On April 24 2012 00:36 skrjabin wrote: This thread must be filled with younger nerds who have no real-word intelligence. MLG is a company, and companies have to make profits, or they die. To assume, just because MLG charges for services (no, no give me free stuff ... Spoiled brats) that it is not helping the scene shows high levels of ignorance. Production is not free. Get over it. If you can't cough up 10$ to watch something you "love," you might reconsider how much value you put into things.
To see two huge tournaments partner up should garner nothing but positive attention. Are you guys growing eSports by whining about a company's business model? *tumbleweeds roll by* MLG is doing really great stuff, and to see them grow, along with other tournaments, should be a positive indicator that YOUR scene is growing.
Just becuase people dont got the same oppinion as yours doesnt make them younger nerds. MLG is a company and there goal in life is to make money. And thats my hole problem. This scene isnt big enough to support pure capitalisme. Its just isnt.
MLG arnt growing the sc2 scene. You know what would happend if MLG was the only sc2 tournament? The same thing that happend to the halo scene. Well there isnt much of a scene today but back in the day it was growing then came MLG and today well what a joke.
Im strongly against MLG the faster they fail and go bankrupt the better it is for the sc2 community. Then we can concentrate on growing sc2 instead of ripping of the few fans we got.
Look at Dreamhack thats how you grow an Esport.
The second thing I got to add is they are basically making money of the players hard work. What salery did Huk make for all his hard work this weekend? Nothing and at the same time Sundance is counting his PPV money. Discusting
Checking spelling would make your opinion much more respected. Most browsers today have a built in spell check for you.
Also, MLG going bankrupt would probably be one of the worst things that could happen. Losing that huge of a player in the scene will scare away sponsors and it would work against legitimizing the scene.
In response to your last part, yes the players work their asses off but so does the MLG staff. Running an event like an MLG is a huge task and it takes a lot of work along with them providing the opportunity for the players to make a living doing what they do. Discounting the work that they put into events just seems kind of ridiculous.
You dont see a problem with that?? Most of the players dont get payed but the staff and commentators do? Again what a joke.
And no if MLG went bankrupt we could actually grow the sc2 scene. Dreamhack and IPL would take over and introduce sc2 to new fans. And thats what we need to grow.
In the mean time we can just wait and see and hope MLG dont milk the fans and the players to much.
I just.... don't understand what your point is. Every tournament pays the staff and commentators and the players have to earn their pay by winning that isn't really exclusive to MLG.
MLG is one of the iconic tournaments of the sc2 scene right now the arenas are just a part of that and the main events still attract a ton of attention. Just because MLG is here doesn't mean that Dreamhack and IPL can't help introduce more people to the game. MLG does the same thing with their main events.
With their arenas they can offer more and more for the fans and the community. They're leading the way into legitimizing eSports.
It isn't the responsibility of the tournament to pay the players, it's the team. Look at any sport, the NHL/NFL/NBA/etc does not pay the players to participate in the tournament..
The bottom line, it seems, is that people are really pissed that they are no longer being shoveled hours and hours and hours (and hours, and hours, and days, and weeks) of free content. But actually, they still are, with the exception of these two events, which would simply not have happened without PPV.
On April 24 2012 00:36 skrjabin wrote: This thread must be filled with younger nerds who have no real-word intelligence. MLG is a company, and companies have to make profits, or they die. To assume, just because MLG charges for services (no, no give me free stuff ... Spoiled brats) that it is not helping the scene shows high levels of ignorance. Production is not free. Get over it. If you can't cough up 10$ to watch something you "love," you might reconsider how much value you put into things.
To see two huge tournaments partner up should garner nothing but positive attention. Are you guys growing eSports by whining about a company's business model? *tumbleweeds roll by* MLG is doing really great stuff, and to see them grow, along with other tournaments, should be a positive indicator that YOUR scene is growing.
MLG arnt growing the sc2 scene. You know what would happend if MLG was the only sc2 tournament? The same thing that happend to the halo scene. Well there isnt much of a scene today but back in the day it was growing then came MLG and today well what a joke.
i once again have to defend the halo scene: first: without MLG there wouldnt be such a thing called "halo scene", you could compare it this way: what TL is to SC, that is MLG to halo. the halo scene actually only grew cuz of MLG! for a whole 7 or 8 years!
and the what happend to the halo scene isnt the mistake of MLG, its the mistake of bungie. imagine sc: heart of the swarm was total crap and nobody would play it after 3 months, would it be MLGs fault as well if nobody was intrested?. thats what happend with halo: reach. we can only hope h4 will be better.
Out of interest: So if the old halo was that good.. Why did the scene (or MLG?) switch to Reach?
Iirc CS proscene stayed on 1.6 instead of jumping to source... Iirc Quake 3/live also survived its succesors for a long time?
