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Match Making Changes in Ladder Season 7 - Page 12

Forum Index > SC2 General
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K3Nyy
Profile Joined February 2010
United States1961 Posts
April 09 2012 07:01 GMT
#221
It doesn't really matter but I rather they remove the slightly favored/favored thing out in my opinion. It serves nothing but getting people nervous. I'll imagine next season a lot of people will ladder less because they're afraid to be matched constantly with people lower than them.
Dephy
Profile Joined January 2011
Lithuania163 Posts
April 09 2012 07:03 GMT
#222
On April 09 2012 16:01 K3Nyy wrote:
It doesn't really matter but I rather they remove the slightly favored/favored thing out in my opinion. It serves nothing but getting people nervous. I'll imagine next season a lot of people will ladder less because they're afraid to be matched constantly with people lower than them.

yes they should remove it or have option to disable it.
mango_destroyer
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada3914 Posts
April 09 2012 07:10 GMT
#223
Why fix what isn`t broken...in my opinion at least. I thought the match making is the only good thing about bnet.
D_K_night
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada615 Posts
April 09 2012 07:13 GMT
#224
Why so upset? If you were meant to win, then you'd win against these players 2 leagues lower than you.

If you lose against someone 2 leagues above...then it's nothing to be ashamed of because you are not gonna lose hardly any points. I like the change.
Canada
Eifer
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States138 Posts
April 09 2012 07:15 GMT
#225
I don't feel this is a good change for the following reasons.

Extremes on the ladder:
-High GM will have even higher win rates.
-Bronze players will get defeated one-sidedly more often.

Ladder goals:
-Players that want to gain X points will have to deal with straight up losing a % of their games during a ladder session.
=This could be [theoretically] avoided by giving even more disproportionate amounts of points for wins/losses (+24/-3)
-Streaks can be convincingly cut short


Entertainment:
-Players often are able to easily beat significantly lower skilled opponents. Having very easy games occasionally isn't appealing or entertaining in the long run.
-Losses can be so crushing that they become demoralizing
-Potentially lower quality games*.
-Potentially more high aggression strategies from the lower ranked player, due to the pre-match Favored status information.

*I personally find (I am rank ~1 to 4 masters) that when I play a rank 8-10 master player, the game is incredibly easy. If I want, and as I often do in ladder games, I could cut it very short. Games with very different skill levels will be counter productive, insofar as the games will be of lower quality. That first "pressure" push, might make you straight up win. ZvZs might not get out of the ling/bane phase. PvPs can end incredibly quickly. Differences in macro-ability can make extended games unfeasible. These skill level differentials don't just exist between separate leagues, but also subsets of diamond and masters divisions. If the skill gap of searchable players is widened from (guessing) 400 point difference with +/- 200 pts to 800 pt difference occasionally, the resulting games will have this problem. To me, it's not good.
ricecake
Profile Joined October 2010
152 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-09 07:28:46
April 09 2012 07:28 GMT
#226
I think this is a very, very good change.

You learn more from playing somebody better than you, than playing somebody who is the same skill as you. For example I am mid-diamond and recently played a couple of marine-tank vs marine-tank battles (it was late, so I got matched with the same guy 3 times :D). They was close, but only because each game we consistently made mistakes and threw away our marine forces.

If he had been significantly higher skill than me (i.e., a bigger skill gap than the current matchmaking system affords) I would have learned and improved much more than I did through those games, even if I got crushed.

This seems like a win-win. One player gets an almost-guaranteed win, the other gets a good learning experience.
Steak's hair gives him super strength!
mrtomjones
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada4020 Posts
April 09 2012 07:34 GMT
#227
On April 09 2012 16:28 ricecake wrote:
I think this is a very, very good change.

You learn more from playing somebody better than you, than playing somebody who is the same skill as you. For example I am mid-diamond and recently played a couple of marine-tank vs marine-tank battles (it was late, so I got matched with the same guy 3 times :D). They was close, but only because each game we consistently made mistakes and threw away our marine forces.

If he had been significantly higher skill than me (i.e., a bigger skill gap than the current matchmaking system affords) I would have learned and improved much more than I did through those games, even if I got crushed.

This seems like a win-win. One player gets an almost-guaranteed win, the other gets a good learning experience.

