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Call to Action: Balance Testing (live custom map) - Page 16

Forum Index > SC2 General
2110 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 14 15 16 17 18 106 Next
Pinski
Profile Joined September 2010
United States126 Posts
May 03 2012 03:28 GMT
#301
On May 03 2012 12:25 onPHYRE wrote:
Hmm, I am suprised no one is talking about the impact this overlord speed will have on ZvZ. Now that I believe the queens cannot catch the overlord it seems scouting in ZvZ will be automatic, even pre lair. This was already easy with a zergling run by, but I mean in the super early stage. Seems like it will make the meta game more linear but we shall see. The faster creep spread might help a bit in ZvZ to catch an overlord but I don't know if the queens can catch the overlords in time still, on most maps/terrain anyway..


Queens can still catch Overlords, 0.586 vs. 0.938 puts the queen faster, just not double the speed anymore. But you are forgetting something else. Queens can put down a creep tumor, and stay full speed longer as well now, so they'll easily catch the overlord with no change.
SDream
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Brazil896 Posts
May 03 2012 03:29 GMT
#302
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=334423&currentpage=13#247

BTW guys, at least bring a counter-proof to TheRabidDeer above or hush, you are fearing hypotheses, try the reality, then post your conclusions. And remember: it is intended to be a buff. It is intended to bring changes. If you are already in a mentality that you think nothing is needed here, then don't even test, we know it is a buff, you don't have to remember anyone! The question is, will it means that in the late game zergs will become unstoppable? The early-mid game buff is intended, but at late game you have observer, Raven(!), will that be OP? If so, they might nerf BL or something, because early game changes will still be needed...
onPHYRE
Profile Joined October 2010
Bulgaria908 Posts
May 03 2012 03:31 GMT
#303
On May 03 2012 12:28 Pinski wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 12:25 onPHYRE wrote:
Hmm, I am suprised no one is talking about the impact this overlord speed will have on ZvZ. Now that I believe the queens cannot catch the overlord it seems scouting in ZvZ will be automatic, even pre lair. This was already easy with a zergling run by, but I mean in the super early stage. Seems like it will make the meta game more linear but we shall see. The faster creep spread might help a bit in ZvZ to catch an overlord but I don't know if the queens can catch the overlords in time still, on most maps/terrain anyway..


Queens can still catch Overlords, 0.586 vs. 0.938 puts the queen faster, just not double the speed anymore. But you are forgetting something else. Queens can put down a creep tumor, and stay full speed longer as well now, so they'll easily catch the overlord with no change.


I mentioned the extra creep helping a bit, but I more meant super early u can now easily scout roach, banes, or +1 lings. I know the queen is still faster and will get hits off, but its slow enough now where it won't be constantly shooting and the overlord can poke in, and get away much easier.
Livin' this life like it was written.
Demonhunter04
Profile Joined July 2011
1530 Posts
May 03 2012 03:33 GMT
#304
On May 03 2012 09:03 Pinski wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 09:02 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Why the hell did they make it 2v2? I cant test 1v1 against random people if the map is set to 2v2!


You can play it 1v1 ...


And on top of that, you can just have an empty slot on each team even if you are too lazy to set it to 1v1 lmao
"If you don't drop sweat today, you will drop tears tomorrow" - SlayerSMMA
IMHope
Profile Joined February 2011
Korea (South)1241 Posts
May 03 2012 03:33 GMT
#305
I like the idea of giving overlords a slight speed upgrade so zerg players can scout better but I'm not so sure if I like queens starting with double the energy. As for the Observer decrease time I actually think it is a good idea seeing as you can pump out a quick observer early game and gain that scouting information just that much quicker so you can react accordingly to what the opponent is doing. Will like to see how they play out tho.
Jessica Jung, Kim Taeyeon, Kwon Yuri <333
Empirimancer
Profile Joined July 2011
Canada1024 Posts
May 03 2012 03:35 GMT
#306
Just tested the new overlords, they feel much, much faster. Zerg early game scouting will be even better than Terran early game scouting now.

