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On May 02 2012 13:28 JoeSchmoe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 10:50 Hot_Bid wrote:On May 02 2012 10:11 Disposition1989 wrote:On May 02 2012 09:55 MVTaylor wrote:
Glad Cloud came out and said it.
As IdrA reinforced on Inside The Game tonight, top casters like Day[9] do make a stupid amount of money, and the fact he tries to pretend this isn't the case is really annoying. how is this annoying? id say its annoying for players to reveal stuff like this about the casters. no player salaries are ever revealed (as it should be), so why should the casters reveal theirs? should they apologise for SUCCEEDING? Also, is it really that stupid that Day9 would make a lot of money? I don't know how much money Day9 makes but I hope he makes a shitton of money. Why? He's the #1 most popular caster in our scene. Of course he should make a lot of money? Is it really that weird? For example, the biggest sports commentators make 5+ million dollars a year. The best professional athletes make four or five times that much, Kobe makes like 20mil+. Now you might say, Hot_Bid, Kobe makes 4x as much as Bob Costas, but Day9 might outearn the biggest pro gamer. Well no shit, Kobe is about a thousands more popular than Bob Costas, but Day brings a huge fanbase that rivals just about any top player. So I ask again, would it really be that weird if he made as much or more? You guys act like it's a bad thing that people who are the #1 best person at what they do makes a lot of money. That it's somehow "undeserved." He's the best in the world at it. There is literally nobody better at the skill that he does that hundreds of thousands of people watch, and somehow it's wrong to make six figures doing it? Come on. your analogy of day9 to kobe is completely wrong. kobe makes so much money because he's one of the best in the sport. there's no denying it. give it a couple more years and you can toss his name in the likes of chamberlain and jordan. day9 is not the best caster. not by a long shot.
day9 is the most popular caster in the world and it is by a long shot. Dude has nearly 110,000 followers on Twitter. Artosis has 65,000. Idra has just under 50,000 followers on twitter.
Kobe makes so much money because he is worth. He proves that worth with his play. Day9 makes so much money because he is worth it. He brings in a TON of viewers. What other sc2 figure can you bring in that has the popularity of Day9? NONE.
You know why Day9 makes so much money? Because so many people love the dude. When he is casting a tournament more people tune in. Simple as that. No one else has as much of an impact on viewers like that.
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Glad to see well known people posting in this thread, its come to a point I think where we need to start demanding better casting.
Its been like this for far too long.
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On May 02 2012 13:40 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 13:34 fmjwizard wrote:On May 02 2012 13:02 Severian wrote:On May 02 2012 12:55 faction123 wrote:
I'd just like to point out that top players could easily make $40-50/hr just streaming with ads if they wanted to. If it's money you want, there's your answer.
Stream revenue is much more dependant on your established fanbase and your nationality than it is on your skill level, and very few streamers make that much money. Lots of Code S/Code A players don't get a tenth the viewers that IdrA does. Look at the viewer count right now. ForGG - 380, IdrA - 4750. Sometimes i don't get the distortion in returns in favor of Idra. He gets viewers because of only two main reasons. 1. A craze for notoriety from foreign fans that makes up his so called 'personality'. 2. He is a foreigner who speaks the foreigners' languange. Another other reasons worth noting? I mean, there is the other point of, whether you hate him or not, he is probably the second best foreign zerg after Stephano. Yea he loses a lot and hasn't won much recently, but look at the people he plays against, it's almost exclusively top Koreans. Regardless of your feelings for him, it's denial to say he's not a great player.
Nope he is not a great player.
A great player should not be known for his bad behavior and should be a role model especially so when this is a video game that is also targeted to teens.
A great player needs to consistently post results justifying his reason to be great.
Former GSL champions like Polt, Jjakji has significantly far less viewers than this unruly antii-hero.
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On May 02 2012 13:42 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 13:28 JoeSchmoe wrote:On May 02 2012 10:50 Hot_Bid wrote:On May 02 2012 10:11 Disposition1989 wrote:On May 02 2012 09:55 MVTaylor wrote:
Glad Cloud came out and said it.
