EPT[IPL4] Open Bracket Released - Page 11
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Azuroz
Sweden1630 Posts
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Lorch
Germany3703 Posts
On April 04 2012 18:20 Corsica wrote: Dimaga vs Leenock should be good,a also now we have a tournament where we can say that noone had easy road to the finals  Thats Nony vs Dimaga  Insane lineup, especially if you add all the invited/seeded players. Should be a real treat to watch. This tourney is getting better by the day, first no TB, now insane open bracket lineup. Might have to rape my sleep schedule for this. Also besides the fact that it sucks teamkills are actually not that bad from the teams perspective, it means that in the given situation you have a 100% change that someone from your team moves on to the next round, and the other dude can still make it through loosers bracket. | ||
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stichtom
Italy695 Posts
![[image loading]](http://desmond.yfrog.com/Himg815/scaled.php?tn=0&server=815&filename=d4qplc.jpg&xsize=640&ysize=640) Nice interview with David Ting (Boss of IPL): http://www.team-dignitas.net/articles/blogs/Interview/1158/David-Ting-of-IPL-My-goal-is-to-run-4-major-events-a-year-with-a-lot-of-qualifiers/ Full schedule: http://www.ign.com/ipl/all/ipl4/guide/ | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On April 04 2012 21:55 Bumblebee wrote: I don't really have a refined opinion on team kills in such brackets. It's sort of just tough luck, but I wonder if there can't be done something to prevent it at least for a while or not "that many". If you look over the bracket, we - Team Liquid - kill eachother very early all over the bracket. It's just not worthwhile business for us to send so many players to such events if they're going to eliminate eachother that early. I'm not saying we can prevent teamkills all the way until the bracket finals - or we almost can, but I don't expect it. I'm just simply thinking if there isn't a fair way to draft so that we won't have 2-3 teamkills in the third round? What are your opinions out there? Do you think it'd be fair to put what team people are on into such an equation? It would be nice in a way, if you put it last, after you spread out all your seeds and whatever ranking the tourney is using. Then you could imagine that the random placing that is left got the extra constraint of trying to not make team kills. Problem however, is that it would then be beneficial to be on a team with many other good players. For example, if Hero goes to a pretty small tourney (as favourite to win) but that doesn't have much previous seeds or ranking, most players would be very happy to be placed far away from hero, and would thus get an (imo unfair) advantage by being on liquid. And also the opposite, if another team with a lot of bad players went to the tourney, they would run a higher risk of being matched with a strong opponent. The bad players would be better of being teamless. Imo, we don't need to make the strong teams even stronger, so I do not think this should be implemented. It sucks for liquid, I feel you, but I don't think it would work in the long run to take team into account when making brackets. | ||
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ninjamyst
United States1903 Posts
On April 04 2012 22:02 DamageControL wrote: Sheth, Tyler, Jinro, and Haypro have to get to finals before a teamkill Hero and Ret meet in quarterfinals TLO, Taeja and Zenio are he worst, but they don't meet till quarter and semifinals. It honestly doesn't seem that terrible when you have 9 players in open. edit: I'd prefer less liquids hitting, I love liquid, but i don't think it's that terrible. I think the worst part is that TL's best players are matched together in the same bracket while the rest are more spread out to the point that they may not even make it to the finals without getting slaughtered by Koreans. | ||
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OMGKEI
Australia590 Posts
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bouhko
193 Posts
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KingwAyz
United Kingdom16 Posts
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DifuntO
Greece2376 Posts
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Femari
United States2900 Posts
Stacked as fuck | ||
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ROOTIllusion
United States1060 Posts
