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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST |
I'm impressed with EG having the balls to be all ideological and acting out against this. Kudos to the EG organisation for this!  It warms my heart when people go out of their way to do the right thing, profits and business aside.
<3
I wouldn't go so far as to say that what Orb did is unforgivable, though. That's a bit of a stretch. If he shows true regret then I can't see why he shouldn't be given a second chance down the line. We can all make mistakes, right?
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Really shows we're maturing as a community. Thanks EG and Alex. Best of luck Orb.
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On March 12 2012 11:27 Sammeh wrote:
I agree completely, well put. I'm so sick of people making the point of saying how any professional would be fired if they said it in their line of work. He didn't. It was his leisure time. He has done nothing wrong by EG. If EG truly believe he's not a racist and the profanity used was meerly interchangable with any other expletive then there's no reason to fire him. At the end of the day when you bypass the organisation and go straight to the sponsors with scary accusations, decisions like this tend to be made.
If you worked where I work, and said it what Orb said in your free time, on facebook, you'd be fired.
I doubt that my workplace is unique in this.
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I loved Orb's commentary, too bad to hear what he did. EG made the right decision.
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On March 12 2012 14:19 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 14:14 Klondikebar wrote:On March 12 2012 11:30 Zambrah wrote:On March 12 2012 11:19 Klondikebar wrote:On March 12 2012 11:11 Zambrah wrote:On March 12 2012 11:07 Klondikebar wrote:On March 12 2012 11:04 Zambrah wrote:On March 12 2012 10:57 Klondikebar wrote:
1. Wow I can't believe this thread is still going.
2. I do have one question now: Why are we so OK with raging at all? I mean, if you're an adult it seems to me like you should be able to maintain SOME level headedness when playing a video game. The stakes aren't really very high at all so it doesn't make sense to me that an adult would fly off the handle at a loss.
I don't mean we should completely punish or berate ragers by any means but when we see raging we should probably be raising an eyebrow and telling them to grow up.
And if you're raging SO hard that you let completely inappropriate words slip out then you REALLY need to rethink how you behave and you probably need to take a break and get some perspective. His punishment was way too harsh considering that this happened long before he joined EG and that he displayed perfect professionalism during periods where it would be required (and if you consider his manner on his personal stream, you would appreciate that he DOES exercise self control to be able to be as professional as he is on-air) which is what many of us are really sad about. I know I am at least. It wasn't too harsh at all. In every other line of work you can and will be fired for making racist remarks. If EG didn't fire him they would have been the exception, not the rule. And it REALLY didn't help that he lied about it. You can also get fired for lying to your employer. Methinks a lot of the people in this thread have never had a job. He said these things long before he joined EG, I don't think they ever even proved the recent one was even Orb, which makes him lying incredibly debatable. He didn't make racist remarks on the job, he never has, he has never failed to conduct himself with perfect professionalism when he casts. In the end what should have mattered was his conduct during his time under EG, and during his previous professional experiences. Orb had a history of making racist remarks and he showed a complete lack of control when he got frustrated. When that came to light, he went from being an investment to a massive liability. And Starcraft 2 was his profession. His behavior in the game is completely relevant to his job. If he had immediately apologized for what he said and admitted it was wrong and that he'd never do it again, EG might've been able to cut him a little slack. But instead he lied about it, and leveled accusations of slander and witch hunting at people. It made it very difficult for EG to defend. If I'm not mistaken, he still denies that the first allegation (and if I'm not mistaken, the only RECENT one) is himself. The fact that his non-professional past had such a massive impact on his professional one is disgusting, I don't care that it might be business standard, because it SHOULDN'T be business standard, what one does outside of the professional sphere should be left mostly out of the equation, it disappoints me that people expect every StarCraft personality to be a Paragon of Ultimate Virtue through the entirety of their existence from birth to present. Their action WAS harsh, suspension would have been a much fairer punishment (a possibly unnecessary punishment) what they did was due almost entirely to community backlash, and that tends to make me ashamed of a part of this community that would so feverishly attempt to slaughter a young man's career over something that in all honesty, should BARELY MATTER. See, here's why I don't think that you've had a career job. I actually work in HR and racism/bigotry is a HUGE no-no. Like, instant termination. And you can bet your ass that we'd not hire someone if we found out they had the nasty habit of making racial slurs when they got mad. And as a caster your image is important. If, in the past you had a penchant for bigotry, that's going to tarnish your image and you will make a bad caster. In EVERY SINGLE JOB being a bigot will have an impact on your professional life. This is precisely why the internet is so completely backwards and mind boggling. In every other field if you let those kinds of words slip you're instantly finished. But for some reason, on the internet, not only are they not seen as serious...they're actually defended. People don't get fired from work because some asshole basically claims that someone is racist. People get fired for doing a bad job, or breaking the rules while they are on the job. People especially do not get fired from their job retroactively just because some asshole pulled some dirt on you from a year ago.
