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ClouD's World #1 - Caster/Player situation - Page 7

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Prev 1 5 6 7 8 9 34 Next All
TheCupholder
Profile Joined April 2012
Canada58 Posts
May 01 2012 17:08 GMT
#121
I think that current "famous" casters really should have a better grasp on the game, GSL does a good job, they don't need to be top pros to know what is going on, but tastosis is great (if they don't know enough, who does? tasteless knows all). I think the solution to this problem is for better gamers to start community casting and get noticed. I really don't like many of the MLG people the rob guy knows roughly the same as my bronze league friends haha... But everyone! listen, we all are disappointed in the knowledge of the casters and the same stupid facts the give about match ups we have seen and heard for ever- SOMONE go do a better job on their stream, and if you don't want to do this give other streams a chance. I am a high diamond toss and since summer is starting so I'm planning on commentating my play, who knows it might be good, but give others a chance. I like how mlg has grubby now , I think with tastosis they were the best casters and its true you really can tell he knows the game well. No offence to some of the other MLG casters but I really don't think they would be missed if they started experimenting with more (knowledgeable) casters- however, knowledge doesn't mean they can communicate well, I didn't really find QXC that great at the last mlg because he was kinda critical and seemed not to get his point across

-So if you have a problem with casters, support other ones, or start doing it yourself!!!
<3 :) GO: HUK LEENOCK PARTING SEED SQUIRTLE :)
OzVelas
Profile Joined September 2011
Bulgaria516 Posts
May 01 2012 17:10 GMT
#122
I dont like cloud, but we share the same taste about caster . I only like artosis-tast apollo-tb and rott-bitter.
cybertopo
Profile Joined February 2010
Spain525 Posts
May 01 2012 17:12 GMT
#123
Mad respect for Cloud, not being afraid to touch this delicate subject. Go Giancarlo!
Hurr Durr
leperphilliac
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States399 Posts
May 01 2012 17:12 GMT
#124
I see a lot of "personally" "in my opinion" and "I think" in this thread, which is baaad. How can we claim to know the motivations of a person who we haven't even met yet? Yeah sure many myself included do have biases for and against certain casters, but to judge them without even knowing them apart from their public persona is just wrong.
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-01 17:20:59
May 01 2012 17:14 GMT
#125
On May 02 2012 02:07 Tassadarstarcraft2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 02 2012 02:03 Otolia wrote:
Another one of ClouD "events", this guy are serious issues. He is bad at SC2, he never achieved anything of note and when he has an issue with something it has always something to do with money.

He isn't discussing anything he is just randomly pointing fingers at people.


no no and once again no
cloud is awesome for talking about problems in e-sports
and as darkforce said, not everyone is doing that!


maybe so but at the same time, cloud has put 0 effort in to marketing himself and is complaining about people who do market themselves.

this isnt a problem with esports, its a fact of business. you think the richest teams in the world are always the best? hardly. most of the time they are all about marketing themselves, and people like cloud sit on their chairs complaining about it as if its ever gonna change.

if he wants to get paid more he needs to be worth more. when was he last on sotg? or kings of tin? where are his interviews during events? why does he post his thoughts on some other site and then not bother to cross post to TL, leaving it to some fan to draw in new viewers.

he isnt even trying to make more money for himself but he wants to complain about people who do.

people like to bitch at incontrol about spending too much time on shows and shit, but the fact is that incontrol probably puts in more hours into a "career" than cloud does, and gets paid more accordingly. cloud may or may not spend more time on SC than incontrol but the total time invested is much higher by EG players.

On May 02 2012 02:12 leperphilliac wrote:
I see a lot of "personally" "in my opinion" and "I think" in this thread, which is baaad. How can we claim to know the motivations of a person who we haven't even met yet? Yeah sure many myself included do have biases for and against certain casters, but to judge them without even knowing them apart from their public persona is just wrong.


you would prefer we say "i know this other person thinks this" ?
Befree
Profile Joined April 2010
695 Posts
May 01 2012 17:27 GMT
#126
While I don't usually like complaining, I like his honesty and I think that its valuable to the community to have players speak their mind.

I also must agree that at times I am simply baffled by the lack of understanding of casters. It doesn't make me turn off the cast or anything, but it just annoys me in that I find it so confusing as to why they do not know more. I just cannot understand how you can watch hours of games a week and [maybe?] play the game and still be ignorant. As I listen to the casts, sometimes I just sit there and get so distracted by the questions going through my head on how could someone possibly learn so little? How could someone specialized in such a specific field have so little actual specialization in it?

I've always been more of a viewer than a player, and within the last year my games played is very low, and during a long period I didn't even watch any SC2. But yet somehow I am able to have a better understanding than people whose jobs are solely devoted to commentating on this game for 2 years? I wonder how can this be. Do they specifically try to remain ignorant? Do they dumb down their casts purposely? I'm sure that they must have a brain that is perfectly fine and their learning ability should be just fine, so why? Why are they not knowledgeable? This is my biggest annoyance in watching casts, being frustrated with questions of how could they not know more.