As IdrA reinforced on Inside The Game tonight, top casters like Day[9] do make a stupid amount of money, and the fact he tries to pretend this isn't the case is really annoying. how is this annoying? id say its annoying for players to reveal stuff like this about the casters. no player salaries are ever revealed (as it should be), so why should the casters reveal theirs? should they apologise for SUCCEEDING? Also, is it really that stupid that Day9 would make a lot of money? I don't know how much money Day9 makes but I hope he makes a shitton of money. Why? He's the #1 most popular caster in our scene. Of course he should make a lot of money? Is it really that weird? For example, the biggest sports commentators make 5+ million dollars a year. The best professional athletes make four or five times that much, Kobe makes like 20mil+. Now you might say, Hot_Bid, Kobe makes 4x as much as Bob Costas, but Day9 might outearn the biggest pro gamer. Well no shit, Kobe is about a thousands more popular than Bob Costas, but Day brings a huge fanbase that rivals just about any top player. So I ask again, would it really be that weird if he made as much or more? You guys act like it's a bad thing that people who are the #1 best person at what they do makes a lot of money. That it's somehow "undeserved." He's the best in the world at it. There is literally nobody better at the skill that he does that hundreds of thousands of people watch, and somehow it's wrong to make six figures doing it? Come on. your analogy of day9 to kobe is completely wrong. kobe makes so much money because he's one of the best in the sport. there's no denying it. give it a couple more years and you can toss his name in the likes of chamberlain and jordan. day9 is not the best caster. not by a long shot. day9 is the most popular caster in the world and it is by a long shot. Dude has nearly 110,000 followers on Twitter. Artosis has 65,000. Idra has just under 50,000 followers on twitter. Kobe makes so much money because he is worth. He proves that worth with his play. Day9 makes so much money because he is worth it. He brings in a TON of viewers. What other sc2 figure can you bring in that has the popularity of Day9? NONE. You know why Day9 makes so much money? Because so many people love the dude. When he is casting a tournament more people tune in. Simple as that. No one else has as much of an impact on viewers like that.
TBH Day9 can't really do a good livecast. I feel he is much more introverted in nature as compared to his brother. To do livecast another essential quality to have would be an extroversion personality as compared to introversion. When you are extroverted you have a better inclination to do better public speaking.
He lacks that. He is much more suited to do productions that gives him ample time to prepare, less eyes, and also time to think things deeply. He can't really produce insights off the cuff if you follow his gigs.
On the good side of things; he is up there more so due to his unwavering COMMITMENT.
All these are just purely my opinions.
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Cloud i have nothing against you and i like honest people but:
The TLO comment is not only completely out of place in the video, it's also a very stupid thing to say.
I have no idea what your definition of a good player is. To me a player who places at the top of gm and competing with the best of the best is definitely a good player.
I am not saying he is one of the best players on the planet but with what evidence can you say he is bad? If you take rankings: TLPD 82nd, 123nd (http://www.mystarcraft.de/de/edb/ranking/players?zone=8)
Which ironically is way higher than you are.
As far as TLO goes, we will have a showmatch soon to decide if I have the right to think he's bad at the game or not. I'm perfectly ready to eat back all my words and get all the shit I deserve in case I lose.
It is even more stupid to stand by your stupid comment. Do you really think the result of the showmatch will have any meaning on how good TLO is? If you win the showmatch 4:0 do you really think it proves that he is a bad player?
I am wondering what happens if you loose. Do you then believe that he is a good player? Or do you then still think he is bad?
Either way that is weird.
A: means if i (decent master player) win a showmatch against you (e.g by gambling hard and getting lucky) then i am a good player (which i am not lol).
B: what's the point of the showmatch...
On the other points pls read Hot_Bid's comment again. 
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On May 02 2012 13:56 fmjwizard wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 13:42 jmbthirteen wrote:On May 02 2012 13:28 JoeSchmoe wrote:On May 02 2012 10:50 Hot_Bid wrote:On May 02 2012 10:11 Disposition1989 wrote:On May 02 2012 09:55 MVTaylor wrote:
Glad Cloud came out and said it.