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bouhko
193 Posts
On April 05 2012 00:26 Cascade wrote: Wow, kindof stacked, yes! :o It would be nice in a way, if you put it last, after you spread out all your seeds and whatever ranking the tourney is using. Then you could imagine that the random placing that is left got the extra constraint of trying to not make team kills. Problem however, is that it would then be beneficial to be on a team with many other good players. For example, if Hero goes to a pretty small tourney (as favourite to win) but that doesn't have much previous seeds or ranking, most players would be very happy to be placed far away from hero, and would thus get an (imo unfair) advantage by being on liquid. And also the opposite, if another team with a lot of bad players went to the tourney, they would run a higher risk of being matched with a strong opponent. The bad players would be better of being teamless. Imo, we don't need to make the strong teams even stronger, so I do not think this should be implemented. It sucks for liquid, I feel you, but I don't think it would work in the long run to take team into account when making brackets. I kind of agree. I don't really think tournaments organisers should care about the player's teams. And I think a no teamkill policy will open the doors to some abusive situation. Like how to you define a team ? Can a player be on two teams ? What if all the best players just create a team for the tournament simply to play against less skilled opponents in the open bracket ? I kind of feel such a policy would lead to some dramas. Team A will start complaining that team B had less teamkills than them, etc.. | ||
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VirgilSC2
United States6151 Posts
On April 05 2012 00:26 Cascade wrote: Wow, kindof stacked, yes! :o It would be nice in a way, if you put it last, after you spread out all your seeds and whatever ranking the tourney is using. Then you could imagine that the random placing that is left got the extra constraint of trying to not make team kills. Problem however, is that it would then be beneficial to be on a team with many other good players. For example, if Hero goes to a pretty small tourney (as favourite to win) but that doesn't have much previous seeds or ranking, most players would be very happy to be placed far away from hero, and would thus get an (imo unfair) advantage by being on liquid. And also the opposite, if another team with a lot of bad players went to the tourney, they would run a higher risk of being matched with a strong opponent. The bad players would be better of being teamless. Imo, we don't need to make the strong teams even stronger, so I do not think this should be implemented. It sucks for liquid, I feel you, but I don't think it would work in the long run to take team into account when making brackets. I would rather them take what team the player is on into account over the arbitrary "Well, this guy is good so we should start him off vs someone bad" ranking IPL used here. Just a little interesting statistic; I counted up the Ro128 Matches and using a fairly loose judgement setting on "Will this be a close match or not?" I got: 53 ridiculously lopsided matches. 11 conceivably close matches. I was also pretty generous with what I considered "conceivably close" The matches I chose: + Show Spoiler [Ridiculously Lopsided Matches] + Leenock > Zephyr Golden > Rowrin DIMAGA > NasD PartinG > Auderned KiWiKaKi > IcedragonCF Virus > Mike Moon > MafiaCheese Oz > Kukaracha DdoRo > Light GanZi > IMBAoracle Dragon > RxNinja Classic > Stillborn HayprO > Woody (Already Forfeit-Win) HerO > DJTyrant Ret > Wind Sleep > Blink JYP > BearJewSlava qxc > Astral Sound > Garthmeister KawaiiRice > TenryuRH viOLet > mMmSiezE Annyeong > zOCHL BlinG > twttrCeaser Curious > Truman TT1 > InsaneRabbi July > Sruff MVP > Rumcake SeleCT > LookitsIan SaSe > mockturtle Squirtle > Demonlord ToD > EROhime GhostKing > CryMoar ChAnCe > silvaWare Creator > CypherX AcE > twttrNvictus State > Wailord Heart > Exiledz Drewbie > PanzerRH Bboongbboong > Papabear Axslav > wabachaw Jjakji > Heathen Sheth > RxSnoWy Crank > Prplppleatr HuK > GoldenMule KiLLeR > OrbraY ViBE > Epyon TaeJa > Detour Killer > Dalguno TLO > Samuraipanda Maru > FallenAngel CatZ > Mettaur Zenio > Duwie Illusion > JPEG + Show Spoiler [Conceivably Close Matches] + HasHe <> NoNy Heavens <> Flo Terious <> Scarlett Caliber <> Mystik Jinro <> Spades DeMusliM <> MoOk Machine <> Hawk Binski <> SyNc ThisIsJimmy <> STX Panther <> Ryung Perfect <> Future | ||
