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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST |
On March 13 2012 08:43 divito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 08:28 plogamer wrote:
Interchangable insult? Where is this logic coming from? Since when did the N-word become an all-purpose insult? Not sure what rosy and picket-fenced area you live in, but my area of Canada isn't so naive. It's been interchangeable for quite some time now, to people that are perfectly normal and not racist.
Bahahaha. Nothing as racist as treating a racial slur as "normal". You live in a very racist area, my friend.
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i understand why EG don't want someone with so much "bad press" representing them, and i understand and accept why casters are expected to be hyper-PC all the time, since they are so "client facing" as it were.
but a post like this, condemning everyone who uses the word nigger or faggot is too much. just because you believe the words are hateful and despicable, does not make them so. indeed, this is even addressed in the OP; you say you don't expect everyone to subscribe to your ideals, but then you expect everyone to. you ask us to forgive orb, without questioning whether we agree he was in the wrong first.
in my mind, forcing this crap down our throats is drawing awfully close to the people who propagate racism, just in the opposite direction. it's more socially acceptable to be this sort of extremist, yes, but does that make it any more "right"?
edit: of course these are just my opinions, i should probably have mentioned that already
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On March 13 2012 08:50 plogamer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 08:43 divito wrote:On March 13 2012 08:28 plogamer wrote:
Interchangable insult? Where is this logic coming from? Since when did the N-word become an all-purpose insult? Not sure what rosy and picket-fenced area you live in, but my area of Canada isn't so naive. It's been interchangeable for quite some time now, to people that are perfectly normal and not racist. Bahahaha. Nothing as racist as treating a racial slur as "normal". You live in a very racist area, my friend.
By "my area of Canada" he actually means "my friend's basement in some suburb in Ass Crack , Ontario."
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On March 13 2012 08:50 plogamer wrote:
Bahahaha. Nothing as racist as treating a racial slur as "normal". You live in a very racist area, my friend.
Why do people always seem to forget what context means? Like many others have said, it's interchangeable, and has been for a long time. It's quite prevalent, and not limited to "racial slurs," there are lots of other "obscenities" that are used in place of or in conjunction with describing acts/situations/etc.
On March 13 2012 09:13 Defacer wrote:
By "my area of Canada" he actually means "my friend's basement in some suburb in Ass Crack , Ontario."
Close; but sadly no. The classic fallacies never fail to rear their heads when all is lost.
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For starters, It's very big of EG to publicly acknowledge this whole incident and respond in a prompt manner. +1
HOWEVER, what Orb said was (I think) taken a bit too far, by both the community and especially EG.
I understand that what he said was incredibly offensive to some people, but at the time, he wasn't your employee, nor did he represent the EG brand. So why do his past actions suddenly effect his position in EG? I can understand you don't want to be associated with that sort of language, but perhaps a formal community apology would have been better?
It's kind of like if I stole a toy from a grocery store when I was 8. Later in life I work there, and somehow someone finds out that a decade ago I stole a 99cent toy, and I was fired. Sounds ridiculous right?
Sums it up pretty well...
This confuses me as i think quite a lot of what Idra does/says is incredibly offensive. Perhaps not so racially degrading, but what about his actions Vs Huk, on stage in front of thousands of streamers??? Flipping your opponent off on stage/camera is offensive, not only to your opponent, but it displays a lack of courtesy to other professional e-athletes in general.
I could go on about some of the things Idra says/does and gets away with because he is SC2 'Bay boy'...calling other players trash etc. Why are these not frowned upon as unsportsmanlike/unprofessional???
I will continue to watch and support EG, but I do believe you went a little overboard...
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On March 13 2012 09:45 divito wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 08:50 plogamer wrote:
Bahahaha. Nothing as racist as treating a racial slur as "normal". You live in a very racist area, my friend. Why do people always seem to forget what context means? Like many others have said, it's interchangeable, and has been for a long time. It's quite prevalent, and not limited to "racial slurs," there are lots of other "obscenities" that are used in place of or in conjunction with describing acts/situations/etc. Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 09:13 Defacer wrote:
By "my area of Canada" he actually means "my friend's basement in some suburb in Ass Crack , Ontario."