As IdrA reinforced on Inside The Game tonight, top casters like Day[9] do make a stupid amount of money, and the fact he tries to pretend this isn't the case is really annoying. how is this annoying? id say its annoying for players to reveal stuff like this about the casters. no player salaries are ever revealed (as it should be), so why should the casters reveal theirs? should they apologise for SUCCEEDING? Also, is it really that stupid that Day9 would make a lot of money? I don't know how much money Day9 makes but I hope he makes a shitton of money. Why? He's the #1 most popular caster in our scene. Of course he should make a lot of money? Is it really that weird? For example, the biggest sports commentators make 5+ million dollars a year. The best professional athletes make four or five times that much, Kobe makes like 20mil+. Now you might say, Hot_Bid, Kobe makes 4x as much as Bob Costas, but Day9 might outearn the biggest pro gamer. Well no shit, Kobe is about a thousands more popular than Bob Costas, but Day brings a huge fanbase that rivals just about any top player. So I ask again, would it really be that weird if he made as much or more? You guys act like it's a bad thing that people who are the #1 best person at what they do makes a lot of money. That it's somehow "undeserved." He's the best in the world at it. There is literally nobody better at the skill that he does that hundreds of thousands of people watch, and somehow it's wrong to make six figures doing it? Come on. your analogy of day9 to kobe is completely wrong. kobe makes so much money because he's one of the best in the sport. there's no denying it. give it a couple more years and you can toss his name in the likes of chamberlain and jordan. day9 is not the best caster. not by a long shot. day9 is the most popular caster in the world and it is by a long shot. Dude has nearly 110,000 followers on Twitter. Artosis has 65,000. Idra has just under 50,000 followers on twitter. Kobe makes so much money because he is worth. He proves that worth with his play. Day9 makes so much money because he is worth it. He brings in a TON of viewers. What other sc2 figure can you bring in that has the popularity of Day9? NONE. You know why Day9 makes so much money? Because so many people love the dude. When he is casting a tournament more people tune in. Simple as that. No one else has as much of an impact on viewers like that. TBH Day9 can't really do a good livecast. I feel he is much more introverted in nature as compared to his brother. To do livecast another essential quality to have would be an extroversion personality as compared to introversion. When you are extroverted you have a better inclination to do better public speaking. He lacks that. He is much more suited to do productions that gives him ample time to prepare, less eyes, and also time to think things deeply. He can't really produce insights off the cuff if you follow his gigs. On the good side of things; he is up there more so due to his unwavering COMMITMENT. All these are just purely my opinions.
Day9 can't do a good livecast? What the fuck? Have you ever watched day9?
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TLO hasn't been relevant since he switched to Zerg.
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On May 02 2012 13:42 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 13:28 JoeSchmoe wrote:On May 02 2012 10:50 Hot_Bid wrote:On May 02 2012 10:11 Disposition1989 wrote:On May 02 2012 09:55 MVTaylor wrote:
Glad Cloud came out and said it.
As IdrA reinforced on Inside The Game tonight, top casters like Day[9] do make a stupid amount of money, and the fact he tries to pretend this isn't the case is really annoying. how is this annoying? id say its annoying for players to reveal stuff like this about the casters. no player salaries are ever revealed (as it should be), so why should the casters reveal theirs? should they apologise for SUCCEEDING? Also, is it really that stupid that Day9 would make a lot of money? I don't know how much money Day9 makes but I hope he makes a shitton of money. Why? He's the #1 most popular caster in our scene. Of course he should make a lot of money? Is it really that weird? For example, the biggest sports commentators make 5+ million dollars a year. The best professional athletes make four or five times that much, Kobe makes like 20mil+. Now you might say, Hot_Bid, Kobe makes 4x as much as Bob Costas, but Day9 might outearn the biggest pro gamer. Well no shit, Kobe is about a thousands more popular than Bob Costas, but Day brings a huge fanbase that rivals just about any top player. So I ask again, would it really be that weird if he made as much or more? You guys act like it's a bad thing that people who are the #1 best person at what they do makes a lot of money. That it's somehow "undeserved." He's the best in the world at it. There is literally nobody better at the skill that he does that hundreds of thousands of people watch, and somehow it's wrong to make six figures doing it? Come on. your analogy of day9 to kobe is completely wrong. kobe makes so much money because he's one of the best in the sport. there's no denying it. give it a couple more years and you can toss his name in the likes of chamberlain and jordan. day9 is not the best caster. not by a long shot. day9 is the most popular caster in the world and it is by a long shot. Dude has nearly 110,000 followers on Twitter. Artosis has 65,000. Idra has just under 50,000 followers on twitter. Kobe makes so much money because he is worth. He proves that worth with his play. Day9 makes so much money because he is worth it. He brings in a TON of viewers. What other sc2 figure can you bring in that has the popularity of Day9? NONE. You know why Day9 makes so much money? Because so many people love the dude. When he is casting a tournament more people tune in. Simple as that. No one else has as much of an impact on viewers like that.
Husky has 635,980 youtube subscribers. Day9 has 268,610
Husky wins and is therefore the best sc2 caster in the world! Everybody make sure leagues pay him the most.
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On May 02 2012 13:42 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 13:28 JoeSchmoe wrote:On May 02 2012 10:50 Hot_Bid wrote:On May 02 2012 10:11 Disposition1989 wrote:On May 02 2012 09:55 MVTaylor wrote:
Glad Cloud came out and said it.
