Match Making Changes in Ladder Season 7 - Page 12
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K3Nyy
United States1961 Posts
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Dephy
Lithuania163 Posts
On April 09 2012 16:01 K3Nyy wrote: It doesn't really matter but I rather they remove the slightly favored/favored thing out in my opinion. It serves nothing but getting people nervous. I'll imagine next season a lot of people will ladder less because they're afraid to be matched constantly with people lower than them. yes they should remove it or have option to disable it. | ||
mango_destroyer
Canada3914 Posts
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D_K_night
Canada615 Posts
If you lose against someone 2 leagues above...then it's nothing to be ashamed of because you are not gonna lose hardly any points. I like the change. | ||
Eifer
United States138 Posts
Extremes on the ladder: -High GM will have even higher win rates. -Bronze players will get defeated one-sidedly more often. Ladder goals: -Players that want to gain X points will have to deal with straight up losing a % of their games during a ladder session. =This could be [theoretically] avoided by giving even more disproportionate amounts of points for wins/losses (+24/-3) -Streaks can be convincingly cut short Entertainment: -Players often are able to easily beat significantly lower skilled opponents. Having very easy games occasionally isn't appealing or entertaining in the long run. -Losses can be so crushing that they become demoralizing -Potentially lower quality games*. -Potentially more high aggression strategies from the lower ranked player, due to the pre-match Favored status information. *I personally find (I am rank ~1 to 4 masters) that when I play a rank 8-10 master player, the game is incredibly easy. If I want, and as I often do in ladder games, I could cut it very short. Games with very different skill levels will be counter productive, insofar as the games will be of lower quality. That first "pressure" push, might make you straight up win. ZvZs might not get out of the ling/bane phase. PvPs can end incredibly quickly. Differences in macro-ability can make extended games unfeasible. These skill level differentials don't just exist between separate leagues, but also subsets of diamond and masters divisions. If the skill gap of searchable players is widened from (guessing) 400 point difference with +/- 200 pts to 800 pt difference occasionally, the resulting games will have this problem. To me, it's not good. | ||
ricecake
152 Posts
You learn more from playing somebody better than you, than playing somebody who is the same skill as you. For example I am mid-diamond and recently played a couple of marine-tank vs marine-tank battles (it was late, so I got matched with the same guy 3 times :D). They was close, but only because each game we consistently made mistakes and threw away our marine forces. If he had been significantly higher skill than me (i.e., a bigger skill gap than the current matchmaking system affords) I would have learned and improved much more than I did through those games, even if I got crushed. This seems like a win-win. One player gets an almost-guaranteed win, the other gets a good learning experience. | ||
mrtomjones
Canada4020 Posts
On April 09 2012 16:28 ricecake wrote: I think this is a very, very good change. You learn more from playing somebody better than you, than playing somebody who is the same skill as you. For example I am mid-diamond and recently played a couple of marine-tank vs marine-tank battles (it was late, so I got matched with the same guy 3 times :D). They was close, but only because each game we consistently made mistakes and threw away our marine forces. If he had been significantly higher skill than me (i.e., a bigger skill gap than the current matchmaking system affords) I would have learned and improved much more than I did through those games, even if I got crushed. This seems like a win-win. One player gets an almost-guaranteed win, the other gets a good learning experience. I dislike this as a person who plays 4's and 3's mainly... the top players tend to cheese a ton so I'd rather have the amount of cheese i face in high diamond/low masters | ||
akalarry
United States1978 Posts
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xXxAPM_NoScoP_420xXx
France31 Posts
On April 09 2012 16:46 akalarry wrote: this is blizzard's way of saying that there are less players and they are trying to keep the waiting time down I never once waited more than 1 min to find a match. The matchmaking system is totally functional at this moment. Blizzard wants to try something, let's go for it but it is unnecessary to assume this kind of statement. I am glad this change comes. I was stuck at the top of my league for so long before getting promoted, even if I "stomped" players from superior leagues. In this sens the system was broken. A more dynamic ladder doesn't mean a dead ladder. | ||
PaNiCterrran
Sweden47 Posts
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Lunden
Denmark79 Posts
On April 07 2012 02:18 Zombo Joe wrote: Pretty sure they are doing this because there are always less and less players on the ladder and they need to match people up quicker. Do you have numbers that support this claim? just curious | ||
OrangeApples
137 Posts
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Noobity