--

Another part of all this I think lies with teams not promoting their players well enough. If you notice EG and Liquid games, you'll see they always get a lot higher viewership. People really seem to care about those players. Is it because they're specifically that much better than everyone else? Not really. It's because we actually are able to feel like we know them and we start to care about how they do. When you look at a lot of other teams out there, most people really have no idea about those players aside from a few tidbits on their race and style. There's no narrative to lots of these other teams, no reason for anyone to care about whether they win.

I think tournaments, casters, team managers, and players all need to work toward creating a feeling of a more personal connection for fans with their players.
LeafBlower
Profile Joined April 2010
United States115 Posts
May 01 2012 17:31 GMT
#127
I agree with a lot of what ClouD said, even if it isn't a really big issue imo. He doesn't and will never be able to understand the perspective of the casual gamer, who makes up the very large majority.. They don't give a shit about a very in-depth insight, and will enjoy casting as long as people are feigning excitement and making up any theories about what is going on. When I went to MLG Raleigh last year and sat in the crowd, I was amazed at how many people were really ignorant about high level strategy and were claiming to know exactly why one player did a certain thing. Then I ask what league they're in and they say gold...

Overall it seems like there are 3 distinctive types of casters. Those who are really insightful and passionate (artosis, tasteless, apollo, bitterdam, etc), those who are passionate and try hard but aren't really knowledgeable (catspajamas), and then people who don't give a shit and just do it for publicity/money (painuser/orb).

Luckily I think most people who don't give a shit about casting professionally don't get paid too much, which like ClouD said would be really bad.
socommaster123
Profile Joined May 2010
United States578 Posts
May 01 2012 17:34 GMT
#128
Without casters who have personality SC2 would be weaker then it already is.
Idra White Ra Sheth DRG SaSe Thorzain GOGO!
Adebisi
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada1637 Posts
May 01 2012 17:36 GMT
#129
That video was pretty silly. Obviously players will have better analysis, kind of goes without saying. Furthermore I think he dramatically overestimates how much money casters make, most of them have means of making money that they rely on over casting major tournaments. djWHEAT with TwitchTV, Day9 with the Day9 Daily, and so on. The casters really making major amounts of money from strictly casting games are really the ones sitting on YouTube with 50k-500k loyal subscribers, and the fact is those people could probably put up videos of themselves brushing their teeth or showering while singing Hanson and get just about as many views.

Overall it seems like there are 3 distinctive types of casters. Those who are really insightful and passionate (artosis, tasteless, apollo, bitterdam, etc), those who are passionate and try hard but aren't really knowledgeable (catspajamas), and then people who don't give a shit and just do it for publicity/money (painuser/orb).


Pretty sure the people you list as doing casting for the money/publicity would make more money flipping burgers at McDonalds....
Littlemuff
Profile Joined August 2011
United Kingdom301 Posts
May 01 2012 17:36 GMT
#130
Tasteless is the only one that i dont think should be in the position he is. Think it was on the 2GD show where 2GD was talking to Incontrol about how Tasteless doesnt know much about the game. Incontrol said something like its Tasteless role is to ask Artosis questions. So lets put it into perspective. Tasteless gets sent around the world, earns enough money to sustain himself in another country, just to ask Artosis questions on stream. Dont get me wrong, TB is similar by not knowing much about the game and sometimes says stupid things, but atleast he does tons loads for the players and the community.
Paramo
Profile Joined July 2008
Mexico138 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-01 17:44:55
May 01 2012 17:42 GMT
#131
I think that arguing that a caster’s job is just to analyze/commentate the game is a bit shortsighted. Maybe in BW that was the case because were the game was at and its possibilities of growth, but in SC2 a caster is also in charge of communicating an image that is good for attracting new/casual viewers and securing sponsors. I believe that many casters succeed because they are able to communicate such an image and that is something that should be rewarded. Maybe it is currently overestimated but that it is also hard to argue if you agree that the main goal of SC2 is to become mainstream.
Ricemagical
Profile Joined November 2010
270 Posts
May 01 2012 17:45 GMT
#132
If you're complaining about mid-low tier pro players compared to the dozen 'well known casters', well thats kind of a silly comparison when there's just as many players if not more making a comfortable living out of playing professionally with their salaries/prizes and so on. Especially when you consider the casters who are trying to make a name for themselves with their youtube casts.
S_SienZ
Profile Joined September 2011
1878 Posts
May 01 2012 17:46 GMT
#133
On May 02 2012 02:36 Littlemuff wrote:
Tasteless is the only one that i dont think should be in the position he is. Think it was on the 2GD show where 2GD was talking to Incontrol about how Tasteless doesnt know much about the game. Incontrol said something like its Tasteless role is to ask Artosis questions. So lets put it into perspective. Tasteless gets sent around the world, earns enough money to sustain himself in another country, just to ask Artosis questions on stream. Dont get me wrong, TB is similar by not knowing much about the game and sometimes says stupid things, but atleast he does tons loads for the players and the community.