As IdrA reinforced on Inside The Game tonight, top casters like Day[9] do make a stupid amount of money, and the fact he tries to pretend this isn't the case is really annoying. how is this annoying? id say its annoying for players to reveal stuff like this about the casters. no player salaries are ever revealed (as it should be), so why should the casters reveal theirs? should they apologise for SUCCEEDING? Also, is it really that stupid that Day9 would make a lot of money? I don't know how much money Day9 makes but I hope he makes a shitton of money. Why? He's the #1 most popular caster in our scene. Of course he should make a lot of money? Is it really that weird? For example, the biggest sports commentators make 5+ million dollars a year. The best professional athletes make four or five times that much, Kobe makes like 20mil+. Now you might say, Hot_Bid, Kobe makes 4x as much as Bob Costas, but Day9 might outearn the biggest pro gamer. Well no shit, Kobe is about a thousands more popular than Bob Costas, but Day brings a huge fanbase that rivals just about any top player. So I ask again, would it really be that weird if he made as much or more? You guys act like it's a bad thing that people who are the #1 best person at what they do makes a lot of money. That it's somehow "undeserved." He's the best in the world at it. There is literally nobody better at the skill that he does that hundreds of thousands of people watch, and somehow it's wrong to make six figures doing it? Come on. your analogy of day9 to kobe is completely wrong. kobe makes so much money because he's one of the best in the sport. there's no denying it. give it a couple more years and you can toss his name in the likes of chamberlain and jordan. day9 is not the best caster. not by a long shot. day9 is the most popular caster in the world and it is by a long shot. Dude has nearly 110,000 followers on Twitter. Artosis has 65,000. Idra has just under 50,000 followers on twitter. Kobe makes so much money because he is worth. He proves that worth with his play. Day9 makes so much money because he is worth it. He brings in a TON of viewers. What other sc2 figure can you bring in that has the popularity of Day9? NONE. You know why Day9 makes so much money? Because so many people love the dude. When he is casting a tournament more people tune in. Simple as that. No one else has as much of an impact on viewers like that.
You've basically reiterated my point that it's inappropriate to be comparing Kobe to Day9 without intentionally doing so. The whole point of Cloud's argument is that casters are not investing enough effort improving their analytical casting despite their high pay. Day9 is arguably an example of this. He is not the premier caster, but he makes up for this in his charm, humor, personality, etc. Kobe did not become a high salaried player because of his charm, but rather through hard work helped along by some talent of course. Clearly, both individuals are popular in their respective scenes but the reason behind their popularity is different. A more appropriate comparison would be Day9 to Jeremy Lin. Come of season, he's probably going to get a higher paying offer than a lot of other players in the league despite being inferior skill wise. Why? Because he puts seats in games, attract media attention, viewership/sponsors from asia, etc.
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i think we're treading on dangerous ground when we start complaining about casters making too much money. whats the solution, strip them of their right to cast? shun anyone who doesnt watch player streams or gom instead of casters? is that really whats 'good' for the scene?
i dont think there's any way to prove this one way or the other, but my feeling is that casters are interest and money generators, not leeches. they get fans hyped and interested in sc2 way more than they draw money and attention away from players. they're a positive force. yeah it sucks that most players dont make decent money, but thems the breaks. if you really love this game, dont complain about some other guy making money by analyzing and casting your games. you should be happy fans are being exposed to your play. get your name out, set up a stream of your own, and money will come.
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I'm sorry you are seemingly emotionless and boring, Cloud. Just because you are that way does not mean everyone else is as well.
I get naturally extremely hyped from Starcraft games, and I express my emotions the way I do. It seems like you simply do not like me as a person (despite having never met me), and thus you want to badmouth me out of nowhere because I express my emotions in a way you do not like (instead you just keep your emotionless face and express nothing at all in your own vlog...).
You act as if I am somehow making more than I deserve and that I should not be so "big" as a caster because I don't live up to your standards (that you yourself cannot meet). Are you completely ignorant to the position I am in in esports? I make no money off this game other than small amounts of ad revenue. What is even going through your head? I work my ass off constantly for esports and get almost nothing in return. Who are you to say I should get even less?
You keep making absolutely ridiculous claims that it doesn't take work to become a caster. This makes you look horribly ignorant. While there are exceptions, almost all casters have had to work a ridiculous amount to achieve what they have. The amount of hours of not just learning the game but learning how to talk, what to talk about, recording commentary, building a fanbase, etc is clearly way more than you seem to think.
I think the only people in esports that work harder than casters are the truly dedicated players. Most high-level koreans, and an extremely low select few of foreigners that really care (people like naniwa, huk, etc) actually practice enough and hard enough to beat most casters in terms of amount of effort, but the majority of foreigners do not put in nearly as much effort as your average successful caster.
