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On May 01 2012 06:38 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 06:32 CruiseR wrote:On May 01 2012 06:21 0ne wrote:On May 01 2012 06:10 CruiseR wrote:On May 01 2012 06:08 Diamond wrote:On May 01 2012 06:06 CruiseR wrote:On May 01 2012 06:05 Diamond wrote:On May 01 2012 05:26 CruiseR wrote:
HuK, Feast, Stephano, Socke, HasuObs, GoOdy, DarKFoRcE, Grubby, Ret, MaNa, Nerchio, Tefel, DieStar, NightEnD, TitaN, BratOK, Happy, sLivko, LucifroN, VortiX, NaNiwa, SaSe, ThorZaIN, SjoW, MorroW, biGs, BlinG, DeMusliM, fraer, Kas, Strelok, Bly, DIMAGA, LiveZerg, Sen,
I named 35 players (and i'm not even sure if Snute/White-Ra/TLO/Sheth/Adelscott/ToD/Scarlett aren't in that list too) that are better than IdrA imo. Obviously it can't be proven they are or they are not, but looking at recent IdrA's tournament results i truly believe in what i said. His last nice win was in November 2011 (Asus ROG), and since then he was "constantly" taking last places in MLGs and other tournaments. And taking a single game off a player like Bomber (look at his tlpd, he was "constantly winning" maybe 10+ months ago) means nothing, cuz many players from my list would have a decent shot to win a single game in bo3 or bo5 against a top korean
he was very good in sc:bw (probably top1 foreigner at some point) and probably the best during the beta, but now there are alot of other talent you people underrate and don't even think about, just because IdrA has a name.
I will probably get attacked now by the biggest fanclub in the world, but I don't really care. That's my opinion and you are not gonna change it, because it's based on facts.
cliffs: IdrA has earned a name for himself winning many tournaments in beta/early sc2, but even though other players don't have as much tournament success, i would bet money on them if they were to play vs IdrA right now. Online results are important for me too. I read exactly 4 names on your list and KNEW that you lived in EU, looked at location and was not disappointed. Yeah, you americans don't know a third of the players listed i know it  Or we know that a lot of EU fans seem to wayyyyyyyyyyyy overly hype a good number of EU players. Not saying IdrA is the top dog, but your list is borderline insulting and so obv EU favored it can't be taken as anything but another EU fan overhyping EU players. You really don't believe EU has much more better players than NA ? I think the difference in both skill and number of high-skilled players is pretty big. That's no the point. The thing is you're saying players like Goody, Scarlett, Adelscott, Strelok or DieStar (just quoting the most painful ones) are better than IdrA which is beyond ridiculous. So you are incredibly biased towards EU random players or you are a hardcore IdrA hater. I just think IdrA is the most overrated player. Some polls i've seen recently kinda shocked me. I concluded that alot of people think IdrA is for sure in the top3 if it comes to foreigners, hell, to some people he's top1. I may have overreacted a bit, but I think Strelok, Scarlett or DieStar with their latest form have at least a 50/50 shot vs IdrA. Have Strelok or DieStar done something recently? I don't follow the online cups, so I dunno if they've beaten anyone good. Scarlett is too untested imo. Definetly one of the players I am most looking forward to seeing more of
Not sure about diestar, but Strelok's been on a tear in the IPL TAC3 qualifiers:
+ Show Spoiler +Light
Strelok > Heavens
Strelok > Calibre
Gosu
Strelok > ostojiy
Strelok > HwangSin
Strelok > STX
Strelok > DDE
ZENEX
Strelok > Avenge
Strelok > Sparta
Strelok > XT
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On May 01 2012 06:53 bbm wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 06:38 Aocowns wrote:On May 01 2012 06:32 CruiseR wrote:On May 01 2012 06:21 0ne wrote:On May 01 2012 06:10 CruiseR wrote:On May 01 2012 06:08 Diamond wrote:On May 01 2012 06:06 CruiseR wrote:On May 01 2012 06:05 Diamond wrote:On May 01 2012 05:26 CruiseR wrote:
HuK, Feast, Stephano, Socke, HasuObs, GoOdy, DarKFoRcE, Grubby, Ret, MaNa, Nerchio, Tefel, DieStar, NightEnD, TitaN, BratOK, Happy, sLivko, LucifroN, VortiX, NaNiwa, SaSe, ThorZaIN, SjoW, MorroW, biGs, BlinG, DeMusliM, fraer, Kas, Strelok, Bly, DIMAGA, LiveZerg, Sen,
I named 35 players (and i'm not even sure if Snute/White-Ra/TLO/Sheth/Adelscott/ToD/Scarlett aren't in that list too) that are better than IdrA imo. Obviously it can't be proven they are or they are not, but looking at recent IdrA's tournament results i truly believe in what i said. His last nice win was in November 2011 (Asus ROG), and since then he was "constantly" taking last places in MLGs and other tournaments. And taking a single game off a player like Bomber (look at his tlpd, he was "constantly winning" maybe 10+ months ago) means nothing, cuz many players from my list would have a decent shot to win a single game in bo3 or bo5 against a top korean
he was very good in sc:bw (probably top1 foreigner at some point) and probably the best during the beta, but now there are alot of other talent you people underrate and don't even think about, just because IdrA has a name.
