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On April 23 2012 21:08 ePLocust wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 19:41 Velr wrote:On April 23 2012 15:15 CakeSauc3 wrote:
I don't understand the hate on MLG... both events are spectacular, each with something better than the other, give it a rest. PPV is a new experimental idea, but at least you get free vods, unlike GSL. MLG organises two of it's new events on days other, big, tournaments are held. MLG introduces PPV while deliviering nothing more than (free) Dreamhack and you guys still talk bullshit about "MLG is trying growing E-Sports"? MLG is having offline events whiteout a live audience? (srsly?). To me that looks like MLG is trying to milk E-Sports, not like trying to "grow" it and thats why i don't like them. It's entirely possible i'm wrong, but i actaully don't care, i'm sure Sundance "gets it"... Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 20:20 zaii wrote:
Milk eSports? rofl They have been tossing millions at this hobby for 10 years. That. MLG has been around for a long long long long time and they've put in a lot of money into growing their tournaments. What they need to do now is prove to their many investors that they can be profitable. The PPV does this for them and provides them the opportunity to fly players and house them for the events as well as prove to investors (who can provide even more) that they can make money off of an investment into mlg. I don't know about you but that sounds pretty damn great to me.
MLG for like 8 years spent money on console games no one cares about anymore and tried "growing" E-Sports.... And failed, still no one I know cares about console E-Sports.
Seriously, just disregard ANYTHING MLG did before SC2 (and LoL) came around, it's not the same business model anymore.. Else you seriously have to wonder.. How retarded have these investors been or how bad at business MLG is to not make a profit from add revenue when their viewership exploded like that? Yes, they had to buy chairs and satellite trucks (or rent in at locations with decent wiring  )... But the last 2 hardly make the difference between being profitable or not (in the long run).
Now to the "new" business Model... These Arenas.
MLG flies most/basically all players (and casters) from Korea to New York for like... No reason? There is no live audience...
How does this make any sense? Seriously, wouldn't it be cheaper (and in a miriad of ways smarter) to just do this stuff directly from Korea? Can't you just rent the GSL (or OGN or whatever) studio and do it from there? That would make sense...
MLG is not trying to grow E-Sport, it's asap trying to make money from it... They had like 9 years of no revenue at all and now, thanks to the growth of E-Sports, which they themselves didn't influence, they have a big enough viewer base to charge for a product others deliver for free... I call that milking...
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On April 21 2012 01:41 Waterflow wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2012 14:43 Femari wrote:On April 20 2012 04:20 ToF wrote:
Good move MLG, now stop scheduling your stuff over other peoples' events. lol you seem to know nothing about this at all. All this shit is planned so far in advance. You have to book the venue and things can fall apart so lol you. MLG Spring Arena is held in NYC. Last MLG i think they were at Liquids headquarters. I think it will be there this time aswell. So i don't know about that "book the venue" talk of yours. It's basically held in a flat in as skyscraper.
everything you just said is wrong 
mlg held the first arena at their offices, which required a reasonable amount of refurb to be ready for it so i dont know about how much time they had in advance to be sure they do a certain date. this weekend overlapping with dreamhack seemed a bit dickish, next weekend would of been so much better for people.
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On April 23 2012 21:55 Velr wrote:
MLG is not trying to grow E-Sport, it's asap trying to make money from it... They had like 9 years of no revenue at all and now, thanks to the growth of E-Sports, which they themselves didn't influence, they have a big enough viewer base to charge for a product others deliver for free... I call that milking...
While I do agree with you, MLG earning money is still helping with growing esports.
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It was a damn good thing that Dreamhack was on the same week with ML...PPV. The MLG system is so unwelcoming to new members of the community. Totally killing e-esports. I wish luck to Thorzain.
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On April 23 2012 21:55 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 21:08 ePLocust wrote:On April 23 2012 19:41 Velr wrote:On April 23 2012 15:15 CakeSauc3 wrote:
I don't understand the hate on MLG... both events are spectacular, each with something better than the other, give it a rest. PPV is a new experimental idea, but at least you get free vods, unlike GSL. MLG organises two of it's new events on days other, big, tournaments are held. MLG introduces PPV while deliviering nothing more than (free) Dreamhack and you guys still talk bullshit about "MLG is trying growing E-Sports"? MLG is having offline events whiteout a live audience? (srsly?). To me that looks like MLG is trying to milk E-Sports, not like trying to "grow" it and thats why i don't like them. It's entirely possible i'm wrong, but i actaully don't care, i'm sure Sundance "gets it"... On April 23 2012 20:20 zaii wrote:
Milk eSports? rofl They have been tossing millions at this hobby for 10 years. That. MLG has been around for a long long long long time and they've put in a lot of money into growing their tournaments. What they need to do now is prove to their many investors that they can be profitable. The PPV does this for them and provides them the opportunity to fly players and house them for the events as well as prove to investors (who can provide even more) that they can make money off of an investment into mlg. I don't know about you but that sounds pretty damn great to me. MLG for like 8 years spent money on console games no one cares about anymore and tried "growing" E-Sports.... And failed, still no one I know cares about console E-Sports. Seriously, just disregard ANYTHING MLG did before SC2 (and LoL) came around, it's not the same business model anymore.. Else you seriously have to wonder.. How retarded have these investors been or how bad at business MLG is to not make a profit from add revenue when their viewership exploded like that? Yes, they had to buy chairs and satellite trucks (or rent in at locations with decent wiring )... But the last 2 hardly make the difference between being profitable or not (in the long run). Now to the "new" business Model... These Arenas. MLG flies most/basically all players (and casters) from Korea to New York for like... No reason? There is no live audience... How does this make any sense? Seriously, wouldn't it be cheaper (and in a miriad of ways smarter) to just do this stuff directly from Korea? Can't you just rent the GSL (or OGN or whatever) studio and do it from there? That would make sense... MLG is not trying to grow E-Sport, it's asap trying to make money from it... They had like 9 years of no revenue at all and now, thanks to the growth of E-Sports, which they themselves didn't influence, they have a big enough viewer base to charge for a product others deliver for free... I call that milking...