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On May 02 2012 13:42 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 13:28 JoeSchmoe wrote:On May 02 2012 10:50 Hot_Bid wrote:On May 02 2012 10:11 Disposition1989 wrote:On May 02 2012 09:55 MVTaylor wrote:
Glad Cloud came out and said it.
As IdrA reinforced on Inside The Game tonight, top casters like Day[9] do make a stupid amount of money, and the fact he tries to pretend this isn't the case is really annoying. how is this annoying? id say its annoying for players to reveal stuff like this about the casters. no player salaries are ever revealed (as it should be), so why should the casters reveal theirs? should they apologise for SUCCEEDING? Also, is it really that stupid that Day9 would make a lot of money? I don't know how much money Day9 makes but I hope he makes a shitton of money. Why? He's the #1 most popular caster in our scene. Of course he should make a lot of money? Is it really that weird? For example, the biggest sports commentators make 5+ million dollars a year. The best professional athletes make four or five times that much, Kobe makes like 20mil+. Now you might say, Hot_Bid, Kobe makes 4x as much as Bob Costas, but Day9 might outearn the biggest pro gamer. Well no shit, Kobe is about a thousands more popular than Bob Costas, but Day brings a huge fanbase that rivals just about any top player. So I ask again, would it really be that weird if he made as much or more? You guys act like it's a bad thing that people who are the #1 best person at what they do makes a lot of money. That it's somehow "undeserved." He's the best in the world at it. There is literally nobody better at the skill that he does that hundreds of thousands of people watch, and somehow it's wrong to make six figures doing it? Come on. your analogy of day9 to kobe is completely wrong. kobe makes so much money because he's one of the best in the sport. there's no denying it. give it a couple more years and you can toss his name in the likes of chamberlain and jordan. day9 is not the best caster. not by a long shot. day9 is the most popular caster in the world and it is by a long shot. Dude has nearly 110,000 followers on Twitter. Artosis has 65,000. Idra has just under 50,000 followers on twitter. Kobe makes so much money because he is worth. He proves that worth with his play. Day9 makes so much money because he is worth it. He brings in a TON of viewers. What other sc2 figure can you bring in that has the popularity of Day9? NONE. You know why Day9 makes so much money? Because so many people love the dude. When he is casting a tournament more people tune in. Simple as that. No one else has as much of an impact on viewers like that.
most followers =/= best. by your logic someone like john madden is the best NFL commentator. have you heard him talk?
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On May 02 2012 14:44 IMNasty wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 13:42 jmbthirteen wrote:On May 02 2012 13:28 JoeSchmoe wrote:On May 02 2012 10:50 Hot_Bid wrote:On May 02 2012 10:11 Disposition1989 wrote:On May 02 2012 09:55 MVTaylor wrote:
Glad Cloud came out and said it.
As IdrA reinforced on Inside The Game tonight, top casters like Day[9] do make a stupid amount of money, and the fact he tries to pretend this isn't the case is really annoying. how is this annoying? id say its annoying for players to reveal stuff like this about the casters. no player salaries are ever revealed (as it should be), so why should the casters reveal theirs? should they apologise for SUCCEEDING? Also, is it really that stupid that Day9 would make a lot of money? I don't know how much money Day9 makes but I hope he makes a shitton of money. Why? He's the #1 most popular caster in our scene. Of course he should make a lot of money? Is it really that weird? For example, the biggest sports commentators make 5+ million dollars a year. The best professional athletes make four or five times that much, Kobe makes like 20mil+. Now you might say, Hot_Bid, Kobe makes 4x as much as Bob Costas, but Day9 might outearn the biggest pro gamer. Well no shit, Kobe is about a thousands more popular than Bob Costas, but Day brings a huge fanbase that rivals just about any top player. So I ask again, would it really be that weird if he made as much or more? You guys act like it's a bad thing that people who are the #1 best person at what they do makes a lot of money. That it's somehow "undeserved." He's the best in the world at it. There is literally nobody better at the skill that he does that hundreds of thousands of people watch, and somehow it's wrong to make six figures doing it? Come on. your analogy of day9 to kobe is completely wrong. kobe makes so much money because he's one of the best in the sport. there's no denying it. give it a couple more years and you can toss his name in the likes of chamberlain and jordan. day9 is not the best caster. not by a long shot. day9 is the most popular caster in the world and it is by a long shot. Dude has nearly 110,000 followers on Twitter. Artosis has 65,000. Idra has just under 50,000 followers on twitter. Kobe makes so much money because he is worth. He proves that worth with his play. Day9 makes so much money because he is worth it. He brings in a TON of viewers. What other sc2 figure can you bring in that has the popularity of Day9? NONE. You know why Day9 makes so much money? Because so many people love the dude. When he is casting a tournament more people tune in. Simple as that. No one else has as much of an impact on viewers like that. most followers =/= best. by your logic someone like john madden is the best NFL commentator. have you heard him talk?
where did I say most followers = best? Oh wait, I didn't. All I said is Day9 gets paid a lot because he is worth it. He brings in the viewers more than anyone else.