Yeah, they do. If your employer has certain requirements on the behaviour front and they find out that you did something which violated that and weren't upfront about it you could get fired for that. Obviously it depends on the business and the particular transgression but it can and does happen.
People have to remember that by posting something online you're not making a private remark, you're broadcasting something in a very public domain that can and often will come back to haunt you.
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On March 13 2012 00:18 Darkong wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 14:19 superstartran wrote:On March 12 2012 14:14 Klondikebar wrote:On March 12 2012 11:30 Zambrah wrote:On March 12 2012 11:19 Klondikebar wrote:On March 12 2012 11:11 Zambrah wrote:On March 12 2012 11:07 Klondikebar wrote:On March 12 2012 11:04 Zambrah wrote:On March 12 2012 10:57 Klondikebar wrote:
1. Wow I can't believe this thread is still going.
2. I do have one question now: Why are we so OK with raging at all? I mean, if you're an adult it seems to me like you should be able to maintain SOME level headedness when playing a video game. The stakes aren't really very high at all so it doesn't make sense to me that an adult would fly off the handle at a loss.
I don't mean we should completely punish or berate ragers by any means but when we see raging we should probably be raising an eyebrow and telling them to grow up.
And if you're raging SO hard that you let completely inappropriate words slip out then you REALLY need to rethink how you behave and you probably need to take a break and get some perspective. His punishment was way too harsh considering that this happened long before he joined EG and that he displayed perfect professionalism during periods where it would be required (and if you consider his manner on his personal stream, you would appreciate that he DOES exercise self control to be able to be as professional as he is on-air) which is what many of us are really sad about. I know I am at least. It wasn't too harsh at all. In every other line of work you can and will be fired for making racist remarks. If EG didn't fire him they would have been the exception, not the rule. And it REALLY didn't help that he lied about it. You can also get fired for lying to your employer. Methinks a lot of the people in this thread have never had a job. He said these things long before he joined EG, I don't think they ever even proved the recent one was even Orb, which makes him lying incredibly debatable. He didn't make racist remarks on the job, he never has, he has never failed to conduct himself with perfect professionalism when he casts. In the end what should have mattered was his conduct during his time under EG, and during his previous professional experiences. Orb had a history of making racist remarks and he showed a complete lack of control when he got frustrated. When that came to light, he went from being an investment to a massive liability. And Starcraft 2 was his profession. His behavior in the game is completely relevant to his job. If he had immediately apologized for what he said and admitted it was wrong and that he'd never do it again, EG might've been able to cut him a little slack. But instead he lied about it, and leveled accusations of slander and witch hunting at people. It made it very difficult for EG to defend. If I'm not mistaken, he still denies that the first allegation (and if I'm not mistaken, the only RECENT one) is himself. The fact that his non-professional past had such a massive impact on his professional one is disgusting, I don't care that it might be business standard, because it SHOULDN'T be business standard, what one does outside of the professional sphere should be left mostly out of the equation, it disappoints me that people expect every StarCraft personality to be a Paragon of Ultimate Virtue through the entirety of their existence from birth to present. Their action WAS harsh, suspension would have been a much fairer punishment (a possibly unnecessary punishment) what they did was due almost entirely to community backlash, and that tends to make me ashamed of a part of this community that would so feverishly attempt to slaughter a young man's career over something that in all honesty, should BARELY MATTER. See, here's why I don't think that you've had a career job. I actually work in HR and racism/bigotry is a HUGE no-no. Like, instant termination. And you can bet your ass that we'd not hire someone if we found out they had the nasty habit of making racial slurs when they got mad. And as a caster your image is important. If, in the past you had a penchant for bigotry, that's going to tarnish your image and you will make a bad caster. In EVERY SINGLE JOB being a bigot will have an impact on your professional life. This is precisely why the internet is so completely backwards and mind boggling. In every other field if you let those kinds of words slip you're instantly finished. But for some reason, on the internet, not only are they not seen as serious...they're actually defended. People don't get fired from work because some asshole basically claims that someone is racist. People get fired for doing a bad job, or breaking the rules while they are on the job. People especially do not get fired from their job retroactively just because some asshole pulled some dirt on you from a year ago. Yeah, they do. If your employer has certain requirements on the behaviour front and they find out that you did something which violated that and weren't upfront about it you could get fired for that. Obviously it depends on the business and the particular transgression but it can and does happen. People have to remember that by posting something online you're not making a private remark, you're broadcasting something in a very public domain that can and often will come back to haunt you.