I look at these tournaments as something to satisfy the hardcore SC2 fans and make some money for MLG, because you're basically right on all counts. They're objectively worse than the MLG championship events, and there's really no compelling reason for a casual viewer to buy this event when the better ones are free. If it's a model designed to attract everyone it's a bad one, but I don't think it is.
I don't know if this event was even successful at this price point. If you attempt to extrapolate a sales number from twitch viewer counts I don't think this event got made than 5,000 sales. Probably way closer to 4000.
I think what we're going to find out from these arenas is that there is only a small group of people willing to buy PPV events. Had it been $20 I think they would have had similar sales, and despite what everyone was yelling about last time the price of these things is very much inelastic and few if any of the people who said "make it $10" actually bought it.
In my opinion it's irrelevant to SC2 or "ESPORTS" as a whole if MLG want to make money off this small group of diehards. If they're happy buying it and MLG is happy selling it more power to them. MLG wouldn't mind making money for a change, and that small contingent of fans can never get enough SC2, and it's ultimately zero sum in the greater ESPORTS picture and goes nowhere to attract to the casual audience.
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Dreamhack should be embarrassed to be associated with MLG. MLG and there slogan "Growing Esport on dime at a time" what a joke.
No idea what Dreamhack was thinking
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MLG spent its money on console games, which is revolved around America gaming culture only. Its sponsors also are random stuff, such as phones (seriously, you think we like phones that much?) and Dr Pepper, while every other organizations' sponsors are computer/tech related (BenQ, Teamspeak, BeyondGaming,....) which are very relevant to PC users. MLG's sponsors are very heavy "American" (who use Xperia except people in America and what, Japan?; or Dr Pepper) while other organizations reach global. IEM, Dreamhack seems to run fine and are expanding, so are lots of Chinese.
MLG organizes its amazing and everything, but on the business side, it's suck. Not to mention this year MLG also cut cost by diverting lots of its business online. Now it's making money PPV from "elite" gaming community "SC2", why doesn't it try PPV with LoL which is far more popular game?
Anyway, I don't have problems with PPV. I only hate when MLG use sponsors and advertisement model as excuses to make PPV tournaments and whine about losing money for sympathy. If they just say "look, normal tournaments are great, but now we will organize some PPV tournaments as a side business model" that's fine by me, not "We need this PPV, esports is doomed"
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On April 19 2012 04:37 Cokefreak wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2012 04:32 Recoil wrote:
Nice! I always love when tournament winners get seeded into other tournies because that means they truely deserve it. I think it will just mean another Korean will get a seed, not that it's a bad thing 
now you eat your words ^^
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On April 23 2012 21:37 Frankon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 20:20 zaii wrote:
MLG Milking eSports? rofl They have been tossing millions at this hobby for 10 years. They were tossing them at the wrong games thought....
The wrong games that got them on TV, Got them Mainstream sponsors like BiC, Redbull, Dr.Pepper, Hotpockets etc etc. The wrong game that kept MLG alive , While the other PC gaming leagues in North America died out?
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O wow springbreak 2 already halway may and then in june another big tournament.
How manny ppv events have you guys planned for this spring/summer season?
"Halo is esports thx to mlg."
are you sure this is something to be proud of?
Halo is looked down upon alot by fps lovers.
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On April 24 2012 00:13 Rassy wrote:
O wow springbreak 2 already halway may and then in june another big tournament.
How manny ppv events have you guys planned for this spring/summer season?
"Halo is esports thx to mlg."
are you sure this is something to be proud of?
Halo is looked down upon alot by fps lovers.
it will always be looked down upon by PC elites
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This thread must be filled with younger nerds who have no real-word intelligence. MLG is a company, and companies have to make profits, or they die. To assume, just because MLG charges for services (no, no give me free stuff ... Spoiled brats) that it is not helping the scene shows high levels of ignorance. Production is not free. Get over it. If you can't cough up 10$ to watch something you "love," you might reconsider how much value you put into things.