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On May 02 2012 14:46 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 14:44 IMNasty wrote:On May 02 2012 13:42 jmbthirteen wrote:On May 02 2012 13:28 JoeSchmoe wrote:On May 02 2012 10:50 Hot_Bid wrote:On May 02 2012 10:11 Disposition1989 wrote:On May 02 2012 09:55 MVTaylor wrote:
Glad Cloud came out and said it.
As IdrA reinforced on Inside The Game tonight, top casters like Day[9] do make a stupid amount of money, and the fact he tries to pretend this isn't the case is really annoying. how is this annoying? id say its annoying for players to reveal stuff like this about the casters. no player salaries are ever revealed (as it should be), so why should the casters reveal theirs? should they apologise for SUCCEEDING? Also, is it really that stupid that Day9 would make a lot of money? I don't know how much money Day9 makes but I hope he makes a shitton of money. Why? He's the #1 most popular caster in our scene. Of course he should make a lot of money? Is it really that weird? For example, the biggest sports commentators make 5+ million dollars a year. The best professional athletes make four or five times that much, Kobe makes like 20mil+. Now you might say, Hot_Bid, Kobe makes 4x as much as Bob Costas, but Day9 might outearn the biggest pro gamer. Well no shit, Kobe is about a thousands more popular than Bob Costas, but Day brings a huge fanbase that rivals just about any top player. So I ask again, would it really be that weird if he made as much or more? You guys act like it's a bad thing that people who are the #1 best person at what they do makes a lot of money. That it's somehow "undeserved." He's the best in the world at it. There is literally nobody better at the skill that he does that hundreds of thousands of people watch, and somehow it's wrong to make six figures doing it? Come on. your analogy of day9 to kobe is completely wrong. kobe makes so much money because he's one of the best in the sport. there's no denying it. give it a couple more years and you can toss his name in the likes of chamberlain and jordan. day9 is not the best caster. not by a long shot. day9 is the most popular caster in the world and it is by a long shot. Dude has nearly 110,000 followers on Twitter. Artosis has 65,000. Idra has just under 50,000 followers on twitter. Kobe makes so much money because he is worth. He proves that worth with his play. Day9 makes so much money because he is worth it. He brings in a TON of viewers. What other sc2 figure can you bring in that has the popularity of Day9? NONE. You know why Day9 makes so much money? Because so many people love the dude. When he is casting a tournament more people tune in. Simple as that. No one else has as much of an impact on viewers like that. most followers =/= best. by your logic someone like john madden is the best NFL commentator. have you heard him talk? where did I say most followers = best? Oh wait, I didn't. All I said is Day9 gets paid a lot because he is worth it. He brings in the viewers more than anyone else.
read last 2 quotes before mine
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On May 02 2012 12:20 SupLilSon wrote:
Honestly, I think the casters in question care a lot more than people think. I'll admit that Tasteless has started to get on my nerves. If any caster should be under fire, it's him. He casts the most prestigious tournament in the world and yet never seems to know more than he did the previous week. He is almost never in tune with the latest metagame and strategies and in contrast to Artosis, looks like a noob. I do feel like Tasteless never actually plays SC2 and kinda just got the job because he did BW casting for GOM.
However, I think JP is getting a lot of undue hate here. He was a masters level random player, so the majority of the community shouldn't bash on him for not giving a shit about SC2 or being bad. He obviously was semi-decent at the game. At least better than a large majority. You don't need to be GM in order to understand the intricacies of SC2. You don't necessarily have to be able to execute the strategies you are talking about. People have a huge misconception that in mainstream sports all the casters are ex-players. It's simply not true. There are ton's of ESPN analysts and writers who probably couldn't run a mile if their life depended on it. They still have passion for the sports they watch/cast. In fact, there are a lot of coaches in mainstream sports who were never world class players, yet the top players respect them and their knowledge.
Also, to all those who question Day9's skill, he used to practice with Gretorp. Gretorp is by no means a top level player, but he is good enough to be a very high masters/low GM calibur player and get's matched against many pros. If Day9 can maintain that level of skill on top of all the schooling he was doing, as well as Daily's etc.. that shows immense talent and passion for SC2. Day9 is almost undoubtedly one of the hardest working people in SC2 right now and players really should be thanking him for making their sport that much more popular.
