Remember my article about the HomestoryCup? I published another one about Khaldor and Starcaft in the "Tagesspiegel" - a famous German newspaper.
Please click on it, so they will probably let me write more about esport. Thank you guys.
Here , you can also comment and (dis)like it on reddit if you want
I translated it as well:
In Germany, their names are Marcel Reif, Wolff-Christoph Fuss or Bela Réthy. Almost everybody knows them as they commentate the favourite sport of the Germans – football. Only few know Thomas Kilian. He lives in South Korea, where he commentates the computer game “Starcraft 2” on a professional level. Electronic sport, e-sport, has not only within Asia developed towards a public phenomenon. On a global scale, tens of thousand are following Kilian via livestream.
„This is so epic, unbelievable! What a comeback!“ When Thomas Kilian is doing his job, pure passion comes out of him. From his room in Seoul or from big tournaments, as recently from “IGN Pro League” in Las Vegas, the 30 years old from Heidelberg, Germany, commentates the strategy game.
The biggest e-sports tournament in the world, the MLG (Major League Gaming) was held six times in 2011, at peak times followed by more than 240,000 viewers from 175 countries at the same time on its live streams. Caster, as commentators like Kilian are called in technical language, greatly contribute to this development. "They immediately point out if a player does some nice moves and tatics so it is possible for viewers without a lot of experience to understand what is going on," says Jonathan “DarkForce” Belke, one of the best players within Germany. The caster has to face the difficult challenge not to bore veteran players but also not to scare away rookies, so-called noobs, due to shoptalk. Already in school, Kilian had been active in the e-sport community under his ID “Khaldor”. In 2001, he made first experiences as a caster. “I got first instructions on what I have to focus, before just starting on a gut level.” At this point of time, viewer numbers above 100 were seen as great success.
Next to his hobby, he studied International Business Administration. However, “since my heart was committed to e-sports, I decided to try my luck as a caster for one year.” During this summer, in 2010, “Starcraft 2” was published. Due to new technological possibilities, various players and casters quickly offered livestreams to watch. Thanks to added commercials, one can earn some extra money by streaming. „Khaldor“ experienced his breakthrough by chance. As the English caster of a big tournament bored their viewers, a lot of them switched to Khaldor’s German stream. Quite surprised, he was faced with more than 20 pages of foremost positive feedback on his page. Although, the great majority of the viewers did not speak a word German, they were fascinated by “Khaldors” crazy-impassionate style to cast. Thus, he became a topic within the community starting to cast in English from time to time.
By now, he lives in Seoul for more than half a year. He commentates the Korean Global Starcraft League (GSL), which can be considered as Champions League of “Starcraft 2”. Moreover, he casts Korean and European tournaments. He is contracted with the Korean channel “GomTV” broadcasting Starcraft to prime time. By doing so, he earns good money: “It is enough to save a bit each month.” However, a lot of people do not understand that it is hard work, “what I am doing. If I see 18 years old teenager starting to cast a bit, thinking they would be rich, I have to smirk.” He is working the whole week, sometimes all around the clock. In the evening, he casts the GSL for „GomTV”. Tournaments, which take place within Europe, he has to commentate by night due to clock changes. In the morning, he attends a Korean language class. Around noon, he then tries to find some sleep before the same procedures starts all over again. According to him, his chances to get promoted are limited.
Actually, he casts “Code A”, which can be considered as second division of GSL. The first division, “Code S” is occupied by a legendary duo, the Americans Dan “Artosis” Stemkoski and Nicolas “Tasteless” Plott. “There is no way around the casting archon”, says Kilian.
And damn google does a good job translating German. When I had it translate the entire page it was extremely readable and compared quite well to your translation.
Awesome article. It was a nice chance to see if I could make sense of something in german, and apparently I don't fare that poorly, provided I can look up a word or two to clarify things
Great job at helping spread the word in non-gaming media!
Indeed, the chance of promotion is low. The community in general is so used to Tastosis and identify themselves with them. When Wolf was casting with Artosis few days ago, majority think that they are really good but just can't be compared to the casting archon. Personally, I prefer Artosis and Wolf. Tastosis is farming well on their accumulated advantage (or Matthew effect).