United States871 Posts
Contrastingly, if I were a pro, I'd never want to spend my ladder time facing players that weren't to my level. Honestly, if I were in GM and I wasn't facing strictly GM players I'd be annoyed. I think GM should be the exception, and they should never face someone much lower than themselves in play. Hell I think they need to make GM 300-500 players, and have them only face off against each other, but that's just me. | ||
SovSov
United States755 Posts
On April 09 2012 16:15 Eifersuchtig wrote: I don't feel this is a good change for the following reasons. Extremes on the ladder: -High GM will have even higher win rates. -Bronze players will get defeated one-sidedly more often. Ladder goals: -Players that want to gain X points will have to deal with straight up losing a % of their games during a ladder session. =This could be [theoretically] avoided by giving even more disproportionate amounts of points for wins/losses (+24/-3) -Streaks can be convincingly cut short Entertainment: -Players often are able to easily beat significantly lower skilled opponents. Having very easy games occasionally isn't appealing or entertaining in the long run. -Losses can be so crushing that they become demoralizing -Potentially lower quality games*. -Potentially more high aggression strategies from the lower ranked player, due to the pre-match Favored status information. *I personally find (I am rank ~1 to 4 masters) that when I play a rank 8-10 master player, the game is incredibly easy. If I want, and as I often do in ladder games, I could cut it very short. Games with very different skill levels will be counter productive, insofar as the games will be of lower quality. That first "pressure" push, might make you straight up win. ZvZs might not get out of the ling/bane phase. PvPs can end incredibly quickly. Differences in macro-ability can make extended games unfeasible. These skill level differentials don't just exist between separate leagues, but also subsets of diamond and masters divisions. If the skill gap of searchable players is widened from (guessing) 400 point difference with +/- 200 pts to 800 pt difference occasionally, the resulting games will have this problem. To me, it's not good. This changes nothing for Top GMs because of the MMR cap top players already face opponents they are favored against frequently. If they are at the bottom of the bottom of Bronze then everyone is already favored anyways so again, it changes nothing. You should think more carefully next time. On April 09 2012 18:39 lunden0608 wrote: Do you have numbers that support this claim? just curious It's a generally known thing and it's also why Blizzard does shorter seasons. If you want your numbers go to sc2ranks.com and do the research yourself. | ||
Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
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SovSov
United States755 Posts
On April 10 2012 02:17 Pokebunny wrote: Really good for lower league players, really shitty for GMs, many of whom already have 60% winrates because they match up against bad players too much. Read my post above, it doesn't change anything for the extreme top and extreme bottom players. Everyone in between is affected equally. | ||
Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On April 10 2012 02:19 SovSov wrote: Read my post above, it doesn't change anything for the extreme top and extreme bottom players. Everyone in between is affected equally. No, it does. GMs are already playing people below them, now they'll play people even farther below them. They'll still get the same amount of points, but it just makes for more shitty practice and higher winrates. The MMR cap will still be in place. It just means we'll play vs a higher range of MMR opponents, which means people even lower below us than we were already playing. We'll be favored and more heavily favored even more frequently than we already were. Our range of opponents can't be extended more upwards (because there's nothing above top GM) so it will only be extended downwards (playing more mid/high master players. | ||
HyperionDreamer
Canada1528 Posts
On April 10 2012 02:26 Pokebunny wrote: No, it does. GMs are already playing people below them, now they'll play people even farther below them. They'll still get the same amount of points, but it just makes for more shitty practice and higher winrates. The MMR cap will still be in place. It just means we'll play vs a higher range of MMR opponents, which means people even lower below us than we were already playing. We'll be favored and more heavily favored even more frequently than we already were. Our range of opponents can't be extended more upwards (because there's nothing above top GM) so it will only be extended downwards (playing more mid/high master players. This is correct. If they had not implemented the MMR cap, then you would be correct in saying that it changes nothing for GM players. However, since they put this arbitrary cap on MMR, grandmasters are playing against people far below their skill level anyway, and this is only going to increase that range. I personally don't care about it since I'll get to play against progamers maybe once in a while. ![]() | ||
p1cKLes
United States342 Posts
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Adonminus
Israel543 Posts
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