To see two huge tournaments partner up should garner nothing but positive attention.
Are you guys growing eSports by whining about a company's business model?
*tumbleweeds roll by*
MLG is doing really great stuff, and to see them grow, along with other tournaments, should be a positive indicator that YOUR scene is growing.
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Won't be watching Spring Arena 2, as I have no interest in supporting a PPV system, but that's good that he'll likely make it into the Championship now.
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On April 24 2012 00:36 skrjabin wrote:
This thread must be filled with younger nerds who have no real-word intelligence. MLG is a company, and companies have to make profits, or they die. To assume, just because MLG charges for services (no, no give me free stuff ... Spoiled brats) that it is not helping the scene shows high levels of ignorance. Production is not free. Get over it. If you can't cough up 10$ to watch something you "love," you might reconsider how much value you put into things.
To see two huge tournaments partner up should garner nothing but positive attention.
Are you guys growing eSports by whining about a company's business model?
*tumbleweeds roll by*
MLG is doing really great stuff, and to see them grow, along with other tournaments, should be a positive indicator that YOUR scene is growing.
I value things that come free such as love, friendship, fresh air and pure water. Should I pay for that too since obviously paying is so much better ?
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On April 24 2012 00:49 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 00:36 skrjabin wrote:
This thread must be filled with younger nerds who have no real-word intelligence. MLG is a company, and companies have to make profits, or they die. To assume, just because MLG charges for services (no, no give me free stuff ... Spoiled brats) that it is not helping the scene shows high levels of ignorance. Production is not free. Get over it. If you can't cough up 10$ to watch something you "love," you might reconsider how much value you put into things.
To see two huge tournaments partner up should garner nothing but positive attention.
Are you guys growing eSports by whining about a company's business model?
*tumbleweeds roll by*
MLG is doing really great stuff, and to see them grow, along with other tournaments, should be a positive indicator that YOUR scene is growing. I value things that come free such as love, friendship, fresh air and pure water. Should I pay for that too since obviously paying is so much better ?
again, if this is supposed to be a counter to how a business supports itself, you've made a non-argument. If you aren't willing to pay for a service and would rather whine about it, you don't deserve to receive that service.
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On April 24 2012 00:13 Rassy wrote:
O wow springbreak 2 already halway may and then in june another big tournament.
How manny ppv events have you guys planned for this spring/summer season?
"Halo is esports thx to mlg."
are you sure this is something to be proud of?
Halo is looked down upon alot by fps lovers.
There is no "fps lover" with a brain that dislikes the earlier Halo games. It's impossible.
MLG are awesome because of how much attention and how many people they bring in into ESPORTS. They're also one of the most important parts to the tournament scene. They want to make money because they want to make their business sustainable and they do it partly through PPV which is good for everyone in the long run. DH is a digital festival with the worlds largest lan, they probably make enough money already.
Looking forward to seeing Master Jane at the next Arena. 
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On April 24 2012 00:54 skrjabin wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2012 00:49 Otolia wrote:On April 24 2012 00:36 skrjabin wrote:
This thread must be filled with younger nerds who have no real-word intelligence. MLG is a company, and companies have to make profits, or they die. To assume, just because MLG charges for services (no, no give me free stuff ... Spoiled brats) that it is not helping the scene shows high levels of ignorance. Production is not free. Get over it. If you can't cough up 10$ to watch something you "love," you might reconsider how much value you put into things.
To see two huge tournaments partner up should garner nothing but positive attention.
Are you guys growing eSports by whining about a company's business model?
*tumbleweeds roll by*
MLG is doing really great stuff, and to see them grow, along with other tournaments, should be a positive indicator that YOUR scene is growing. I value things that come free such as love, friendship, fresh air and pure water. Should I pay for that too since obviously paying is so much better ? again, if this is supposed to be a counter to how a business supports itself, you've made a non-argument. If you aren't willing to pay for a service and would rather whine about it, you don't deserve to receive that service.
If MLG can sustain this PPV model good for them.
However, it's still not justifiable in most peoples eyes (including my own). As their services provide nothing more than other tournament organisers whom provide the same content free of charge. We don't hear an outcry from the CEO of any other tournament organiser that they need to experiment with PPV to satisfy investors. Honestly Sundance is using the cowardly tool of fear mongering to advocate the PPV model. "We need to experiment with this or MLG might go down the shitter".
Even if what he is saying regarding PPV is true. Then he has made some serious miss calculations on the business side, which other tournament organisers have managed to avoid apparently.
In conclusion, if MLG can sustain this model. Good for them, good for E-sports. But if they fail and MLG does indeed downsize or cease to exist entirely. That's good for e-sports too as it increases revenue for MLG's competitors. Thus consolidating the scene into a handful of large event holders who eill have more money to play with. So it's a win-win situation in my eyes.
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EPT