I will probably get attacked now by the biggest fanclub in the world, but I don't really care. That's my opinion and you are not gonna change it, because it's based on facts.
cliffs: IdrA has earned a name for himself winning many tournaments in beta/early sc2, but even though other players don't have as much tournament success, i would bet money on them if they were to play vs IdrA right now. Online results are important for me too. I read exactly 4 names on your list and KNEW that you lived in EU, looked at location and was not disappointed. Yeah, you americans don't know a third of the players listed i know it Or we know that a lot of EU fans seem to wayyyyyyyyyyyy overly hype a good number of EU players. Not saying IdrA is the top dog, but your list is borderline insulting and so obv EU favored it can't be taken as anything but another EU fan overhyping EU players. You really don't believe EU has much more better players than NA ? I think the difference in both skill and number of high-skilled players is pretty big. That's no the point. The thing is you're saying players like Goody, Scarlett, Adelscott, Strelok or DieStar (just quoting the most painful ones) are better than IdrA which is beyond ridiculous. So you are incredibly biased towards EU random players or you are a hardcore IdrA hater. I just think IdrA is the most overrated player. Some polls i've seen recently kinda shocked me. I concluded that alot of people think IdrA is for sure in the top3 if it comes to foreigners, hell, to some people he's top1. I may have overreacted a bit, but I think Strelok, Scarlett or DieStar with their latest form have at least a 50/50 shot vs IdrA. Have Strelok or DieStar done something recently? I don't follow the online cups, so I dunno if they've beaten anyone good. Scarlett is too untested imo. Definetly one of the players I am most looking forward to seeing more of Not sure about diestar, but Strelok's been on a tear in the IPL TAC3 qualifiers: + Show Spoiler +Light
Strelok > Heavens
Strelok > Calibre
Gosu
Strelok > ostojiy
Strelok > HwangSin
Strelok > STX
Strelok > DDE
ZENEX
Strelok > Avenge
Strelok > Sparta
Strelok > XT
Oh yeah, those are all heavy hitting contender for the top15 foreigners spot...
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On May 01 2012 06:38 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 06:32 CruiseR wrote:On May 01 2012 06:21 0ne wrote:On May 01 2012 06:10 CruiseR wrote:On May 01 2012 06:08 Diamond wrote:On May 01 2012 06:06 CruiseR wrote:On May 01 2012 06:05 Diamond wrote:On May 01 2012 05:26 CruiseR wrote:
HuK, Feast, Stephano, Socke, HasuObs, GoOdy, DarKFoRcE, Grubby, Ret, MaNa, Nerchio, Tefel, DieStar, NightEnD, TitaN, BratOK, Happy, sLivko, LucifroN, VortiX, NaNiwa, SaSe, ThorZaIN, SjoW, MorroW, biGs, BlinG, DeMusliM, fraer, Kas, Strelok, Bly, DIMAGA, LiveZerg, Sen,
I named 35 players (and i'm not even sure if Snute/White-Ra/TLO/Sheth/Adelscott/ToD/Scarlett aren't in that list too) that are better than IdrA imo. Obviously it can't be proven they are or they are not, but looking at recent IdrA's tournament results i truly believe in what i said. His last nice win was in November 2011 (Asus ROG), and since then he was "constantly" taking last places in MLGs and other tournaments. And taking a single game off a player like Bomber (look at his tlpd, he was "constantly winning" maybe 10+ months ago) means nothing, cuz many players from my list would have a decent shot to win a single game in bo3 or bo5 against a top korean
he was very good in sc:bw (probably top1 foreigner at some point) and probably the best during the beta, but now there are alot of other talent you people underrate and don't even think about, just because IdrA has a name.