Close; but sadly no. The classic fallacies never fail to rear their heads when all is lost.
I come from an Ass Crack in Ontario. I know the score 
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Why are so many ppl saying "It shouldn't matter, he said it BEFORE he was employed by EG".
So basically you are saying that any mass murderer or raper could be employed by any elementary school ? If that's your opinion - ok, I'm sure many others disagree. Just like on this topic. It was right that orb's career got destroyed. Such a bad mannered, narcissistic person he is, it was just a matter of time until something like this would happen. Justice was dealt. Personalities like his are not needed in our community. Any person who liked him obviously has never seen his real face.
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I think him saying a racial slur is nowhere near the same thing as him killing or raping someone Zwuckel, your going off on the deep end there. He said something very offensive and dumb before he was hired by a company, if there that picky about a person they should do crazy amounts of research before taking them on. It was very immature and in poor taste that Orb ever said things like that openly (or at all) but every person in the world has skeletons in there closet, this was just some stupid witch hunt from how I am reading it.
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I doubt this will change anything in the long run. Observe todays chat from a pro player's stream.
+ Show Spoiler +heuristicantics: whhhat!
skurrrrrrt: lol i thought so.
arsenalmark: The SC2 is just a bonus extra
heuristicantics: why is fragraptor no longer mod?
Mod Subscriber tweeto: because
skurrrrrrt: i only plugged in my headphones because i thought he was commentating what he was doing
cute_zergling: he used the n word
Mod Subscriber tweeto: he said the n word too much and got fired
» LOL
fragraptor: I was too busy being tweeto's bitch
miklooo: he was hitler in disguise
heuristicantics:
Mod Subscriber tweeto: damn you cute zergling
skurrrrrrt: who?
Mod Subscriber tweeto: LOL
fragraptor: ROFL
cute_zergling: haha :D
skurrrrrrt: are we not allowed to cuss?
Mod Subscriber tweeto: fuck no you are not allowed to
Mod epiclulz101: haha
shaggysham: well fuck that
skurrrrrrt: well fuck.
pinhead84: well
Mod Subscriber tweeto: well shit cunt balls fuck ass
fragraptor: fuck that shit my nigger bro
cute_zergling: %^*$ that
dunkz28: fuck
Mod Subscriber tweeto: LOL
acidzap: lol
skurrrrrrt: lol
nadshots: just be carefull to never say ***
skurrrrrrt: you guys
Mod Subscriber tweeto: niggerfest 2K12?
headshothankx: fuck nigger why cant i fucking swear? thats fucking bullshit
fragraptor: we like to keep it to banning the message not the words
skurrrrrrt: damn lost both is queens
Mod Subscriber tweeto: i hate the tattoo itch so much
fragraptor: but if you are going to say something just for the purpose of trolling, well ya we will stop it.
giggity_giggity_goooo: wheres my nigga orb?
Mod Subscriber tweeto: LOL
cute_zergling: lol
Mod Subscriber tweeto: orb made some special risks
fragraptor: +500 giggty for correct context
abcdrjp: tweeto, at least its not scabies
nadshots: U like queens? I make you some more.
skurrrrrrt: rofl...
fuscoko: rofl @ this nigger talk..
scrublol: ouch
m4x30000: fuck.
acidzap: ((( CATZ
Mod Subscriber tweeto: i think orb getting fired will never get old
unitedbk: uoch
fragraptor: now that is riding the line >.>
acidzap: why u lose mutas to those fungals
skurrrrrrt: nigga mutas got caught
metalhydra: oh noes
Mod noobcube88: God, TvZ is so fuin
» fun*
skurrrrrrt: sarcasm
fragraptor: ok guys don't push it
Mod Subscriber tweeto: shut up noobcube
cute_zergling: like i said yesterday, i hope orb goes on a huge racist tirade on SOTG wednesday
Mod noobcube88: It's so fun to drop everywhere
skurrrrrrt: whos orb
cute_zergling: just because we all expect a fluffy apology
unitedbk: is anyone following the drama about ME3 endings ?