As a teacher in the United States, you are upheld to certain standards when you BECOME a teacher. It is never retroactively implemented, that's breaking the law half the time.
IF EG had something in their contract that stated that prior to Orb's arrival if he had any behavioral issues then you MIGHT have a point, but if it's not, there's no way they could legally do it. It's walking on shaky ground what they are doing if they didn't have anything within his contract with EG.
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On March 12 2012 21:43 korona_ wrote:I'm impressed with EG having the balls to be all ideological and acting out against this. Kudos to the EG organisation for this! It warms my heart when people go out of their way to do the right thing, profits and business aside. <3 I wouldn't go so far as to say that what Orb did is unforgivable, though. That's a bit of a stretch. If he shows true regret then I can't see why he shouldn't be given a second chance down the line. We can all make mistakes, right?
This is what you call "profits and business aside"? If so you should really work on your reading comprehension... This is pretty much ALL profits and business.
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On March 13 2012 02:36 sereniity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 21:43 korona_ wrote:I'm impressed with EG having the balls to be all ideological and acting out against this. Kudos to the EG organisation for this! It warms my heart when people go out of their way to do the right thing, profits and business aside. <3 I wouldn't go so far as to say that what Orb did is unforgivable, though. That's a bit of a stretch. If he shows true regret then I can't see why he shouldn't be given a second chance down the line. We can all make mistakes, right? This is what you call "profits and business aside"? If so you should really work on your reading comprehension... This is pretty much ALL profits and business.
Bad publicity is good publicity. Orb casts at this point will be pretty popular I'd say, which is good for business.
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On March 13 2012 02:37 Gentso wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 02:36 sereniity wrote:On March 12 2012 21:43 korona_ wrote:I'm impressed with EG having the balls to be all ideological and acting out against this. Kudos to the EG organisation for this! It warms my heart when people go out of their way to do the right thing, profits and business aside. <3 I wouldn't go so far as to say that what Orb did is unforgivable, though. That's a bit of a stretch. If he shows true regret then I can't see why he shouldn't be given a second chance down the line. We can all make mistakes, right? This is what you call "profits and business aside"? If so you should really work on your reading comprehension... This is pretty much ALL profits and business. Bad publicity is good publicity. Orb casts at this point will be pretty popular I'd say, which is good for business.
The kind of publicity that leads to people messaging sponsors isn't good publicity. If it wasn't for the fact that this caused such a huge reaction by the community, messages to sponsors etc I doubt Orb would ever be gone. Just look at the end of Alex post, "please message our sponsors that u like us herp derp". "We didn't know he had such a dirty past" yeah fucking right, Alex post actually disgusts me as a very big EG fan.
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the N-word (I wanted to write the word but I'll try to be polticial correct despite how much it disgusts me to be this fake) stopped beeing offensive when the people under said category made it their own and started calling their buddies by it. When you attempt to judge if a word is too offensive or not the skincolor of the person saying it should not be factor. And that is what you have with the N-word debate. If you want proof go watch movies and wait for some funny-speedtalking black guy to come around and start throwing it around. It's all comedy and generaly a caucasian audience finds it funny and laughs.
Words meaning change and the N-word no longer means what it used to mean. I don't care if you try to throw an argument on how repulsive it's history has been. A words meaning is what we say it is, what we teach our children it is. To me a word is only as offensive as the person saying it meant it to be. If the reciver takes it poorly you'll just have to explain that you didn't mean it offensivly.
Going into real life, as a joke or not. Black people can say it, Caucasian people can't. It's clearly hypocrisy and if you accept this truth you actually fight for racism in the long run.
