Major League Gaming and DreamHack Announce Collaboration Tied to StarCraft II Tournaments This Weekend
Winner of DreamHack EIZO Open to Secure Placement at MLG Spring Arena #2
In an effort to further league coordination, Major League Gaming and DreamHack today announced direct correlation between this weekend’s anticipated StarCraft II competitions – MLG’s Spring Arena #1 April 20 – 22, and DreamHack’s EIZO Open April 21 - 22.
The top player from DreamHack’s EIZO Open will qualify into MLG’s Spring Arena #2, taking place May 18-20 in New York City. The first place finisher will receive a fully paid trip to NYC to compete amongst 32 of the world’s best players, including some of those competing at Spring Arena #1 this weekend, and a chance to make the Pools for the MLG Spring Championship in Anaheim on June 8-10. MLG will be extending the player one of the European qualifying spots from the upcoming MLG Invite-Only Online Qualifier.
On April 19 2012 04:32 Recoil wrote: Nice! I always love when tournament winners get seeded into other tournies because that means they truely deserve it.
meh I don't know about deserving a seeded spot. It's a good cohesive for the scene but I'm not the biggest fan of seeded spots.
On April 19 2012 04:32 Recoil wrote: Nice! I always love when tournament winners get seeded into other tournies because that means they truely deserve it.
I think it will just mean another Korean will get a seed, not that it's a bad thing
On April 19 2012 04:31 MLGAnnouncements wrote:MLG will be extending the player one of the European qualifying spots from the upcoming MLG Invite-Only Online Qualifier.
I don't understand that sentence. Could someone explain it to me please ?
Great to see two of the giants working together, hopefully Naniwa will finally be victorious at his home ground, and as a bonus receive a seed to MLG! :D
On April 19 2012 04:31 MLGAnnouncements wrote:MLG will be extending the player one of the European qualifying spots from the upcoming MLG Invite-Only Online Qualifier.
I don't understand that sentence. Could someone explain it to me please ?
The Qualifier will have a select number of spots per region. Some for North America, some for Europe, and some for Korea/SEA. The winner of Dreamhack will get one of the spots from Europe.
Is that clear enough? I dunno, I don't often have to explain English to foreigners.
On April 19 2012 04:31 MLGAnnouncements wrote:MLG will be extending the player one of the European qualifying spots from the upcoming MLG Invite-Only Online Qualifier.
I don't understand that sentence. Could someone explain it to me please ?
The Qualifier will have a select number of spots per region. Some for North America, some for Europe, and some for Korea/SEA. The winner of Dreamhack will get one of the spots from Europe.
Is that clear enough? I dunno, I don't often have to explain English to foreigners.
No, the reason it's not clear is because the DH winner will receive a direct invite to the 32 man spring arena 2. Therefore, why would he also need an invite to the qualifier when he doesn't need to play in the qualifier?
On April 19 2012 04:31 MLGAnnouncements wrote:MLG will be extending the player one of the European qualifying spots from the upcoming MLG Invite-Only Online Qualifier.
I don't understand that sentence. Could someone explain it to me please ?
The Qualifier will have a select number of spots per region. Some for North America, some for Europe, and some for Korea/SEA. The winner of Dreamhack will get one of the spots from Europe.
Is that clear enough? I dunno, I don't often have to explain English to foreigners.
AHHHHH Yes it's clear now. Thanks
I felt something was missing like "extending to the player" but maybe to extend is transitive. I didn't know that.
On April 19 2012 04:32 Recoil wrote: Nice! I always love when tournament winners get seeded into other tournies because that means they truely deserve it.
meh I don't know about deserving a seeded spot. It's a good cohesive for the scene but I'm not the biggest fan of seeded spots.
See it as a qualifier then. It's different when a seed is just awarded on arbitrary grounds.
This is good news. Players now don't have to travel to every single event in order to qualify for other events. It also may reduce the amount over overlapping tournaments.
On April 19 2012 04:31 MLGAnnouncements wrote:MLG will be extending the player one of the European qualifying spots from the upcoming MLG Invite-Only Online Qualifier.
I don't understand that sentence. Could someone explain it to me please ?
The Qualifier will have a select number of spots per region. Some for North America, some for Europe, and some for Korea/SEA. The winner of Dreamhack will get one of the spots from Europe.
Is that clear enough? I dunno, I don't often have to explain English to foreigners.
No, the reason it's not clear is because the DH winner will receive a direct invite to the 32 man spring arena 2. Therefore, why would he also need an invite to the qualifier when he doesn't need to play in the qualifier?
"MLG will be extending the player one of the European qualifying spots from the upcoming MLG Invite-Only Online Qualifier."
That line means that we will be giving the DH winner one of the spots that was originally slated to come from the European Invite-Only Online Qualifier. There will be one less spot to be one via the European Invite-Only Qualifier as a result.
On April 19 2012 04:50 Kreb wrote: Sounds more like MLG deciding to pay a trip for the DH winner than a "collaboration" (unless DH is doing something similar in return?).
Though, still like to see stuff like this happen. Good job.
I doubt MLG are doing this out of the goodness of their heart. Obviously it's something in it for them as well.
On April 19 2012 04:31 MLGAnnouncements wrote:MLG will be extending the player one of the European qualifying spots from the upcoming MLG Invite-Only Online Qualifier.
I don't understand that sentence. Could someone explain it to me please ?
The Qualifier will have a select number of spots per region. Some for North America, some for Europe, and some for Korea/SEA. The winner of Dreamhack will get one of the spots from Europe.
Is that clear enough? I dunno, I don't often have to explain English to foreigners.
No, the reason it's not clear is because the DH winner will receive a direct invite to the 32 man spring arena 2. Therefore, why would he also need an invite to the qualifier when he doesn't need to play in the qualifier?
"MLG will be extending the player one of the European qualifying spots from the upcoming MLG Invite-Only Online Qualifier."
That line means that we will be giving the DH winner one of the spots that was originally slated to come from the European Invite-Only Online Qualifier. There will be one less spot to be one via the European Invite-Only Qualifier as a result.
Hope that clears things up.
Wait, so there will only be 7 from euro qualifiers now + dh winner? I'd assume DH winner would just take 1 of the 4 invite spots for spring arena 2 because if I remember it right it goes like this.
Region qualifiers - 8+8+8 = 24 Top 4 from spring arena 1 4 invites
Therefore if the DH player is not one of the 4 invites, where will they come from? BW pros maybe?
On April 19 2012 04:31 MLGAnnouncements wrote:MLG will be extending the player one of the European qualifying spots from the upcoming MLG Invite-Only Online Qualifier.
I don't understand that sentence. Could someone explain it to me please ?
The Qualifier will have a select number of spots per region. Some for North America, some for Europe, and some for Korea/SEA. The winner of Dreamhack will get one of the spots from Europe.
Is that clear enough? I dunno, I don't often have to explain English to foreigners.
No, the reason it's not clear is because the DH winner will receive a direct invite to the 32 man spring arena 2. Therefore, why would he also need an invite to the qualifier when he doesn't need to play in the qualifier?
"MLG will be extending the player one of the European qualifying spots from the upcoming MLG Invite-Only Online Qualifier."
That line means that we will be giving the DH winner one of the spots that was originally slated to come from the European Invite-Only Online Qualifier. There will be one less spot to be one via the European Invite-Only Qualifier as a result.
Hope that clears things up.
That is just stupid though, you make it sound as if Dreamhack is a european only tournament LOL. T_T
On April 19 2012 04:31 MLGAnnouncements wrote:MLG will be extending the player one of the European qualifying spots from the upcoming MLG Invite-Only Online Qualifier.
I don't understand that sentence. Could someone explain it to me please ?
The Qualifier will have a select number of spots per region. Some for North America, some for Europe, and some for Korea/SEA. The winner of Dreamhack will get one of the spots from Europe.
Is that clear enough? I dunno, I don't often have to explain English to foreigners.
No, the reason it's not clear is because the DH winner will receive a direct invite to the 32 man spring arena 2. Therefore, why would he also need an invite to the qualifier when he doesn't need to play in the qualifier?
"MLG will be extending the player one of the European qualifying spots from the upcoming MLG Invite-Only Online Qualifier."
That line means that we will be giving the DH winner one of the spots that was originally slated to come from the European Invite-Only Online Qualifier. There will be one less spot to be one via the European Invite-Only Qualifier as a result.
Hope that clears things up.
That is just stupid though, you make it sound as if Dreamhack is a european only tournament LOL. T_T
You make it sound like every player in our online qualifier system is actually from the region is he trying to qualify from
On April 19 2012 04:31 MLGAnnouncements wrote:MLG will be extending the player one of the European qualifying spots from the upcoming MLG Invite-Only Online Qualifier.
I don't understand that sentence. Could someone explain it to me please ?
The Qualifier will have a select number of spots per region. Some for North America, some for Europe, and some for Korea/SEA. The winner of Dreamhack will get one of the spots from Europe.
Is that clear enough? I dunno, I don't often have to explain English to foreigners.
No, the reason it's not clear is because the DH winner will receive a direct invite to the 32 man spring arena 2. Therefore, why would he also need an invite to the qualifier when he doesn't need to play in the qualifier?
"MLG will be extending the player one of the European qualifying spots from the upcoming MLG Invite-Only Online Qualifier."
That line means that we will be giving the DH winner one of the spots that was originally slated to come from the European Invite-Only Online Qualifier. There will be one less spot to be one via the European Invite-Only Qualifier as a result.
Hope that clears things up.
That is just stupid though, you make it sound as if Dreamhack is a european only tournament LOL. T_T
I do think it kind of sucks because the players in the euro qualifiers are only competing for 7 spots now instead of 8 and the DH winner is not guaranteed to be from euro region.
On April 19 2012 04:31 MLGAnnouncements wrote:MLG will be extending the player one of the European qualifying spots from the upcoming MLG Invite-Only Online Qualifier.
I don't understand that sentence. Could someone explain it to me please ?
The Qualifier will have a select number of spots per region. Some for North America, some for Europe, and some for Korea/SEA. The winner of Dreamhack will get one of the spots from Europe.
Is that clear enough? I dunno, I don't often have to explain English to foreigners.
AHHHHH Yes it's clear now. Thanks
I felt something was missing like "extending to the player" but maybe to extend is transitive. I didn't know that.
Glad I could help. :D Yeah, "extending to the player one of the spots" and "extending the player on the spots" is essentially the same thing in this context. English is weird like that sometimes. >.<
On April 19 2012 04:31 MLGAnnouncements wrote:MLG will be extending the player one of the European qualifying spots from the upcoming MLG Invite-Only Online Qualifier.
I don't understand that sentence. Could someone explain it to me please ?
The Qualifier will have a select number of spots per region. Some for North America, some for Europe, and some for Korea/SEA. The winner of Dreamhack will get one of the spots from Europe.
Is that clear enough? I dunno, I don't often have to explain English to foreigners.
No, the reason it's not clear is because the DH winner will receive a direct invite to the 32 man spring arena 2. Therefore, why would he also need an invite to the qualifier when he doesn't need to play in the qualifier?
"MLG will be extending the player one of the European qualifying spots from the upcoming MLG Invite-Only Online Qualifier."
That line means that we will be giving the DH winner one of the spots that was originally slated to come from the European Invite-Only Online Qualifier. There will be one less spot to be one via the European Invite-Only Qualifier as a result.
Hope that clears things up.
That is just stupid though, you make it sound as if Dreamhack is a european only tournament LOL. T_T
You make it sound like every player in our online qualifier system is actually from the region is he trying to qualify from
EU has been pretty much 110% EU as far as I know, dont know about the rest.
