EPTAnd Painuser is a pretty bad caster, his game knowledge is so bad that even idra and incontrol roll their eyes at some of the stuff he says.
ClouD's World #1 - Caster/Player situation - Page 21
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zefreak
United States2731 Posts
And Painuser is a pretty bad caster, his game knowledge is so bad that even idra and incontrol roll their eyes at some of the stuff he says. | ||
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kyriores
Greece178 Posts
Also, I really really wish more players switched to casting but I doubt that will ever happen for obvious reasons (risk of failing both as a player and caster, language issues, tough to stand out among the giants, etc.). | ||
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fmjwizard
14 Posts
On May 02 2012 12:49 yeastiality wrote: The thing about Tasteless is he's more than capable of being analytical and producing 'new' ideas the way Artosis does. If you don't believe me, watch the GOM broodwar casts with him as the lead caster, alongside Superdanielman, LilSusie etc. It's very obvious from watching the GSL that they push Tasteless to be the 'colour commentator' role, and he accepts that because he's good at it and likes doing it. He has his moments being analytical and showing off his game knowledge, but it's not his place the way it is for Artosis. One thing that comes to mind is a recent code A game where Tasteless guessed at a DT opener from a protoss player (for all the right reasons - simcity, timings of gas, etc etc) while Artosis was blindly calling it a blink build. There's even a tastosis in-joke for this: whenever Tasteless steps out of his assigned role to call something that Artosis hadn't thought of, Artosis goes out of his way to remark "That was a really smart thing you said. You're a smart person, Tasteless." They're both aware of how things go and they make it work. Both of them are very capable of analyzing the game at a high level, but it seems to me like the show is structured in such a way that Artosis does more of that, and I don't see a problem. Another thing about Tasteless is he rarely (if ever) says something blatantly wrong, without correcting himself. I can't say the same of any caster outside of Korea. You'll notice Tasteless doesn't claim to have X grandmaster accounts, either - he could be in platinum or grandmaster, but he doesn't talk about it because it's not a big deal to him. Better to say nothing than something foolish, right? As for why Tasteless has his job (or should have it), it's because he's a total badass and is living every nerd's dream because he's good at being a Starcraft commentator. Thanks for the insight.  | ||
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faction123
Belgium949 Posts
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kyriores
Greece178 Posts
On May 02 2012 12:55 faction123 wrote: I'd just like to point out that top players could easily make $40-50/hr just streaming with ads if they wanted to. If it's money you want, there's your answer. I doubt that if they did that on a regular basis they would still be top players after a couple of months . | ||
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fmjwizard
14 Posts
On May 02 2012 12:53 kyriores wrote: I agree with the "faking emotions" part.. It's pretty obvious that some of them don't have a passion for the game and just do it for the money. The lack of devotion is so obvious and I really believe that the only reason why they are still able to cast is because of their ability to use phrases in a catchy way (aka producing hype). Personally I just mute those casters and watch the game without commentary. And I'm not talking about having super high game knowledge. For example Djwheat, whom I really like, is not even close to masters but you can really tell that he's into gaming and loves what he's doing. The guy even streams ladder games after long casting sessions, even if he'll just get 500 viewers. Also, I really really wish more players switched to casting but I doubt that will ever happen for obvious reasons (risk of failing both as a player and caster, language issues, etc.). DJ Wheat has Unquestionable Passion for the game but IMO he lacks in-game knowledge. Most of the time I don't really get his gigs. But its understandable i guess with his other commitments. Not easy to juggle between IRL commitments and your sole passion. | ||
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archangel967
Canada111 Posts
Unfortunately this myopic view is common when someone has such a narrow perspective. | ||
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oniman999
United States169 Posts
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Severian
Australia2052 Posts
On May 02 2012 12:55 faction123 wrote: I'd just like to point out that top players could easily make $40-50/hr just streaming with ads if they wanted to. If it's money you want, there's your answer. Stream revenue is much more dependant on your established fanbase and your nationality than it is on your skill level, and very few streamers make that much money. Lots of Code S/Code A players don't get a tenth the viewers that IdrA does. Look at the viewer count right now. ForGG - 380, IdrA - 4750. | ||
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yeastiality
Canada374 Posts