If a caucasian person utters the N-word, should he or she be deathstared at, distanced from or shunned for the racist bastard he or she clearly isn't?
I understand EG's decision but I am so hugely dissapointed in the organisation. That they choose this path instead of holding Orb's back on this and ride it out together. Throw in racism somewhere and everyone is so fucking quick to distance themselves. The fear of beeing associated with racism. In our current time it feel's like we're in a state of transsision. I'm really afraid it's going to take as long as a few more decades untill the majority of people will be able to look at these situations intelligently.
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On March 13 2012 02:19 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 00:18 Darkong wrote:On March 12 2012 14:19 superstartran wrote:On March 12 2012 14:14 Klondikebar wrote:On March 12 2012 11:30 Zambrah wrote:On March 12 2012 11:19 Klondikebar wrote:On March 12 2012 11:11 Zambrah wrote:On March 12 2012 11:07 Klondikebar wrote:On March 12 2012 11:04 Zambrah wrote:On March 12 2012 10:57 Klondikebar wrote:
1. Wow I can't believe this thread is still going.
2. I do have one question now: Why are we so OK with raging at all? I mean, if you're an adult it seems to me like you should be able to maintain SOME level headedness when playing a video game. The stakes aren't really very high at all so it doesn't make sense to me that an adult would fly off the handle at a loss.
I don't mean we should completely punish or berate ragers by any means but when we see raging we should probably be raising an eyebrow and telling them to grow up.
And if you're raging SO hard that you let completely inappropriate words slip out then you REALLY need to rethink how you behave and you probably need to take a break and get some perspective. His punishment was way too harsh considering that this happened long before he joined EG and that he displayed perfect professionalism during periods where it would be required (and if you consider his manner on his personal stream, you would appreciate that he DOES exercise self control to be able to be as professional as he is on-air) which is what many of us are really sad about. I know I am at least. It wasn't too harsh at all. In every other line of work you can and will be fired for making racist remarks. If EG didn't fire him they would have been the exception, not the rule. And it REALLY didn't help that he lied about it. You can also get fired for lying to your employer. Methinks a lot of the people in this thread have never had a job. He said these things long before he joined EG, I don't think they ever even proved the recent one was even Orb, which makes him lying incredibly debatable. He didn't make racist remarks on the job, he never has, he has never failed to conduct himself with perfect professionalism when he casts. In the end what should have mattered was his conduct during his time under EG, and during his previous professional experiences. Orb had a history of making racist remarks and he showed a complete lack of control when he got frustrated. When that came to light, he went from being an investment to a massive liability. And Starcraft 2 was his profession. His behavior in the game is completely relevant to his job. If he had immediately apologized for what he said and admitted it was wrong and that he'd never do it again, EG might've been able to cut him a little slack. But instead he lied about it, and leveled accusations of slander and witch hunting at people. It made it very difficult for EG to defend. If I'm not mistaken, he still denies that the first allegation (and if I'm not mistaken, the only RECENT one) is himself. The fact that his non-professional past had such a massive impact on his professional one is disgusting, I don't care that it might be business standard, because it SHOULDN'T be business standard, what one does outside of the professional sphere should be left mostly out of the equation, it disappoints me that people expect every StarCraft personality to be a Paragon of Ultimate Virtue through the entirety of their existence from birth to present. Their action WAS harsh, suspension would have been a much fairer punishment (a possibly unnecessary punishment) what they did was due almost entirely to community backlash, and that tends to make me ashamed of a part of this community that would so feverishly attempt to slaughter a young man's career over something that in all honesty, should BARELY MATTER. See, here's why I don't think that you've had a career job. I actually work in HR and racism/bigotry is a HUGE no-no. Like, instant termination. And you can bet your ass that we'd not hire someone if we found out they had the nasty habit of making racial slurs when they got mad. And as a caster your image is important. If, in the past you had a penchant for bigotry, that's going to tarnish your image and you will make a bad caster. In EVERY SINGLE JOB being a bigot will have an impact on your professional life. This is precisely why the internet is so completely backwards and mind boggling. In every other field if you let those kinds of words slip you're instantly finished. But for some reason, on the internet, not only are they not seen as serious...they're actually defended. People don't get fired from work because some asshole basically claims that someone is racist. People get fired for doing a bad job, or breaking the rules while they are on the job. People especially do not get fired from their job retroactively just because some asshole pulled some dirt on you from a year ago. Yeah, they do. If your employer has certain requirements on the behaviour front and they find out that you did something which violated that and weren't upfront about it you could get fired for that. Obviously it depends on the business and the particular transgression but it can and does happen. People have to remember that by posting something online you're not making a private remark, you're broadcasting something in a very public domain that can and often will come back to haunt you. As a teacher in the United States, you are upheld to certain standards when you BECOME a teacher. It is never retroactively implemented, that's breaking the law half the time. IF EG had something in their contract that stated that prior to Orb's arrival if he had any behavioral issues then you MIGHT have a point, but if it's not, there's no way they could legally do it. It's walking on shaky ground what they are doing if they didn't have anything within his contract with EG.