On April 19 2012 04:31 MLGAnnouncements wrote:MLG will be extending the player one of the European qualifying spots from the upcoming MLG Invite-Only Online Qualifier.
I don't understand that sentence. Could someone explain it to me please ?
The Qualifier will have a select number of spots per region. Some for North America, some for Europe, and some for Korea/SEA. The winner of Dreamhack will get one of the spots from Europe.
Is that clear enough? I dunno, I don't often have to explain English to foreigners.
No, the reason it's not clear is because the DH winner will receive a direct invite to the 32 man spring arena 2. Therefore, why would he also need an invite to the qualifier when he doesn't need to play in the qualifier?
"MLG will be extending the player one of the European qualifying spots from the upcoming MLG Invite-Only Online Qualifier."
That line means that we will be giving the DH winner one of the spots that was originally slated to come from the European Invite-Only Online Qualifier. There will be one less spot to be one via the European Invite-Only Qualifier as a result.
Hope that clears things up.
That is just stupid though, you make it sound as if Dreamhack is a european only tournament LOL. T_T
You make it sound like every player in our online qualifier system is actually from the region is he trying to qualify from
EU has been pretty much 110% EU as far as I know, dont know about the rest.
Except for viOlet, everyone else was EU, yes.
Good they're working together, not sure how to feel about the spot being from the EU qualifiers, in the end it's probably one more Korean and one less European. Meh.
On April 19 2012 04:31 MLGAnnouncements wrote:MLG will be extending the player one of the European qualifying spots from the upcoming MLG Invite-Only Online Qualifier.
I don't understand that sentence. Could someone explain it to me please ?
The Qualifier will have a select number of spots per region. Some for North America, some for Europe, and some for Korea/SEA. The winner of Dreamhack will get one of the spots from Europe.
Is that clear enough? I dunno, I don't often have to explain English to foreigners.
No, the reason it's not clear is because the DH winner will receive a direct invite to the 32 man spring arena 2. Therefore, why would he also need an invite to the qualifier when he doesn't need to play in the qualifier?
"MLG will be extending the player one of the European qualifying spots from the upcoming MLG Invite-Only Online Qualifier."
That line means that we will be giving the DH winner one of the spots that was originally slated to come from the European Invite-Only Online Qualifier. There will be one less spot to be one via the European Invite-Only Qualifier as a result.
Hope that clears things up.
That is just stupid though, you make it sound as if Dreamhack is a european only tournament LOL. T_T
You make it sound like every player in our online qualifier system is actually from the region is he trying to qualify from
EU has been pretty much 110% EU as far as I know, dont know about the rest.
Except for viOlet, everyone else was EU, yes.
Good they're working together, not sure how to feel about the spot being from the EU qualifiers, in the end it's probably one more Korean and one less European. Meh.
I agree. i don't like the choice either.
I don't know if there are any rules for the qualifier. Last time it seems like everyone could decide in what region he wants to qualify. That wasn't a problem last time but what if koreans decide to qualify through the NA or EU qualifier? Wouldn't that make the region qualifier system useless? I think everyone should qualfier in the region he belongs to (depending on citizenship or place of residence) And if you want to give special invites then take them from the corresponding qualifier.
On April 19 2012 04:31 MLGAnnouncements wrote:MLG will be extending the player one of the European qualifying spots from the upcoming MLG Invite-Only Online Qualifier.
I don't understand that sentence. Could someone explain it to me please ?
The Qualifier will have a select number of spots per region. Some for North America, some for Europe, and some for Korea/SEA. The winner of Dreamhack will get one of the spots from Europe.
Is that clear enough? I dunno, I don't often have to explain English to foreigners.
No, the reason it's not clear is because the DH winner will receive a direct invite to the 32 man spring arena 2. Therefore, why would he also need an invite to the qualifier when he doesn't need to play in the qualifier?
"MLG will be extending the player one of the European qualifying spots from the upcoming MLG Invite-Only Online Qualifier."
That line means that we will be giving the DH winner one of the spots that was originally slated to come from the European Invite-Only Online Qualifier. There will be one less spot to be one via the European Invite-Only Qualifier as a result.
Hope that clears things up.
Wait, so there will only be 7 from euro qualifiers now + dh winner? I'd assume DH winner would just take 1 of the 4 invite spots for spring arena 2 because if I remember it right it goes like this.
Region qualifiers - 8+8+8 = 24 Top 4 from spring arena 1 4 invites
Therefore if the DH player is not one of the 4 invites, where will they come from? BW pros maybe?
I think they may have dropped the 4 invite spots because I read somewhere Europe and Korea are getting 10 from the qualifiers
On April 19 2012 05:09 MLG_Adam wrote: About to give away some PPV passes on twitter. Be ready
You are better than that, Adam. Canucklehead is bringing an important issue and you just announce to be giving PPV. Come on ! Don't treat us like 15y old emos
On April 19 2012 04:31 MLGAnnouncements wrote:MLG will be extending the player one of the European qualifying spots from the upcoming MLG Invite-Only Online Qualifier.
I don't understand that sentence. Could someone explain it to me please ?
The Qualifier will have a select number of spots per region. Some for North America, some for Europe, and some for Korea/SEA. The winner of Dreamhack will get one of the spots from Europe.
Is that clear enough? I dunno, I don't often have to explain English to foreigners.
No, the reason it's not clear is because the DH winner will receive a direct invite to the 32 man spring arena 2. Therefore, why would he also need an invite to the qualifier when he doesn't need to play in the qualifier?
"MLG will be extending the player one of the European qualifying spots from the upcoming MLG Invite-Only Online Qualifier."
That line means that we will be giving the DH winner one of the spots that was originally slated to come from the European Invite-Only Online Qualifier. There will be one less spot to be one via the European Invite-Only Qualifier as a result.
Hope that clears things up.
Wait, so there will only be 7 from euro qualifiers now + dh winner? I'd assume DH winner would just take 1 of the 4 invite spots for spring arena 2 because if I remember it right it goes like this.
Region qualifiers - 8+8+8 = 24 Top 4 from spring arena 1 4 invites
Therefore if the DH player is not one of the 4 invites, where will they come from? BW pros maybe?
I think they may have dropped the 4 invite spots because I read somewhere Europe and Korea are getting 10 from the qualifiers
I didn't hear that, but if that's true, then it makes losing 1 euro spot easier to understand.
On April 19 2012 05:09 MLG_Adam wrote: About to give away some PPV passes on twitter. Be ready
You are better than that, Adam. Canucklehead is bringing an important issue and you just announce to be giving PPV. Come on ! Don't treat us like 15y old emos
Wait, what did I do? My PPV give away post was not in response to anyone directly...I was just giving away passes.
On April 19 2012 04:31 MLGAnnouncements wrote:MLG will be extending the player one of the European qualifying spots from the upcoming MLG Invite-Only Online Qualifier.
I don't understand that sentence. Could someone explain it to me please ?
The Qualifier will have a select number of spots per region. Some for North America, some for Europe, and some for Korea/SEA. The winner of Dreamhack will get one of the spots from Europe.
Is that clear enough? I dunno, I don't often have to explain English to foreigners.
No, the reason it's not clear is because the DH winner will receive a direct invite to the 32 man spring arena 2. Therefore, why would he also need an invite to the qualifier when he doesn't need to play in the qualifier?
"MLG will be extending the player one of the European qualifying spots from the upcoming MLG Invite-Only Online Qualifier."
That line means that we will be giving the DH winner one of the spots that was originally slated to come from the European Invite-Only Online Qualifier. There will be one less spot to be one via the European Invite-Only Qualifier as a result.
Hope that clears things up.
Wait, so there will only be 7 from euro qualifiers now + dh winner? I'd assume DH winner would just take 1 of the 4 invite spots for spring arena 2 because if I remember it right it goes like this.
Region qualifiers - 8+8+8 = 24 Top 4 from spring arena 1 4 invites
Therefore if the DH player is not one of the 4 invites, where will they come from? BW pros maybe?
I think they may have dropped the 4 invite spots because I read somewhere Europe and Korea are getting 10 from the qualifiers
I didn't hear that, but if that's true, then it makes losing 1 euro spot easier to understand.
yeah they did change it. just found the mlg article on it
On April 19 2012 05:42 MLG John wrote: The Spring Arena #2 Invitations were originally allocated as follows:
(4) Spring Arena #1 - 1st-4th (10) Europe Invite-Only Online Qualifier - 1st-10th (10) Korea/Taiwan Invite-Only Online Qualifier - 1st-10th (8) North America Invite-Only Online Qualifier - 1st-8th
The Europe # has now been reduced to 9 and the following has been added: (1) 2012 DreamHack Open: Stockholm - 1st
Why does NA get the least for an NA tournament?
1 region had to have 2 less to make it 32 total. my guess is that there r more skilled eu/kr/tw players than usa players :D
On April 19 2012 05:46 archonOOid wrote: I thought that MLG and DH were competitors but i guess friend is even better <3
We're all in this together! I don't think any esports organization are trying to play the other one out, if u catch my drift. We all try our best to help eachother, this isn't a competition (except for the actual matches ofcourse :D )
CBSi/GameSpot Director of eSports Benito Gonzalez and DreamHack eSports boss Frederik "ponderosa" Nyström will be on Live On Three tonight to discuss all the news regarding the new CBSi deal with TwitchTV, MLG and NASL, and the new collaboration of MLG and DreamHack. Also full previews of MLG/DreamHack, Naniwa's triumph in GSL, and MLG's Adam Apiacella hinting at HotS and BW pros being featured at MLG Anaheim.
Good to see another tournament collaboration, really like it when a tournament winner gets an invite elsewhere, great addition imo. Now we have to see who wins ^^
There once was an eagle who entertained his animal friends with a singing contest every other month. He invited fellow animals to sing from his neck of the woods and also from the neighboring woods even though they hosted singing contests of their own. Although he struggled at first, contest after contest, these grew more popular and many more animals came to see the performances. But the eagle was not content, there was something on his mind.
A bear who lived in the far away woods had been entertaining animals with a singing contest of his own for quite a while now and always seemed more successful. The best singing animals always took part in that singing contest and many more animals came to see these performances.
The eagle was jealous of the bear. He wanted to host the best singing contest in all the woods, but the bear outdid him time and again. Then one day, he pays a visit to the bear in the far away woods. Surprisingly, the two get along well with each other and so the bear suggests they help each other out: The best singer of the eagle's contest may sing at the bear's contest, and in exchange, the bear will send four fellow animals with some of the most beautiful voices from his neck of the woods to the eagle's contest. Additionally, bear and eagle would not host their singing contests on the same days. The eagle agrees, his contest being less prestigious after all, and to be able to send his winner to the bear's contest would make his contest a lot more popular.
And so time passed, animals with the most beautiful voices being sent to far away woods, and the eagle growing more confident as many more fellow animals come to see his singing contest. With all this success, the eagle eventually is confident to pay the bear in the far away woods another visit. He wants to talk things over and agree on more equal terms. The bear is not thrilled and says that the best singing contest is his. They get into an argument, by the end of which they cancel their agreement.
Returning home empty-handed, the eagle draws up new plans to expand his singing contest. He adds qualifying contests for his main contest and starts to hold these contests more often with no regard for other singing contests. The friendly moose from the neighboring woods, who has also been hosting a singing contest in his neck of the woods, is not amused. All those extra qualifying contests hosted by the eagle on the same days continually draw contestants and spectators from his contest.
The moose pays the eagle a visit and inquires about the previous solidarity in the neighboring woods. The eagle shrugs it off and insists that his singing contest is better. But he's got an idea: The winner of the moose's contest would be allowed to take part in one of the qualifying contests hosted by the eagle, for a chance at the eagle's popular main singing contest and wouldn't that be swell. For want of other options, the moose accepts.