fragraptor: fucking noobcube always ruining our fun
Mod noobcube88: I just beat my brother in a TvZ
Mod Subscriber tweeto: what about it united?
fuscoko: orb is the guy with huge orbs in his pants
Mod noobcube88: BMRaptor
legendzawk: stream cheater
fuscoko: who got fired for his general orb flexing
Mod Subscriber tweeto: blamefrag 2K12
fragraptor: tweeto vote: do you care about noobcube's results?
abcdrjp: i wish people actually thought about what they say, we'
Mod Subscriber tweeto: Okay frag
abcdrjp: d have much better comedy
fragraptor: yes no dood?
Mod Subscriber tweeto: let me go check my backpack for any fucks to give
shaggysham: implying i know who noobcube is
Mod Subscriber tweeto: one sec
skurrrrrrt: who is orb?
fragraptor: lolol
Mod noobcube88: rofl
» Can you find any?
Mod Subscriber tweeto: okay, there are zero fucks for noobcube in my backpack
» sorry
miklooo: NA server ain't no joke.
fuscoko: skurrt go to TL teres a thread on him
Subscriber fsgod: Twitch lag
igotitbad: you did a dumb nigger opening
fragraptor: ROFL
Mod Subscriber tweeto: LOL
skurrrrrrt: lol
cute_zergling: lol
very NSFW, not edited or bleeped.
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On March 13 2012 08:42 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 08:34 Shiori wrote:On March 13 2012 08:28 plogamer wrote:On March 13 2012 05:35 Zambrah wrote:On March 12 2012 14:14 Klondikebar wrote:On March 12 2012 11:30 Zambrah wrote:On March 12 2012 11:19 Klondikebar wrote:On March 12 2012 11:11 Zambrah wrote:On March 12 2012 11:07 Klondikebar wrote:On March 12 2012 11:04 Zambrah wrote:
[quote]
His punishment was way too harsh considering that this happened long before he joined EG and that he displayed perfect professionalism during periods where it would be required (and if you consider his manner on his personal stream, you would appreciate that he DOES exercise self control to be able to be as professional as he is on-air) which is what many of us are really sad about.
I know I am at least. It wasn't too harsh at all. In every other line of work you can and will be fired for making racist remarks. If EG didn't fire him they would have been the exception, not the rule. And it REALLY didn't help that he lied about it. You can also get fired for lying to your employer. Methinks a lot of the people in this thread have never had a job. He said these things long before he joined EG, I don't think they ever even proved the recent one was even Orb, which makes him lying incredibly debatable. He didn't make racist remarks on the job, he never has, he has never failed to conduct himself with perfect professionalism when he casts. In the end what should have mattered was his conduct during his time under EG, and during his previous professional experiences. Orb had a history of making racist remarks and he showed a complete lack of control when he got frustrated. When that came to light, he went from being an investment to a massive liability. And Starcraft 2 was his profession. His behavior in the game is completely relevant to his job. If he had immediately apologized for what he said and admitted it was wrong and that he'd never do it again, EG might've been able to cut him a little slack. But instead he lied about it, and leveled accusations of slander and witch hunting at people. It made it very difficult for EG to defend. If I'm not mistaken, he still denies that the first allegation (and if I'm not mistaken, the only RECENT one) is himself. The fact that his non-professional past had such a massive impact on his professional one is disgusting, I don't care that it might be business standard, because it SHOULDN'T be business standard, what one does outside of the professional sphere should be left mostly out of the equation, it disappoints me that people expect every StarCraft personality to be a Paragon of Ultimate Virtue through the entirety of their existence from birth to present. Their action WAS harsh, suspension would have been a much fairer punishment (a possibly unnecessary punishment) what they did was due almost entirely to community backlash, and that tends to make me ashamed of a part of this community that would so feverishly attempt to slaughter a young man's career over something that in all honesty, should BARELY MATTER. See, here's why I don't think that you've had a career job. I actually work in HR and racism/bigotry is a HUGE no-no. Like, instant termination. And you can bet your ass that we'd not hire someone if we found out they had the nasty habit of making racial slurs when they got mad. And as a caster your image is important. If, in the past you had a penchant for bigotry, that's going to tarnish your image and you will make a bad caster. In EVERY SINGLE JOB being a bigot will have an impact on your professional life. This is precisely why the internet is so completely backwards and mind boggling. In every other field if you let those kinds of words slip you're instantly finished. But for some reason, on the internet, not only are they not seen as serious...they're actually defended. 1. Orb is not a bigot. The way he used the words was entirely interchangeable with tons of other insults/swear words. He didn't even have any way of knowing what race his opponent was, he is not racist, he is not a bigot. 