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On May 02 2012 19:24 WhosTheSmuRf wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 19:21 MadDog` wrote:
Casters needs to entertain their viewers.. I mean.. It's not like day9 is casting to ClouD, day9 is casting to fans, and I think he has everything needed to do it almost perfectly. 90% of viewers are just casual players, they don't care about the deepest insights of the freakin game, they care about fun, hype, entertainment. I think the most entertainment casts for most people where those at the homestory cup where the pro players were casting games. That can't be a coincidence
Yeah its been really entertaining when ENTERTAINING and fun pros like MC, Naama or drunken Bling were casting, not when ClouD with the charisma of an brick was casting :D
edit: just to clarify,i respect cloud as a player and maybe his casting in italian is way better and really good, but theres an difference between entertaining every kind of viewer and give reasonable analysis or dry in-depth analysis,which will keep casual players or people that dont even play at all away.
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it's stupid to think that casuals will not be attracted by good in depth analysis (while maintaning a fun and charming cast)
if a casual see's the depth of the game, he can get amazed by what's possible and this shows him that it's not just random like he thinks it is in silver league.
no one likes to invest much time in something that seems random.
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On May 01 2012 23:46 yoigen wrote:
Totally agree with him, except that I think Apollo is by far the best caster(and one of the best observers) right now and I don't like catspyjamas.
This! Exactly what i think as well.
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Bashing day9, then saying that Khaldor is a good caster -_-
I don't know I think it kills the legitimacy of the video right there.
EDIT:
Oh wait saw the rest and I agree.
But I still don't like khaldor as a caster.
And Day9 spend most of his time producing sc2 content so I wouldn't say the money he get is entirely undeserved.
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i think that he is mainly pointing out that casters tend to make statments that are just incorrect or shaky at best. concidently i like cloud like tb mainly as a play by play caster but also because he dosent act like he knows everything about the game. There times when i watch casts and i literally facepalm when casters just make statements that are just incorrect ,ignore key facts (my personal favorite is when they say "X play is on 5 base, Y player is on 3 base") except the 5 bases have no workers.....
the korean commentators are miles ahead mainly because they can be entertaining but also relate what is happening at that moment and its greater significance in the game i.e. what is the consequence of the current action taking place in the wider scope of the overall game.
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Pretty much agree with Cloud on most points. Sure, probably a bit harsh about it, but undoubtedly as a pro player it bugs him even more so than anyone else and I'm sure the majority of other progamers feel the same way, especially the underrated players that deserve more attention.
But hey, it's what the people want to see.
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On May 02 2012 20:03 Celadan wrote:
Bashing day9, then saying that Khaldor is a good caster -_-
I don't know I think it kills the legitimacy of the video right there.
that is probably because khaldor is actively working on his casting, feedback and does fine when casting with others. day9 on the other hand is a great analist but has no synergy whatsoever with whomever, unless you start counting hacks like djwheat?
User was temp banned for this post.
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also he specifically states he respects Khaldor as a play by play caster, not an analytical caster. People listen to the arguments before you make up your mind.
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On May 02 2012 20:13 clownfish wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 20:03 Celadan wrote:
Bashing day9, then saying that Khaldor is a good caster -_-
I don't know I think it kills the legitimacy of the video right there. that is probably because khaldor is actively working on his casting, feedback and does fine when casting with others. day9 on the other hand is a great analist but has no synergy whatsoever with whomever, unless you start counting hacks like djwheat?
Calling djwheat a hack? Are you fucking serious?
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Why doesn't Cloud start a weekly show where he analyses casts? If Day9 is talking non-sense in a certain situation, you just show the audience and make your point. Thats business right there.
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I have to admit I can't understand why Painuser's ladder stream is featured on Teamliquid when there are plenty of GM players who aren't featured.
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On May 02 2012 20:16 Fragile51 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 20:13 clownfish wrote:On May 02 2012 20:03 Celadan wrote:
Bashing day9, then saying that Khaldor is a good caster -_-
I don't know I think it kills the legitimacy of the video right there. that is probably because khaldor is actively working on his casting, feedback and does fine when casting with others. day9 on the other hand is a great analist but has no synergy whatsoever with whomever, unless you start counting hacks like djwheat? Calling djwheat a hack? Are you fucking serious?
wouldnt even rate him above orb and when he starts his fake laughing at terrible jokes i'd rather listen to milkies.
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On May 01 2012 23:43 amityXixo wrote:Thought about it alot myself. There are so many players which could make they're life easier and get better paid by becoming caster. And so many casters who work a fraction of the time those pro's do and still get better paid. 'Like that ClouD is calling those topics out. Edit: Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 23:43 Silo Phylumists wrote:
Casters are the cornerstones of the SC2 scene right now. They are the ones conveying excitement and energy to the people watching, this is not a skill everyone has or can learn. On top of that, do you know the schedules from the GSL casters? They work full time. So to say that the casters are leeching off SC2 popularity is plain ignorant. ClouD mentioned that those gsl casters do they're job good. He "blamed" the " foreigner caster" where its obvious that he didnt' exclude the korean speaking caster but the ones living over there.