On April 19 2012 04:39 busbarn wrote: MLG coming out on top, making DH the qualifier for themselves. Anyway, it's good to see them work together for once.
I was thinking the exact same thing, pretty smart marketing. Dreamhack has to have some major issues to devalue their own product like this.
On April 19 2012 04:39 busbarn wrote: MLG coming out on top, making DH the qualifier for themselves. Anyway, it's good to see them work together for once.
I was thinking the exact same thing, pretty smart marketing. Dreamhack has to have some major issues to devalue their own product like this.
I was under the impression that Dreamhack wanted to do it's own thing and not cooperate with GOMTV or other organizers but I guess I was wrong about that.
Maybe the MLG business model of expanding aggressively (adding events, paying for travel costs of Korean pros) with the intention of showing a profit later on was to much to compete with for Dreamhack.
I'm hoping that this will mean that DH eventually will cooperate with GSL organizers as well. Hoping for a GSL (or GSTL) match in Sweden in the future so I will get to see that live
On April 19 2012 04:39 busbarn wrote: MLG coming out on top, making DH the qualifier for themselves. Anyway, it's good to see them work together for once.
I was thinking the exact same thing, pretty smart marketing. Dreamhack has to have some major issues to devalue their own product like this.
They make it sound like they are doing Dreamhack a favor, but they have much more to gain from this than Dreamhack. Very smart move by MLG. I kind of want Dreamhack to stay as far away from MLG/IPL/NASL as possible and remain a very prestigious European focused tournament.
Wow this is really great news, I'm glad that this is happening! Dream Hack has always been one of the biggest most awesome tournaments, I wish I could visit beautiful EU one day. :D
Not a big fan of seeded spots in different tours, it's the last thing sc2 needs imo, you already see the same players play over and over and over again...
On April 19 2012 14:36 GGzerG wrote: Wow this is really great news, I'm glad that this is happening! Dream Hack has always been one of the biggest most awesome tournaments, I wish I could visit beautiful EU one day. :D
You do realize EU isn't a country right?
Dreamhack is a swedish organisation with main events in Sweden (Dreamhack Summer) and smaller events like Stockholm Invitational/Stockholm Eizo Open.
Then there is ofcourse expanded events wich takes place in Spain and Romania aswell. But that's about it so far.
Saying for example: "I wish i could visit beautiful Usa one day". That would make sense since it's a whole country wich has states instead of a large amount of countries combined.
But saying: "I wish I could visit beautiful EU one day" doesn't make sense since it's a just a term for a big chunk of countries wich would mean you would have to visit every single country in the EU to find out if EU really is that beautiful as you think.
Hmm. I'm not a fan. While I do love watching the GSL, I also like to see foreigners compete for the story line. But now, if DH goes to a Korean, that is one less foreigner who will get to participate in the spring Arena 2. Also, what about your rules, if you qualify from a specific region MLG will fly you out from that region, otherwise you only get a travel stipend? Is that no longer the case just for this specific event?
In general it seems like marketing as a way to cover for the whoops we fucked up and scheduled these events on the same weekend and nothing else. Oh well, hopefully the spring championship is great because I haven't really been liking the arena decisions until now.
Yay! awesome collaboration. Maybe they can also collaborate to play different weekends than each other Love both tournaments. Hope this works out well for both!
On April 19 2012 14:36 GGzerG wrote: Wow this is really great news, I'm glad that this is happening! Dream Hack has always been one of the biggest most awesome tournaments, I wish I could visit beautiful EU one day. :D
You do realize EU isn't a country right?
Dreamhack is a swedish organisation with main events in Sweden (Dreamhack Summer) and smaller events like Stockholm Invitational/Stockholm Eizo Open.
Then there is ofcourse expanded events wich takes place in Spain and Romania aswell. But that's about it so far.
Saying for example: "I wish i could visit beautiful Usa one day". That would make sense since it's a whole country wich has states instead of a large amount of countries combined.
But saying: "I wish I could visit beautiful EU one day" doesn't make sense since it's a just a term for a big chunk of countries wich would mean you would have to visit every single country in the EU to find out if EU really is that beautiful as you think.
rant rant rant .... i know.
All he said is I wish I could visit beautiful Europe one day. It makes perfect sense. He wants to visit Europe one day.
On April 19 2012 14:36 GGzerG wrote: Wow this is really great news, I'm glad that this is happening! Dream Hack has always been one of the biggest most awesome tournaments, I wish I could visit beautiful EU one day. :D
You do realize EU isn't a country right?
Dreamhack is a swedish organisation with main events in Sweden (Dreamhack Summer) and smaller events like Stockholm Invitational/Stockholm Eizo Open.
Then there is ofcourse expanded events wich takes place in Spain and Romania aswell. But that's about it so far.
Saying for example: "I wish i could visit beautiful Usa one day". That would make sense since it's a whole country wich has states instead of a large amount of countries combined.
But saying: "I wish I could visit beautiful EU one day" doesn't make sense since it's a just a term for a big chunk of countries wich would mean you would have to visit every single country in the EU to find out if EU really is that beautiful as you think.
rant rant rant .... i know.
All he said is I wish I could visit beautiful Europe one day. It makes perfect sense. He wants to visit Europe one day.
It doesn't make sense. He can't know if all of Europe is beautiful. Read my post again...
On April 19 2012 14:30 JiYan wrote: so iirc, none of mlg contestants win any future dreamhack spots? =\
Dreamhack just became an MLG qualifier... hilarious.
Even more funny is that that they just qualifying into another grandiose qualifier.
that will make them quit playing and commit suicide because it's such a hard bracket.
To me it kinda seems like this was MLG's idea and they threw some money at Dreamhack to accept it.
"MLG: Hey let's send the winner of your fine tournament *cough* to our Mighty Fine Event in the America but let's not send any of our top placing players to your fine tournament *cough*".
Advertising themselves and letting Dreamhack in on a small portion of the cake while eating the most of it themselves.
Nice to see. I'm not sure about those seeds though. Yes, it is some kind of guarantee of quality, but still - competition-wise it is better to limit the seeds as much as possible.
On April 19 2012 04:32 Recoil wrote: Nice! I always love when tournament winners get seeded into other tournies because that means they truely deserve it.
Funny most people think that the exact opposite occurs when people are seeded into tournaments. People who are undeserving of seeds get seeds..
Just because i got an A. in Science doesnt mean i Should start at a B+ in history. if u know what i mean
MLG and dreamhack are nemesis, they are not meant to get along!
well at least IPL and MLG still hate each others hopefully
Do we have any official word from DH yet about this ? I read the DH site and don't see anything about this (but their site is badly designed like most ESPORTS sites so perhaps I missed it :D). And the news is just about MLG will use DH as a qualifier. They can do that without even contacting DH staff.
On April 19 2012 16:20 HotShizz wrote: ...what about your rules, if you qualify from a specific region MLG will fly you out from that region, otherwise you only get a travel stipend? Is that no longer the case just for this specific event?
That rule only applies to Players who qualify for Spring Arena #2 via the Invite-Only Online Qualifiers. It does not apply to the Spring Arena #1 Top 4 or the DreamHack Stockholm winner.
Never been a big fan of players being seeded in IMO. Not that I don't feel they deserve it, just feel it's a bit unfair that they don't have to qualify like most others do.
MLG and dreamhack are nemesis, they are not meant to get along!
well at least IPL and MLG still hate each others hopefully
Do we have any official word from DH yet about this ? I read the DH site and don't see anything about this (but their site is badly designed like most ESPORTS sites so perhaps I missed it :D). And the news is just about MLG will use DH as a qualifier. They can do that without even contacting DH staff.
On April 20 2012 00:33 KristofferAG wrote: Never been a big fan of players being seeded in IMO. Not that I don't feel they deserve it, just feel it's a bit unfair that they don't have to qualify like most others do.
It seems harder to win a whole DH tournament than to get a qualification to the Spring Arena through normal means doesn't it?
It requires you to come top 8 of the invite only tournament to get a spot in the 2nd MLG Spring Arena, I would say if you won Dreamhack you are very deserving of a spot.
MLG and dreamhack are nemesis, they are not meant to get along!
well at least IPL and MLG still hate each others hopefully
Do we have any official word from DH yet about this ? I read the DH site and don't see anything about this (but their site is badly designed like most ESPORTS sites so perhaps I missed it :D). And the news is just about MLG will use DH as a qualifier. They can do that without even contacting DH staff.
How is this site "badly designed" http://open.dreamhack.se/ ? I thought it was very easy to navigate.
MLG and dreamhack are nemesis, they are not meant to get along!
well at least IPL and MLG still hate each others hopefully
Do we have any official word from DH yet about this ? I read the DH site and don't see anything about this (but their site is badly designed like most ESPORTS sites so perhaps I missed it :D). And the news is just about MLG will use DH as a qualifier. They can do that without even contacting DH staff.
MLG and dreamhack are nemesis, they are not meant to get along!
well at least IPL and MLG still hate each others hopefully
Do we have any official word from DH yet about this ? I read the DH site and don't see anything about this (but their site is badly designed like most ESPORTS sites so perhaps I missed it :D). And the news is just about MLG will use DH as a qualifier. They can do that without even contacting DH staff.
How is this site "badly designed" http://open.dreamhack.se/ ? I thought it was very easy to navigate.
On April 20 2012 04:20 ToF wrote: Good move MLG, now stop scheduling your stuff over other peoples' events.
You make seem like MLG is INTENTIONALLY scheduling events to conflict with others. There are only so many weekends in a tournament season, conflicts are inevitable.
On April 20 2012 04:20 ToF wrote: Good move MLG, now stop scheduling your stuff over other peoples' events.
You make seem like MLG is INTENTIONALLY scheduling events to conflict with others. There are only so many weekends in a tournament season, conflicts are inevitable.
That is EXACTLY what I'm saying. If it happens once or twice it can be due to accidentally overlooking an event or scheduling difficulties, if it happens all the time, it's a statistical fact.
On April 20 2012 04:20 ToF wrote: Good move MLG, now stop scheduling your stuff over other peoples' events.
You make seem like MLG is INTENTIONALLY scheduling events to conflict with others. There are only so many weekends in a tournament season, conflicts are inevitable.
That is EXACTLY what I'm saying. If it happens once or twice it can be due to accidentally overlooking an event or scheduling difficulties, if it happens all the time, it's a statistical fact.
What a ridiculous statement. MLG is trying to grow the industry, not squash opposition. (maybe eventually, but not yet).
It takes a LOT of operational concern and logistics to run something like this- why would they schedule something during a competing event when it would demonstrably reduce their viewership (thus revenue generation)?
On April 19 2012 07:10 Slasher wrote: CBSi/GameSpot Director of eSports Benito Gonzalez and DreamHack eSports boss Frederik "ponderosa" Nyström will be on Live On Three tonight to discuss all the news regarding the new CBSi deal with TwitchTV, MLG and NASL, and the new collaboration of MLG and DreamHack. Also full previews of MLG/DreamHack, Naniwa's triumph in GSL, and MLG's Adam Apiacella hinting at HotS and BW pros being featured at MLG Anaheim.
I'm not a big fan of cross-seeding between tournaments, because they're tournaments, not leagues.
Cross-seeding this way gives player X a lift in Tournament B just because of how well he did in Tournament A.
If the Tournaments were very isolated in who plays in them, that might be one thing, but the top 30-40 players of SC2 tend to get to all the major tournaments, and getting Seeded in an MLG event because you did well at DreamHack or vise-versa feels unfair to the other players imho, and pro-players have been known to echo my sentiments.