2. So you guys really go and do the most obstinately thorough background check possible to find any instances of someone using words like nigger or faggot? He did. not. and. has. not. used. these. words. on. air. It is not a 'nasty habit,' he has proved ENTIRELY reliable to remain professional and appropriate during casting. I find is deplorable that people would intertwine people's professional and personal lives to such a degree, its sickening, something he said so far in the past and during his personal time should not have had the impact it did, that this might be common business practice sickens me farher. Orb. is. not. a. bigot. Nor a racist. Interchangable insult? Where is this logic coming from? Since when did the N-word become an all-purpose insult? At exactly the same moment millions of people started using it as such. Millions? Really? Maybe a couple million self-entitled, bitchy little nerds and knuckleheads -- in a continent with over 500 million people.
Explicitly talking down to people you accuse of implicitly talking down to a minority isn't exactly making you look good.
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United States7483 Posts
On March 13 2012 09:12 jfourz wrote:
i understand why EG don't want someone with so much "bad press" representing them, and i understand and accept why casters are expected to be hyper-PC all the time, since they are so "client facing" as it were.
but a post like this, condemning everyone who uses the word nigger or faggot is too much. just because you believe the words are hateful and despicable, does not make them so. indeed, this is even addressed in the OP; you say you don't expect everyone to subscribe to your ideals, but then you expect everyone to. you ask us to forgive orb, without questioning whether we agree he was in the wrong first.
in my mind, forcing this crap down our throats is drawing awfully close to the people who propagate racism, just in the opposite direction. it's more socially acceptable to be this sort of extremist, yes, but does that make it any more "right"?
edit: of course these are just my opinions, i should probably have mentioned that already
Yes it's more right. Racism is wrong, thus it's wrong to promote it. Being anti-racism is morally correct, therefore it is more "right" to take this stance.
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On March 13 2012 11:17 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 09:12 jfourz wrote:
i understand why EG don't want someone with so much "bad press" representing them, and i understand and accept why casters are expected to be hyper-PC all the time, since they are so "client facing" as it were.
but a post like this, condemning everyone who uses the word nigger or faggot is too much. just because you believe the words are hateful and despicable, does not make them so. indeed, this is even addressed in the OP; you say you don't expect everyone to subscribe to your ideals, but then you expect everyone to. you ask us to forgive orb, without questioning whether we agree he was in the wrong first.
in my mind, forcing this crap down our throats is drawing awfully close to the people who propagate racism, just in the opposite direction. it's more socially acceptable to be this sort of extremist, yes, but does that make it any more "right"?
edit: of course these are just my opinions, i should probably have mentioned that already Yes it's more right. Racism is wrong, thus it's wrong to promote it. Being anti-racism is morally correct, therefore it is more "right" to take this stance.
devil's advocate, if its wrong to promote intolerance, anti-racism is as intolerant as racism itself. Zero tolerance = full intolerance. right?
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On March 13 2012 11:24 Spieltor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 11:17 Whitewing wrote:On March 13 2012 09:12 jfourz wrote:
i understand why EG don't want someone with so much "bad press" representing them, and i understand and accept why casters are expected to be hyper-PC all the time, since they are so "client facing" as it were.
but a post like this, condemning everyone who uses the word nigger or faggot is too much. just because you believe the words are hateful and despicable, does not make them so. indeed, this is even addressed in the OP; you say you don't expect everyone to subscribe to your ideals, but then you expect everyone to. you ask us to forgive orb, without questioning whether we agree he was in the wrong first.
in my mind, forcing this crap down our throats is drawing awfully close to the people who propagate racism, just in the opposite direction. it's more socially acceptable to be this sort of extremist, yes, but does that make it any more "right"?
edit: of course these are just my opinions, i should probably have mentioned that already Yes it's more right. Racism is wrong, thus it's wrong to promote it. Being anti-racism is morally correct, therefore it is more "right" to take this stance. devil's advocate, if its wrong to promote intolerance, anti-racism is as intolerant as racism itself. Zero tolerance = full intolerance. right?