Good article, makes me all happy to see SC2 get some coverage in a newspaper. Dan+Nick should know about this, being called legends in a printed article
On April 28 2012 22:39 Maxilicious wrote: Indeed, the chance of promotion is low. The community in general is so used to Tastosis and identify themselves with them. When Wolf was casting with Artosis few days ago, majority think that they are really good but just can't be compared to the casting archon. Personally, I prefer Artosis and Wolf. Tastosis is farming well on their accumulated advantage (or Matthew effect).
Juding from the LR thread, majority thought that wolf + Artosis was better than tastosis to be fair. I could be wrong but thats the genral feel i got.
On April 28 2012 22:39 Maxilicious wrote: Indeed, the chance of promotion is low. The community in general is so used to Tastosis and identify themselves with them. When Wolf was casting with Artosis few days ago, majority think that they are really good but just can't be compared to the casting archon. Personally, I prefer Artosis and Wolf. Tastosis is farming well on their accumulated advantage (or Matthew effect).
Juding from the LR thread, majority thought that wolf + Artosis was better than tastosis to be fair. I could be wrong but thats the genral feel i got.
On April 28 2012 22:23 Hall0wed wrote: Nice article!
And damn google does a good job translating German. When I had it translate the entire page it was extremely readable and compared quite well to your translation.
That's because the german language is very strict grammatically. I can see google easily translating german into english. Not to mention english is germanic at it's roots.
Glad Khaldor has seemed to "explode" into the scene. I personally stumbled upon his stream the exact way they described. I was bored watching something, and he was casting so I clicked it and fell in love with him!
On April 28 2012 22:23 Hall0wed wrote: Nice article!
And damn google does a good job translating German. When I had it translate the entire page it was extremely readable and compared quite well to your translation.
That's because the german language is very strict grammatically. I can see google easily translating german into english. Not to mention english is germanic at it's roots.
Glad Khaldor has seemed to "explode" into the scene. I personally stumbled upon his stream the exact way they described. I was bored watching something, and he was casting so I clicked it and fell in love with him!
Was it by any chance assembly? XD
I remember when the main english casters were just awful and people in the LR thread "even though I don't speak German you can feel the energy!" then suddenly the main stream has 1k viewers and Khaldor is rocking 10k XD
Oh hi! I read the article in the printed version of the Tagesspiegel and was (positively) surprised to see something like that there. Keep up the good work, the article is very well done.
On April 28 2012 22:23 Hall0wed wrote: Nice article!
And damn google does a good job translating German. When I had it translate the entire page it was extremely readable and compared quite well to your translation.
That's because the german language is very strict grammatically. I can see google easily translating german into english. Not to mention english is germanic at it's roots. [...]
Well, it's not that easy. The German language has quite a few pecularities that will easily throw off a machine translation, especially when sentences are ambiguous in many ways.
Take for example the simple sentence "Paul liebt Anna." In German -- like in English -- the prefered word order is Subject- Verb-Object (SVO) which puts the translation as "Paul loves Anna." However, as the SVO word order is only prefered but not strict, sentences may deviate and go with a less common OVS word order. So the given example then would translate as "Anna loves Paul." (or more literally: "Paul is whom Anna loves.") This secondary word order is usually chosen when emphasis needs to be put or if a question like "Wen liebt Anna?" ("Who does Anna love?", "Anna loves whom?") is answered.
Another thing that usually confuses machine translation is subordinate clauses which in German take the S(O)V word order, i.e. "Er ist nicht ins Kino gegangen, da es gestern regnete." has the verb move all the way to the end of the sentence translating as "He did not go to the movies, because it rained yesterday." The main and subordinate clauses could also -- like in English -- be switched so it becomes "Da es gestern regnete, ist er nicht ins Kino gegangen." and translates as "Because it rained yesterday, he did not go to the movies."
And then you have -- like in English -- word ambiguities which will throw off machine translations. A sentence like "Der Jaguar ist schnell." could mean "The jaguar is fast." (the animal) or "The Jaguar is fast." (the car). In this example English is better off than German because it will only capitalize a brand name, not every noun as is the rule in the German language. Another example for cross-language word ambiguity is "Die Isolation schlug fehl." which could either translate as "The isolation failed." (exclusion, displacement) or "The insulation failed." (electrical shielding).
So while some of the things you mentioned certainly help a German to English machine translation, there are still several pitfalls, which makes it largely dependent on the structure of the original text and luck.
For some of the inherent pecularities of German in a comedic relief setting, I recommend reading The Awful German Language by Mark Twain. Also, there is this short and sweet list of common German beginner mistakes.