I will probably get attacked now by the biggest fanclub in the world, but I don't really care. That's my opinion and you are not gonna change it, because it's based on facts.
cliffs: IdrA has earned a name for himself winning many tournaments in beta/early sc2, but even though other players don't have as much tournament success, i would bet money on them if they were to play vs IdrA right now. Online results are important for me too. I read exactly 4 names on your list and KNEW that you lived in EU, looked at location and was not disappointed. Yeah, you americans don't know a third of the players listed i know it Or we know that a lot of EU fans seem to wayyyyyyyyyyyy overly hype a good number of EU players. Not saying IdrA is the top dog, but your list is borderline insulting and so obv EU favored it can't be taken as anything but another EU fan overhyping EU players. You really don't believe EU has much more better players than NA ? I think the difference in both skill and number of high-skilled players is pretty big. That's no the point. The thing is you're saying players like Goody, Scarlett, Adelscott, Strelok or DieStar (just quoting the most painful ones) are better than IdrA which is beyond ridiculous. So you are incredibly biased towards EU random players or you are a hardcore IdrA hater. I just think IdrA is the most overrated player. Some polls i've seen recently kinda shocked me. I concluded that alot of people think IdrA is for sure in the top3 if it comes to foreigners, hell, to some people he's top1. I may have overreacted a bit, but I think Strelok, Scarlett or DieStar with their latest form have at least a 50/50 shot vs IdrA. Have Strelok or DieStar done something recently? I don't follow the online cups, so I dunno if they've beaten anyone good. Scarlett is too untested imo. Definetly one of the players I am most looking forward to seeing more of
Scarlet, Strelok and Diestar have done very well in online offline the last 6 months.
Diestar: Took first in his place at Assemply 2012, Beating JYP 2-0
Scarlet: IPL 4
Strelok: just won Sennheiser Hear To Win Beating Hyun 3-0
And they all 3 done very well in other online and offline cups the last 6 months This is a fact and if you also look at there stats they are miles above Idra. People know nothing about these players becuase they artn hyped as feck well except Scalet she is doing very well for herself. But Strelok and Diestar are barely known..
Its really frustation to read that Idra are ahead of these 2 when they got much better results and stats then Idra the last 6 months
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On May 01 2012 06:50 CeriseCherries wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 06:21 Talin wrote:On May 01 2012 06:08 Diamond wrote:On May 01 2012 06:06 CruiseR wrote:On May 01 2012 06:05 Diamond wrote:On May 01 2012 05:26 CruiseR wrote:
HuK, Feast, Stephano, Socke, HasuObs, GoOdy, DarKFoRcE, Grubby, Ret, MaNa, Nerchio, Tefel, DieStar, NightEnD, TitaN, BratOK, Happy, sLivko, LucifroN, VortiX, NaNiwa, SaSe, ThorZaIN, SjoW, MorroW, biGs, BlinG, DeMusliM, fraer, Kas, Strelok, Bly, DIMAGA, LiveZerg, Sen,
I named 35 players (and i'm not even sure if Snute/White-Ra/TLO/Sheth/Adelscott/ToD/Scarlett aren't in that list too) that are better than IdrA imo. Obviously it can't be proven they are or they are not, but looking at recent IdrA's tournament results i truly believe in what i said. His last nice win was in November 2011 (Asus ROG), and since then he was "constantly" taking last places in MLGs and other tournaments. And taking a single game off a player like Bomber (look at his tlpd, he was "constantly winning" maybe 10+ months ago) means nothing, cuz many players from my list would have a decent shot to win a single game in bo3 or bo5 against a top korean
he was very good in sc:bw (probably top1 foreigner at some point) and probably the best during the beta, but now there are alot of other talent you people underrate and don't even think about, just because IdrA has a name.