Just the last bit of evidence that this thread needs to be closed.
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On March 13 2012 11:51 BreakfastTea wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 11:24 Spieltor wrote:On March 13 2012 11:17 Whitewing wrote:On March 13 2012 09:12 jfourz wrote:
i understand why EG don't want someone with so much "bad press" representing them, and i understand and accept why casters are expected to be hyper-PC all the time, since they are so "client facing" as it were.
but a post like this, condemning everyone who uses the word nigger or faggot is too much. just because you believe the words are hateful and despicable, does not make them so. indeed, this is even addressed in the OP; you say you don't expect everyone to subscribe to your ideals, but then you expect everyone to. you ask us to forgive orb, without questioning whether we agree he was in the wrong first.
in my mind, forcing this crap down our throats is drawing awfully close to the people who propagate racism, just in the opposite direction. it's more socially acceptable to be this sort of extremist, yes, but does that make it any more "right"?
edit: of course these are just my opinions, i should probably have mentioned that already Yes it's more right. Racism is wrong, thus it's wrong to promote it. Being anti-racism is morally correct, therefore it is more "right" to take this stance. devil's advocate, if its wrong to promote intolerance, anti-racism is as intolerant as racism itself. Zero tolerance = full intolerance. right? Just the last bit of evidence that this thread needs to be closed.
you may not like it, but intolerance is what causes hate, which is a fact. And racism's underlying cause is intolerance. Intolerance leads to anger, which leads to hate, and all that other yoda crap. Most eastern philosophers advocate "the middle way" or "the balanced way", even Bruce Lee. To fight intolerance with intolerance is to simply go from one extreme to the other. Are you going to say this isn't true?
take some classes to become a social worker for family issues, and they'll teach you that in order to open a dialogue between people and persuade people to come to a compromise and understanding between each other and accept each other, you have to teach these people you're trying to help that walling off and trying to condemn the other side is what keeps relations and the people entrenched in their views, and the cycle of animosity will continue indefinitely that way. to actually change things would be to drop this behavior and try to be open. You cant convince everyone they're wrong by assaulting their ego and sense of self. That simply invokes defense mechanisms that entrench them further in their beliefs.The worst thing a person would like to hear is that most of their life is built on errors and wrong ideas.
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On March 13 2012 11:13 Spieltor wrote:I doubt this will change anything in the long run. Observe todays chat from a pro player's stream. + Show Spoiler +heuristicantics: whhhat!
skurrrrrrt: lol i thought so.
arsenalmark: The SC2 is just a bonus extra
heuristicantics: why is fragraptor no longer mod?
Mod Subscriber tweeto: because
skurrrrrrt: i only plugged in my headphones because i thought he was commentating what he was doing
cute_zergling: he used the n word
Mod Subscriber tweeto: he said the n word too much and got fired
» LOL
fragraptor: I was too busy being tweeto's bitch
miklooo: he was hitler in disguise
heuristicantics:
Mod Subscriber tweeto: damn you cute zergling
skurrrrrrt: who?
Mod Subscriber tweeto: LOL
fragraptor: ROFL
cute_zergling: haha :D
skurrrrrrt: are we not allowed to cuss?