What I'd LOVE to see is the four finalists from each of these tournaments (throw GSL, IPL and NASL into this mix) have a World Championship for SC2 to determine the undisputed heavyweight SC2 champion each year. Now that would be EPIC.
Cross-seeding just looks like two organizations fake hugging each other to get shared audience, and is unfair to the players involved.
On April 20 2012 00:39 andeh wrote: pfft, since when has mlg become the master foreign tournament? Just keep everything separate...
Amen. Remember last season MLG tried this with GSL and it didn't produce great results. Some MLG players who went to GSl expressed that they didn't feel the seeding was a fair trade and that GSL players got the better end of the deal.
Sounds great, though I would like to see a joint tourney online held in the summer that is little to no money given, just to see what the up and coming players in the world look like.
On April 20 2012 04:20 ToF wrote: Good move MLG, now stop scheduling your stuff over other peoples' events.
lol you seem to know nothing about this at all. All this shit is planned so far in advance. You have to book the venue and things can fall apart so lol you.
On April 20 2012 04:20 ToF wrote: Good move MLG, now stop scheduling your stuff over other peoples' events.
lol you seem to know nothing about this at all. All this shit is planned so far in advance. You have to book the venue and things can fall apart so lol you.
Guess it just sucks that a 8 man mini event steals the attention away from a big tournament like Dreamhack with over a hundred players (both korean and foreigners).
This would of been so much better if they didn't collide on the same date.
If MLG also seals the deal with OGN, this will be one hell of a tourney alliance. IPL/Gom will need to get ESL/IEM as soon as they can in order to survive.
On April 20 2012 17:09 Packawana wrote: If MLG also seals the deal with OGN, this will be one hell of a tourney alliance. IPL/Gom will need to get ESL/IEM as soon as they can in order to survive.
GSL this week had commercials for Dreamhack eizo invitational running between Code S matches, so i don't really think they are directly competing against eachother just yet.
On April 20 2012 17:09 Packawana wrote: If MLG also seals the deal with OGN, this will be one hell of a tourney alliance. IPL/Gom will need to get ESL/IEM as soon as they can in order to survive.
GSL this week had commercials for Dreamhack eizo invitational running between Code S matches, so i don't really think they are directly competing against eachother just yet.
A GSL/Dreamhack cooperation would be cool.
And instead of winning a Code-S seed it would be much cooler if the winner or top contenders could win like a month of training in korea or something.
I think it is good with increased cooperation. However, I hope that there are more sides to this that have not yet been disclosed. Otherwise it looks like a bit ad hoc and I´m not sure we really gained anything?
As a viewer we lost one European at the MLG event, unless Koreans fail to win Dreamhack. Dreamhack seems to have gained nothing in particular from this. For MLG it is pretty much the same, perhaps an extra Korean to fly in for the event.
A step in the right direction! I hope one fine day, all major tournaments will work together, pros will be jetting aorund the world and esport will be a truely international sport.
Isn't MLG just paying the winner of DH EIZO Open to come for Spring Arena #2? Doesn't sound much like a collaboration. Is there a seed for DH summer available for winner of Spring Arena?
On April 20 2012 20:46 klogg wrote: Isn't MLG just paying the winner of DH EIZO Open to come for Spring Arena #2? Doesn't sound much like a collaboration. Is there a seed for DH summer available for winner of Spring Arena?
On April 20 2012 20:46 klogg wrote: Isn't MLG just paying the winner of DH EIZO Open to come for Spring Arena #2? Doesn't sound much like a collaboration. Is there a seed for DH summer available for winner of Spring Arena?
On April 20 2012 04:20 ToF wrote: Good move MLG, now stop scheduling your stuff over other peoples' events.
lol you seem to know nothing about this at all. All this shit is planned so far in advance. You have to book the venue and things can fall apart so lol you.
MLG Spring Arena is held in NYC. Last MLG i think they were at Liquids headquarters. I think it will be there this time aswell.
So i don't know about that "book the venue" talk of yours.
Dreamhack however offer 7 FREE HD 720p-1080p streams, meanwhile people can't even watch your "Events" without paying. Just hope DH does not get any stupid ideas from your PPV.
On April 20 2012 04:20 ToF wrote: Good move MLG, now stop scheduling your stuff over other peoples' events.
lol you seem to know nothing about this at all. All this shit is planned so far in advance. You have to book the venue and things can fall apart so lol you.
MLG Spring Arena is held in NYC. Last MLG i think they were at Liquids headquarters. I think it will be there this time aswell.
So i don't know about that "book the venue" talk of yours.
It's basically held in a flat in as skyscraper.
Last I checked, most companies don't have entire skyscraper as their headquarters. This isn't TV, where every corporation ever seen is a fortune 500.
On April 20 2012 04:20 ToF wrote: Good move MLG, now stop scheduling your stuff over other peoples' events.
lol you seem to know nothing about this at all. All this shit is planned so far in advance. You have to book the venue and things can fall apart so lol you.
MLG Spring Arena is held in NYC. Last MLG i think they were at Liquids headquarters. I think it will be there this time aswell.
So i don't know about that "book the venue" talk of yours.
It's basically held in a flat in as skyscraper.
Last I checked, most companies don't have entire skyscraper as their headquarters. This isn't TV, where every corporation ever seen is a fortune 500.
....
Both the winter and spring arena's have been held at MLG HQ in NYC. No Liquid HQ, no random flat in NYC.
As for the PPV, quick thought here. I have thoroughly enjoyed every single event or large tournament, even beyond MLG. So when I see that I have to pay to enjoy what I have already enjoyed on the account that what I am watching "could be better with if a larger budget could be spent" I am extremely disappointed. Because, like I said, I have enjoyed the past nearly two years of SC2 tournaments and do not expect more.
I don't understand the hate on MLG... both events are spectacular, each with something better than the other, give it a rest. PPV is a new experimental idea, but at least you get free vods, unlike GSL.
On April 23 2012 15:15 CakeSauc3 wrote: I don't understand the hate on MLG... both events are spectacular, each with something better than the other, give it a rest. PPV is a new experimental idea, but at least you get free vods, unlike GSL.
MLG organises two of it's new events on days other, big, tournaments are held. MLG introduces PPV while deliviering nothing more than (free) Dreamhack and you guys still talk bullshit about "MLG is trying growing E-Sports"? MLG is having offline events whiteout a live audience? (srsly?).
To me that looks like MLG is trying to milk E-Sports, not like trying to "grow" it and thats why i don't like them. It's entirely possible i'm wrong, but i actaully don't care, i'm sure Sundance "gets it"...
On April 23 2012 15:15 CakeSauc3 wrote: I don't understand the hate on MLG... both events are spectacular, each with something better than the other, give it a rest. PPV is a new experimental idea, but at least you get free vods, unlike GSL.
MLG organises two of it's new events on days other, big, tournaments are held. MLG introduces PPV while deliviering nothing more than (free) Dreamhack and you guys still talk bullshit about "MLG is trying growing E-Sports"? MLG is having offline events whiteout a live audience? (srsly?).
To me that looks like MLG is trying to milk E-Sports, not like trying to "grow" it and thats why i don't like them. It's entirely possible i'm wrong, but i actaully don't care, i'm sure Sundance "gets it"...
I really agree.
Anyway, the more variety the better. Gogo 2012 tournaments.
Oh MLG, I see what you did there. DH provides a free hq stream, twice the prize pool, has bigger following (just look at the thread sizes here on TL). And yet, through this stunt "win DH to qualify for MLG" you are trying to build a notion that MLG is the more prestigious tourney. I applaud your PR, and I am astonished that DH agreed to that.
On April 23 2012 15:15 CakeSauc3 wrote: I don't understand the hate on MLG... both events are spectacular, each with something better than the other, give it a rest. PPV is a new experimental idea, but at least you get free vods, unlike GSL.
MLG organises two of it's new events on days other, big, tournaments are held. MLG introduces PPV while deliviering nothing more than (free) Dreamhack and you guys still talk bullshit about "MLG is trying growing E-Sports"? MLG is having offline events whiteout a live audience? (srsly?).
To me that looks like MLG is trying to milk E-Sports, not like trying to "grow" it and thats why i don't like them. It's entirely possible i'm wrong, but i actaully don't care, i'm sure Sundance "gets it"...
On April 23 2012 20:20 zaii wrote: Milk eSports? rofl They have been tossing millions at this hobby for 10 years.
That. MLG has been around for a long long long long time and they've put in a lot of money into growing their tournaments. What they need to do now is prove to their many investors that they can be profitable. The PPV does this for them and provides them the opportunity to fly players and house them for the events as well as prove to investors (who can provide even more) that they can make money off of an investment into mlg. I don't know about you but that sounds pretty damn great to me.
On April 23 2012 15:15 CakeSauc3 wrote: I don't understand the hate on MLG... both events are spectacular, each with something better than the other, give it a rest. PPV is a new experimental idea, but at least you get free vods, unlike GSL.
MLG organises two of it's new events on days other, big, tournaments are held. MLG introduces PPV while deliviering nothing more than (free) Dreamhack and you guys still talk bullshit about "MLG is trying growing E-Sports"? MLG is having offline events whiteout a live audience? (srsly?).
To me that looks like MLG is trying to milk E-Sports, not like trying to "grow" it and thats why i don't like them. It's entirely possible i'm wrong, but i actaully don't care, i'm sure Sundance "gets it"...
On April 23 2012 20:20 zaii wrote: Milk eSports? rofl They have been tossing millions at this hobby for 10 years.
That. MLG has been around for a long long long long time and they've put in a lot of money into growing their tournaments. What they need to do now is prove to their many investors that they can be profitable. The PPV does this for them and provides them the opportunity to fly players and house them for the events as well as prove to investors (who can provide even more) that they can make money off of an investment into mlg. I don't know about you but that sounds pretty damn great to me.
MLG for like 8 years spent money on console games no one cares about anymore and tried "growing" E-Sports.... And failed, still no one I know cares about console E-Sports. Seriously, just disregard ANYTHING MLG did before SC2 (and LoL) came around, it's not the same business model anymore.. Else you seriously have to wonder.. How retarded have these investors been or how bad at business MLG is to not make a profit from add revenue when their viewership exploded like that? Yes, they had to buy chairs and satellite trucks (or rent in at locations with decent wiring )... But the last 2 hardly make the difference between being profitable or not (in the long run).
Now to the "new" business Model... These Arenas. MLG flies most/basically all players (and casters) from Korea to New York for like... No reason? There is no live audience... How does this make any sense? Seriously, wouldn't it be cheaper (and in a miriad of ways smarter) to just do this stuff directly from Korea? Can't you just rent the GSL (or OGN or whatever) studio and do it from there? That would make sense...
MLG is not trying to grow E-Sport, it's asap trying to make money from it... They had like 9 years of no revenue at all and now, thanks to the growth of E-Sports, which they themselves didn't influence, they have a big enough viewer base to charge for a product others deliver for free... I call that milking...
On April 20 2012 04:20 ToF wrote: Good move MLG, now stop scheduling your stuff over other peoples' events.
lol you seem to know nothing about this at all. All this shit is planned so far in advance. You have to book the venue and things can fall apart so lol you.
MLG Spring Arena is held in NYC. Last MLG i think they were at Liquids headquarters. I think it will be there this time aswell.
So i don't know about that "book the venue" talk of yours.
It's basically held in a flat in as skyscraper.
everything you just said is wrong
mlg held the first arena at their offices, which required a reasonable amount of refurb to be ready for it so i dont know about how much time they had in advance to be sure they do a certain date. this weekend overlapping with dreamhack seemed a bit dickish, next weekend would of been so much better for people.