Actually have to agree with the tasteless bit. He's a really nice guy but honestly I think people only think he's good because he casts with Artosis. Without Artosis he would be terrible whereas Artosis is good no matter who he's with. Then again he's good looking and probably gives Esports a better image for that reason alone.
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I asked my friend if he wanted to come to dreamhack, his first question was "Will day9 be there?"
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Orb makes a great point, one which I believe is the underlying idea behind this whole argument.
On May 02 2012 14:31 -orb- wrote:
I make no money off this game other than small amounts of ad revenue. What is even going through your head? I work my ass off constantly for esports and get almost nothing in return. Who are you to say I should get even less?
You keep making absolutely ridiculous claims that it doesn't take work to become a caster. This makes you look horribly ignorant. While there are exceptions, almost all casters have had to work a ridiculous amount to achieve what they have. The amount of hours of not just learning the game but learning how to talk, what to talk about, recording commentary, building a fanbase, etc is clearly way more than you seem to think.
The point is that ClouD seems to be missing the idea that both players and casters have to prove themselves by working and working and working for little to no return before ever making it onto the main stage. It seems that he doesn't believe that is the case for casters; he believes that casters have to toil less for greater reward.
The key difference between the two is that players' salaries are almost entirely reliant on winnings and sponsorship, while casters are provided payments for simply showing up to events and being their lovely selves. I saw a few comparisons to the NBA in this thread, which is not good for argument since players like Kobe are paid to simply be on the team and play, at this point, regardless of whether or not the Lakers even win the championship.
Based on this perspective, I think that ClouD is approaching the problem in the wrong way. Perhaps the issue is not that casters are being overpaid but that players are being underpaid. The way I see it, and always have, is that foreign teams picking up and trading players and all that jazz and fun stuff is irrelevant to the scene as a whole. People love to see threads like "Liquid'Taeja git sum" pop up, but what does it even really mean for the players and the viewers other than seeing your namesake player rock a different t-shirt? In a tournament scene that is plagued with individual leagues, what does it even really matter who is on what team? With so little emphasis on actually playing together as a team, what does it even matter?
Instead of focusing our (foreigner scene) hype towards big, blowout weekend tournaments like MLG, IEM, DreamHack, etc., we should show some some love for the way GSL and Team Leagues are running their tournaments - more games over longer spans of time. That seems to be the best way to fully enjoy the game on all ends of the spectrum - casters, players, and viewers alike.
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On May 02 2012 14:48 IMNasty wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 14:46 jmbthirteen wrote:On May 02 2012 14:44 IMNasty wrote:On May 02 2012 13:42 jmbthirteen wrote:On May 02 2012 13:28 JoeSchmoe wrote:On May 02 2012 10:50 Hot_Bid wrote:On May 02 2012 10:11 Disposition1989 wrote:On May 02 2012 09:55 MVTaylor wrote:
Glad Cloud came out and said it.
As IdrA reinforced on Inside The Game tonight, top casters like Day[9] do make a stupid amount of money, and the fact he tries to pretend this isn't the case is really annoying. how is this annoying? id say its annoying for players to reveal stuff like this about the casters. no player salaries are ever revealed (as it should be), so why should the casters reveal theirs? should they apologise for SUCCEEDING? Also, is it really that stupid that Day9 would make a lot of money? I don't know how much money Day9 makes but I hope he makes a shitton of money. Why? He's the #1 most popular caster in our scene. Of course he should make a lot of money? Is it really that weird? For example, the biggest sports commentators make 5+ million dollars a year. The best professional athletes make four or five times that much, Kobe makes like 20mil+. Now you might say, Hot_Bid, Kobe makes 4x as much as Bob Costas, but Day9 might outearn the biggest pro gamer. Well no shit, Kobe is about a thousands more popular than Bob Costas, but Day brings a huge fanbase that rivals just about any top player. So I ask again, would it really be that weird if he made as much or more? You guys act like it's a bad thing that people who are the #1 best person at what they do makes a lot of money. That it's somehow "undeserved." He's the best in the world at it. There is literally nobody better at the skill that he does that hundreds of thousands of people watch, and somehow it's wrong to make six figures doing it? Come on. your analogy of day9 to kobe is completely wrong. kobe makes so much money because he's one of the best in the sport. there's no denying it. give it a couple more years and you can toss his name in the likes of chamberlain and jordan. day9 is not the best caster. not by a long shot. day9 is the most popular caster in the world and it is by a long shot. Dude has nearly 110,000 followers on Twitter. Artosis has 65,000. Idra has just under 50,000 followers on twitter. Kobe makes so much money because he is worth. He proves that worth with his play. Day9 makes so much money because he is worth it. He brings in a TON of viewers. What other sc2 figure can you bring in that has the popularity of Day9? NONE. You know why Day9 makes so much money? Because so many people love the dude. When he is casting a tournament more people tune in. Simple as that. No one else has as much of an impact on viewers like that. most followers =/= best. by your logic someone like john madden is the best NFL commentator. have you heard him talk? where did I say most followers = best? Oh wait, I didn't. All I said is Day9 gets paid a lot because he is worth it. He brings in the viewers more than anyone else. read last 2 quotes before mine
Kobe gets paid to be the best player. Casters get paid to be the best at bringing in viewers. So in a sense, Day9 is the best. Quite frankly the best caster is all opinion. There isn't a way to prove who is the best caster because its all personal preference. But there is no doubt that Day9 brings in the most views, which is what tournaments care about.
