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On March 15 2012 02:33 Elean wrote:
I don't think this is good for esport. At least not the way I would like esport to go.
These 11.3m are an investment, not a sponsorship. This means they want us to eventually pay it back.
MLG is investing way too much, and after that they explain to us that they need PPV to survive.
There is currently more content than people can watch. There is a competition among events,
If a compagny keep investing and loosing money, it's just bad for the scene because it prevents other events to grow.
Sundance says he wants more and more. But the scene is already saturated.
I personnaly don't want more. I prefer a modest event like homestory cup for free, than a big event like winter arena for 20$.
MLG is just creating a bubble.
if your a player do you play/practice for homestory or do you play and practice for MLG?
I think there price point is off..but the real question is do you want more viewers for advertising or do you want more $$ per person. it comes down to who do you gain and lose if you do 15 dollars instead of 20... what happens at 10?
These are the questions they have to answer/figure out. If its a quality broadcast and not just a bunch of fill time...and its done with anywhere near the quality of blizzcon...then i'd pay 20.00 for the sc2 stuff.
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On March 15 2012 04:15 Sphen5117 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 02:45 skeldark wrote:On March 15 2012 02:42 Sphen5117 wrote:On March 15 2012 02:31 skeldark wrote:On March 15 2012 01:32 TotalBiscuit wrote:On March 14 2012 23:05 Jiddra wrote:
The real test will be when the LoL audience need to pay for something. The LoL viewers are hard to value for a sponsor. They've proven more than willing to spend $5-$10 for a skin for their hero, getting them to pay for something seems far easier than getting SC2 players to pay for anything. And i am very happy about that... For you it is an industry and your job. For most people here it is not. It is something we do in our free time to have fun. Its not about making esport big or about having great business success. Its about having fun, watching and playing a game. And there is no need to spend money for this. No offense, but that's and EXTREMELY ignorant post. There's no need to spend money on it? Then there's no need for exist. It won't exist if you don't spend money. You want a product for free? Well it costs money to produce. To get such solid, unique, and wonderful entertainment, it costs money. If you don't want to pay for it, then sad to say you should have a very very limited voice in what "IT" actually is. Sure it's a hobby to you. That's fine. If you don't care if it succeeds or fails then you probably shouldn't have a say in the direction it takes, how tourneys are run, what formats are used, etc. who said i want this product? i want to see some games and play the game. No need for big pricepool, flying players around the world, or professional casters and players, to have this. And i am happy that in the sc2 community there are still people left, who care for sc2 and not for esport first. You guys think: if there is more money in it and if its bigger, its better. When i see all the drama threads and all this not sc2 related discussion in the community i think it makes it worse. But i agree with total biscuit on one point: this will move over to LOL soon. But that's the thing, you want to see games, right? I'm ASSUMING you want to see very high quality games with the most skilled of players, right? Not just constant cannon rushes, 6 pools, and lack of army control? Well to fost ther highest level of play, players have to be able to make a living playing so that they can invest the time to become that. The growth of esports is what it takes to let so many players make a living off this beautiful game. I don't question your love of the game itself, but please don't think I don't get the biggest of nerdchills when I watch amazing play. I don't think we dissagree on that, but I don't think you give credit to how necessary "esports" is for what you want. If all you want to watch is just ladder warriors duking it out, people that only play in their spare time, so that the game's strategy development is slow if not stagnant, and never realizing its full potential, thereby producing sub-par games for entertainment, then I guess go ahead. But I assumed you both want and enjoy much more.
In DOTA2 BETA (the fricken' BETA) I can watch top players duke it out, in the best quality for free. If you want players to be able to make a living off of SC2 then you should be giving your money to them and their teams instead of MLG. Hurr durr
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On March 15 2012 02:45 skeldark wrote:
who said i want this product?
i want to see some games and play the game. No need for big pricepool, flying players around the world, or professional casters and players, to have this.
And i am happy that in the sc2 community there are still people left, who care for sc2 and not for esport first.
You guys think: if there is more money in it and if its bigger, its better.
When i see all the drama threads and all this not sc2 related discussion in the community i think it makes it worse.
But i agree with total biscuit on one point: this will move over to LOL soon.
I want this product.