MLG is not trying to grow E-Sport, it's asap trying to make money from it... They had like 9 years of no revenue at all and now, thanks to the growth of E-Sports, which they themselves didn't influence, they have a big enough viewer base to charge for a product others deliver for free... I call that milking...
While I do agree with you, MLG earning money is still helping with growing esports.
It was a damn good thing that Dreamhack was on the same week with ML...PPV. The MLG system is so unwelcoming to new members of the community. Totally killing e-esports. I wish luck to Thorzain.
On April 23 2012 15:15 CakeSauc3 wrote: I don't understand the hate on MLG... both events are spectacular, each with something better than the other, give it a rest. PPV is a new experimental idea, but at least you get free vods, unlike GSL.
MLG organises two of it's new events on days other, big, tournaments are held. MLG introduces PPV while deliviering nothing more than (free) Dreamhack and you guys still talk bullshit about "MLG is trying growing E-Sports"? MLG is having offline events whiteout a live audience? (srsly?).
To me that looks like MLG is trying to milk E-Sports, not like trying to "grow" it and thats why i don't like them. It's entirely possible i'm wrong, but i actaully don't care, i'm sure Sundance "gets it"...
On April 23 2012 20:20 zaii wrote: Milk eSports? rofl They have been tossing millions at this hobby for 10 years.
That. MLG has been around for a long long long long time and they've put in a lot of money into growing their tournaments. What they need to do now is prove to their many investors that they can be profitable. The PPV does this for them and provides them the opportunity to fly players and house them for the events as well as prove to investors (who can provide even more) that they can make money off of an investment into mlg. I don't know about you but that sounds pretty damn great to me.
MLG for like 8 years spent money on console games no one cares about anymore and tried "growing" E-Sports.... And failed, still no one I know cares about console E-Sports. Seriously, just disregard ANYTHING MLG did before SC2 (and LoL) came around, it's not the same business model anymore.. Else you seriously have to wonder.. How retarded have these investors been or how bad at business MLG is to not make a profit from add revenue when their viewership exploded like that? Yes, they had to buy chairs and satellite trucks (or rent in at locations with decent wiring )... But the last 2 hardly make the difference between being profitable or not (in the long run).
Now to the "new" business Model... These Arenas. MLG flies most/basically all players (and casters) from Korea to New York for like... No reason? There is no live audience... How does this make any sense? Seriously, wouldn't it be cheaper (and in a miriad of ways smarter) to just do this stuff directly from Korea? Can't you just rent the GSL (or OGN or whatever) studio and do it from there? That would make sense...
MLG is not trying to grow E-Sport, it's asap trying to make money from it... They had like 9 years of no revenue at all and now, thanks to the growth of E-Sports, which they themselves didn't influence, they have a big enough viewer base to charge for a product others deliver for free... I call that milking...
I look at these tournaments as something to satisfy the hardcore SC2 fans and make some money for MLG, because you're basically right on all counts. They're objectively worse than the MLG championship events, and there's really no compelling reason for a casual viewer to buy this event when the better ones are free. If it's a model designed to attract everyone it's a bad one, but I don't think it is.
I don't know if this event was even successful at this price point. If you attempt to extrapolate a sales number from twitch viewer counts I don't think this event got made than 5,000 sales. Probably way closer to 4000.
I think what we're going to find out from these arenas is that there is only a small group of people willing to buy PPV events. Had it been $20 I think they would have had similar sales, and despite what everyone was yelling about last time the price of these things is very much inelastic and few if any of the people who said "make it $10" actually bought it.
In my opinion it's irrelevant to SC2 or "ESPORTS" as a whole if MLG want to make money off this small group of diehards. If they're happy buying it and MLG is happy selling it more power to them. MLG wouldn't mind making money for a change, and that small contingent of fans can never get enough SC2, and it's ultimately zero sum in the greater ESPORTS picture and goes nowhere to attract to the casual audience.
MLG spent its money on console games, which is revolved around America gaming culture only. Its sponsors also are random stuff, such as phones (seriously, you think we like phones that much?) and Dr Pepper, while every other organizations' sponsors are computer/tech related (BenQ, Teamspeak, BeyondGaming,....) which are very relevant to PC users. MLG's sponsors are very heavy "American" (who use Xperia except people in America and what, Japan?; or Dr Pepper) while other organizations reach global. IEM, Dreamhack seems to run fine and are expanding, so are lots of Chinese.
MLG organizes its amazing and everything, but on the business side, it's suck. Not to mention this year MLG also cut cost by diverting lots of its business online. Now it's making money PPV from "elite" gaming community "SC2", why doesn't it try PPV with LoL which is far more popular game?
Anyway, I don't have problems with PPV. I only hate when MLG use sponsors and advertisement model as excuses to make PPV tournaments and whine about losing money for sympathy. If they just say "look, normal tournaments are great, but now we will organize some PPV tournaments as a side business model" that's fine by me, not "We need this PPV, esports is doomed"
On April 19 2012 04:32 Recoil wrote: Nice! I always love when tournament winners get seeded into other tournies because that means they truely deserve it.
I think it will just mean another Korean will get a seed, not that it's a bad thing
On April 23 2012 20:20 zaii wrote: MLG Milking eSports? rofl They have been tossing millions at this hobby for 10 years.
They were tossing them at the wrong games thought....
The wrong games that got them on TV, Got them Mainstream sponsors like BiC, Redbull, Dr.Pepper, Hotpockets etc etc. The wrong game that kept MLG alive , While the other PC gaming leagues in North America died out?
O wow springbreak 2 already halway may and then in june another big tournament. How manny ppv events have you guys planned for this spring/summer season?
"Halo is esports thx to mlg."
are you sure this is something to be proud of? Halo is looked down upon alot by fps lovers.
On April 24 2012 00:13 Rassy wrote: O wow springbreak 2 already halway may and then in june another big tournament. How manny ppv events have you guys planned for this spring/summer season?
"Halo is esports thx to mlg."
are you sure this is something to be proud of? Halo is looked down upon alot by fps lovers.
This thread must be filled with younger nerds who have no real-word intelligence. MLG is a company, and companies have to make profits, or they die. To assume, just because MLG charges for services (no, no give me free stuff ... Spoiled brats) that it is not helping the scene shows high levels of ignorance. Production is not free. Get over it. If you can't cough up 10$ to watch something you "love," you might reconsider how much value you put into things.
To see two huge tournaments partner up should garner nothing but positive attention. Are you guys growing eSports by whining about a company's business model? *tumbleweeds roll by* MLG is doing really great stuff, and to see them grow, along with other tournaments, should be a positive indicator that YOUR scene is growing.
Won't be watching Spring Arena 2, as I have no interest in supporting a PPV system, but that's good that he'll likely make it into the Championship now.
On April 24 2012 00:36 skrjabin wrote: This thread must be filled with younger nerds who have no real-word intelligence. MLG is a company, and companies have to make profits, or they die. To assume, just because MLG charges for services (no, no give me free stuff ... Spoiled brats) that it is not helping the scene shows high levels of ignorance. Production is not free. Get over it. If you can't cough up 10$ to watch something you "love," you might reconsider how much value you put into things.
To see two huge tournaments partner up should garner nothing but positive attention. Are you guys growing eSports by whining about a company's business model? *tumbleweeds roll by* MLG is doing really great stuff, and to see them grow, along with other tournaments, should be a positive indicator that YOUR scene is growing.
I value things that come free such as love, friendship, fresh air and pure water. Should I pay for that too since obviously paying is so much better ?
On April 24 2012 00:36 skrjabin wrote: This thread must be filled with younger nerds who have no real-word intelligence. MLG is a company, and companies have to make profits, or they die. To assume, just because MLG charges for services (no, no give me free stuff ... Spoiled brats) that it is not helping the scene shows high levels of ignorance. Production is not free. Get over it. If you can't cough up 10$ to watch something you "love," you might reconsider how much value you put into things.
To see two huge tournaments partner up should garner nothing but positive attention. Are you guys growing eSports by whining about a company's business model? *tumbleweeds roll by* MLG is doing really great stuff, and to see them grow, along with other tournaments, should be a positive indicator that YOUR scene is growing.
I value things that come free such as love, friendship, fresh air and pure water. Should I pay for that too since obviously paying is so much better ?
again, if this is supposed to be a counter to how a business supports itself, you've made a non-argument. If you aren't willing to pay for a service and would rather whine about it, you don't deserve to receive that service.
On April 24 2012 00:13 Rassy wrote: O wow springbreak 2 already halway may and then in june another big tournament. How manny ppv events have you guys planned for this spring/summer season?
"Halo is esports thx to mlg."
are you sure this is something to be proud of? Halo is looked down upon alot by fps lovers.
There is no "fps lover" with a brain that dislikes the earlier Halo games. It's impossible.
MLG are awesome because of how much attention and how many people they bring in into ESPORTS. They're also one of the most important parts to the tournament scene. They want to make money because they want to make their business sustainable and they do it partly through PPV which is good for everyone in the long run. DH is a digital festival with the worlds largest lan, they probably make enough money already.
Looking forward to seeing Master Jane at the next Arena.
On April 24 2012 00:36 skrjabin wrote: This thread must be filled with younger nerds who have no real-word intelligence. MLG is a company, and companies have to make profits, or they die. To assume, just because MLG charges for services (no, no give me free stuff ... Spoiled brats) that it is not helping the scene shows high levels of ignorance. Production is not free. Get over it. If you can't cough up 10$ to watch something you "love," you might reconsider how much value you put into things.
To see two huge tournaments partner up should garner nothing but positive attention. Are you guys growing eSports by whining about a company's business model? *tumbleweeds roll by* MLG is doing really great stuff, and to see them grow, along with other tournaments, should be a positive indicator that YOUR scene is growing.
I value things that come free such as love, friendship, fresh air and pure water. Should I pay for that too since obviously paying is so much better ?
again, if this is supposed to be a counter to how a business supports itself, you've made a non-argument. If you aren't willing to pay for a service and would rather whine about it, you don't deserve to receive that service.
If MLG can sustain this PPV model good for them. However, it's still not justifiable in most peoples eyes (including my own). As their services provide nothing more than other tournament organisers whom provide the same content free of charge. We don't hear an outcry from the CEO of any other tournament organiser that they need to experiment with PPV to satisfy investors. Honestly Sundance is using the cowardly tool of fear mongering to advocate the PPV model. "We need to experiment with this or MLG might go down the shitter".
Even if what he is saying regarding PPV is true. Then he has made some serious miss calculations on the business side, which other tournament organisers have managed to avoid apparently.
In conclusion, if MLG can sustain this model. Good for them, good for E-sports. But if they fail and MLG does indeed downsize or cease to exist entirely. That's good for e-sports too as it increases revenue for MLG's competitors. Thus consolidating the scene into a handful of large event holders who eill have more money to play with. So it's a win-win situation in my eyes.
Can't keep giving out free stuff forever. The money earned from viewing their ads and supporting their sponsors once in a while (how many keyboards can you really buy?) so far sounds like peanuts compared to what most companies need to earn to impress sponsors/investors and become self sustaining. They need to grow that money.
That said, glad to hear that Dreamhack and MLG are working together.
On April 24 2012 00:36 skrjabin wrote: This thread must be filled with younger nerds who have no real-word intelligence. MLG is a company, and companies have to make profits, or they die. To assume, just because MLG charges for services (no, no give me free stuff ... Spoiled brats) that it is not helping the scene shows high levels of ignorance. Production is not free. Get over it. If you can't cough up 10$ to watch something you "love," you might reconsider how much value you put into things.