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Hunterai
Thailand842 Posts
4 From Winner Brackets Oz viOLet GhostKing Jjakji 4 From Loser Brackets Parting TaeJa SaSe HerO | ||
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Shadow_Dog
Canada427 Posts
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Purple Haze
United Kingdom200 Posts
On April 05 2012 00:43 VirgilSC2 wrote: I would rather them take what team the player is on into account over the arbitrary "Well, this guy is good so we should start him off vs someone bad" ranking IPL used here. Just a little interesting statistic; I counted up the Ro128 Matches and using a fairly loose judgement setting on "Will this be a close match or not?" I got: 53 ridiculously lopsided matches. 11 conceivably close matches. I was also pretty generous with what I considered "conceivably close" The matches I chose: + Show Spoiler + Ridiculously Lopsided Matches Leenock > Zephyr Golden > Rowrin DIMAGA > NasD PartinG > Auderned KiWiKaKi > IcedragonCF Virus > Mike Moon > MafiaCheese Oz > Kukaracha DdoRo > Light GanZi > IMBAoracle Dragon > RxNinja Classic > Stillborn HayprO > Woody (Already Forfeit-Win) HerO > DJTyrant Ret > Wind Sleep > Blink JYP > BearJewSlava qxc > Astral Sound > Garthmeister KawaiiRice > TenryuRH viOLet > mMmSiezE Annyeong > zOCHL BlinG > twttrCeaser Curious > Truman TT1 > InsaneRabbi July > Sruff MVP > Rumcake SeleCT > LookitsIan SaSe > mockturtle Squirtle > Demonlord ToD > EROhime GhostKing > CryMoar ChAnCe > silvaWare Creator > CypherX AcE > twttrNvictus State > Wailord Heart > Exiledz Drewbie > PanzerRH Bboongbboong > Papabear Axslav > wabachaw Jjakji > Heathen Sheth > RxSnoWy Crank > Prplppleatr HuK > GoldenMule KiLLeR > OrbraY ViBE > Epyon TaeJa > Detour Killer > Dalguno TLO > Samuraipanda Maru > FallenAngel CatZ > Mettaur Zenio > Duwie Illusion > JPEG + Show Spoiler + Conceivably Close Matches HasHe <> NoNy Heavens <> Flo Terious <> Scarlett Caliber <> Mystik Jinro <> Spades DeMusliM <> MoOk Machine <> Hawk Binski <> SyNc ThisIsJimmy <> STX Panther <> Ryung Perfect <> Future You must get pretty upset whenever you watch...any individual sport in the world. It's not exactly a new concept to save the closer matches for later in the tournament. I'd rather get the massacres out of the way early, and enjoy the upsets. Are the losers brackets each linked directly to their respective winners bracket, so there's no mixing of players between brackets? | ||
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m0ck
4194 Posts
On April 05 2012 00:43 VirgilSC2 wrote: I would rather them take what team the player is on into account over the arbitrary "Well, this guy is good so we should start him off vs someone bad" ranking IPL used here. Just a little interesting statistic; I counted up the Ro128 Matches and using a fairly loose judgement setting on "Will this be a close match or not?" I got: 53 ridiculously lopsided matches. 11 conceivably close matches. I was also pretty generous with what I considered "conceivably close" The matches I chose: + Show Spoiler + Ridiculously Lopsided Matches Leenock > Zephyr Golden > Rowrin DIMAGA > NasD PartinG > Auderned KiWiKaKi > IcedragonCF Virus > Mike Moon > MafiaCheese Oz > Kukaracha DdoRo > Light GanZi > IMBAoracle Dragon > RxNinja Classic > Stillborn HayprO > Woody (Already Forfeit-Win) HerO > DJTyrant Ret > Wind Sleep > Blink JYP > BearJewSlava qxc > Astral Sound > Garthmeister KawaiiRice > TenryuRH viOLet > mMmSiezE Annyeong > zOCHL BlinG > twttrCeaser Curious > Truman TT1 > InsaneRabbi July > Sruff MVP > Rumcake SeleCT > LookitsIan SaSe > mockturtle Squirtle > Demonlord ToD > EROhime GhostKing > CryMoar ChAnCe > silvaWare Creator > CypherX AcE > twttrNvictus State > Wailord Heart > Exiledz Drewbie > PanzerRH Bboongbboong > Papabear Axslav > wabachaw Jjakji > Heathen Sheth > RxSnoWy Crank > Prplppleatr HuK > GoldenMule KiLLeR > OrbraY ViBE > Epyon TaeJa > Detour Killer > Dalguno TLO > Samuraipanda Maru > FallenAngel CatZ > Mettaur Zenio > Duwie Illusion > JPEG + Show Spoiler + Conceivably Close Matches HasHe <> NoNy Heavens <> Flo Terious <> Scarlett Caliber <> Mystik Jinro <> Spades DeMusliM <> MoOk Machine <> Hawk Binski <> SyNc ThisIsJimmy <> STX Panther <> Ryung Perfect <> Future The purpose of a double-bracket qualifier is to decide the best players. Seeding players going into those brackets lessens the impact of having a good versus a bad