I never was into RTS, red alert was the last RTS i played. Last summer i heard something about big gaming tourneys and professional gaming - since FPS and fighters ( except virtua fighter ) were even further down my game interest list i naturally stumbled upon starcraft2. First watched few husky, hdstarcraft and day9 videos and then got into watching my first live event MLG Anaheim - having that kind of big event with rather ok production values and fun casting got me hooked - i bought starcraft right afterwards.
I want even better product.
There is still lot of room for improvement. I believe if tournament organizers, blizzard, casters, professional teams and players all work on improving "the product" sc2 could see million+ concurrent viewers in 2-4 years.
While not everyone wants esports to grow bad and just cares about having better game - a growth in esports can help towards improving the game. If the amount of people, who buy the game just because they were introduced to it by esports events, grows significant enough compared to "regular buyers" - blizzard starcraft2 team has better arguments to get owners to invest even more to improve SC2 years after its release - better battlenet, new custom games, extra content ( say new free missions for all WoL, HoTS and LotV after they have been released for more replayability), better ladder, better 1vs1, better 4vs4 and so on.
Why should large amounts of people who (yet) have no interest in RTS, dont understand the action on screen in tourneys be enticed to buy SC2 and its expansions just because the tourneys had better show/products and sc2 itself had more content? - is a good question.
I think my feelings towards iPad would be a semi-related analogy to explore this.
I would *kind of* like to have something to conveniently read ebooks/game manuals/browse the web with in bed/train/couch.
The "proper" device would be an ereader or a cheap tablet. But i dont want them - i want an iPad, because its nearly flawless - its touchscreen is snappy, good viewing angle IPS screen, its screen is large enough ( c-moon 6"-7" is smaller then real pocketsized books) it looks good, its small&light - i would almost buy it even if i dont actually need/want it that bad - nor understand what use is it to me, except reading stuff.
Same way, a tourney with no downtime ( or downtime *filled* with fun content ) , good audio ( volume levels equal on all streams - music/casting/game levels good etc), no video lag/hiccups, fun talented casters ( i like hearing Tastosis cast just because they sometimes fill the downtime with crazy random facts like strawberries having more potassium than bananas), great back and forth games where there is often some action happening (mostly blizzard can help making this happen more often ), huge crowds, flashy graphics and stages - if done really good, this all could captivate attention of a tons more people who have played a bit of computer/console/browser games
Which could lead into them buying the game, but if the content is not good enough ( non-social battle.net - hard time finding good custom games, lack of good casual custom games ) - they wont buy the expansion ( this is where the incentive to make the game better comes in). If esports is gets to million+ concurrent viewers, it might be worth it for blizzard to make battlenet the best place to be in - with newsfeed on the latest esports events, ingame replays/VODs of the latest hottest matches/strats etc...(this is where iPad has failed me, i just dont see any other reason to buy it except its a good product for reading stuff )
So to conclude this rant
As long as the venture money goes on improving the show and blizzard succeeds in improving the game - i find this news good for both esports and the game.
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On March 15 2012 04:59 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 04:15 Sphen5117 wrote:On March 15 2012 02:45 skeldark wrote:On March 15 2012 02:42 Sphen5117 wrote:On March 15 2012 02:31 skeldark wrote:On March 15 2012 01:32 TotalBiscuit wrote:On March 14 2012 23:05 Jiddra wrote:
The real test will be when the LoL audience need to pay for something. The LoL viewers are hard to value for a sponsor. They've proven more than willing to spend $5-$10 for a skin for their hero, getting them to pay for something seems far easier than getting SC2 players to pay for anything. And i am very happy about that... For you it is an industry and your job. For most people here it is not. It is something we do in our free time to have fun. Its not about making esport big or about having great business success. Its about having fun, watching and playing a game. And there is no need to spend money for this. No offense, but that's and EXTREMELY ignorant post. There's no need to spend money on it? Then there's no need for exist. It won't exist if you don't spend money. You want a product for free? Well it costs money to produce. To get such solid, unique, and wonderful entertainment, it costs money. If you don't want to pay for it, then sad to say you should have a very very limited voice in what "IT" actually is. Sure it's a hobby to you. That's fine. If you don't care if it succeeds or fails then you probably shouldn't have a say in the direction it takes, how tourneys are run, what formats are used, etc. who said i want this product? i want to see some games and play the game. No need for big