To see two huge tournaments partner up should garner nothing but positive attention. Are you guys growing eSports by whining about a company's business model? *tumbleweeds roll by* MLG is doing really great stuff, and to see them grow, along with other tournaments, should be a positive indicator that YOUR scene is growing.
I value things that come free such as love, friendship, fresh air and pure water. Should I pay for that too since obviously paying is so much better ?
again, if this is supposed to be a counter to how a business supports itself, you've made a non-argument. If you aren't willing to pay for a service and would rather whine about it, you don't deserve to receive that service.
If MLG can sustain this PPV model good for them. However, it's still not justifiable in most peoples eyes (including my own). As their services provide nothing more than other tournament organisers whom provide the same content free of charge. We don't hear an outcry from the CEO of any other tournament organiser that they need to experiment with PPV to satisfy investors. Honestly Sundance is using the cowardly tool of fear mongering to advocate the PPV model. "We need to experiment with this or MLG might go down the shitter".
Even if what he is saying regarding PPV is true. Then he has made some serious miss calculations on the business side, which other tournament organisers have managed to avoid apparently.
In conclusion, if MLG can sustain this model. Good for them, good for E-sports. But if they fail and MLG does indeed downsize or cease to exist entirely. That's good for e-sports too as it increases revenue for MLG's competitors. Thus consolidating the scene into a handful of large event holders who eill have more money to play with. So it's a win-win situation in my eyes.
If MLG fails, that is NOT good for eSports. (win, win? ... lol) Honestly, this is another portrayal of high ignorance. A major company in the industry failing means that the legitimacy of the entire scene will be put into question. We want money and investors in eSports. If one of the giants falls because it's consumer base can't get their moms to cough up 10$, then who would invest in eSport? At the end of the day, those who are so underground, and want eSport to remain that way will hurt the very thing they love. If we want it to grow, it has to be treated as a business, which requires investors and money. MLG, and other tournaments like it, are carving a new path that has not been figured out, yet and honestly, MLG is taking the path towards expansion to the masses, which requires money and exposure. To get major investors (like CBSi) into the sport, you have to prove that you are a worthwhile risk that has RETURN ON INVESTMENT ($$). Quite frankly, it seems MLG has it's eyes on bigger goals than just big LANS; namely, pushing it into the realm of legitimacy.
Do you understand why these arenas are PPV? They are flying out all of their competitors to the Arena, paying their expenses. These are expenses that the teams would otherwise have to cover. This puts more money into the pockets of organisations who want to support their players and their brand. Fly 20 people (no exact number, sorry) over from Korea, look at the cost, then say, "Yeah, would be a good idea to make this event free." The arenas might not prove to be sustainable, but to bitch about it over and over and over, is spitting on the investment that MLG is making on behalf of eSports, which benefits all the whiny brats on this forum in spite of themselves. NASL is free, but I gave them 20$. I bought both arena passes so far and will continue to do so. Why? Because I have enough self control to say, "Ok buy 2 coffees this week, or support something that I love?" When did everyone get so spoiled as to expect a free lunch everywhere they go?
On April 24 2012 00:36 skrjabin wrote: This thread must be filled with younger nerds who have no real-word intelligence. MLG is a company, and companies have to make profits, or they die. To assume, just because MLG charges for services (no, no give me free stuff ... Spoiled brats) that it is not helping the scene shows high levels of ignorance. Production is not free. Get over it. If you can't cough up 10$ to watch something you "love," you might reconsider how much value you put into things.
To see two huge tournaments partner up should garner nothing but positive attention. Are you guys growing eSports by whining about a company's business model? *tumbleweeds roll by* MLG is doing really great stuff, and to see them grow, along with other tournaments, should be a positive indicator that YOUR scene is growing.
I value things that come free such as love, friendship, fresh air and pure water. Should I pay for that too since obviously paying is so much better ?
again, if this is supposed to be a counter to how a business supports itself, you've made a non-argument. If you aren't willing to pay for a service and would rather whine about it, you don't deserve to receive that service.
If MLG can sustain this PPV model good for them. However, it's still not justifiable in most peoples eyes (including my own). As their services provide nothing more than other tournament organisers whom provide the same content free of charge. We don't hear an outcry from the CEO of any other tournament organiser that they need to experiment with PPV to satisfy investors. Honestly Sundance is using the cowardly tool of fear mongering to advocate the PPV model. "We need to experiment with this or MLG might go down the shitter".
Even if what he is saying regarding PPV is true. Then he has made some serious miss calculations on the business side, which other tournament organisers have managed to avoid apparently.
In conclusion, if MLG can sustain this model. Good for them, good for E-sports. But if they fail and MLG does indeed downsize or cease to exist entirely. That's good for e-sports too as it increases revenue for MLG's competitors. Thus consolidating the scene into a handful of large event holders who eill have more money to play with. So it's a win-win situation in my eyes.
If MLG fails, that is NOT good for eSports. (win, win? ... lol) Honestly, this is another portrayal of high ignorance. A major company in the industry failing means that the legitimacy of the entire scene will be put into question. We want money and investors in eSports. If one of the giants falls because it's consumer base can't get their moms to cough up 10$, then who would invest in eSport? At the end of the day, those who are so underground, and want eSport to remain that way will hurt the very thing they love. If we want it to grow, it has to be treated as a business, which requires investors and money. MLG, and other tournaments like it, are carving a new path that has not been figured out, yet and honestly, MLG is taking the path towards expansion to the masses, which requires money and exposure. To get major investors (like CBSi) into the sport, you have to prove that you are a worthwhile risk that has RETURN ON INVESTMENT ($$). Quite frankly, it seems MLG has it's eyes on bigger goals than just big LANS; namely, pushing it into the realm of legitimacy.
Do you understand why these arenas are PPV? They are flying out all of their competitors to the Arena, paying their expenses. These are expenses that the teams would otherwise have to cover. This puts more money into the pockets of organisations who want to support their players and their brand. Fly 20 people (no exact number, sorry) over from Korea, look at the cost, then say, "Yeah, would be a good idea to make this event free." The arenas might not prove to be sustainable, but to bitch about it over and over and over, is spitting on the investment that MLG is making on behalf of eSports, which benefits all the whiny brats on this forum in spite of themselves. NASL is free, but I gave them 20$. I bought both arena passes so far and will continue to do so. Why? Because I have enough self control to say, "Ok buy 2 coffees this week, or support something that I love?" When did everyone get so spoiled as to expect a free lunch everywhere they go?
The only thing you have picked up about sports and finance are the words from Sundance aren't you? My god, sports cant be treated as a regular business. If you do so, you will fail. It has been proven over and over all over the world and it's mind blowing what some people in esports are talking about.
MLG is sustaining there own business right now, nothing wrong with that but they are not expanding or growing because they cant (at least not with SC2). At the moment they are stuck with their audience and with there business model. You cant grow when people who hardly know what SC2 is cant watch it without paying, so who will pay to watch it? Right, hardcore SC2 fans and no one else and those are already watching it so this has to work for MLG.
PPV will not help esports (Sc2) grow, it just wont. It will keep it alive if it's really that bad but just stop with that growing nonsense.
On April 24 2012 00:36 skrjabin wrote: This thread must be filled with younger nerds who have no real-word intelligence. MLG is a company, and companies have to make profits, or they die. To assume, just because MLG charges for services (no, no give me free stuff ... Spoiled brats) that it is not helping the scene shows high levels of ignorance. Production is not free. Get over it. If you can't cough up 10$ to watch something you "love," you might reconsider how much value you put into things.
To see two huge tournaments partner up should garner nothing but positive attention. Are you guys growing eSports by whining about a company's business model? *tumbleweeds roll by* MLG is doing really great stuff, and to see them grow, along with other tournaments, should be a positive indicator that YOUR scene is growing.
I value things that come free such as love, friendship, fresh air and pure water. Should I pay for that too since obviously paying is so much better ?
again, if this is supposed to be a counter to how a business supports itself, you've made a non-argument. If you aren't willing to pay for a service and would rather whine about it, you don't deserve to receive that service.
If MLG can sustain this PPV model good for them. However, it's still not justifiable in most peoples eyes (including my own). As their services provide nothing more than other tournament organisers whom provide the same content free of charge. We don't hear an outcry from the CEO of any other tournament organiser that they need to experiment with PPV to satisfy investors. Honestly Sundance is using the cowardly tool of fear mongering to advocate the PPV model. "We need to experiment with this or MLG might go down the shitter".
Even if what he is saying regarding PPV is true. Then he has made some serious miss calculations on the business side, which other tournament organisers have managed to avoid apparently.
In conclusion, if MLG can sustain this model. Good for them, good for E-sports. But if they fail and MLG does indeed downsize or cease to exist entirely. That's good for e-sports too as it increases revenue for MLG's competitors. Thus consolidating the scene into a handful of large event holders who eill have more money to play with. So it's a win-win situation in my eyes.
If MLG fails, that is NOT good for eSports. (win, win? ... lol) Honestly, this is another portrayal of high ignorance. A major company in the industry failing means that the legitimacy of the entire scene will be put into question. We want money and investors in eSports. If one of the giants falls because it's consumer base can't get their moms to cough up 10$, then who would invest in eSport? At the end of the day, those who are so underground, and want eSport to remain that way will hurt the very thing they love. If we want it to grow, it has to be treated as a business, which requires investors and money. MLG, and other tournaments like it, are carving a new path that has not been figured out, yet and honestly, MLG is taking the path towards expansion to the masses, which requires money and exposure. To get major investors (like CBSi) into the sport, you have to prove that you are a worthwhile risk that has RETURN ON INVESTMENT ($$). Quite frankly, it seems MLG has it's eyes on bigger goals than just big LANS; namely, pushing it into the realm of legitimacy.
Do you understand why these arenas are PPV? They are flying out all of their competitors to the Arena, paying their expenses. These are expenses that the teams would otherwise have to cover. This puts more money into the pockets of organisations who want to support their players and their brand. Fly 20 people (no exact number, sorry) over from Korea, look at the cost, then say, "Yeah, would be a good idea to make this event free." The arenas might not prove to be sustainable, but to bitch about it over and over and over, is spitting on the investment that MLG is making on behalf of eSports, which benefits all the whiny brats on this forum in spite of themselves. NASL is free, but I gave them 20$. I bought both arena passes so far and will continue to do so. Why? Because I have enough self control to say, "Ok buy 2 coffees this week, or support something that I love?" When did everyone get so spoiled as to expect a free lunch everywhere they go?
The only thing you have picked up about sports and finance are the words from Sundance aren't you? My god, sports cant be treated as a regular business. If you do so, you will fail. It has been proven over and over all over the world and it's mind blowing what some people in esports are talking about.
MLG is sustaining there own business right now, nothing wrong with that but they are not expanding or growing because they cant (at least not with SC2). At the moment they are stuck with their audience and with there business model. You cant grow when people who hardly know what SC2 is cant watch it without paying, so who will pay to watch it? Right, hardcore SC2 fans and no one else and those are already watching it so this has to work for MLG.
PPV will not help esports (Sc2) grow, it just wont. It will keep it alive if it's really that bad but just stop with that growing nonsense.
Thank you for countering ... any of the above points. /lol Can't teach a fool new tricks (or basic economics)
Growth of a business requires, among other things, risk, innovation and capital. No one else is doing what they're doing, and they are profiting from it and forging powerful relationships because of it. *insert benign statement saying "See, you said business, MLG is a business, that doesn't help the scene!" What is MLG's business again?
hmmm
Oh, yeah ... eSport.
The other MLG events are still free to watch. Why doesn't anyone see that? Still free guys. The PPV events are expensive side events that wouldn't exist without PPV and we are seeing incredible things come from it. (MKP vs DRG 3x finals?! ... sick storyline ... for those who aren't too cheap to try something different) Seeing DRG cry after beating MKP for the first time in the finals was amazing! A storyline that never would've existed otherwise. My god, it's 2 events that were PPV.