So Cloud is a closet racist?
OT: We needforeign casters like the oneswehave now, to attack the foreign crowd. However, they DO act a bit unproffesional at times, But so do the korean casters. So does the players from both regions. I say, give them some space to have fun, since the point of any game/sport/what-ever-hobby-you-have is to have fun.
ALSO: Stop acting like what koreans or other asians says are the gospel truth. Their oppenions do now reign surpreme to american, european or russian openions.
And for the love of fucking everyone, We need some equality in this esport:
A. When we are in Korean tournaments like GSL, then every non-korean willbe categorized as "foreigners".
B. This should work both ways. When we have a european tournament like DreamHack, Copenhagen Games or The Gathering, then Americans AND Koreans will be the "foreigners". At NASL and MLG, etc, Then Europeans and Koreans should be categorized as "foreigners".
C. You guys need to realize, that there is no such thing as an overwhelming difference between the KR, EU and NA ladder or players. The differences exist, but it is no where near as big as people make itup to be.
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Of course ClouD is right to some extent. I personally wouldn't be bashing on day[9] - I find his shows informative and well-thought, unless someone points out his mistakes during dailies. But examples of HD - until the topic with feedback was created, are true.
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On May 02 2012 19:49 kinglemon wrote:
it's stupid to think that casuals will not be attracted by good in depth analysis (while maintaning a fun and charming cast)
if a casual see's the depth of the game, he can get amazed by what's possible and this shows him that it's not just random like he thinks it is in silver league.
no one likes to invest much time in something that seems random.
I mostly agree.
In-depth analysis is great even for casuals... unless it only gets presented by someone as energetic and charismatic as for example IdrA (no offense to him. he's probably one of the best analysts out there but, well, i still can't listen to him for long).
I see a great casting future for people like TLO or Sheth (or as already existing example Grubby) because they have great in-depth insight but also have the natural charisma and personality to draw in the viewers and make the cast enjoyable. One without the other will never work. That is why dual casts will always be superior to solo casts (and i still dream of a triple cast of TB,dApollo and TLO), they can far more easily provide both analysis and charisma, even better if one or both casters have an excess of both attributes.
As for ClouDs argument about casters earning more money for less work... it is not wrong but quite exaggerated. Yes, there are casters who don't work 40h a week and still earn more money than "60h a week practice" progamers. Eventually, those <40h casters will disappear and the >40h casters will stay.
On another note, money for casters is a lot less "available" than for players. There are 10 tournaments every single day which progamers can use to earn money and which usually get casted by casters that don't earn non-ad-related money from it. It's not a lot of money per tournament but it sums up to quite a lot every month.
The "big" casters (Day9,Husky,...) only cast about 1 event every month, sometimes even less, sometimes a little more. A lot like seasonal work, they have to make sure the money is enough to sustain them for some time in which they might not get to cast another event, so they have to charge more money due to the unreliable nature of their work.
Sure, they have other sources of income - Youtube, stream subscribers, ... - but then, progamers get money from their teams and - in many cases - streams, too.
TL;DR: Neither casters nor players have it easy.
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Inside the Game got it right in response to this. Listen to iNcontroL. Guy knows what he's talking about. IdrA calling SC2 shit to Painuser's face provided a lot of lolz as well!
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ClouD is very good at whining about things, he does it a lot. In fact... I can't remember seeing or hearing anything from ClouD where he didn't whine about someone or something.
I think ClouD is a decent player but he really should keep his mouth shut because only nonsense comes out of it.
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Even if you don't like Clouds way of iniciating topics and blaming some people personally, he's making good points. To present the game correctly is so important and there is so much room for most of the casters to improve.
Professionalism isn't only to wear a jacket and remember the sponsors correctly. You have to understand what you are talking about and to know how to explain things and delivering some true emotions to the audience.
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On May 02 2012 20:39 DrHiggins wrote:
Inside the Game got it right in response to this. Listen to iNcontroL. Guy knows what he's talking about. IdrA calling SC2 shit to Painuser's face provided a lot of lolz as well!
Yeah, they did a good job discussing this without stirring up too much controversy about this topic.
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little dogs bark louder than the big ones
first thing to point out is that if cloud was any good at strategical thinking, he would understand why casters are so popular right now and that the things are about to change in near future;
but he isn't- and no wonder why he acts as our european desrow, acting as a pro and still being amazingly awful player
secondly, his only way to drag attention to himself is to complain- same thing occured when he posted that topic about serious delays in paying out winnings- he basically should be the least interested person as the one who barerly won anything and still bitched here and there the most (not questioning that it was the right decision to bring this topic to the public)
no off
peaceyo
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EPT