pricepool, flying players around the world, or professional casters and players, to have this. And i am happy that in the sc2 community there are still people left, who care for sc2 and not for esport first. You guys think: if there is more money in it and if its bigger, its better. When i see all the drama threads and all this not sc2 related discussion in the community i think it makes it worse. But i agree with total biscuit on one point: this will move over to LOL soon. But that's the thing, you want to see games, right? I'm ASSUMING you want to see very high quality games with the most skilled of players, right? Not just constant cannon rushes, 6 pools, and lack of army control? Well to fost ther highest level of play, players have to be able to make a living playing so that they can invest the time to become that. The growth of esports is what it takes to let so many players make a living off this beautiful game. I don't question your love of the game itself, but please don't think I don't get the biggest of nerdchills when I watch amazing play. I don't think we dissagree on that, but I don't think you give credit to how necessary "esports" is for what you want. If all you want to watch is just ladder warriors duking it out, people that only play in their spare time, so that the game's strategy development is slow if not stagnant, and never realizing its full potential, thereby producing sub-par games for entertainment, then I guess go ahead. But I assumed you both want and enjoy much more. In DOTA2 BETA (the fricken' BETA) I can watch top players duke it out, in the best quality for free. If you want players to be able to make a living off of SC2 then you should be giving your money to them and their teams instead of MLG. Hurr durr
I am, honey, don't you worry. I only buy computer parts/accessories from companies that support teams/esports organizations.
However, what's the point of having a team if there are no competitions like MLG to win? Does a sponsor like Razer want to sponsor a team if all they're going to do is sat at home and stream? Does that return anything on Razer's investment? How does sponsoring a team help Razer if they get no representation from it?
How can your response be so vapid? I am obviously not saying that we need specifically MLG for the sake of esports. But if you give a shit about it, then it's stupid to suggest that they shouldn't be doing well.
Now you say "top" players, and that's quite possibly true, but are these players that make a living playing a game? Do they have 40 hour work-week careers ASIDE from playing Dota 2? If so, I promise you that the top end play you're seeing isn't everything it could be. If they are making a living from Dota 2 and get to play it full time, where do you think the money comes from?
NFL players aren't paid just to scrimmage each other during practice. (despite the fact that analogies are risky to use in debate, I felt this one fit.)
Is this the part of my post where I put in the "Hurr Durr" even thought I'm the one that failed to account for all factors in a situation?
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On March 15 2012 05:52 Sphen5117 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 04:59 SupLilSon wrote:On March 15 2012 04:15 Sphen5117 wrote:On March 15 2012 02:45 skeldark wrote:On March 15 2012 02:42 Sphen5117 wrote:On March 15 2012 02:31 skeldark wrote:On March 15 2012 01:32 TotalBiscuit wrote:On March 14 2012 23:05 Jiddra wrote:
The real test will be when the LoL audience need to pay for something. The LoL viewers are hard to value for a sponsor. They've proven more than willing to spend $5-$10 for a skin for their hero, getting them to pay for something seems far easier than getting SC2 players to pay for anything. And i am very happy about that... For you it is an industry and your job. For most people here it is not. It is something we do in our free time to have fun. Its not about making esport big or about having great business success. Its about having fun, watching and playing a game. And there is no need to spend money for this. No offense, but that's and EXTREMELY ignorant post. There's no need to spend money on it? Then there's no need for exist. It won't exist if you don't spend money. You want a product for free? Well it costs money to produce. To get such solid, unique, and wonderful entertainment, it costs money. If you don't want to pay for it, then sad to say you should have a very very limited voice in what "IT" actually is. Sure it's a hobby to you. That's fine. If you don't care if it succeeds or fails then you probably shouldn't have a say in the direction it takes, how tourneys are run, what formats are used, etc. who said i want this product? i want to see some games and play the game. No need for big pricepool, flying players around the world, or professional casters and players, to have this. And i am happy that in the sc2 community there are still people left, who care for sc2 and not for esport first. You guys think: if there is more money in it and if its bigger, its better. When i see all the drama threads and all this not sc2 related discussion in the community i think it makes it worse. But i agree with total biscuit on one point: this will move over to LOL soon. But that's the thing, you want to see games, right? I'm ASSUMING you want to see very high quality games with the most skilled of players, right? Not just constant cannon