On April 24 2012 00:36 skrjabin wrote: This thread must be filled with younger nerds who have no real-word intelligence. MLG is a company, and companies have to make profits, or they die. To assume, just because MLG charges for services (no, no give me free stuff ... Spoiled brats) that it is not helping the scene shows high levels of ignorance. Production is not free. Get over it. If you can't cough up 10$ to watch something you "love," you might reconsider how much value you put into things.
To see two huge tournaments partner up should garner nothing but positive attention. Are you guys growing eSports by whining about a company's business model? *tumbleweeds roll by* MLG is doing really great stuff, and to see them grow, along with other tournaments, should be a positive indicator that YOUR scene is growing.
I value things that come free such as love, friendship, fresh air and pure water. Should I pay for that too since obviously paying is so much better ?
Funny thing is that you don't realize that none of these "come free", none of these.
On April 24 2012 00:36 skrjabin wrote: This thread must be filled with younger nerds who have no real-word intelligence. MLG is a company, and companies have to make profits, or they die. To assume, just because MLG charges for services (no, no give me free stuff ... Spoiled brats) that it is not helping the scene shows high levels of ignorance. Production is not free. Get over it. If you can't cough up 10$ to watch something you "love," you might reconsider how much value you put into things.
To see two huge tournaments partner up should garner nothing but positive attention. Are you guys growing eSports by whining about a company's business model? *tumbleweeds roll by* MLG is doing really great stuff, and to see them grow, along with other tournaments, should be a positive indicator that YOUR scene is growing.
Just becuase people dont got the same oppinion as yours doesnt make them younger nerds. MLG is a company and there goal in life is to make money. And thats my hole problem. This scene isnt big enough to support pure capitalisme. Its just isnt.
MLG arnt growing the sc2 scene. You know what would happend if MLG was the only sc2 tournament? The same thing that happend to the halo scene. Well there isnt much of a scene today but back in the day it was growing then came MLG and today well what a joke.
Im strongly against MLG the faster they fail and go bankrupt the better it is for the sc2 community. Then we can concentrate on growing sc2 instead of ripping of the few fans we got.
Look at Dreamhack thats how you grow an Esport.
The second thing I got to add is they are basically making money of the players hard work. What salery did Huk make for all his hard work this weekend? Nothing and at the same time Sundance is counting his PPV money. Discusting
On April 24 2012 00:36 skrjabin wrote: This thread must be filled with younger nerds who have no real-word intelligence. MLG is a company, and companies have to make profits, or they die. To assume, just because MLG charges for services (no, no give me free stuff ... Spoiled brats) that it is not helping the scene shows high levels of ignorance. Production is not free. Get over it. If you can't cough up 10$ to watch something you "love," you might reconsider how much value you put into things.
To see two huge tournaments partner up should garner nothing but positive attention. Are you guys growing eSports by whining about a company's business model? *tumbleweeds roll by* MLG is doing really great stuff, and to see them grow, along with other tournaments, should be a positive indicator that YOUR scene is growing.
Just becuase people dont got the same oppinion as yours doesnt make them younger nerds. MLG is a company and there goal in life is to make money. And thats my hole problem. This scene isnt big enough to support pure capitalisme. Its just isnt.
This is very much true, a growing scene should try to get people on board, not scare them away with PPV. Look at football (soccer for you americans) in europe- it took (at least here in continental europe) a LONG time before they got people to pay for football, which is the most popular sport here, to an extend that is orders of magnitude larger than SC2.
By keeping free options, you'll get more people on board, especially for a complicated game like SC2. It is already clear that there are quite a few people who play little, but like to watch. However, since the game is not super-easy to comprehend at first sight, you need a while to get 'into' it, and the prospect of having to pay this isn't good for the sport.
Keep a free stream available, and let the sport grow more so it can truly support a PPV model.
On April 24 2012 00:36 skrjabin wrote: This thread must be filled with younger nerds who have no real-word intelligence. MLG is a company, and companies have to make profits, or they die. To assume, just because MLG charges for services (no, no give me free stuff ... Spoiled brats) that it is not helping the scene shows high levels of ignorance. Production is not free. Get over it. If you can't cough up 10$ to watch something you "love," you might reconsider how much value you put into things.
To see two huge tournaments partner up should garner nothing but positive attention. Are you guys growing eSports by whining about a company's business model? *tumbleweeds roll by* MLG is doing really great stuff, and to see them grow, along with other tournaments, should be a positive indicator that YOUR scene is growing.
MLG arnt growing the sc2 scene. You know what would happend if MLG was the only sc2 tournament? The same thing that happend to the halo scene. Well there isnt much of a scene today but back in the day it was growing then came MLG and today well what a joke.
i once again have to defend the halo scene: first: without MLG there wouldnt be such a thing called "halo scene", you could compare it this way: what TL is to SC, that is MLG to halo. the halo scene actually only grew cuz of MLG! for a whole 7 or 8 years!
and the what happend to the halo scene isnt the mistake of MLG, its the mistake of bungie. imagine sc: heart of the swarm was total crap and nobody would play it after 3 months, would it be MLGs fault as well if nobody was intrested?. thats what happend with halo: reach. we can only hope h4 will be better.
Out of interest: So if the old halo was that good.. Why did the scene (or MLG?) switch to Reach?
Iirc CS proscene stayed on 1.6 instead of jumping to source... Iirc Quake 3/live also survived its succesors for a long time?
Why didn't Halo?... I only played Halo 2 single player an honestly tought it was "decent for one playthru in coop" and that was it.. But i'm not really a FPS fan so... Why?
On April 24 2012 00:36 skrjabin wrote: This thread must be filled with younger nerds who have no real-word intelligence. MLG is a company, and companies have to make profits, or they die. To assume, just because MLG charges for services (no, no give me free stuff ... Spoiled brats) that it is not helping the scene shows high levels of ignorance. Production is not free. Get over it. If you can't cough up 10$ to watch something you "love," you might reconsider how much value you put into things.
To see two huge tournaments partner up should garner nothing but positive attention. Are you guys growing eSports by whining about a company's business model? *tumbleweeds roll by* MLG is doing really great stuff, and to see them grow, along with other tournaments, should be a positive indicator that YOUR scene is growing.
Just becuase people dont got the same oppinion as yours doesnt make them younger nerds. MLG is a company and there goal in life is to make money. And thats my hole problem. This scene isnt big enough to support pure capitalisme. Its just isnt.
MLG arnt growing the sc2 scene. You know what would happend if MLG was the only sc2 tournament? The same thing that happend to the halo scene. Well there isnt much of a scene today but back in the day it was growing then came MLG and today well what a joke.
Im strongly against MLG the faster they fail and go bankrupt the better it is for the sc2 community. Then we can concentrate on growing sc2 instead of ripping of the few fans we got.
Look at Dreamhack thats how you grow an Esport.
The second thing I got to add is they are basically making money of the players hard work. What salery did Huk make for all his hard work this weekend? Nothing and at the same time Sundance is counting his PPV money. Discusting
Checking spelling would make your opinion much more respected. Most browsers today have a built in spell check for you.
Also, MLG going bankrupt would probably be one of the worst things that could happen. Losing that huge of a player in the scene will scare away sponsors and it would work against legitimizing the scene.
In response to your last part, yes the players work their asses off but so does the MLG staff. Running an event like an MLG is a huge task and it takes a lot of work along with them providing the opportunity for the players to make a living doing what they do. Discounting the work that they put into events just seems kind of ridiculous.
The amount of times "there, their, and they're" are used incorrectly when people are trying to sound smart and "teach basic economics" is repulsive. Please stop, it's hurting my brain -.-
As I'm reading the comments i feel MLG and DH are polar opposites. Can they really cooperate together or are they too different from each other? MLG is very corporate managing their business as suits while DH just seems to have a blast and promoting e-sports from a very different angle.
On April 24 2012 08:11 cmcaneff5502 wrote: The amount of times "there, their, and they're" are used incorrectly when people are trying to sound smart and "teach basic economics" is repulsive. Please stop, it's hurting my brain -.-
Economics and writing are two very unrelated subjects and one can be good at one of those while sucking at the other, doesn't mean anything, in fact, writing properly is one of the things least related to being "smart".Also, TL is frequented by people from all over the world, it's naive (and "it hurts my brain") to expect them to speak their 2nd or 3rd language as good as a native, even if they had proper education, people place value in different things, some people care about impecable writing, others don't give a shit, I ,for one, think its mostly a waste of time compared to other available activities.
On April 24 2012 00:36 skrjabin wrote: This thread must be filled with younger nerds who have no real-word intelligence. MLG is a company, and companies have to make profits, or they die. To assume, just because MLG charges for services (no, no give me free stuff ... Spoiled brats) that it is not helping the scene shows high levels of ignorance. Production is not free. Get over it. If you can't cough up 10$ to watch something you "love," you might reconsider how much value you put into things.
To see two huge tournaments partner up should garner nothing but positive attention. Are you guys growing eSports by whining about a company's business model? *tumbleweeds roll by* MLG is doing really great stuff, and to see them grow, along with other tournaments, should be a positive indicator that YOUR scene is growing.
Just becuase people dont got the same oppinion as yours doesnt make them younger nerds. MLG is a company and there goal in life is to make money. And thats my hole problem. This scene isnt big enough to support pure capitalisme. Its just isnt.
MLG arnt growing the sc2 scene. You know what would happend if MLG was the only sc2 tournament? The same thing that happend to the halo scene. Well there isnt much of a scene today but back in the day it was growing then came MLG and today well what a joke.
Im strongly against MLG the faster they fail and go bankrupt the better it is for the sc2 community. Then we can concentrate on growing sc2 instead of ripping of the few fans we got.
Look at Dreamhack thats how you grow an Esport.
The second thing I got to add is they are basically making money of the players hard work. What salery did Huk make for all his hard work this weekend? Nothing and at the same time Sundance is counting his PPV money. Discusting
What? ... I assume english is not your first language, so I will make no derisive comments regarding the spelling, but, my friend, Dreamhack and other LANS are businesses, too Dreamhack has profit margins just like any other business and if they don't handle them intelligently, they will surely fail. Dreamhack charges for day passes and also has a goal of making money. ex...
Prices Table Seat: SEK 850 Day Ticket: SEK 100 Event Ticket: SEK 450 (Even charging by the seat! Gasp! Damn capitalist pigs!!!! In fact, 850 SEK is equivalent to about 125 USD. For a comparable table seat at an MLG, I believe is 70 USD, much less expensive)
If they didn't make money, they wouldn't do it!!! Do you have any (any) idea how much work goes into an event like this? They have paid staffers, paid casters, paid custodians etc ...
This whole notion of free content is such astounding BS. And for everyone saying "our community is not ready, we can't sustain this!" How would you know? Honestly, how would you know? By all accounts, the whole PPV thing is actually doing quite well for them ... sustaining.
On April 24 2012 00:36 skrjabin wrote: This thread must be filled with younger nerds who have no real-word intelligence. MLG is a company, and companies have to make profits, or they die. To assume, just because MLG charges for services (no, no give me free stuff ... Spoiled brats) that it is not helping the scene shows high levels of ignorance. Production is not free. Get over it. If you can't cough up 10$ to watch something you "love," you might reconsider how much value you put into things.
To see two huge tournaments partner up should garner nothing but positive attention. Are you guys growing eSports by whining about a company's business model? *tumbleweeds roll by* MLG is doing really great stuff, and to see them grow, along with other tournaments, should be a positive indicator that YOUR scene is growing.