Proseat
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Germany5113 Posts
May 03 2012 03:36 GMT
#307
The Overlord speed change does indeed seem reasonable. Not sure if Observers need to have a 25% build time reduction at all. So far the problem was not having a robo to begin with. Increasing the starting energy of Queens by that much seems overboard. I agree that 35 seems to be a better value.
The Rise and Fall of SlayerS -- a timeline: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?id=378097
Shiori
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
3815 Posts
May 03 2012 03:36 GMT
#308
It really saddens me to see Zerg players actually defending the Queen energy buff. It's obviously going to be way too good against Stargate and Banshees, and the Creep spread isn't even really a legitimate issue against Hellion openers (which are designed to delay Creep; something they don't even do effectively against players who are smart with their tumors). It just pisses me off to see people bottling up the obvious fact that eliminating all air play against Zerg early is a bad idea. Stop trying to encourage free wins and think about the good of the game instead, please.

Other changes are silly, but at least they're not game changers.
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-03 03:38:06
May 03 2012 03:36 GMT
#309
.........
I dont have words for how dumb this is.

On May 03 2012 12:35 Empirimancer wrote:
Just tested the new overlords, they feel much, much faster. Zerg early game scouting will be even better than Terran early game scouting now.


Terran early game scouting fucking sucks so that's not much of an accomplishment.
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
TheDraken
Profile Joined July 2011
United States640 Posts
May 03 2012 03:37 GMT
#310
"overlord soooo imba" - MC
fast food. y u no make me fast? <( ಠ益ಠ <)
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-03 03:41:26
May 03 2012 03:40 GMT
#311
On May 03 2012 12:36 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
.........
I dont have words for how dumb this is.

Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 12:35 Empirimancer wrote:
Just tested the new overlords, they feel much, much faster. Zerg early game scouting will be even better than Terran early game scouting now.


Terran early game scouting fucking sucks so that's not much of an accomplishment.


Yep. The irony of all of this is that Z/P all-ins right now are 10x more effective and unscoutable vs T than Terran all-ins. Most of the Terran all-ins have already been nerfed into smithereens forcing Terrans into playing a "macro game" in which also, in a catch-22, Terrans have the worst lategame...@_@ I do not know what progamers blizzard is talking with, but they obviously are not consulting much with Terran korean progamers/Terran progamers at all.

It'll be interesting to see when Blizzard finally steps it up with their balancing and acknowledges lategame Terran issues instead of messing around with overlord movement speed...
Sup
aZealot
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
New Zealand5447 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-03 03:41:52
May 03 2012 03:41 GMT
#312
Dammit ><

Leave the game alone, Blizzard. I thought they'd be spending more time on HOTS rather than tinkering, yet again, with WOL.
KT best KT ~ 2014
onPHYRE
Profile Joined October 2010
Bulgaria908 Posts
May 03 2012 03:41 GMT
#313
On May 03 2012 12:36 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
.........
I dont have words for how dumb this is.

Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 12:35 Empirimancer wrote:
Just tested the new overlords, they feel much, much faster. Zerg early game scouting will be even better than Terran early game scouting now.


Terran early game scouting fucking sucks so that's not much of an accomplishment.



Do you disagree with both Z changes (I don't think the P one is that big anyway)? I think the overlord one is nice, not too fast, just slightly better. The Queen one might be a bit much, like people said maybe 35 energy instead of 50.
Livin' this life like it was written.
latan
Profile Joined July 2010
740 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-03 03:43:43
May 03 2012 03:41 GMT
#314
at first the queen change seems too much, but if you think about it it's only one extra tumor per queen. it'll help with creep connecting bases obviously and initial creep spread, but it won't affect that much overall creep spread, since if you can clear 1 tumor you can surely clear an additional one.

My point being, I don't think it will be much harder to deny/clear creep, but it will certainly reduce a lot of stress for zerg players in the very early game. I think it's good. but i currentyl play zerg so maybe i'm biased, the potential change does make me very happy tho.
IdrA
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States11541 Posts
May 03 2012 03:42 GMT
#315
On May 03 2012 12:36 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
.........
I dont have words for how dumb this is.

Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 12:35 Empirimancer wrote:
Just tested the new overlords, they feel much, much faster. Zerg early game scouting will be even better than Terran early game scouting now.