Why didn't Halo?... I only played Halo 2 single player an honestly tought it was "decent for one playthru in coop" and that was it.. But i'm not really a FPS fan so... Why?
well; there where a lot of people who didnt want to change the title. a lot of people actually say halo:CE > halo 2 > halo 3 > halo reach (in aspects of how well suited they are for esports)
there are some reasons why MLG changed to the new games: look how many people play halo 3 compared to halo reach, if you go online there are about 10-20k people playing h3 at a given time. reach is faaaaaar more. from time to time i play a game or two of some old halo... i mean look at the grafics lol.
compare :-)
CE: Reach:
and just if anyone is intrested: the best halo motage around there if you ask me of the MLG national champion team str8 rippin
also as we already mentioned MLG is a company that needs to make money. and its always easier to go with the newest title, the one with the most players.
it would have actually killed the halo comunity if it had split up between halo 2 / 3 and reach. (i know there are some people still playing CE/2/3 but thats a minority)
I would bet Microsoft would have some influence on which title was used? I have no proof of that, but it would seem a company that large would have some say, or pull, in a situation like this.
darkcloud8282 Canada. April 24 2012 10:44. Posts 524
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it isn't the responsibility of the tournament to pay the players, it's the team. Look at any sport, the NHL/NFL/NBA/etc does not pay the players to participate in the tournament..
Yes it is, but if you look at for example the championsleague, then you will see that the majority or at least a huge part of the revenu of that league goes towards the teams participating, who in turn use it to pay players salerys amongst other things. In most sports, the top players as a group do earn more then the organisers (correct me if am wrong btw) Sure tournaments make alot of monney for themself also, to pay staff and make a profit but the players make alot as well. It somehow feels to me (though i dont know the exact figures off course, this is just an impression i get) that in sc tournament organisers and their staff, as well as casters make considerably more monney as a group then then the top players get as a group. This mostly goes for mlg btw, not for all the tournaments wich barely break even. Dont think this is a healthy situation in the long run
On April 24 2012 23:12 Rassy wrote: darkcloud8282 Canada. April 24 2012 10:44. Posts 524
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it isn't the responsibility of the tournament to pay the players, it's the team. Look at any sport, the NHL/NFL/NBA/etc does not pay the players to participate in the tournament..
Yes it is, but if you look at for example the championsleague, then you will see that the majority or at least a huge part of the revenu of that league goes towards the teams participating, who in turn use it to pay players salerys amongst other things. In most sports, the top players as a group do earn more then the organisers (correct me if am wrong btw) Sure tournaments make alot of monney for themself also, to pay staff and make a profit but the players make alot as well. It somehow feels to me (though i dont know the exact figures off course, this is just an impression i get) that in sc tournament organisers and their staff, as well as casters make considerably more monney as a group then then the top players get as a group. This mostly goes for mlg btw, not for all the tournaments wich barely break even. Dont think this is a healthy situation in the long run
I'm still not sure the player pay is relevant in this argument. Let me qualify that by saying that I want players to make tons of money! It's great for the scene, but I think choosing to be a progamer, like a poker player, has the inherent risk of "If I don't win, I won't make a lot." Unfortunate as it may be, it's still the understanding I assume one come to grips with when you choose this lifestyle. It seems volatile.
But more to the point, with regards to the PPV, MLG is basically giving teams/organizations thousands of dollars (by paying all expenses) to expose their players and brands. What the teams do with that money, well, we don't know, and frankly, it's not our business. We can hope the players get some of it, but the point is, demonizing MLG for this PPV is a false battle to fight simply because they are giving so much money to the teams just to make this happen. Again, can only hope the players receive some of this money.
On April 19 2012 14:30 JiYan wrote: so iirc, none of mlg contestants win any future dreamhack spots? =\
Dreamhack just became an MLG qualifier... hilarious.
Yeah i find this kinda f#cked up too.
I agree with you guys. And thats not a collaboration. Sorry, but i am seeing only one side of action. mlg grabs a hero for his own championship, thats all. i am not seeing anymore funky colaboration. When I red the headline of this thread i was really interested of all the posibillities there are for an interaction of all the different tournaments and leauges. I am all excited of the develop- ment of Starcraft 2 globally. The intercultural interactions in most of this part but also how the different companies are building up their business based on their ethics. MLG gets a good player for their show and I guess will also be mentioned when the winner gets his prize (did it?). So extending DH just with a qualifiing spot for MLG is not really a collaboration as just a small circumstance for MLG.
I like to see some enthusiasm from the guys that have the ressources and big foot already in that scene. The interaction between tournaments is an unexplored field and so many things could be done interessting. What about an interaction live for the players between different tournaments at the same time. E.g. playing against each other. Or setting up a continental / global point system. Sky is the limit.
Personally, i hope that DH will not have any so called "colaboration" with MLG that let it look like a peasant. Specially because DH is so much more than MLG considering just SC2.
and just if anyone is intrested: the best halo motage around there if you ask me of the MLG national champion team str8 rippin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr5Dnk4Rd3k
Totally off-topic but;
So true.
It's a great video, watching it again brings back very fond memories.
On April 27 2012 21:20 Jedclark wrote: How are MLG milking esports? How do you expect esports to grow, if they can't monetise it? I think everyone is just jumping on another bandwagon.
MLG are doing a lot for esports.
People want esports to grow, but they don't want to contribute anything themselves.
EPT
