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On March 10 2012 02:10 bonifaceviii wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 02:08 pwnopotamus wrote:
I believe it's time to start looking for a new line of work in a completely different industry. No e-sports event with any sense whatsoever will ever going to hire you again. It simply won't be worth it. The fact of the matter is, you offended a lot of people that will refuse to watch you, boycott any event you're associated with, and complain to sponsors and management about your involvement.
You may also want to think about changing your name (your REAL name). Your racist comments and reputation will follow you forever, as a simple Google search will always turn up results based on this incident. Good luck trying to find another job. I think you mistook the teamliquid forums for an application for a Shakespeare troupe. It's an easy mistake to make, though, good luck with your auditions!
I'm not trying to be melodramatic, I'm serious. I'm an employer myself, and if I saw someone have a history of racist comments, I would throw their resume out immediately. Why bother hiring someone that has a history of some BS like that when there are plenty of other people you could hire with no baggage?
If I worked in e-sports, this would be magnified 10x! Why would any company hire Orb to cast for them, given his current history? Some people may not care and have forgiven him, but I guarantee there are some people that simply will refuse to watch him, as well as complain to sponsors about his involvement. (I'm not one of those people, by the way...but some people like to be mini-activists like that.) Hell, you saw what happened with Katu and Playhem. All that caster did was joke about Dragon stream cheating. You think sponsors care about that? I guarantee you a company like Monster or SteelSeries cares more about a racist comment than some e-sports drama. But viewership went down and Katu was fired anyway. He just wasn't worth the trouble.
I will be very surprised if Orb ever casts again for a public tournament. He's not that popular, he's not bringing in any new fans or viewers, and he certainly has the potential to alienate some viewers (as well as the potential to raise the ire from some sponsors). From a business perspective, it just isn't worth the trouble to work with him.
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Nobody thinks you are a racist.
I do.
Really dude? Troll right?
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On March 10 2012 02:24 rilma wrote:I do.
Surely you havn't lived such a sheltered existance that you don't understand not all racial language is used in a racial context?
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Wow, you guys in the USA blow all this racism stuff way out of proportions. I know it's different than here in Europe, BUT I do believe your reactions are even more serious than they would be if Orb beat someone up in real life...
I really do believe an apology is all that is required, especially if he was not in a right state of mind.
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no need to drop the "N"-Bomb when you trying to work for an E-Sport Clan/Team whatever.
Glad Orb wrote at least an Apology. I dont like how people say..."get over it...everyone does it"
I dont think that it is difficult to stop raging/bming at people...at least when you are trying to represent a team.
One last point...no place for racism....not for venting/bming etc.
Hope you stay at EG etc...
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On March 10 2012 02:31 mlspmatt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 02:24 rilma wrote:On March 09 2012 13:19 sam!zdat wrote:
Nobody thinks you are a racist.
. I do. Surely you havn't lived such a sheltered existance that you don't understand not all racial language is used in a racial context?
maybe he didnt grow up in a place where saying racial slur is considered normal. who decided it was ok to say the n word when raging in a video game?
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you are who you are , racist or not. as long as you didn't say it in front of camera i don't see what the big deal is.
Koreans eat dogs and we hate for it, but its in their culture, same as the N-word in the U.S. sure we can ban it from tv/movie etc but removing it entirely? ppl are just kidding themselves.
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On March 10 2012 02:40 skyflyfish wrote:
you are who you are , racist or not. as long as you didn't say it in front of camera i don't see what the big deal is.
Koreans eat dogs and we hate for it, but its in their culture, same as the N-word in the U.S. sure we can ban it from tv/movie etc but removing it entirely? ppl are just kidding themselves.
Well, that's the first "it's America's culture to use the word nigger" argument I've seen in this thread. Thanks for something new I guess?
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On March 10 2012 02:33 cutler wrote:
no need to drop the "N"-Bomb when you trying to work for an E-Sport Clan/Team whatever.
Glad Orb wrote at least an Apology. I dont like how people say..."get over it...everyone does it"
I dont think that it is difficult to stop raging/bming at people...at least when you are trying to represent a team.
One last point...no place for racism....not for venting/bming etc.
Hope you stay at EG etc...
The problem here isn't whether or not racism is okay. I think the vast majority of us, at least, agree that it's unacceptable. The reason this argument is stupid and that Orb shouldn't have to apologize is because using the word "nigger" doesn't make you racist. At all. I mean, I can say "the most normal thing in the world" but that doesn't make me Day[9], if you get my point.
Words are a portal to meaning but they themselves are meaningless without context. An angry gamer calling his opponent a "nigger" is no more a racist than I am a homosexual for telling my male friends "fuck you." Clearly I'm not actually suggesting a desire to have sex with them, and everyone understands that, but the moment someone uses "nigger" in a sentence they're branded as a racist. That's just wrong.
EDIT:
On March 10 2012 02:40 aintz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 02:31 mlspmatt wrote:On March 10 2012 02:24 rilma wrote:On March 09 2012 13:19 sam!zdat wrote:
Nobody thinks you are a racist.
. I do. Surely you havn't lived such a sheltered existance that you don't understand not all racial language is used in a racial context? maybe he didnt grow up in a place where saying racial slur is considered normal. who decided it was ok to say the n word when raging in a video game?
People have negative rights, not positive ones. Rather than saying "it's only okay to do something if it's decided it's okay," we should say "it's only not okay to do something if it's decided it's not okay." So here, no one had to decide it's okay... it just is. If we as a community decide it's "not okay," THEN we can call him out on it. Sadly, deciding that it's not okay is rather pathetic and short-sighted.