On April 28 2012 22:23 Hall0wed wrote: Nice article!
And damn google does a good job translating German. When I had it translate the entire page it was extremely readable and compared quite well to your translation.
That's because the german language is very strict grammatically. I can see google easily translating german into english. Not to mention english is germanic at it's roots. [...]
Well, it's not that easy. The German language has quite a few pecularities that will easily throw off a machine translation, especially when sentences are ambiguous in many ways.
Take for example the simple sentence "Paul liebt Anna." In German -- like in English -- the prefered word order is Subject- Verb-Object (SVO) which puts the translation as "Paul loves Anna." However, as the SVO word order is only prefered but not strict, sentences may deviate and go with a less common OVS word order. So the given example then would translate as "Anna loves Paul." (or more literally: "Paul is whom Anna loves.") This secondary word order is usually chosen when emphasis needs to be put or if a question like "Wen liebt Anna?" ("Who does Anna love?", "Anna loves whom?") is answered.
Another thing that usually confuses machine translation is subordinate clauses which in German take the S(O)V word order, i.e. "Er ist nicht ins Kino gegangen, da es gestern regnete." has the verb move all the way to the end of the sentence translating as "He did not go to the movies, because it rained yesterday." The main and subordinate clauses could also -- like in English -- be switched so it becomes "Da es gestern regnete, ist er nicht ins Kino gegangen." and translates as "Because it rained yesterday, he did not go to the movies."
And then you have -- like in English -- word ambiguities which will throw off machine translations. A sentence like "Der Jaguar ist schnell." could mean "The jaguar is fast." (the animal) or "The Jaguar is fast." (the car). In this example English is better off than German because it will only capitalize a brand name, not every noun as is the rule in the German language. Another example for cross-language word ambiguity is "Die Isolation schlug fehl." which could either translate as "The isolation failed." (exclusion, displacement) or "The insulation failed." (electrical shielding).
So while some of the things you mentioned certainly help a German to English machine translation, there are still several pitfalls, which makes it largely dependent on the structure of the original text and luck.
For some of the inherent pecularities of German in a comedic relief setting, I recommend reading The Awful German Language by Mark Twain. Also, there is this short and sweet list of common German beginner mistakes.
Obviously context is of pivotal importance, if you are watching a video about cars then "Der Jaguar ist schnell." obviously does not mean the animal...
On April 28 2012 22:23 Hall0wed wrote: Nice article!
And damn google does a good job translating German. When I had it translate the entire page it was extremely readable and compared quite well to your translation.
That's because the german language is very strict grammatically. I can see google easily translating german into english. Not to mention english is germanic at it's roots. [...]
Well, it's not that easy. The German language has quite a few pecularities that will easily throw off a machine translation, especially when sentences are ambiguous in many ways.
Take for example the simple sentence "Paul liebt Anna." In German -- like in English -- the prefered word order is Subject- Verb-Object (SVO) which puts the translation as "Paul loves Anna." However, as the SVO word order is only prefered but not strict, sentences may deviate and go with a less common OVS word order. So the given example then would translate as "Anna loves Paul." (or more literally: "Paul is whom Anna loves.") This secondary word order is usually chosen when emphasis needs to be put or if a question like "Wen liebt Anna?" ("Who does Anna love?", "Anna loves whom?") is answered.
Another thing that usually confuses machine translation is subordinate clauses which in German take the S(O)V word order, i.e. "Er ist nicht ins Kino gegangen, da es gestern regnete." has the verb move all the way to the end of the sentence translating as "He did not go to the movies, because it rained yesterday." The main and subordinate clauses could also -- like in English -- be switched so it becomes "Da es gestern regnete, ist er nicht ins Kino gegangen." and translates as "Because it rained yesterday, he did not go to the movies."
And then you have -- like in English -- word ambiguities which will throw off machine translations. A sentence like "Der Jaguar ist schnell." could mean "The jaguar is fast." (the animal) or "The Jaguar is fast." (the car). In this example English is better off than German because it will only capitalize a brand name, not every noun as is the rule in the German language. Another example for cross-language word ambiguity is "Die Isolation schlug fehl." which could either translate as "The isolation failed." (exclusion, displacement) or "The insulation failed." (electrical shielding).