I will probably get attacked now by the biggest fanclub in the world, but I don't really care. That's my opinion and you are not gonna change it, because it's based on facts.
cliffs: IdrA has earned a name for himself winning many tournaments in beta/early sc2, but even though other players don't have as much tournament success, i would bet money on them if they were to play vs IdrA right now. Online results are important for me too. I read exactly 4 names on your list and KNEW that you lived in EU, looked at location and was not disappointed. Yeah, you americans don't know a third of the players listed i know it Or we know that a lot of EU fans seem to wayyyyyyyyyyyy overly hype a good number of EU players. Not saying IdrA is the top dog, but your list is borderline insulting and so obv EU favored it can't be taken as anything but another EU fan overhyping EU players. Somebody less involved with the Korean scene may have said the same thing about Taeja half a year ago (in fact, scratch the "may have" - there's probably dozens of people that did). There's at least 20 players I can name off the top of my head that were branded as 'overhyped' at one point, and ended up making deep runs in top tournaments and competing at highest levels 6 months or a year later. On the other hand, I can't think of that many who were heavily hyped and didn't turn out to be at least decent at the highest level. Fact is that there are people who play closer attention to the scene (or a part of it) than most others, and as a result they happen to know things most other people do not. Based on past experience, I'm now more likely to believe somebody who claims to know and have followed these players (and appears genuine) that they are actually that good, than somebody who is completely ignorant of their existence claiming they are "overhyped" just because he's never seen them play. In this specific case, CruiseR is right - betting on either IdrA or White-Ra against either Tefel or fraer at this point in time would be an extremely risky investment. Their level of play is simply higher right now, and their form is undeniably better. there's a difference between guys winning euro cups and people raping korean weeklies like its NA platinum. people are looking at "losses" and assuming they all mean the same thing... recent IdrA losses in order of chronology (TLPD source) + Show Spoiler +Huk
Alicia
Hero
Jjaki
Byun
MMA
Bomber
Polt
Jyp tefel's most recent losses by chronology + Show Spoiler +Beastyqt
Titan
White
Snute
Elvis
Hasu
Adel and Fraer + Show Spoiler +Happy
BabyKnight
Mana
Abver
Adel
Violet
Santinii There's a difference in these... one list contains people all who have been in Code S at least once from january... whereas Nerchio is probably the only notable win that Fraer has had for a while... I'm not saying they are by any means bad... I'm saying that to arbitrarily use winrate or participation in weeklies is hard to judge actual quality of play, and its really really hard to staunchly defend the point that they are favored... I'll admit that in a bo3 these guys can beat IdrA in a clan war, but in a serious non-showmatch series, or a LAN tournament I don't think a lot of foreigners are favorites over idra
I don't use win rate or results, only knowledge/memory of the games I watched myself.
I am however absolutely convinced that, having watched Idra's ZvP and fraer's PvZ (fairly recently), I would put my money on fraer without thinking twice, LAN or not (although it's unlikely they would meet at a LAN anyway).
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On May 01 2012 06:56 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 06:53 bbm wrote:On May 01 2012 06:38 Aocowns wrote:On May 01 2012 06:32 CruiseR wrote:On May 01 2012 06:21 0ne wrote:On May 01 2012 06:10 CruiseR wrote:On May 01 2012 06:08 Diamond wrote:On May 01 2012 06:06 CruiseR wrote:On May 01 2012 06:05 Diamond wrote:On May 01 2012 05:26 CruiseR wrote:
HuK, Feast, Stephano, Socke, HasuObs, GoOdy, DarKFoRcE, Grubby, Ret, MaNa, Nerchio, Tefel, DieStar, NightEnD, TitaN, BratOK, Happy, sLivko, LucifroN, VortiX, NaNiwa, SaSe, ThorZaIN, SjoW, MorroW, biGs, BlinG, DeMusliM, fraer, Kas, Strelok, Bly, DIMAGA, LiveZerg, Sen,
I named 35 players (and i'm not even sure if Snute/White-Ra/TLO/Sheth/Adelscott/ToD/Scarlett aren't in that list too) that are better than IdrA imo. Obviously it can't be proven they are or they are not, but looking at recent IdrA's tournament results i truly believe in what i said. His last nice win was in November 2011 (Asus ROG), and since then he was "constantly" taking last places in MLGs and other tournaments. And taking a single game off a player like Bomber (look at his tlpd, he was "constantly winning" maybe 10+ months ago) means nothing, cuz many players from my list would have a decent shot to win a single game in bo3 or bo5 against a top korean
he was very good in sc:bw (probably top1 foreigner at some point) and probably the best during the beta, but now there are alot of other talent you people underrate and don't even think about, just because IdrA has a name.