rushes, 6 pools, and lack of army control? Well to fost ther highest level of play, players have to be able to make a living playing so that they can invest the time to become that. The growth of esports is what it takes to let so many players make a living off this beautiful game. I don't question your love of the game itself, but please don't think I don't get the biggest of nerdchills when I watch amazing play. I don't think we dissagree on that, but I don't think you give credit to how necessary "esports" is for what you want. If all you want to watch is just ladder warriors duking it out, people that only play in their spare time, so that the game's strategy development is slow if not stagnant, and never realizing its full potential, thereby producing sub-par games for entertainment, then I guess go ahead. But I assumed you both want and enjoy much more. In DOTA2 BETA (the fricken' BETA) I can watch top players duke it out, in the best quality for free. If you want players to be able to make a living off of SC2 then you should be giving your money to them and their teams instead of MLG. Hurr durr I am, honey, don't you worry. I only buy computer parts/accessories from companies that support teams/esports organizations. However, what's the point of having a team if there are no competitions like MLG to win? Does a sponsor like Razer want to sponsor a team if all they're going to do is sat at home and stream? Does that return anything on Razer's investment? How does sponsoring a team help Razer if they get no representation from it? How can your response be so vapid? I am obviously not saying that we need specifically MLG for the sake of esports. But if you give a shit about it, then it's stupid to suggest that they shouldn't be doing well. Now you say "top" players, and that's quite possibly true, but are these players that make a living playing a game? Do they have 40 hour work-week careers ASIDE from playing Dota 2? If so, I promise you that the top end play you're seeing isn't everything it could be. If they are making a living from Dota 2 and get to play it full time, where do you think the money comes from? NFL players aren't paid just to scrimmage each other during practice. (despite the fact that analogies are risky to use in debate, I felt this one fit.) Is this the part of my post where I put in the "Hurr Durr" even thought I'm the one that failed to account for all factors in a situation?
What factors in what situation? I think you've lost me, as well as yourself. Bottom line, you said not throwing your money at "e-sports" companies will lead to the extinction of SC2. As many have pointed out, that's completely false and many video game communities existed and continue to exist without large corporate sponsors or hundreds of thousands of spectators.
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great, MLG has more debts and everybody is happy about it.
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On March 15 2012 02:45 skeldark wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 02:42 Sphen5117 wrote:On March 15 2012 02:31 skeldark wrote:On March 15 2012 01:32 TotalBiscuit wrote:On March 14 2012 23:05 Jiddra wrote:
The real test will be when the LoL audience need to pay for something. The LoL viewers are hard to value for a sponsor. They've proven more than willing to spend $5-$10 for a skin for their hero, getting them to pay for something seems far easier than getting SC2 players to pay for anything. And i am very happy about that... For you it is an industry and your job. For most people here it is not. It is something we do in our free time to have fun. Its not about making esport big or about having great business success. Its about having fun, watching and playing a game. And there is no need to spend money for this. No offense, but that's and EXTREMELY ignorant post. There's no need to spend money on it? Then there's no need for exist. It won't exist if you don't spend money. You want a product for free? Well it costs money to produce. To get such solid, unique, and wonderful entertainment, it costs money. If you don't want to pay for it, then sad to say you should have a very very limited voice in what "IT" actually is. Sure it's a hobby to you. That's fine. If you don't care if it succeeds or fails then you probably shouldn't have a say in the direction it takes, how tourneys are run, what formats are used, etc. who said i want this product? i want to see some games and play the game. No need for big pricepool, flying players around the world, or professional casters and players, to have this. And i am happy that in the sc2 community there are still people left, who care for sc2 and not for esport first. You guys think if there is more money in it and if its bigger its better. When i see all the drama threads and all this not sc2 related discussion in the community i think it makes it worse.
I think you actually speak without thinking about the consequences of what you are saying. It's pretty clear you don't really care about the quality of games and innovation in SC2. Without big prize pool and sponsors , there is no incentive for players to work on their game and improve, and the game would have never progressed beyond what we saw in GSL 1 (1 base all ins lol). Did you actually "enjoy" watching those games? Would you still "enjoy" watching those types of games today? If you do, then I feel really sorry for you.