Mod Subscriber tweeto: fuck no you are not allowed to
Mod epiclulz101: haha
shaggysham: well fuck that
skurrrrrrt: well fuck.
pinhead84: well
Mod Subscriber tweeto: well shit cunt balls fuck ass
fragraptor: fuck that shit my nigger bro
cute_zergling: %^*$ that
dunkz28: fuck
Mod Subscriber tweeto: LOL
acidzap: lol
skurrrrrrt: lol
nadshots: just be carefull to never say ***
skurrrrrrt: you guys
Mod Subscriber tweeto: niggerfest 2K12?
headshothankx: fuck nigger why cant i fucking swear? thats fucking bullshit
fragraptor: we like to keep it to banning the message not the words
skurrrrrrt: damn lost both is queens
Mod Subscriber tweeto: i hate the tattoo itch so much
fragraptor: but if you are going to say something just for the purpose of trolling, well ya we will stop it.
giggity_giggity_goooo: wheres my nigga orb?
Mod Subscriber tweeto: LOL
cute_zergling: lol
Mod Subscriber tweeto: orb made some special risks
fragraptor: +500 giggty for correct context
abcdrjp: tweeto, at least its not scabies
nadshots: U like queens? I make you some more.
skurrrrrrt: rofl...
fuscoko: rofl @ this nigger talk..
scrublol: ouch
m4x30000: fuck.
acidzap: ((( CATZ
Mod Subscriber tweeto: i think orb getting fired will never get old
unitedbk: uoch
fragraptor: now that is riding the line >.>
acidzap: why u lose mutas to those fungals
skurrrrrrt: nigga mutas got caught
metalhydra: oh noes
Mod noobcube88: God, TvZ is so fuin
» fun*
skurrrrrrt: sarcasm
fragraptor: ok guys don't push it
Mod Subscriber tweeto: shut up noobcube
cute_zergling: like i said yesterday, i hope orb goes on a huge racist tirade on SOTG wednesday
Mod noobcube88: It's so fun to drop everywhere
skurrrrrrt: whos orb
cute_zergling: just because we all expect a fluffy apology
unitedbk: is anyone following the drama about ME3 endings ?
fragraptor: fucking noobcube always ruining our fun
Mod noobcube88: I just beat my brother in a TvZ
Mod Subscriber tweeto: what about it united?
fuscoko: orb is the guy with huge orbs in his pants
Mod noobcube88: BMRaptor
legendzawk: stream cheater
fuscoko: who got fired for his general orb flexing
Mod Subscriber tweeto: blamefrag 2K12
fragraptor: tweeto vote: do you care about noobcube's results?
abcdrjp: i wish people actually thought about what they say, we'
Mod Subscriber tweeto: Okay frag
abcdrjp: d have much better comedy
fragraptor: yes no dood?
Mod Subscriber tweeto: let me go check my backpack for any fucks to give
shaggysham: implying i know who noobcube is
Mod Subscriber tweeto: one sec
skurrrrrrt: who is orb?
fragraptor: lolol
Mod noobcube88: rofl
» Can you find any?
Mod Subscriber tweeto: okay, there are zero fucks for noobcube in my backpack
» sorry
miklooo: NA server ain't no joke.
fuscoko: skurrt go to TL teres a thread on him
Subscriber fsgod: Twitch lag
igotitbad: you did a dumb nigger opening
fragraptor: ROFL
Mod Subscriber tweeto: LOL
skurrrrrrt: lol
cute_zergling: lol very NSFW, not edited or bleeped.
A little off-topic. I have had Fragraptor on ignore for months now because of his offensive language. I remember he said there is no difference between any black guy and a nigger. "Same difference to me." Anyway, can't believe that guy is a mod on so many streams. Twitch needs a permanent ignore feature. It's annoying to see him pop up in so many chats and drop the n-bomb, and then have to manually ignore everytime. /offtopic
I agree with your sentiment though. Not sure if things will change because of this incident with Orb. I think everybody knows that using the nbomb or the Fword is not the best idea in public or at their jobs etc, but feel very protected behind their computer monitors with the anonymity of the internet. Just realize that if you step into the spotlight, it can and will come back to haunt you, just like it would if you did it in person.