Day9 is the most popular man in sc2. Whether he is the best caster or whatever, there is no true way to answer that question. Why is it wrong that the most popular guy is getting paid the most?
EDIT: and honestly, what Day9 gets paid, really isn't effecting the prize pools of tournaments. Tournament prize pools isn't what needs to improve, its player salaries that need to improve. Day9 isn't hampering player salaries.
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This is a comedy. Most of the casters deserves what they made. Many players cannot be even compared to HD or Husky when it comes to what they brought to the game. Without Day9, HD, or Husky SC2 scene in USA would have been much smaller. A single below average player missing would have ZERO effect to community. That is why many caster deserves even more. Of course they are going to make more money. I absolutely see nothing wrong with it.
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+1 to ClouD for speaking his mind and opinion on a subject that will need to be addressed at some point. I (and others) may not agree with what he says but still it takes courage to speak out like this. Isn't part of the "problem" ClouD talks about the way the tournaments are set up. We see more of the casters than of the players. Even in down time (between games) we barely see players (at least it seems). Also some of them aren't particularly charisimatic or marketable in front of a camera. This is something that needs to be focused on. The stories of the players. Why do you care about the back-up (insert position/sport here) or borderline starter on your team, or even your favorite star player. The story behind them. I think for the sport to continue to grow, the scene needs to push forward the players into the spotlight. That doesn't mean Casters should fade into the spotlight they're still an important part of the game and tournament experience. Both need to be front and center with the game to succeed.
Right now Casters are the driving force behind viewership and thus marketability (and allowing tournaments and prizes to continue) for tournaments. The skills for a good caster are knowledge, public speaking, charisma, enthusiasm, etc... Some casters are better at others in different areas (Day9 charisma, TotalBiscuit for enthusiasm). Of course not only do these different areas that they're better at than others give them fans, but also detractors for it, or their lack of other skills (TotalBiscuit "annoying" voice or Husky's lack of knowledge, Day9 over-analyzing). If you want to take issue with the EFFORT put in by the casters, OK sure. That's something I can't always see in any casters. Do I want Casters to get better, yes, do I feel they need to only be former players or put some sort of league limit on who can cast, heck no. That's like starting to say you can't commentate a sport unless you played it, you can't coach unless you played it, you can't vote unless you're a politician. If a Caster lacks knowledge and is saying wrong things then that's a problem, but if a caster has it but can't explain/regurgitate it to the audience in a way they can understand same thing.
Commentators will always be a subject of contention. Take basketball and March Madness. Ever hear Gus Johnson call games... think TB on steroids. How about Jim Nantz (especially this March), seemed so dry, straight-arrowed and just there to play-by-play and let his partner do the color and enthusiasm. Personally I dislike Nantz's style and usually like Gus Johnson's. Do they (even with research) have an easier job than the players or even a lot of other employed people. Yes, does that mean the players should always be paid more because they have an easier job, don't think so. Sports pros and Gamer pros both play games for a living. A lot of them are doing something they love and enjoy for a living. How many people can say that?
ClouD's point is there, but it comes across as such a whine (regardless of if he's blunt and always says it how it is) it gets buried. Casters are an important part of the game. Players DO need to be pushed into the spotlight with the casters (and thus bring in viewers like casters, make more money/bring validity to E-Sports). With the way it works now (especially youtube casts or even sometimes tournaments) the games and casters are on-screen the most and are marketed the most. That's why they have the followings they have, that's why they make what they make. Now it's going to take a concerted effort to get the players into the spotlight as well. Basically casting is a very debatable thing, it's also not as easy as made out to be, but not as hard as some other things, Casters are making what they're making because they're what's driving the scene (not entirely their fault), and Players need to walk/be pushed into the spotlight with the casters making them as important if not more.
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EPT