On May 02 2012 13:00 oniman999 wrote: I just want to say this. I went to MLG Columbus this year with a couple friends, and we all had a great time. The entire weekend was filled with Starcraft, and it was my most memorable time this year by far. On Sunday after the event, a group of viewers stayed behind to meet players/casters/personalities who might show up and do things like autographs. From my memory the only people who stayed behind to meet fans were the following: Grubby, DJWheat, and Day[9]. Day[9] obviously attracted the biggest following and said something along the lines of "Don't worry about not seeing me, I will stay until every one of you gets an autograph" and he did. Again, the only player who stayed behind was Grubby (from my memory, which could be way off. At the very least, it was 1-2 other players at most). Maybe the reason the casters gain so much popularity is because they actually care about their fans, rather than feel entitled to fans just because they are good at the game. How many of the players from the event do you think were already back to practicing, or on planes flying home to practice? Not everybody can be a personality, and sometimes in order to stay relevant the more basic tasks come first. That's part of what ClouD's gripe is - casters stay relevant seemingly forever, without continuing to follow the game, because people like them for other reasons that are superficial to "competitive Starcraft II" It's easy to see the possible trickle-down effect that the actual competition of the game becomes watered-down or de-emphasized in the fact of more marketable things (rivalries, nationalities i.e. "the foreigner hope", endlessly repeating things people said 8 months ago "Idra feels that this matchup is imbalanced" and so on) | ||
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oZii
United States1198 Posts
Right now the "Good Caster" pool is small so to legitimize your tournament you need not only players but casters. There alot of players that will draw viewers there is a smaller amount of casters that will draw. Pretty easy to understand why the situation is like this. It's not the players fault, not the casters fault, it's all on the tournament organizers/sponsors. If organizers feel day9 > cloud then that is their prerogative and they will pay as they see fit. | ||
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fmjwizard
14 Posts
On May 02 2012 13:03 yeastiality wrote: How many of the players from the event do you think were already back to practicing, or on planes flying home to practice? Not everybody can be a personality, and sometimes in order to stay relevant the more basic tasks come first. That's part of what ClouD's gripe is - casters stay relevant seemingly forever, without continuing to follow the game, because people like them for other reasons that are superficial to "competitive Starcraft II" It's easy to see the possible trickle-down effect that the actual competition of the game becomes watered-down or de-emphasized in the fact of more marketable things (rivalries, nationalities i.e. "the foreigner hope", endlessly repeating things people said 8 months ago "Idra feels that this matchup is imbalanced" and so on) Yea agree with ya. There is a conflict of roles. You can't be a progamer and stay back to do marketing work for the industry. If you want to be a progamer then you must spend all your time to be a progamer otherwise you would just be forced into the gap between roles. Community marketing is a full time role on its own and you can't be doing everything and expect results on the main end. | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On May 02 2012 12:51 zefreak wrote: Watching InTheGame right now and I feel like djWheat isn't really give Cloud a fair representation. And Painuser is a pretty bad caster, his game knowledge is so bad that even idra and incontrol roll their eyes at some of the stuff he says. 1. It's Wheat. Cloud isn't in his camp. 2. There are a lot of casters who fit the bill. 3. Greg and Geoff can say some pretty silly things too, but that's what you get when your more in the public eye. Not just talking about ability to analyze a game because that is something I'd say Greg can do quite well when he can see everything. I find myself rolling my eyes at a lot of things people say. Especially when they're in the limelight. It comes with the territory. I like to see the willingness to expand and show improvement on one's duties. That is to say I show no preferential treatment and they all have work to do on every aspect of their casting. A lot of them are pretty comfortable with where they are at, but I say nay. Keep mixing it up and dig in deep. | ||
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fmjwizard
14 Posts
On May 02 2012 13:05 oZii wrote: As others have said supply and demand. Professional athletes make tons of money because billionaire owners pay them that much because in the end it means more profit. Right now the "Good Caster" pool is small so to legitimize your tournament you need not only players but casters. There alot of players that will draw viewers there is a smaller amount of casters that will draw. Pretty easy to understand why the situation is like this. It's not the players fault, not the casters fault, it's all on the tournament organizers/sponsors. If organizers feel day9 > cloud then that is their prerogative and they will pay as they see fit. It's just a wrong strategy to be promoting caster over players in the long run as it would then turn aspiring progamers to turn into casting. When all the talent is into casting then there won't be much exciting games for casters to cast. The material for casters would drop into a dangerously low quality that even the best caster would not be able to turn a corndog into a steak. Casting positions are already extremely scare and to put more attention into casting would just spell the doom for the sport itself. | ||