Without sponsorship and big money most players would play for a couple of hours and then log out because they have no incentive to try and go professional or go to some other game. This leads to an overall stagnation in skill level. Look at the current foreign BW scene for instance. All the skilled players have left for SC2, and what you have left are folks who aren't as good as the older big named pros. Eventually less and less people will pick up the game, and while a few people will still be remaining and play the game, it will most likely be like a ghost town.
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On March 15 2012 06:08 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 05:52 Sphen5117 wrote:On March 15 2012 04:59 SupLilSon wrote:On March 15 2012 04:15 Sphen5117 wrote:On March 15 2012 02:45 skeldark wrote:On March 15 2012 02:42 Sphen5117 wrote:On March 15 2012 02:31 skeldark wrote:On March 15 2012 01:32 TotalBiscuit wrote:On March 14 2012 23:05 Jiddra wrote:
The real test will be when the LoL audience need to pay for something. The LoL viewers are hard to value for a sponsor. They've proven more than willing to spend $5-$10 for a skin for their hero, getting them to pay for something seems far easier than getting SC2 players to pay for anything. And i am very happy about that... For you it is an industry and your job. For most people here it is not. It is something we do in our free time to have fun. Its not about making esport big or about having great business success. Its about having fun, watching and playing a game. And there is no need to spend money for this. No offense, but that's and EXTREMELY ignorant post. There's no need to spend money on it? Then there's no need for exist. It won't exist if you don't spend money. You want a product for free? Well it costs money to produce. To get such solid, unique, and wonderful entertainment, it costs money. If you don't want to pay for it, then sad to say you should have a very very limited voice in what "IT" actually is. Sure it's a hobby to you. That's fine. If you don't care if it succeeds or fails then you probably shouldn't have a say in the direction it takes, how tourneys are run, what formats are used, etc. who said i want this product? i want to see some games and play the game. No need for big pricepool, flying players around the world, or professional casters and players, to have this. And i am happy that in the sc2 community there are still people left, who care for sc2 and not for esport first. You guys think: if there is more money in it and if its bigger, its better. When i see all the drama threads and all this not sc2 related discussion in the community i think it makes it worse. But i agree with total biscuit on one point: this will move over to LOL soon. But that's the thing, you want to see games, right? I'm ASSUMING you want to see very high quality games with the most skilled of players, right? Not just constant cannon rushes, 6 pools, and lack of army control? Well to fost ther highest level of play, players have to be able to make a living playing so that they can invest the time to become that. The growth of esports is what it takes to let so many players make a living off this beautiful game. I don't question your love of the game itself, but please don't think I don't get the biggest of nerdchills when I watch amazing play. I don't think we dissagree on that, but I don't think you give credit to how necessary "esports" is for what you want. If all you want to watch is just ladder warriors duking it out, people that only play in their spare time, so that the game's strategy development is slow if not stagnant, and never realizing its full potential, thereby producing sub-par games for entertainment, then I guess go ahead. But I assumed you both want and enjoy much more. In DOTA2 BETA (the fricken' BETA) I can watch top players duke it out, in the best quality for free. If you want players to be able to make a living off of SC2 then you should be giving your money to them and their teams instead of MLG. Hurr durr I am, honey, don't you worry. I only buy computer parts/accessories from companies that support teams/esports organizations. However, what's the point of having a team if there are no competitions like MLG to win? Does a sponsor like Razer want to sponsor a team if all they're going to do is sat at home and stream? Does that return anything on Razer's investment? How does sponsoring a team help Razer if they get no representation from it? How can your response be so vapid? I am obviously not saying that we need specifically MLG for the sake of esports. But if you give a shit about it, then it's stupid to suggest that they shouldn't be doing well. Now you say "top" players, and that's quite possibly true, but are these players that make a living playing a game? Do they have 40 hour work-week careers ASIDE from playing Dota 2? If so, I promise you that the top end play you're seeing isn't everything it could be. If they are making a living from Dota 2 and get to play it full time, where do you think the money comes from? NFL players aren't paid just to scrimmage each other during practice. (despite the fact that analogies are risky to use in debate, I felt this one fit.) Is this the part of my post where I put in the "Hurr Durr" even thought I'm the one that failed to account for all factors in a situation? What factors in what situation? I think you've lost me, as well as yourself. Bottom line, you said not throwing your money at "e-sports" companies will lead to the extinction of SC2. As many have pointed out, that's completely false and many video game communities existed and continue to exist without large corporate sponsors or hundreds of thousands of spectators.