Just becuase people dont got the same oppinion as yours doesnt make them younger nerds. MLG is a company and there goal in life is to make money. And thats my hole problem. This scene isnt big enough to support pure capitalisme. Its just isnt.
MLG arnt growing the sc2 scene. You know what would happend if MLG was the only sc2 tournament? The same thing that happend to the halo scene. Well there isnt much of a scene today but back in the day it was growing then came MLG and today well what a joke.
Im strongly against MLG the faster they fail and go bankrupt the better it is for the sc2 community. Then we can concentrate on growing sc2 instead of ripping of the few fans we got.
Look at Dreamhack thats how you grow an Esport.
The second thing I got to add is they are basically making money of the players hard work. What salery did Huk make for all his hard work this weekend? Nothing and at the same time Sundance is counting his PPV money. Discusting
Checking spelling would make your opinion much more respected. Most browsers today have a built in spell check for you.
Also, MLG going bankrupt would probably be one of the worst things that could happen. Losing that huge of a player in the scene will scare away sponsors and it would work against legitimizing the scene.
In response to your last part, yes the players work their asses off but so does the MLG staff. Running an event like an MLG is a huge task and it takes a lot of work along with them providing the opportunity for the players to make a living doing what they do. Discounting the work that they put into events just seems kind of ridiculous.
You dont see a problem with that?? Most of the players dont get payed but the staff and commentators do? Again what a joke.
And no if MLG went bankrupt we could actually grow the sc2 scene. Dreamhack and IPL would take over and introduce sc2 to new fans. And thats what we need to grow.
In the mean time we can just wait and see and hope MLG dont milk the fans and the players to much.
On April 24 2012 00:36 skrjabin wrote: This thread must be filled with younger nerds who have no real-word intelligence. MLG is a company, and companies have to make profits, or they die. To assume, just because MLG charges for services (no, no give me free stuff ... Spoiled brats) that it is not helping the scene shows high levels of ignorance. Production is not free. Get over it. If you can't cough up 10$ to watch something you "love," you might reconsider how much value you put into things.
To see two huge tournaments partner up should garner nothing but positive attention. Are you guys growing eSports by whining about a company's business model? *tumbleweeds roll by* MLG is doing really great stuff, and to see them grow, along with other tournaments, should be a positive indicator that YOUR scene is growing.
Just becuase people dont got the same oppinion as yours doesnt make them younger nerds. MLG is a company and there goal in life is to make money. And thats my hole problem. This scene isnt big enough to support pure capitalisme. Its just isnt.
MLG arnt growing the sc2 scene. You know what would happend if MLG was the only sc2 tournament? The same thing that happend to the halo scene. Well there isnt much of a scene today but back in the day it was growing then came MLG and today well what a joke.
Im strongly against MLG the faster they fail and go bankrupt the better it is for the sc2 community. Then we can concentrate on growing sc2 instead of ripping of the few fans we got.
Look at Dreamhack thats how you grow an Esport.
The second thing I got to add is they are basically making money of the players hard work. What salery did Huk make for all his hard work this weekend? Nothing and at the same time Sundance is counting his PPV money. Discusting
Checking spelling would make your opinion much more respected. Most browsers today have a built in spell check for you.
Also, MLG going bankrupt would probably be one of the worst things that could happen. Losing that huge of a player in the scene will scare away sponsors and it would work against legitimizing the scene.
In response to your last part, yes the players work their asses off but so does the MLG staff. Running an event like an MLG is a huge task and it takes a lot of work along with them providing the opportunity for the players to make a living doing what they do. Discounting the work that they put into events just seems kind of ridiculous.
You dont see a problem with that?? Most of the players dont get payed but the staff and commentators do? Again what a joke.
And no if MLG went bankrupt we could actually grow the sc2 scene. Dreamhack and IPL would take over and introduce sc2 to new fans. And thats what we need to grow.
In the mean time we can just wait and see and hope MLG dont milk the fans and the players to much.
I just.... don't understand what your point is. Every tournament pays the staff and commentators and the players have to earn their pay by winning that isn't really exclusive to MLG.
MLG is one of the iconic tournaments of the sc2 scene right now the arenas are just a part of that and the main events still attract a ton of attention. Just because MLG is here doesn't mean that Dreamhack and IPL can't help introduce more people to the game. MLG does the same thing with their main events.
With their arenas they can offer more and more for the fans and the community. They're leading the way into legitimizing eSports.
It isn't the responsibility of the tournament to pay the players, it's the team. Look at any sport, the NHL/NFL/NBA/etc does not pay the players to participate in the tournament..
The bottom line, it seems, is that people are really pissed that they are no longer being shoveled hours and hours and hours (and hours, and hours, and days, and weeks) of free content. But actually, they still are, with the exception of these two events, which would simply not have happened without PPV.
On April 24 2012 00:36 skrjabin wrote: This thread must be filled with younger nerds who have no real-word intelligence. MLG is a company, and companies have to make profits, or they die. To assume, just because MLG charges for services (no, no give me free stuff ... Spoiled brats) that it is not helping the scene shows high levels of ignorance. Production is not free. Get over it. If you can't cough up 10$ to watch something you "love," you might reconsider how much value you put into things.
To see two huge tournaments partner up should garner nothing but positive attention. Are you guys growing eSports by whining about a company's business model? *tumbleweeds roll by* MLG is doing really great stuff, and to see them grow, along with other tournaments, should be a positive indicator that YOUR scene is growing.
MLG arnt growing the sc2 scene. You know what would happend if MLG was the only sc2 tournament? The same thing that happend to the halo scene. Well there isnt much of a scene today but back in the day it was growing then came MLG and today well what a joke.
i once again have to defend the halo scene: first: without MLG there wouldnt be such a thing called "halo scene", you could compare it this way: what TL is to SC, that is MLG to halo. the halo scene actually only grew cuz of MLG! for a whole 7 or 8 years!
and the what happend to the halo scene isnt the mistake of MLG, its the mistake of bungie. imagine sc: heart of the swarm was total crap and nobody would play it after 3 months, would it be MLGs fault as well if nobody was intrested?. thats what happend with halo: reach. we can only hope h4 will be better.
Out of interest: So if the old halo was that good.. Why did the scene (or MLG?) switch to Reach?
Iirc CS proscene stayed on 1.6 instead of jumping to source... Iirc Quake 3/live also survived its succesors for a long time?
Why didn't Halo?... I only played Halo 2 single player an honestly tought it was "decent for one playthru in coop" and that was it.. But i'm not really a FPS fan so... Why?
well; there where a lot of people who didnt want to change the title. a lot of people actually say halo:CE > halo 2 > halo 3 > halo reach (in aspects of how well suited they are for esports)
there are some reasons why MLG changed to the new games: look how many people play halo 3 compared to halo reach, if you go online there are about 10-20k people playing h3 at a given time. reach is faaaaaar more. from time to time i play a game or two of some old halo... i mean look at the grafics lol.
compare :-)
CE: Reach:
and just if anyone is intrested: the best halo motage around there if you ask me of the MLG national champion team str8 rippin
also as we already mentioned MLG is a company that needs to make money. and its always easier to go with the newest title, the one with the most players.
it would have actually killed the halo comunity if it had split up between halo 2 / 3 and reach. (i know there are some people still playing CE/2/3 but thats a minority)
I would bet Microsoft would have some influence on which title was used? I have no proof of that, but it would seem a company that large would have some say, or pull, in a situation like this.
darkcloud8282 Canada. April 24 2012 10:44. Posts 524
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it isn't the responsibility of the tournament to pay the players, it's the team. Look at any sport, the NHL/NFL/NBA/etc does not pay the players to participate in the tournament..
Yes it is, but if you look at for example the championsleague, then you will see that the majority or at least a huge part of the revenu of that league goes towards the teams participating, who in turn use it to pay players salerys amongst other things. In most sports, the top players as a group do earn more then the organisers (correct me if am wrong btw) Sure tournaments make alot of monney for themself also, to pay staff and make a profit but the players make alot as well. It somehow feels to me (though i dont know the exact figures off course, this is just an impression i get) that in sc tournament organisers and their staff, as well as casters make considerably more monney as a group then then the top players get as a group. This mostly goes for mlg btw, not for all the tournaments wich barely break even. Dont think this is a healthy situation in the long run
On April 24 2012 23:12 Rassy wrote: darkcloud8282 Canada. April 24 2012 10:44. Posts 524
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it isn't the responsibility of the tournament to pay the players, it's the team. Look at any sport, the NHL/NFL/NBA/etc does not pay the players to participate in the tournament..
Yes it is, but if you look at for example the championsleague, then you will see that the majority or at least a huge part of the revenu of that league goes towards the teams participating, who in turn use it to pay players salerys amongst other things. In most sports, the top players as a group do earn more then the organisers (correct me if am wrong btw) Sure tournaments make alot of monney for themself also, to pay staff and make a profit but the players make alot as well. It somehow feels to me (though i dont know the exact figures off course, this is just an impression i get) that in sc tournament organisers and their staff, as well as casters make considerably more monney as a group then then the top players get as a group. This mostly goes for mlg btw, not for all the tournaments wich barely break even. Dont think this is a healthy situation in the long run
I'm still not sure the player pay is relevant in this argument. Let me qualify that by saying that I want players to make tons of money! It's great for the scene, but I think choosing to be a progamer, like a poker player, has the inherent risk of "If I don't win, I won't make a lot." Unfortunate as it may be, it's still the understanding I assume one come to grips with when you choose this lifestyle. It seems volatile.
But more to the point, with regards to the PPV, MLG is basically giving teams/organizations thousands of dollars (by paying all expenses) to expose their players and brands. What the teams do with that money, well, we don't know, and frankly, it's not our business. We can hope the players get some of it, but the point is, demonizing MLG for this PPV is a false battle to fight simply because they are giving so much money to the teams just to make this happen. Again, can only hope the players receive some of this money.
On April 19 2012 14:30 JiYan wrote: so iirc, none of mlg contestants win any future dreamhack spots? =\
Dreamhack just became an MLG qualifier... hilarious.
Yeah i find this kinda f#cked up too.
I agree with you guys. And thats not a collaboration. Sorry, but i am seeing only one side of action. mlg grabs a hero for his own championship, thats all. i am not seeing anymore funky colaboration. When I red the headline of this thread i was really interested of all the posibillities there are for an interaction of all the different tournaments and leauges. I am all excited of the develop- ment of Starcraft 2 globally. The intercultural interactions in most of this part but also how the different companies are building up their business based on their ethics. MLG gets a good player for their show and I guess will also be mentioned when the winner gets his prize (did it?). So extending DH just with a qualifiing spot for MLG is not really a collaboration as just a small circumstance for MLG.
I like to see some enthusiasm from the guys that have the ressources and big foot already in that scene. The interaction between tournaments is an unexplored field and so many things could be done interessting. What about an interaction live for the players between different tournaments at the same time. E.g. playing against each other. Or setting up a continental / global point system. Sky is the limit.
Personally, i hope that DH will not have any so called "colaboration" with MLG that let it look like a peasant. Specially because DH is so much more than MLG considering just SC2.
and just if anyone is intrested: the best halo motage around there if you ask me of the MLG national champion team str8 rippin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr5Dnk4Rd3k
Totally off-topic but;
So true.
It's a great video, watching it again brings back very fond memories.
On April 27 2012 21:20 Jedclark wrote: How are MLG milking esports? How do you expect esports to grow, if they can't monetise it? I think everyone is just jumping on another bandwagon.
MLG are doing a lot for esports.
People want esports to grow, but they don't want to contribute anything themselves.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2EpOv.jpg)
But its great to see, keep it up!