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TheRealArtemis
687 Posts
On May 02 2012 12:59 archangel967 wrote: It's so sad that a player like Cloud would use his position as a player to call out casters like this. Casters are the conduit through which pro-level SC2 games get out to the public. They are vital to the continued existence of SC2 as an eSport and the ability for Cloud to even be paid to play this game. Unfortunately this myopic view is common when someone has such a narrow perspective. Its correct that they are vital, but casters also have a responsibility to know what they are talking about. I cant speak for the pro players, but I can imagine that the pro players can be frustrated knowing the casters misinform the people watching at home. Saying that, "player X" made HUGE mistake/blunder, but in reality alot of other things actually causes that to happen. Lets be honest, pro players and very high level gamers are the only people that really knows the game, inside and out. Some casters can really distort whats happening. Idra said himself that he mutes alot of the tournaments, because of this. Probably isnt the only one. More pro casters are what the scene needs more of. | ||
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fmjwizard
14 Posts
On May 02 2012 13:19 TheRealArtemis wrote: Its correct that they are vital, but casters also have a responsibility to know what they are talking about. I cant speak for the pro players, but I can imagine that the pro players can be frustrated knowing the casters misinform the people watching at home. Saying that, "player X" made HUGE mistake/blunder, but in reality alot of other things actually causes that to happen. Lets be honest, pro players and very high level gamers are the only people that really knows the game, inside and out. Some casters can really distort whats happening. Idra said himself that he mutes alot of the tournaments, because of this. Probably isnt the only one. More pro casters are what the scene needs more of. You make some sense here. As a caster you can't be rambling about things you don't understand and thats why ingame knowledge is one of the paramount criteria to make a good caster. A caster would also have a duty to ensure that what they say actually reflect the reality of a particular moment or scenario. | ||
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JoeSchmoe
Canada2058 Posts
On May 02 2012 10:50 Hot_Bid wrote: Also, is it really that stupid that Day9 would make a lot of money? I don't know how much money Day9 makes but I hope he makes a shitton of money. Why? He's the #1 most popular caster in our scene. Of course he should make a lot of money? Is it really that weird? For example, the biggest sports commentators make 5+ million dollars a year. The best professional athletes make four or five times that much, Kobe makes like 20mil+. Now you might say, Hot_Bid, Kobe makes 4x as much as Bob Costas, but Day9 might outearn the biggest pro gamer. Well no shit, Kobe is about a thousands more popular than Bob Costas, but Day brings a huge fanbase that rivals just about any top player. So I ask again, would it really be that weird if he made as much or more? You guys act like it's a bad thing that people who are the #1 best person at what they do makes a lot of money. That it's somehow "undeserved." He's the best in the world at it. There is literally nobody better at the skill that he does that hundreds of thousands of people watch, and somehow it's wrong to make six figures doing it? Come on. your analogy of day9 to kobe is completely wrong. kobe makes so much money because he's one of the best in the sport. there's no denying it. give it a couple more years and you can toss his name in the likes of chamberlain and jordan. day9 is not the best caster. not by a long shot. | ||
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fmjwizard
14 Posts
On May 02 2012 13:02 Severian wrote: Stream revenue is much more dependant on your established fanbase and your nationality than it is on your skill level, and very few streamers make that much money. Lots of Code S/Code A players don't get a tenth the viewers that IdrA does. Look at the viewer count right now. ForGG - 380, IdrA - 4750. Sometimes i don't get the distortion in returns in favor of Idra. He gets viewers because of only two main reasons. 1. A craze for notoriety from foreign fans that makes up his so called 'personality'. 2. He is a foreigner who speaks the foreigners' languange. Another other reasons worth noting? | ||
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leperphilliac
United States399 Posts
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SupLilSon
Malaysia4123 Posts
On May 02 2012 13:34 fmjwizard wrote: Sometimes i don't get the distortion in returns in favor of Idra. He gets viewers because of only two main reasons. 1. A craze for notoriety from foreign fans that makes up his so called 'personality'. 2. He is a foreigner who speaks the foreigners' languange. Another other reasons worth noting? I mean, there is the other point of, whether you hate him or not, he is probably the second best foreign zerg after Stephano. Yea he loses a lot and hasn't won much recently, but look at the people he plays against, it's almost exclusively top Koreans. Regardless of your feelings for him, it's denial to say he's not a great player. | ||
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