I will probably get attacked now by the biggest fanclub in the world, but I don't really care. That's my opinion and you are not gonna change it, because it's based on facts.
cliffs: IdrA has earned a name for himself winning many tournaments in beta/early sc2, but even though other players don't have as much tournament success, i would bet money on them if they were to play vs IdrA right now. Online results are important for me too. I read exactly 4 names on your list and KNEW that you lived in EU, looked at location and was not disappointed. Yeah, you americans don't know a third of the players listed i know it Or we know that a lot of EU fans seem to wayyyyyyyyyyyy overly hype a good number of EU players. Not saying IdrA is the top dog, but your list is borderline insulting and so obv EU favored it can't be taken as anything but another EU fan overhyping EU players. You really don't believe EU has much more better players than NA ? I think the difference in both skill and number of high-skilled players is pretty big. That's no the point. The thing is you're saying players like Goody, Scarlett, Adelscott, Strelok or DieStar (just quoting the most painful ones) are better than IdrA which is beyond ridiculous. So you are incredibly biased towards EU random players or you are a hardcore IdrA hater. I just think IdrA is the most overrated player. Some polls i've seen recently kinda shocked me. I concluded that alot of people think IdrA is for sure in the top3 if it comes to foreigners, hell, to some people he's top1. I may have overreacted a bit, but I think Strelok, Scarlett or DieStar with their latest form have at least a 50/50 shot vs IdrA. Have Strelok or DieStar done something recently? I don't follow the online cups, so I dunno if they've beaten anyone good. Scarlett is too untested imo. Definetly one of the players I am most looking forward to seeing more of Not sure about diestar, but Strelok's been on a tear in the IPL TAC3 qualifiers: + Show Spoiler +Light
Strelok > Heavens
Strelok > Calibre
Gosu
Strelok > ostojiy
Strelok > HwangSin
Strelok > STX
Strelok > DDE
ZENEX
Strelok > Avenge
Strelok > Sparta
Strelok > XT Oh yeah, those are all heavy hitting contender for the top15 foreigners spot...
Have you looked at Idra´s stats and tournament result the last 6months what have he done thats better then those?
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On May 01 2012 06:21 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 06:08 Diamond wrote:On May 01 2012 06:06 CruiseR wrote:On May 01 2012 06:05 Diamond wrote:On May 01 2012 05:26 CruiseR wrote:
HuK, Feast, Stephano, Socke, HasuObs, GoOdy, DarKFoRcE, Grubby, Ret, MaNa, Nerchio, Tefel, DieStar, NightEnD, TitaN, BratOK, Happy, sLivko, LucifroN, VortiX, NaNiwa, SaSe, ThorZaIN, SjoW, MorroW, biGs, BlinG, DeMusliM, fraer, Kas, Strelok, Bly, DIMAGA, LiveZerg, Sen,
I named 35 players (and i'm not even sure if Snute/White-Ra/TLO/Sheth/Adelscott/ToD/Scarlett aren't in that list too) that are better than IdrA imo. Obviously it can't be proven they are or they are not, but looking at recent IdrA's tournament results i truly believe in what i said. His last nice win was in November 2011 (Asus ROG), and since then he was "constantly" taking last places in MLGs and other tournaments. And taking a single game off a player like Bomber (look at his tlpd, he was "constantly winning" maybe 10+ months ago) means nothing, cuz many players from my list would have a decent shot to win a single game in bo3 or bo5 against a top korean
he was very good in sc:bw (probably top1 foreigner at some point) and probably the best during the beta, but now there are alot of other talent you people underrate and don't even think about, just because IdrA has a name.