EDIT2: Also, "nigger" is only a racial slur historically. Like I said, people use "fuck" to mean a LOT more than just "sexual intercourse" and that's normal. Why can't we use "nigger" to mean a lot more than "inferior black person?"
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On March 09 2012 13:16 Silentness wrote:
As a black Starcraft 2 player, I respect your apology decision. We all make mistakes. Hopefully EG will accept you back soon.
As a white Starcraft 2 player, I will follow and respect whatever the black Starcraft 2 players will say on this matter.
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I'm willing to bet, that if you look hard enough, you could find a vod, replay, text, forum posting, whatever from each and every member of EG that could be taken to be extremely offensive from one group or another. Espesically if you look from before they worked for the team. Idra says faggot, others say bitch or retard. I've even heard the ever manner Machine say "that's retarded" on stream while working for EG. Guess what? I find that highly offensive as someone with a mentally handicapped older sister. Why is it more offensive to say nigger? Why are do you jump to the defense of blacks and allow women and gays to deal with "hate-language" on their own? Who are you to choose which is more severe? If you allow one and not the other you are nothing more than a hypocrite and to me, that's one of the worst type of people. If you fire orb for language used before he worked for you, you have to fire Machine and Idra for language used while they worked for you.
If your reading this Machine, no I don't think you should be fired, but neither should Orb. I'm just trying to make a point about hypocrisy and how ridiculously unfair this whole thing is.
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I'm pretty sure everyone here knows that 99% of people who use the 'N word' on the internet are just using it as a replaceable curse word for dark comedy purposes.
Its 2012, not 1955. The history of a word matters much less than the context and intention behind it.
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On March 10 2012 02:51 TritaN wrote:
I'm pretty sure everyone here knows that 99% of people who use the 'N word' on the internet are just using it as a replaceable curse word for dark comedy purposes.
Its 2012, not 1955. The history of a word matters much less than the context and intention behind it.
and you realize more than half of those people really mean it in a racist way. or are you just that naive.
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best of luck moving forward.
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On March 10 2012 02:49 Magic_Mike wrote:
I'm willing to bet, that if you look hard enough, you could find a vod, replay, text, forum posting, whatever from each and every member of EG that could be taken to be extremely offensive from one group or another. Espesically if you look from before they worked for the team. Idra says faggot, others say bitch or retard. I've even heard the ever manner Machine say "that's retarded" on stream while working for EG. Guess what? I find that highly offensive as someone with a mentally handicapped older sister. Why is it more offensive to say nigger? Why are do you jump to the defense of blacks and allow women and gays to deal with "hate-language" on their own? Who are you to choose which is more severe? If you allow one and not the other you are nothing more than a hypocrite and to me, that's one of the worst type of people. If you fire orb for language used before he worked for you, you have to fire Machine and Idra for language used while they worked for you.
If your reading this Machine, no I don't think you should be fired, but neither should Orb. I'm just trying to make a point about hypocrisy and how ridiculously unfair this whole thing is.
InControl uses questionable comedy a lot when characterizing other nations and cultures. I'm sure many people think it's offensive and not funny -- I have at times. But do I think he should be fired? No.
I agree with your point. Firing Orb sets a standard EG can't possibly live up to if they want to remain consistant -- but this wasn't about any of that. EG acted like a bunch of corperate pussies and fired a guy, made a big deal about it when none was needed. A simple apology from Orb on air would have done it.
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On March 10 2012 02:54 aintz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 02:51 TritaN wrote:
I'm pretty sure everyone here knows that 99% of people who use the 'N word' on the internet are just using it as a replaceable curse word for dark comedy purposes.
Its 2012, not 1955. The history of a word matters much less than the context and intention behind it. and you realize more than half of those people really mean it in a racist way. or are you just that naive.
Considering that I'm constantly around many, many people who DO use it - all of whom are white or asian, and none of whom are actually racist - I'm pretty sure you are the one who is mistaken.
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Really brave of you to apologize I wish you much success for getting back in!
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This really never should have been an issue at all and it's actually highly unfortunate that a series of douchebags searching for instances of this hurt this guys personal life/career, frankly. There's a point where trolling someone stops being alright and I'd say this meets it. This is the internet. This is 2012. This is an incredibly stupid and unfortunate situation.
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On March 10 2012 02:55 mlspmatt wrote:
InControl uses questionable comedy a lot when characterizing other nations and cultures. I'm sure many people think it's offensive and not funny -- I have at times. But do I think he should be fired? No.
I agree with your point. Firing Orb sets a standard EG can't possibly live up to if they want to remain consistant -- but this wasn't about any of that. EG acted like a bunch of corperate pussies and fired a guy, made a big deal about it when none was needed. A simple apology from Orb on air would have done it.
I agree that this was EG acting like corporate 'pussies' (offensive), but I disagree that no big deal was needed. Orb lied about it, and EG had to defend him.
Companies generally don't like covering up for the lies of their employees. If orb had been honest from the get go (he's still not being honest, by the way) EG could have appropriately handled the situation. orb put EG in a situation where the only choice was to fire him.
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I have to wonder how many people whining about the use of the word "nigger" are actually black; instead, I envision a ton of white, pompous, overzealous people that feel good when they can "take a stand" for something that's not about them at all. They're only interested in looking "good" or morally absolved to the general public.
Concentrate on that which involves you, and leave the affected people to voice their opinion. Stop clamouring for attention.
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EPT