draw. Correcting for teams makes the qualifier less fair. Which player do you move? And to which bracket? Fairness should in my opinion go before teams. Team affiliation is relatively unimportant in a single player sport. No reason to artificially heighten their importance. | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On April 05 2012 00:43 VirgilSC2 wrote: I would rather them take what team the player is on into account over the arbitrary "Well, this guy is good so we should start him off vs someone bad" ranking IPL used here. Just a little interesting statistic; I counted up the Ro128 Matches and using a fairly loose judgement setting on "Will this be a close match or not?" I got: 53 ridiculously lopsided matches. 11 conceivably close matches. I was also pretty generous with what I considered "conceivably close" The matches I chose: + Show Spoiler + Ridiculously Lopsided Matches Leenock > Zephyr Golden > Rowrin DIMAGA > NasD PartinG > Auderned KiWiKaKi > IcedragonCF Virus > Mike Moon > MafiaCheese Oz > Kukaracha DdoRo > Light GanZi > IMBAoracle Dragon > RxNinja Classic > Stillborn HayprO > Woody (Already Forfeit-Win) HerO > DJTyrant Ret > Wind Sleep > Blink JYP > BearJewSlava qxc > Astral Sound > Garthmeister KawaiiRice > TenryuRH viOLet > mMmSiezE Annyeong > zOCHL BlinG > twttrCeaser Curious > Truman TT1 > InsaneRabbi July > Sruff MVP > Rumcake SeleCT > LookitsIan SaSe > mockturtle Squirtle > Demonlord ToD > EROhime GhostKing > CryMoar ChAnCe > silvaWare Creator > CypherX AcE > twttrNvictus State > Wailord Heart > Exiledz Drewbie > PanzerRH Bboongbboong > Papabear Axslav > wabachaw Jjakji > Heathen Sheth > RxSnoWy Crank > Prplppleatr HuK > GoldenMule KiLLeR > OrbraY ViBE > Epyon TaeJa > Detour Killer > Dalguno TLO > Samuraipanda Maru > FallenAngel CatZ > Mettaur Zenio > Duwie Illusion > JPEG + Show Spoiler + Conceivably Close Matches HasHe <> NoNy Heavens <> Flo Terious <> Scarlett Caliber <> Mystik Jinro <> Spades DeMusliM <> MoOk Machine <> Hawk Binski <> SyNc ThisIsJimmy <> STX Panther <> Ryung Perfect <> Future Ok, almost all tournaments try to separate the good players though, ie match them with bad players. It is to avoid having Hero eliminate MVP in the round of 128, while some no-name advance to the finals by playing other no-names. But you are ofc allowed your opinion even if I don't agree with it. | ||
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VirgilSC2
United States6151 Posts
On April 05 2012 00:50 m0ck wrote: The purpose of a double-bracket qualifier is to decide the best players. Seeding players going into those brackets lessens the impact of having a good versus a bad draw. Correcting for teams makes the qualifier less fair. Which player do you move? And to which bracket? Fairness should in my opinion go before teams. Team affiliation is relatively unimportant in a single player sport. No reason to artificially heighten their importance. So why not just seed everyone randomly? Wouldn't that be the "fairest" option available? On April 05 2012 00:49 Purple Haze wrote: You must get pretty upset whenever you watch...any individual sport in the world. It's not exactly a new concept to save the closer matches for later in the tournament. I'd rather get the massacres out of the way early, and enjoy the upsets. Are the losers brackets each linked directly to their respective winners bracket, so there's no mixing of players between brackets? In tournaments where they "save the closer matches for later", like say NCAA's March Madness Basketball tournament. (Not an individual sport, but frankly I don't watch many individual sports) The seeds in that tournament are based off previous performance in the league.....here the rankings seem* (as I'm not aware what metric was used) to be chosen based one one person, or a group of people's idea on who is good and who is bad. | ||
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Cascade
Australia5405 Posts
On April 05 2012 00:55 VirgilSC2 wrote: So why not just seed everyone randomly? Wouldn't that be the "fairest" option available? I'm fine with people getting better seeds due to previous achievements (as is done here in IPL, and in most other tourneys), I am less fine with people getting better seeds depending on which teams they have signed a contract with. edit: but yeah, it'd be interesting to know how they decided the seeds, and tourneys should be transparent with how the seeds are done. | ||
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