I will probably get attacked now by the biggest fanclub in the world, but I don't really care. That's my opinion and you are not gonna change it, because it's based on facts.
cliffs: IdrA has earned a name for himself winning many tournaments in beta/early sc2, but even though other players don't have as much tournament success, i would bet money on them if they were to play vs IdrA right now. Online results are important for me too. I read exactly 4 names on your list and KNEW that you lived in EU, looked at location and was not disappointed. Yeah, you americans don't know a third of the players listed i know it Or we know that a lot of EU fans seem to wayyyyyyyyyyyy overly hype a good number of EU players. Not saying IdrA is the top dog, but your list is borderline insulting and so obv EU favored it can't be taken as anything but another EU fan overhyping EU players. Somebody less involved with the Korean scene may have said the same thing about Taeja half a year ago (in fact, scratch the "may have" - there's probably dozens of people that did). There's at least 20 players I can name off the top of my head that were branded as 'overhyped' at one point, and ended up making deep runs in top tournaments and competing at highest levels 6 months or a year later. On the other hand, I can't think of that many who were heavily hyped and didn't turn out to be at least decent at the highest level. Fact is that there are people who play closer attention to the scene (or a part of it) than most others, and as a result they happen to know things most other people do not. Based on past experience, I'm now more likely to believe somebody who claims to know and have followed these players (and appears genuine) that they are actually that good, than somebody who is completely ignorant of their existence claiming they are "overhyped" just because he's never seen them play. In this specific case, CruiseR is right - betting on either IdrA or White-Ra against either Tefel or fraer at this point in time would be an extremely risky investment. Their level of play is simply higher right now, and their form is undeniably better.
The problem is that you don't know IdrA's form just from him playing against top Koreans and losing. Tefel and Fraer are at the spot that Stephano was in a year ago - ie they're ripping it up in those online EU cups, but they're not being challenged by the best of the best in the foreigner's scene because once a pro breaks out - ie Naniwa in early 2011, Stephano in late 2011 - he ceases to play in the online cups and the competition diminishes. Nonetheless, EU cups are a miner's canary for breakout talent in the EU, but that doesn't say that talent is better than IdrA here and now.
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On May 01 2012 06:57 Benjamin99 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 06:56 Aocowns wrote:On May 01 2012 06:53 bbm wrote:On May 01 2012 06:38 Aocowns wrote:On May 01 2012 06:32 CruiseR wrote:On May 01 2012 06:21 0ne wrote:On May 01 2012 06:10 CruiseR wrote:On May 01 2012 06:08 Diamond wrote:On May 01 2012 06:06 CruiseR wrote:On May 01 2012 06:05 Diamond wrote:
[quote]
I read exactly 4 names on your list and KNEW that you lived in EU, looked at location and was not disappointed. Yeah, you americans don't know a third of the players listed i know it Or we know that a lot of EU fans seem to wayyyyyyyyyyyy overly hype a good number of EU players. Not saying IdrA is the top dog, but your list is borderline insulting and so obv EU favored it can't be taken as anything but another EU fan overhyping EU players. You really don't believe EU has much more better players than NA ? I think the difference in both skill and number of high-skilled players is pretty big. That's no the point. The thing is you're saying players like Goody, Scarlett, Adelscott, Strelok or DieStar (just quoting the most painful ones) are better than IdrA which is beyond ridiculous. So you are incredibly biased towards EU random players or you are a hardcore IdrA hater. I just think IdrA is the most overrated player. Some polls i've seen recently kinda shocked me. I concluded that alot of people think IdrA is for sure in the top3 if it comes to foreigners, hell, to some people he's top1. I may have overreacted a bit, but I think Strelok, Scarlett or DieStar with their latest form have at least a 50/50 shot vs IdrA. Have Strelok or DieStar done something recently? I don't follow the online cups, so I dunno if they've beaten anyone good. Scarlett is too untested imo. Definetly one of the players I am most looking forward to seeing more of Not sure about diestar, but Strelok's been on a tear in the IPL TAC3 qualifiers: + Show Spoiler +Light
Strelok > Heavens
Strelok > Calibre
Gosu
Strelok > ostojiy
Strelok > HwangSin
Strelok > STX
Strelok > DDE
ZENEX
Strelok > Avenge
Strelok > Sparta
Strelok > XT Oh yeah, those are all heavy hitting contender for the top15 foreigners spot... Have you looked at Idra´s stats and tournament result the last 6months what have he done thats better then those?
I dunno, beaten players actually in the top15 foreigner spot? Idra could easily beat all the players listed here... A LAN Idra, at least.