Terran early game scouting fucking sucks so that's not much of an accomplishment.

ill trade not being able to see anything for getting 3 ccs 2 ebays and cloak banshees and hellions while being able to defend anything
http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available
shockaslim
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1104 Posts
May 03 2012 03:42 GMT
#316
I think these zerg changes could greatly affect any early harass from terran and protoss to the point where it might be hard to abuse zergs that straight up get out of position with their queens. Hellions get in the main? Oh there is already enough creep for the queens to get there. Void rays killing your 3rd? Queens there pronto. Also a transfuse on queens that just pop out when voids come out......I wonder how this will affect spore crawler usage.
Dirty Deeds...DONE DIRT CHEAP!!!
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-03 03:43:33
May 03 2012 03:43 GMT
#317
On May 03 2012 12:41 latan wrote:
at first the queen change seems too much, but if you think about it it's only one extra tumor per queen. it'll help with creep connecting bases obviously and initial creep spread, but it won't affect that much overall creep spread, since if you can clear 1 tumor you can surely clear an additional one.

that is, I don't think it will be much harder to deny/clear creep, but it will certainly reduce a lot of stress for zerg players in the very early game.


It's a vast change. Lower level players won't see the difference, but for every high level player it's a world of difference. Spreading creep is essentially "free." All it takes is multi-task, and progamers are going to be able to cover half the map in creep by the 10 minute mark. A lot of people just do not understand how such a "tiny" change is a huge, huge, HUGE, buff.
Sup
Fission
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada1184 Posts
May 03 2012 03:43 GMT
#318
On May 03 2012 12:40 avilo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 12:36 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
.........
I dont have words for how dumb this is.

On May 03 2012 12:35 Empirimancer wrote:
Just tested the new overlords, they feel much, much faster. Zerg early game scouting will be even better than Terran early game scouting now.


Terran early game scouting fucking sucks so that's not much of an accomplishment.


Yep. The irony of all of this is that Z/P all-ins right now are 10x more effective and unscoutable vs T than Terran all-ins. Most of the Terran all-ins have already been nerfed into smithereens forcing Terrans into playing a "macro game" in which also, in a catch-22, Terrans have the worst lategame...@_@ I do not know what progamers blizzard is talking with, but they obviously are not consulting much with Terran korean progamers/Terran progamers at all.

It'll be interesting to see when Blizzard finally steps it up with their balancing and acknowledges lategame Terran issues instead of messing around with overlord movement speed...


It's ok, consider the fact that blizz will be looking at results of T players like Flash and Fantasy as benchmarks for t player soon. More t nerfs inc, rofl.
MegaFonzie
Profile Joined April 2011
Australia1084 Posts
May 03 2012 03:43 GMT
#319
On May 03 2012 12:40 avilo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2012 12:36 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
.........
I dont have words for how dumb this is.

On May 03 2012 12:35 Empirimancer wrote:
Just tested the new overlords, they feel much, much faster. Zerg early game scouting will be even better than Terran early game scouting now.


Terran early game scouting fucking sucks so that's not much of an accomplishment.


Yep. The irony of all of this is that Z/P all-ins right now are 10x more effective and unscoutable vs T than Terran all-ins. Most of the Terran all-ins have already been nerfed into smithereens forcing Terrans into playing a "macro game" in which also, in a catch-22, Terrans have the worst lategame...@_@ I do not know what progamers blizzard is talking with, but they obviously are not consulting much with Terran korean progamers/Terran progamers at all.

It'll be interesting to see when Blizzard finally steps it up with their balancing and acknowledges lategame Terran issues instead of messing around with overlord movement speed...


I'm not going to mention protoss because they aren't relevant to this change, but do you seriously feel that zerg has stronger all ins vs terran than visa verca, or is that bias speaking? I'm not going to argue that you have a much higher knowledge of the matchup than me, but from everything I've watched, and I watch a shitload of starcraft, that statement just feels... incorrect?
@x5_MegaFonzie
onPHYRE
Profile Joined October 2010
Bulgaria908 Posts
May 03 2012 03:44 GMT
#320
I say we see how this plays out. They are just testing it, people are overreacting. As IdrA said, I'd rather be able to not scout and defend anything blind while still being economic, than be able to scout anything and still have to not only prepare perfectly but execute perfectly.
Livin' this life like it was written.
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