting will be even better than Terran early game scouting now.
Terran early game scouting fucking sucks so that's not much of an accomplishment.
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"overlord soooo imba" - MC
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On May 03 2012 12:36 Liquid`Jinro wrote:......... I dont have words for how dumb this is. Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 12:35 Empirimancer wrote:
Just tested the new overlords, they feel much, much faster. Zerg early game scouting will be even better than Terran early game scouting now.
Terran early game scouting fucking sucks so that's not much of an accomplishment.
Yep. The irony of all of this is that Z/P all-ins right now are 10x more effective and unscoutable vs T than Terran all-ins. Most of the Terran all-ins have already been nerfed into smithereens forcing Terrans into playing a "macro game" in which also, in a catch-22, Terrans have the worst lategame...@_@ I do not know what progamers blizzard is talking with, but they obviously are not consulting much with Terran korean progamers/Terran progamers at all.
It'll be interesting to see when Blizzard finally steps it up with their balancing and acknowledges lategame Terran issues instead of messing around with overlord movement speed...
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Dammit ><
Leave the game alone, Blizzard. I thought they'd be spending more time on HOTS rather than tinkering, yet again, with WOL.
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On May 03 2012 12:36 Liquid`Jinro wrote:......... I dont have words for how dumb this is. Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 12:35 Empirimancer wrote:
Just tested the new overlords, they feel much, much faster. Zerg early game scouting will be even better than Terran early game scouting now.
Terran early game scouting fucking sucks so that's not much of an accomplishment.
Do you disagree with both Z changes (I don't think the P one is that big anyway)? I think the overlord one is nice, not too fast, just slightly better. The Queen one might be a bit much, like people said maybe 35 energy instead of 50.
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at first the queen change seems too much, but if you think about it it's only one extra tumor per queen. it'll help with creep connecting bases obviously and initial creep spread, but it won't affect that much overall creep spread, since if you can clear 1 tumor you can surely clear an additional one.
My point being, I don't think it will be much harder to deny/clear creep, but it will certainly reduce a lot of stress for zerg players in the very early game. I think it's good. but i currentyl play zerg so maybe i'm biased, the potential change does make me very happy tho.
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On May 03 2012 12:36 Liquid`Jinro wrote:......... I dont have words for how dumb this is. Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 12:35 Empirimancer wrote:
Just tested the new overlords, they feel much, much faster. Zerg early game scouting will be even better than Terran early game scouting now.
Terran early game scouting fucking sucks so that's not much of an accomplishment.
ill trade not being able to see anything for getting 3 ccs 2 ebays and cloak banshees and hellions while being able to defend anything
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I think these zerg changes could greatly affect any early harass from terran and protoss to the point where it might be hard to abuse zergs that straight up get out of position with their queens. Hellions get in the main? Oh there is already enough creep for the queens to get there. Void rays killing your 3rd? Queens there pronto. Also a transfuse on queens that just pop out when voids come out......I wonder how this will affect spore crawler usage.
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On May 03 2012 12:41 latan wrote:
at first the queen change seems too much, but if you think about it it's only one extra tumor per queen. it'll help with creep connecting bases obviously and initial creep spread, but it won't affect that much overall creep spread, since if you can clear 1 tumor you can surely clear an additional one.
that is, I don't think it will be much harder to deny/clear creep, but it will certainly reduce a lot of stress for zerg players in the very early game.
It's a vast change. Lower level players won't see the difference, but for every high level player it's a world of difference. Spreading creep is essentially "free." All it takes is multi-task, and progamers are going to be able to cover half the map in creep by the 10 minute mark. A lot of people just do not understand how such a "tiny" change is a huge, huge, HUGE, buff.
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On May 03 2012 12:40 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 12:36 Liquid`Jinro wrote:......... I dont have words for how dumb this is. On May 03 2012 12:35 Empirimancer wrote:
Just tested the new overlords, they feel much, much faster. Zerg early game scouting will be even better than Terran early game scouting now.
Terran early game scouting fucking sucks so that's not much of an accomplishment. Yep. The irony of all of this is that Z/P all-ins right now are 10x more effective and unscoutable vs T than Terran all-ins. Most of the Terran all-ins have already been nerfed into smithereens forcing Terrans into playing a "macro game" in which also, in a catch-22, Terrans have the worst lategame...@_@ I do not know what progamers blizzard is talking with, but they obviously are not consulting much with Terran korean progamers/Terran progamers at all. It'll be interesting to see when Blizzard finally steps it up with their balancing and acknowledges lategame Terran issues instead of messing around with overlord movement speed...
It's ok, consider the fact that blizz will be looking at results of T players like Flash and Fantasy as benchmarks for t player soon. More t nerfs inc, rofl.
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On May 03 2012 12:40 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2012 12:36 Liquid`Jinro wrote:......... I dont have words for how dumb this is. On May 03 2012 12:35 Empirimancer wrote:
Just tested the new overlords, they feel much, much faster. Zerg early game scouting will be even better than Terran early game scouting now.
Terran early game scouting fucking sucks so that's not much of an accomplishment. Yep. The irony of all of this is that Z/P all-ins right now are 10x more effective and unscoutable vs T than Terran all-ins. Most of the Terran all-ins have already been nerfed into smithereens forcing Terrans into playing a "macro game" in which also, in a catch-22, Terrans have the worst lategame...@_@ I do not know what progamers blizzard is talking with, but they obviously are not consulting much with Terran korean progamers/Terran progamers at all. It'll be interesting to see when Blizzard finally steps it up with their balancing and acknowledges lategame Terran issues instead of messing around with overlord movement speed...
I'm not going to mention protoss because they aren't relevant to this change, but do you seriously feel that zerg has stronger all ins vs terran than visa verca, or is that bias speaking? I'm not going to argue that you have a much higher knowledge of the matchup than me, but from everything I've watched, and I watch a shitload of starcraft, that statement just feels... incorrect?
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I say we see how this plays out. They are just testing it, people are overreacting. As IdrA said, I'd rather be able to not scout and defend anything blind while still being economic, than be able to scout anything and still have to not only prepare perfectly but execute perfectly.
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EPT