The situation of MLG in relation to Esports, in relation to the game itself.
I did not say that not throwing money at esports companies will lead to the extinction of SC2(as a game, I'm assuming). At all. You're right, that's false. That's why I didn't say it. You are wrong.
I will re-state myself in even more depth then:
Blizzard will still be around if MLG dies. Easy to see.
People like the game of SC2 itself, regardless of the competitive side (such as yourself and skeldark). Easy to see.
HOWEVER. For those of us who enjoy watching the game played at it's highest level, as a SPORT, beyond just someone who's "really good on the ladder when they get off work in the evenings", the fate of MLG (or IPL, NASL, GSL, etc) is important.
If you only care about the game itself and get enough enjoyment from watching casual play, why do you care? I assume you didn't mind that MLG charged 20 dollars then, becuase you don't need MLG-quality games to get your jollies.
It's a bit irresponsible to want to watch this beautiful game played at the level that only pros can play it at, but then not want them to have the financial backing to do so.
To want them to have the financial backing to do so means you want teams to have sponsors, that you want tournament organizations to have investors(or other support), and therefore for the players to be able to make a living playing the game rather than spending 40 hours a week in the cubicle I am typing this from.
If you don't care about the competitive scene at all and simply like the game as a game rather than as a sport, that is your choice, but then why do you care about any of this? If you do care about the competitive scene and the quality of entertainment it provides, why wouldn't you want MLG to be successful (whether or not MLG is making correct business decisions, etc is besides the point on this)?
The last two questions are more general, rather than directed at just you, SupLilSon. Directing them at you would be making assumptions, and I'm not going to lurk your post history to get your entire view on this.
Also, thanks for not putting in an insult at the end. I apologize for my own.
EDIT: Grammar n' shitz.
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Awesome, they deserve some more funding
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On March 15 2012 06:14 CaptainApe wrote:
great, MLG has more debts and everybody is happy about it.
As I stated many pages back, this is an equity round of financing, not debt. MLG has no more debt from this than they did before this.
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On March 15 2012 06:54 mathsucks wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 06:14 CaptainApe wrote:
great, MLG has more debts and everybody is happy about it. As I stated many pages back, this is an equity round of financing, not debt. MLG has no more debt from this than they did before this.
Yeah, right, the investors will never want their money back (+interest)...
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On March 15 2012 06:57 CaptainApe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 06:54 mathsucks wrote:On March 15 2012 06:14 CaptainApe wrote:
great, MLG has more debts and everybody is happy about it. As I stated many pages back, this is an equity round of financing, not debt. MLG has no more debt from this than they did before this. Yeah, right, the investors will never want their money back (+interest)...
It is called an investment which is a gamble, they might never see their money back.
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On March 15 2012 06:57 CaptainApe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 06:54 mathsucks wrote:On March 15 2012 06:14 CaptainApe wrote:
great, MLG has more debts and everybody is happy about it. As I stated many pages back, this is an equity round of financing, not debt. MLG has no more debt from this than they did before this. Yeah, right, the investors will never want their money back (+interest)...
Equity means they are buying into ownership of the company. They are depending on profitability for their investment to pay off, otherwise it wont.
Debt means they give money and expect it returned with interest at a certain time. This investment vehicle just requires the company to repay their debts and has no dilution of ownership.
True story.
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This just means more funding for MLG Ultimate Gaming House ^_^
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Looks like is who spiel about MLG going under and how he needs 20 dollars for the event and how he had to fuck gold members over was a big joke, which we all fell for...
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On March 15 2012 04:58 purecarnagge wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 02:33 Elean wrote:
I don't think this is good for esport. At least not the way I would like esport to go.
These 11.3m are an investment, not a sponsorship. This means they want us to eventually pay it back.
MLG is investing way too much, and after that they explain to us that they need PPV to survive.
There is currently more content than people can watch. There is a competition among events,
If a compagny keep investing and loosing money, it's just bad for the scene because it prevents other events to grow.
Sundance says he wants more and more. But the scene is already saturated.