To be fair though, most of the time he only does that because he realises Artosis knows more about the game than him. He seems to cast in a fairly different style with other casters, a rare occurrence in itself so it's hard to show.
Fym
Profile Joined October 2009
United Kingdom189 Posts
May 01 2012 17:46 GMT
#134
just wait for the broodwar pros to dominate, then their winnings will be way higher than casters
If you wanna be a good chef, you dont make fish n chips.
Ricemagical
Profile Joined November 2010
270 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-01 17:48:05
May 01 2012 17:47 GMT
#135
On May 02 2012 02:46 Fym wrote:
just wait for the broodwar pros to dominate, then their winnings will be way higher than casters

That would mean that the current pros would have an even harder time sustaining themselves D;
InVerno
Profile Joined May 2011
258 Posts
May 01 2012 17:48 GMT
#136
Sure, if i say something unusual and strange, criticisms of some "internet dogmas", i will be on the mouth of everyone.

\not

Well. I see no mentions about nohands-protoss-players.
Seems a sort of improvement.
saynomore
Profile Joined October 2011
Norway149 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-01 17:55:26
May 01 2012 17:51 GMT
#137
On May 02 2012 02:27 Befree wrote:
While I don't usually like complaining, I like his honesty and I think that its valuable to the community to have players speak their mind.

I also must agree that at times I am simply baffled by the lack of understanding of casters. It doesn't make me turn off the cast or anything, but it just annoys me in that I find it so confusing as to why they do not know more.


I have been muting most streams for a year or so now. It is really depressing how bad most casters are.
Apollo is the only good or even remotely decent as a caster outside of the GSL. GSL Code A and GSTL is the few streams I dont mute the casters on now days, as tasteless is so depressingly bad. At least watching Wolf and Apollo in the last Dreamhack was a little bit of fresh air. Two commentators who are actually decent casting together, a rare sight in pro SC2 unfortunately.

Watching Khaldor and Artosis cast the Code S matches was the best cast I have heard in ages. I wish most casters stepped up their game and had more than platinum level of understanding.
And no, being a play-by-play commentator is not an excuse for lack of knowledge or insight into the game.

On May 02 2012 02:31 LeafBlower wrote:
Overall it seems like there are 3 distinctive types of casters. Those who are really insightful and passionate (artosis, tasteless, apollo, bitterdam, etc)

Oh wow. Dont make me laugh. Have you heard his cast the last 4 months? Maybe back in Open season 1-3 he was decent. Now he is utterly terrible and it is clear that he have no insight about the game, at all. I cant say I am afraid that he will steal my ladder points anymore to say it that way.
I dont like you
LeafBlower
Profile Joined April 2010
United States115 Posts
May 01 2012 17:52 GMT
#138
On May 02 2012 02:36 Adebisi wrote:


Pretty sure the people you list as doing casting for the money/publicity would make more money flipping burgers at McDonalds....


I agree, but it seems as if their intentions are to make a quick and easy buck off of it. If that is the case they shouldn't be hired for any type of casting work. It kind of insults the people like khaldor who actually spend up to 8 hours a day learning the game, doing stuff to promote themselves, and consider it a "real job". Although i could be completely wrong about painuser, he could just be asked to do these small one time casting events and say "why not?". However, large companies should really consider using different people as he is a horrible caster imo. He basically just laughs all the time at stupid things and makes really bad jokes while primarily doing a play by play summary of what's going on.
nemonic
Profile Joined November 2011
132 Posts
May 01 2012 17:55 GMT
#139
I don't see why people think what ClouD did there was "courageous". Ranting about people without giving them the opportunity to defend themselves directly is actually rather coward. You shouldn't underestimated his influence on viewers. If he thinks some casters suck and must talk about it in public, he should do it in a discussion group or sth similar but definitely not this way.
A-BomB
Profile Joined January 2011
Ireland79 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-01 17:57:07
May 01 2012 17:55 GMT
#140
i 100% percent agree with cloud on this subject and also cloud says it the way it is so respect to him for that,
heres what i think in order of preference

THE GOOD CASTERS
Grubby
Rotterdam
Artosis
Dapollo
Wolf
Incontrol
khaldor
Total biscuit

THE "I WILL TOLERATE YOU CASTERS" CASTERS
DJWheat
day9
MRBitter
Gretorb

THE BAD CASTERS
tasteless ( im sorry)
DOA
Painuser
CatsPajamas
that guy with gretorb
HD
ORB
EDIT:forgot to put JP at the botom of the list,well i guess he beats rob simpson

THE OMG WTF GET OUT OF ESPORTS CASTERS
ROB SIMPSON
ROB SIMPSON
ROB SIMPSON

User was temp banned for this post.
A-BOMB on http://www.justin.tv/abombtv (high level protoss stream)
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