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i always try to catch Hui streaming to see if he's any good but never catch him due to timezones conflicting. Anyone have any idea what times he normally streams (EST time preferably ) ?
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nada lost his Code a match 0-2...hes fallen off his horse
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On May 01 2012 06:32 CruiseR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 06:21 0ne wrote:On May 01 2012 06:10 CruiseR wrote:On May 01 2012 06:08 Diamond wrote:On May 01 2012 06:06 CruiseR wrote:On May 01 2012 06:05 Diamond wrote:On May 01 2012 05:26 CruiseR wrote:
HuK, Feast, Stephano, Socke, HasuObs, GoOdy, DarKFoRcE, Grubby, Ret, MaNa, Nerchio, Tefel, DieStar, NightEnD, TitaN, BratOK, Happy, sLivko, LucifroN, VortiX, NaNiwa, SaSe, ThorZaIN, SjoW, MorroW, biGs, BlinG, DeMusliM, fraer, Kas, Strelok, Bly, DIMAGA, LiveZerg, Sen,
I named 35 players (and i'm not even sure if Snute/White-Ra/TLO/Sheth/Adelscott/ToD/Scarlett aren't in that list too) that are better than IdrA imo. Obviously it can't be proven they are or they are not, but looking at recent IdrA's tournament results i truly believe in what i said. His last nice win was in November 2011 (Asus ROG), and since then he was "constantly" taking last places in MLGs and other tournaments. And taking a single game off a player like Bomber (look at his tlpd, he was "constantly winning" maybe 10+ months ago) means nothing, cuz many players from my list would have a decent shot to win a single game in bo3 or bo5 against a top korean
he was very good in sc:bw (probably top1 foreigner at some point) and probably the best during the beta, but now there are alot of other talent you people underrate and don't even think about, just because IdrA has a name.
I will probably get attacked now by the biggest fanclub in the world, but I don't really care. That's my opinion and you are not gonna change it, because it's based on facts.
cliffs: IdrA has earned a name for himself winning many tournaments in beta/early sc2, but even though other players don't have as much tournament success, i would bet money on them if they were to play vs IdrA right now. Online results are important for me too. I read exactly 4 names on your list and KNEW that you lived in EU, looked at location and was not disappointed. Yeah, you americans don't know a third of the players listed i know it Or we know that a lot of EU fans seem to wayyyyyyyyyyyy overly hype a good number of EU players. Not saying IdrA is the top dog, but your list is borderline insulting and so obv EU favored it can't be taken as anything but another EU fan overhyping EU players. You really don't believe EU has much more better players than NA ? I think the difference in both skill and number of high-skilled players is pretty big. That's no the point. The thing is you're saying players like Goody, Scarlett, Adelscott, Strelok or DieStar (just quoting the most painful ones) are better than IdrA which is beyond ridiculous. So you are incredibly biased towards EU random players or you are a hardcore IdrA hater. I just think IdrA is the most overrated player. Some polls i've seen recently kinda shocked me. I concluded that alot of people think IdrA is for sure in the top3 if it comes to foreigners, hell, to some people he's top1. I may have overreacted a bit, but I think Strelok, Scarlett or DieStar with their latest form have at least a 50/50 shot vs IdrA.
Frankly, I think people just suck at estimating the relative skill levels of players. EU players tend to be in this "walled garden" of EU-centric tournaments. Players will have a ton of success around players that are around their own skill level, but then will get crushed the moment they step into a tournament with even Code B/Code A Koreans.
Meanwhile, people will talk about IdrA's running losses, and forget that he's been playing Code A/Code S Koreans, or foreigners with proven successes in high profile tournaments (not counting the IEM World Champs, that was just bad).
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On May 01 2012 05:41 CruiseR wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 05:34 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
And who the hell are Tefel and fraer? Are they even real people or did you just smash they keyboard in a tongue-in-cheek attempt to claim that even fake people are better than IdrA. Your personal favorite gamers =/= Best gamers necessarily.
. You don't even know top3 polish player that has awesome online results recently? , and a player from Ukraine that won like 10 cups like zotac in last few weeks? For example, I would put fraer over White-Ra easily right now. and i don't even have the reason to "like" the guy.
well you are hyping them coz you are polak, tefei and fraer is low gm players that havent won anythink ever, you hawe to be really stupid or biased like you to putt them over idra and whitera. Oh man, top 3 polish? What about mana, nercio, diestar? Lol i played tefei few times, hadnt had much trouble against him even tho hes top3 polak lol.