So while some of the things you mentioned certainly help a German to English machine translation, there are still several pitfalls, which makes it largely dependent on the structure of the original text and luck.
For some of the inherent pecularities of German in a comedic relief setting, I recommend reading The Awful German Language by Mark Twain. Also, there is this short and sweet list of common German beginner mistakes.
Obviously context is of pivotal importance, if you are watching a video about cars then "Der Jaguar ist schnell." obviously does not mean the animal...
Tell Google Translate that.
Machine translation usually is not well equipped to discover context. Computer engineers and linguists are still working on this front which also includes resolving such things as anaphora. Another can of worms is detecting idioms.
Good read, I think the last line got edited though:
Die erste Liga ist mit einem in der Szene legendären Duo besetzt, den Amerikanern Dan „Artosis“ Stemkoski und Nicolas „Tasteless“ Plott. „An ihnen“, sagt Kilian, „führt kein Weg vorbei. + Show Spoiler [Google Translate] +
The first division is staffed with a scene in the legendary duo, the Americans Dan "Artosis" Stemkoski and Nicolas "Tasteless" Plott. "To them," said Kilian, "there is no way.
I guess the public wouldn't understand "casting archon" lol.
Yeah, the author translated into TL lingo, I reckon. This would be a more verbatim translation: The premier league is taken by a duo legendary in the scene, the Americans Dan "Artosis" Stemkoski and Nicolas "Tasteless" Plott. "There is", says Killian, "no way around them."
I think Khaldor should get the opportunity to pair with Artosis and cast Code S as well - the duo worked very well in Code A. I love Tasteless, him and Khaldor both seem more like play-by-play guys, and you just NEED an analysis guy in the duo.
Nice to see mention of the way Khaldor got big and many people (including myself) were introduced to him. It seems so long ago I had already forgotten it.
Thanks all of you for giving me a lot of pleasant feedback. It is nice - also important - to see, that people being quite into the game do like the article as well. In a newspaper, I obviously have to write it in such a way, that a reader, which never heard about this game, does understand what I am talking... I am really hopeful that my chiefs will recognize there being a great potential to attract a whole branch to their newspaper - particularly given the fact that the online sector is getting more and more important.
Very nice article, I hope you get a good amount of reads on that.
And I also have to emphazise Khaldors work ethic, it always baffles me to see him stream so many days a week till 4-5 am korean time after just haviong cast Code A for hours.
was that also published in the printed edition? Or is it an online-only article?
I want to know this, too!
But it is already very impressive that you managed to get your article up on their website, quite a feat indeed! Well written, too. I like that you depict him as the hard-working and likeable man he is. I am getting the feeling that videogames are slowly getting socially acceptable :D
On April 28 2012 22:23 Hall0wed wrote: Nice article!
And damn google does a good job translating German. When I had it translate the entire page it was extremely readable and compared quite well to your translation.
That's because the german language is very strict grammatically. I can see google easily translating german into english. Not to mention english is germanic at it's roots. [...]
Well, it's not that easy. The German language has quite a few pecularities that will easily throw off a machine translation, especially when sentences are ambiguous in many ways.
Take for example the simple sentence "Paul liebt Anna." In German -- like in English -- the prefered word order is Subject- Verb-Object (SVO) which puts the translation as "Paul loves Anna." However, as the SVO word order is only prefered but not strict, sentences may deviate and go with a less common OVS word order. So the given example then would translate as "Anna loves Paul." (or more literally: "Paul is whom Anna loves.") This secondary word order is usually chosen when emphasis needs to be put or if a question like "Wen liebt Anna?" ("Who does Anna love?", "Anna loves whom?") is answered.
Another thing that usually confuses machine translation is subordinate clauses which in German take the S(O)V word order, i.e. "Er ist nicht ins Kino gegangen, da es gestern regnete." has the verb move all the way to the end of the sentence translating as "He did not go to the movies, because it rained yesterday." The main and subordinate clauses could also -- like in English -- be switched so it becomes "Da es gestern regnete, ist er nicht ins Kino gegangen." and translates as "Because it rained yesterday, he did not go to the movies."
And then you have -- like in English -- word ambiguities which will throw off machine translations. A sentence like "Der Jaguar ist schnell." could mean "The jaguar is fast." (the animal) or "The Jaguar is fast." (the car). In this example English is better off than German because it will only capitalize a brand name, not every noun as is the rule in the German language. Another example for cross-language word ambiguity is "Die Isolation schlug fehl." which could either translate as "The isolation failed." (exclusion, displacement) or "The insulation failed." (electrical shielding).