I personnaly don't want more. I prefer a modest event like homestory cup for free, than a big event like winter arena for 20$.
MLG is just creating a bubble. if your a player do you play/practice for homestory or do you play and practice for MLG? I think there price point is off..but the real question is do you want more viewers for advertising or do you want more $$ per person. it comes down to who do you gain and lose if you do 15 dollars instead of 20... what happens at 10? These are the questions they have to answer/figure out. If its a quality broadcast and not just a bunch of fill time...and its done with anywhere near the quality of blizzcon...then i'd pay 20.00 for the sc2 stuff.
I don't really get your question.
A simple player don't play/practice for neither homestory nor MLG.
A pro gamer practice for potentially any tournament.
Now it's clear that MLG is one of the least interesting tournament for foreign player, the fact that MLG pays the flight for 30 players from all over the world increases the difficulty of the competition for a given prize pool.
For progaming teams, homestory cup is probably better, because there are more viewers.
Just compare HSC4 with winter arena. The ro8 of HSC4 has top tier players just like winter arena.
So for people like me who have more than enough content with ro8-BO5, ro4-bo5, and finals bo7, winter arena has nothing more to offer.
And I would definately pay less for MLG than for HSC4 because MLG shedule is plainly awfull for europeans, but that's not the point.
The point is for people who don't want to watch 20 hours of starcraft in the same week end, it's much better to have a smaller event.
That's why I don't want esport to go in the direction MLG is taking. There is no need to fly over 25 people from other continents, just half a dozen is more than fine. And I really prefer sponsors paying for the event than myself.
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On March 15 2012 01:32 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2012 23:05 Jiddra wrote:
The real test will be when the LoL audience need to pay for something. The LoL viewers are hard to value for a sponsor. They've proven more than willing to spend $5-$10 for a skin for their hero, getting them to pay for something seems far easier than getting SC2 players to pay for anything.
You don't know that the people watching are buying skins or just using the free version of LoL. And ingame content can not be compared to paying 20 dollars for 3 days of viewing some games, buy a new computer or joing the army.
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On March 15 2012 06:54 mathsucks wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 06:14 CaptainApe wrote:
great, MLG has more debts and everybody is happy about it. As I stated many pages back, this is an equity round of financing, not debt. MLG has no more debt from this than they did before this.
Wish more people would understand this.
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On March 14 2012 03:49 crms wrote:
*paging business experts*
So.. with seamingly all of their revenue coming from VC, is this good? I know many companies start up with VC and eventually get a sustainable model so they can stand on their feet, the VC's get a nice ROI and everyone walks into the sunset.
However, MLG has been around 10+ years (correct?) and it seems like they still can't generate enough internal revenue (is this the correct term?) to be sustainable. Eventually VC dries up, right? What is so different from the dreaded 'sponsorship model' and the 'VC model'? It seems about the same to a laymen like me.
I think some of the big risks MLG has taken lately like a high priced PPV is perhaps due to itchy VC's wanting to see some type of return or proof that MLG can be profitable?
What kind of longevity does MLG have if all of their funding is coming from VCs? The fact that they 'sold' another 11.3 (want 13) million in VC a good sign? Good because investors still care about MLG and think it's worth while? Or a bad sign, that MLG still can't be profitable on their own and still need to reach out to VCs?
Thanks in advance if any expert can answer my queries.
<3
VCs are not providing revenue to MLG, they are providing funding which is just a different form of capital. As you mention, MLG needs this round of funding to continue operations until they are self-sufficient, so I would consider it a good thing that they are getting access to capital. The downside is that you probably have board members from various VCs that funded it who might make decisions that viewers won't necessarily like. PPV is one feature that potentially emerged from VC management intervention.
The fact that MLG received another round of funding may be a signal that there is potential for eSports to evolve into a profitable business (or someone at MLG is good at writing compelling pitch decks). I am not bothered by the fact that MLG has been around for 10+ years because 3G/4G networks were not around/prevalent until about 3 years ago. There's definitely a rise for streaming content as well as VODs, so that entire market will grow and eSports can ride along with it.
At some point, MLG will need to demonstrate that they can be profitable (or at least generate good returns from an IPO) or investors will start pulling out. PPV was not well-received by the fans so I hope they have some other product offerings in their pipeline.
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EPT