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On March 13 2012 12:01 Spieltor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 11:51 BreakfastTea wrote:On March 13 2012 11:24 Spieltor wrote:On March 13 2012 11:17 Whitewing wrote:On March 13 2012 09:12 jfourz wrote:
i understand why EG don't want someone with so much "bad press" representing them, and i understand and accept why casters are expected to be hyper-PC all the time, since they are so "client facing" as it were.
but a post like this, condemning everyone who uses the word nigger or faggot is too much. just because you believe the words are hateful and despicable, does not make them so. indeed, this is even addressed in the OP; you say you don't expect everyone to subscribe to your ideals, but then you expect everyone to. you ask us to forgive orb, without questioning whether we agree he was in the wrong first.
in my mind, forcing this crap down our throats is drawing awfully close to the people who propagate racism, just in the opposite direction. it's more socially acceptable to be this sort of extremist, yes, but does that make it any more "right"?
edit: of course these are just my opinions, i should probably have mentioned that already Yes it's more right. Racism is wrong, thus it's wrong to promote it. Being anti-racism is morally correct, therefore it is more "right" to take this stance. devil's advocate, if its wrong to promote intolerance, anti-racism is as intolerant as racism itself. Zero tolerance = full intolerance. right? Just the last bit of evidence that this thread needs to be closed. you may not like it, but intolerance is what causes hate, which is a fact. And racism's underlying cause is intolerance. Intolerance leads to anger, which leads to hate, and all that other yoda crap. Most eastern philosophers advocate "the middle way" or "the balanced way", even Bruce Lee. To fight intolerance with intolerance is to simply go from one extreme to the other. Are you going to say this isn't true?
Yes. That is not true. And if people are saying "well you're just being bigoted towards bigots" then they are truly not going to be convinced.
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On March 13 2012 12:03 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 12:01 Spieltor wrote:On March 13 2012 11:51 BreakfastTea wrote:On March 13 2012 11:24 Spieltor wrote:On March 13 2012 11:17 Whitewing wrote:On March 13 2012 09:12 jfourz wrote:
i understand why EG don't want someone with so much "bad press" representing them, and i understand and accept why casters are expected to be hyper-PC all the time, since they are so "client facing" as it were.
but a post like this, condemning everyone who uses the word nigger or faggot is too much. just because you believe the words are hateful and despicable, does not make them so. indeed, this is even addressed in the OP; you say you don't expect everyone to subscribe to your ideals, but then you expect everyone to. you ask us to forgive orb, without questioning whether we agree he was in the wrong first.
in my mind, forcing this crap down our throats is drawing awfully close to the people who propagate racism, just in the opposite direction. it's more socially acceptable to be this sort of extremist, yes, but does that make it any more "right"?
edit: of course these are just my opinions, i should probably have mentioned that already Yes it's more right. Racism is wrong, thus it's wrong to promote it. Being anti-racism is morally correct, therefore it is more "right" to take this stance. devil's advocate, if its wrong to promote intolerance, anti-racism is as intolerant as racism itself. Zero tolerance = full intolerance. right? Just the last bit of evidence that this thread needs to be closed. you may not like it, but intolerance is what causes hate, which is a fact. And racism's underlying cause is intolerance. Intolerance leads to anger, which leads to hate, and all that other yoda crap. Most eastern philosophers advocate "the middle way" or "the balanced way", even Bruce Lee. To fight intolerance with intolerance is to simply go from one extreme to the other. Are you going to say this isn't true? Yes. That is not true. And if people are saying "well you're just being bigoted towards bigots" then they are truly not going to be convinced.
you're saying its not true even though it's logically valid. as in, it can be rationally deduced as If>Then statements. I'd encourage you to take the time to consider it. the ting with intolerance and defensiveness is that it has scientifically proven to shut down the logical processing centers of the brain and invoke the emotional centers to blindly repeat beliefs, even against all logical proof and facts. you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. I don't lead horses anymore because they need to stand on their own four legs.
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O.O
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/WIvCp.jpg)
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On March 13 2012 12:34 paintfive wrote:O.O
but noone cares about destiny and he has the charisma to pull off the "im joking/being sarcastic/friendly insults" guys, and he does it so well that everyone just goes "meh".
on the other hand orb was high up in the scene but also, and more importantly, lied and told people others were lying about him. he slandered them when they were being honest.
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EPT