So while some of the things you mentioned certainly help a German to English machine translation, there are still several pitfalls, which makes it largely dependent on the structure of the original text and luck.
For some of the inherent pecularities of German in a comedic relief setting, I recommend reading The Awful German Language by Mark Twain. Also, there is this short and sweet list of common German beginner mistakes.
AFAIK: Unless it's a particular kind of sentence, the verb is always in position two, and if it's not in position two, the verb is extremely close to position two (usually one or three), and another infinitive has been kicked to the back of the sentence. Mit Deutsch, the listener sometimes has to listen to the whole sentence, til they land at the end where the verbs are. And the word confusion is applicable for any language. There are always words that can be confusing and cross-translated. However as a whole, German is very structured. I'm no professional or bi-linguist, but I took 4 years of german (2 in highschool, 2 in post-secondary university) and it's always been consistent on S-V1-MODIFIERS-V2 (modifiers - Time/manner/place, in that order)
Unless it's a dependent claused tacked on the end of another clause: "Ich esse Abendessen, weil habe hunger ich." ---- "I eat dinner becuase have hunger I" obviously this is a very elementary sentence, but the point is taken. past-tense? "Ich habe Abendessen gegessen, weil habe hunger ich." ---- "I ate dinner because I am hungery." future-tense? "Ich werde Abendessen essen, wiel habe hunger ich." ---- "I will eat dinner because I'm hungry
They're all basically the same sentence, and you can see where the grammatical shift occurs. While keeping the exact same structure. That's what always confused me with other languages. Thoughts like "holy shit, this verb idea is great! why don't all languages employ this?" or something like "Wow, I love how these words translate to exactly what their idea of it is." Kinda like refrigerator,
Kuhlshrank, or "cool cabinet"
JUST FUCKING HILARIOUS and INTUITIVE.
I dunno, I love germany, the people, the culture, and the language. And maybe I'm being over-zealous, I just don't normally get to talk German grammatical structure too often. As I've stated before, obviously there are exceptions, but my major point leans on how few exceptions there are compared to english. Translating from ANY language to english might prove a challenge for any translator. But I think translating english-to-german would be much easier than the other way around.
Unless it's a dependent claused tacked on the end of another clause: "Ich esse Abendessen, weil habe hunger ich." ---- "I eat dinner becuase have hunger I" obviously this is a very elementary sentence, but the point is taken. past-tense? "Ich habe Abendessen gegessen, weil habe hunger ich." ---- "I ate dinner because I am hungery." future-tense? "Ich werde Abendessen essen, wiel habe hunger ich." ---- "I will eat dinner because I'm hungry
They're all basically the same sentence, and you can see where the grammatical shift occurs. While keeping the exact same structure. That's what always confused me with other languages. Thoughts like "holy shit, this verb idea is great! why don't all languages employ this?" or something like "Wow, I love how these words translate to exactly what their idea of it is." Kinda like refrigerator,
Unless it's a dependent claused tacked on the end of another clause: "Ich esse Abendessen, weil habe hunger ich." ---- "I eat dinner becuase have hunger I" obviously this is a very elementary sentence, but the point is taken. past-tense? "Ich habe Abendessen gegessen, weil habe hunger ich." ---- "I ate dinner because I am hungery." future-tense? "Ich werde Abendessen essen, wiel habe hunger ich." ---- "I will eat dinner because I'm hungry
They're all basically the same sentence, and you can see where the grammatical shift occurs. While keeping the exact same structure. That's what always confused me with other languages. Thoughts like "holy shit, this verb idea is great! why don't all languages employ this?" or something like "Wow, I love how these words translate to exactly what their idea of it is." Kinda like refrigerator,
Kuhlshrank, or "cool cabinet"
JUST FUCKING HILARIOUS and INTUITIVE.
[...]
Sorry to say, but none of these are grammatically correct nor used in spoken language. It is instead:
"..., weil ich hunger habe", therefore putting the verb at the end of the sentence again.
with ",..., weil hunger habe ich" you'd probably get some peculiar looks.
regarding my non-german-speaking sentence structure flaw, you've just proven my point even better. the whole post was about structure, which you've clearly just demonstrated.
EPT