I dislike this as a person who plays 4's and 3's mainly... the top players tend to cheese a ton so I'd rather have the amount of cheese i face in high diamond/low masters
akalarry
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1978 Posts
April 09 2012 07:46 GMT
#228
this is blizzard's way of saying that there are less players and they are trying to keep the waiting time down
xXxAPM_NoScoP_420xXx
Profile Joined April 2012
France31 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-09 07:59:15
April 09 2012 07:58 GMT
#229
On April 09 2012 16:46 akalarry wrote:
this is blizzard's way of saying that there are less players and they are trying to keep the waiting time down


I never once waited more than 1 min to find a match. The matchmaking system is totally functional at this moment.
Blizzard wants to try something, let's go for it but it is unnecessary to assume this kind of statement.

I am glad this change comes. I was stuck at the top of my league for so long before getting promoted, even if I "stomped" players from superior leagues. In this sens the system was broken. A more dynamic ladder doesn't mean a dead ladder.
5SDSRRRRRR XD TEAM I MAEK ROACHU XD | Supporting: Stephano CrazyMoving Eeel Zenio BBoongBBoong Idra
PaNiCterrran
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden47 Posts
April 09 2012 08:26 GMT
#230
I'm actually excited about this change. Too often I stop playing ladder after 3-4 games just because it's so exhausting to that evenly matched. With this change the games will most likely end quicker so you can move on to the next ones without having to check the replay to find where you messed up.
One One One Build, To Rule Them All!
Lunden
Profile Joined June 2011
Denmark79 Posts
April 09 2012 09:39 GMT
#231
On April 07 2012 02:18 Zombo Joe wrote:
Pretty sure they are doing this because there are always less and less players on the ladder and they need to match people up quicker.


Do you have numbers that support this claim? just curious
You always pass failure on the way to success
OrangeApples
Profile Joined January 2011
137 Posts
April 09 2012 15:11 GMT
#232
This is a good concept imo. You won't get any better by consistently playing the same level opponents over again, but rather from difficult ones. Also, if you lose to lower league players then its a good reminder to go back to basics of strategy and mechanisms.
Noobity
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States871 Posts
April 09 2012 17:11 GMT
#233
I personally like the change, but I wish there was more of an option. Frankly I'd love to play much higher level players than myself over and over again. I don't want to play lower level players ever. If I lost my next 80 games but they were all to masters level players (I'm diamond, likely the low-end), I'd be learning and getting better and happy.

Contrastingly, if I were a pro, I'd never want to spend my ladder time facing players that weren't to my level. Honestly, if I were in GM and I wasn't facing strictly GM players I'd be annoyed.

I think GM should be the exception, and they should never face someone much lower than themselves in play. Hell I think they need to make GM 300-500 players, and have them only face off against each other, but that's just me.
My name is Mike, and statistically, yours is not.
SovSov
Profile Joined September 2010
United States755 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-09 17:20:33
April 09 2012 17:15 GMT
#234
On April 09 2012 16:15 Eifersuchtig wrote:
I don't feel this is a good change for the following reasons.

Extremes on the ladder:
-High GM will have even higher win rates.
-Bronze players will get defeated one-sidedly more often.

Ladder goals:
-Players that want to gain X points will have to deal with straight up losing a % of their games during a ladder session.
=This could be [theoretically] avoided by giving even more disproportionate amounts of points for wins/losses (+24/-3)
-Streaks can be convincingly cut short


Entertainment:
-Players often are able to easily beat significantly lower skilled opponents. Having very easy games occasionally isn't appealing or entertaining in the long run.
-Losses can be so crushing that they become demoralizing
-Potentially lower quality games*.
-Potentially more high aggression strategies from the lower ranked player, due to the pre-match Favored status information.

*I personally find (I am rank ~1 to 4 masters) that when I play a rank 8-10 master player, the game is incredibly easy. If I want, and as I often do in ladder games, I could cut it very short. Games with very different skill levels will be counter productive, insofar as the games will be of lower quality. That first "pressure" push, might make you straight up win. ZvZs might not get out of the ling/bane phase. PvPs can end incredibly quickly. Differences in macro-ability can make extended games unfeasible. These skill level differentials don't just exist between separate leagues, but also subsets of diamond and masters divisions. If the skill gap of searchable players is widened from (guessing) 400 point difference with +/- 200 pts to 800 pt difference occasionally, the resulting games will have this problem. To me, it's not good.