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On May 01 2012 07:00 Smoodish wrote:
i always try to catch Hui streaming to see if he's any good but never catch him due to timezones conflicting. Anyone have any idea what times he normally streams (EST time preferably ) ?
Pardon my ignorance, but who is he?
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United Kingdom38257 Posts
The EG brand is pretty amazing, 3 players in the 15 most watched streams and only one is even half good.
On May 01 2012 07:01 Aocowns wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 07:00 Smoodish wrote:
i always try to catch Hui streaming to see if he's any good but never catch him due to timezones conflicting. Anyone have any idea what times he normally streams (EST time preferably ) ? Pardon my ignorance, but who is he?
Taiwanese pro, plays for the Xpec Ironmen in the TESL
(fun fact, taiwanese teams have the best logos in sc2)
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That's some interesting numbers, the first thing I did after looking over the list was opening non-featured tab to find Hui's stream.. and ofc it was online :-P.
Regarding the discussion of skill vs. viewernumbers it's only reasonable that people wanna watch the stream offering the most and if there is commentary, bm or other stuff alongside the laddering it will simply be better. That said, I dont watch streams that much, but thats mainly because I dont find the 1. person view that intriguing. I prefer 3. person view used in tournaments!
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On May 01 2012 07:03 Asha` wrote:The EG brand is pretty amazing, 3 players in the 15 most watched streams and only one is even half good. Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 07:01 Aocowns wrote:On May 01 2012 07:00 Smoodish wrote:
i always try to catch Hui streaming to see if he's any good but never catch him due to timezones conflicting. Anyone have any idea what times he normally streams (EST time preferably ) ? Pardon my ignorance, but who is he? Taiwanese pro, plays for the Xpec Ironmen in the TESL (fun fact, taiwanese teams have the best logos in sc2)
good streamer =/= good... grubby is badass and top streamer according to this but he isnt gonna win GSL anytime soon...
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On May 01 2012 07:00 Smoodish wrote:
i always try to catch Hui streaming to see if he's any good but never catch him due to timezones conflicting. Anyone have any idea what times he normally streams (EST time preferably ) ?
He's on the better part of a day - hell he's on right now.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
wow asha` lol
big fuck you too!
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Destiny streams so much at odd hours that the number he averages is actaully pretty good. He's always on at like 3 AM EST, which means half of America is asleep and Europe is waking up or at work / school.
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SO RELEVANT:+ Show Spoiler +
As for Idra's level, he's definitely top 15. At least overall. He's had overall more accomplishments than most foreigners except Nani, Stephano, etc.. His play is good even if it doesn't feel like it, considering his recent results. You can't ever count Idra out.
I agree that overall Europeans are better than their NA counterparts. But only slightly.
Oh and Destiny ftw! 288 hours for the god damn win. LOVE his stream SO hard. Catz doesn't get enough love when he streams though
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CruiseR
Poland4014 Posts
On May 01 2012 07:01 demitap wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 05:41 CruiseR wrote:On May 01 2012 05:34 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
And who the hell are Tefel and fraer? Are they even real people or did you just smash they keyboard in a tongue-in-cheek attempt to claim that even fake people are better than IdrA. Your personal favorite gamers =/= Best gamers necessarily.
. You don't even know top3 polish player that has awesome online results recently? , and a player from Ukraine that won like 10 cups like zotac in last few weeks? For example, I would put fraer over White-Ra easily right now. and i don't even have the reason to "like" the guy. well you are hyping them coz you are polak, tefei and fraer is low gm players that havent won anythink ever, you hawe to be really stupid or biased like you to putt them over idra and whitera. Oh man, top 3 polish? What about mana, nercio, diestar? Lol i played tefei few times, hadnt had much trouble against him even tho hes top3 polak lol.
You are such an ignorant saying that "Tefel and fraer are low gm players that havent won anything yet". Plus you can't even spell his nickname correctly. I won't even start a discussion with you. And yeah sure, you are beating Tefel on ladder without much problems, good job with that ; )
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/QgFSY.jpg)