This changes nothing for Top GMs because of the MMR cap top players already face opponents they are favored against frequently. If they are at the bottom of the bottom of Bronze then everyone is already favored anyways so again, it changes nothing. You should think more carefully next time.

On April 09 2012 18:39 lunden0608 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2012 02:18 Zombo Joe wrote:
Pretty sure they are doing this because there are always less and less players on the ladder and they need to match people up quicker.


Do you have numbers that support this claim? just curious

It's a generally known thing and it's also why Blizzard does shorter seasons. If you want your numbers go to sc2ranks.com and do the research yourself.
Pokebunny
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States10654 Posts
April 09 2012 17:17 GMT
#235
Really good for lower league players, really shitty for GMs, many of whom already have 60% winrates because they match up against bad players too much.
Semipro Terran player | Pokebunny#1710 | twitter.com/Pokebunny | twitch.tv/Pokebunny | facebook.com/PokebunnySC
SovSov
Profile Joined September 2010
United States755 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-09 17:19:47
April 09 2012 17:19 GMT
#236
On April 10 2012 02:17 Pokebunny wrote:
Really good for lower league players, really shitty for GMs, many of whom already have 60% winrates because they match up against bad players too much.

Read my post above, it doesn't change anything for the extreme top and extreme bottom players. Everyone in between is affected equally.
Pokebunny
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States10654 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-04-09 17:28:13
April 09 2012 17:26 GMT
#237
On April 10 2012 02:19 SovSov wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2012 02:17 Pokebunny wrote:
Really good for lower league players, really shitty for GMs, many of whom already have 60% winrates because they match up against bad players too much.

Read my post above, it doesn't change anything for the extreme top and extreme bottom players. Everyone in between is affected equally.

No, it does. GMs are already playing people below them, now they'll play people even farther below them. They'll still get the same amount of points, but it just makes for more shitty practice and higher winrates.

The MMR cap will still be in place. It just means we'll play vs a higher range of MMR opponents, which means people even lower below us than we were already playing. We'll be favored and more heavily favored even more frequently than we already were. Our range of opponents can't be extended more upwards (because there's nothing above top GM) so it will only be extended downwards (playing more mid/high master players.
Semipro Terran player | Pokebunny#1710 | twitter.com/Pokebunny | twitch.tv/Pokebunny | facebook.com/PokebunnySC
HyperionDreamer
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Canada1528 Posts
April 09 2012 17:32 GMT
#238
On April 10 2012 02:26 Pokebunny wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2012 02:19 SovSov wrote:
On April 10 2012 02:17 Pokebunny wrote:
Really good for lower league players, really shitty for GMs, many of whom already have 60% winrates because they match up against bad players too much.

Read my post above, it doesn't change anything for the extreme top and extreme bottom players. Everyone in between is affected equally.

No, it does. GMs are already playing people below them, now they'll play people even farther below them. They'll still get the same amount of points, but it just makes for more shitty practice and higher winrates.

The MMR cap will still be in place. It just means we'll play vs a higher range of MMR opponents, which means people even lower below us than we were already playing. We'll be favored and more heavily favored even more frequently than we already were. Our range of opponents can't be extended more upwards (because there's nothing above top GM) so it will only be extended downwards (playing more mid/high master players.

This is correct. If they had not implemented the MMR cap, then you would be correct in saying that it changes nothing for GM players. However, since they put this arbitrary cap on MMR, grandmasters are playing against people far below their skill level anyway, and this is only going to increase that range.

I personally don't care about it since I'll get to play against progamers maybe once in a while.
BW4life! Jaedong ~ Savior ~ Shine ; "drowning sorrows in late night infomercials" - bnYsooch
p1cKLes
Profile Joined November 2010
United States342 Posts
April 09 2012 17:34 GMT
#239
I think it's a good idea, but they should cut out the top and bottom 5% of players. That way Grand Masters will consistently play Grand Masters and Bronze will be more evenly matched with their opponents so to not discourage them from playing.

Adonminus
Profile Joined January 2012
Israel543 Posts
April 09 2012 17:42 GMT
#240
I think it already happens in gm/high master because of the mmr cap so people of different skills still face each other because they are mmr capped. Also happens when the system can't find anyone of your skill level at that current time. I guess it's a very small change.
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