I think that as soon you put your stream on TeamLiquid you are not private anymore, you are aiming for a bigger audience to gain something. As such, you are a caster, even if you only have 5 viewers. Want to keep your stream private? Don't advertise it on big sites like TeamLiquid. Orb putting his stream up here was the first step on a long march towards beeing invited to cast the EGMC.
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On March 13 2012 02:19 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 00:18 Darkong wrote:On March 12 2012 14:19 superstartran wrote:On March 12 2012 14:14 Klondikebar wrote:On March 12 2012 11:30 Zambrah wrote:On March 12 2012 11:19 Klondikebar wrote:On March 12 2012 11:11 Zambrah wrote:On March 12 2012 11:07 Klondikebar wrote:On March 12 2012 11:04 Zambrah wrote:On March 12 2012 10:57 Klondikebar wrote:
1. Wow I can't believe this thread is still going.
2. I do have one question now: Why are we so OK with raging at all? I mean, if you're an adult it seems to me like you should be able to maintain SOME level headedness when playing a video game. The stakes aren't really very high at all so it doesn't make sense to me that an adult would fly off the handle at a loss.
I don't mean we should completely punish or berate ragers by any means but when we see raging we should probably be raising an eyebrow and telling them to grow up.
And if you're raging SO hard that you let completely inappropriate words slip out then you REALLY need to rethink how you behave and you probably need to take a break and get some perspective. His punishment was way too harsh considering that this happened long before he joined EG and that he displayed perfect professionalism during periods where it would be required (and if you consider his manner on his personal stream, you would appreciate that he DOES exercise self control to be able to be as professional as he is on-air) which is what many of us are really sad about. I know I am at least. It wasn't too harsh at all. In every other line of work you can and will be fired for making racist remarks. If EG didn't fire him they would have been the exception, not the rule. And it REALLY didn't help that he lied about it. You can also get fired for lying to your employer. Methinks a lot of the people in this thread have never had a job. He said these things long before he joined EG, I don't think they ever even proved the recent one was even Orb, which makes him lying incredibly debatable. He didn't make racist remarks on the job, he never has, he has never failed to conduct himself with perfect professionalism when he casts. In the end what should have mattered was his conduct during his time under EG, and during his previous professional experiences. Orb had a history of making racist remarks and he showed a complete lack of control when he got frustrated. When that came to light, he went from being an investment to a massive liability. And Starcraft 2 was his profession. His behavior in the game is completely relevant to his job. If he had immediately apologized for what he said and admitted it was wrong and that he'd never do it again, EG might've been able to cut him a little slack. But instead he lied about it, and leveled accusations of slander and witch hunting at people. It made it very difficult for EG to defend. If I'm not mistaken, he still denies that the first allegation (and if I'm not mistaken, the only RECENT one) is himself. The fact that his non-professional past had such a massive impact on his professional one is disgusting, I don't care that it might be business standard, because it SHOULDN'T be business standard, what one does outside of the professional sphere should be left mostly out of the equation, it disappoints me that people expect every StarCraft personality to be a Paragon of Ultimate Virtue through the entirety of their existence from birth to present. Their action WAS harsh, suspension would have been a much fairer punishment (a possibly unnecessary punishment) what they did was due almost entirely to community backlash, and that tends to make me ashamed of a part of this community that would so feverishly attempt to slaughter a young man's career over something that in all honesty, should BARELY MATTER. See, here's why I don't think that you've had a career job. I actually work in HR and racism/bigotry is a HUGE no-no. Like, instant termination. And you can bet your ass that we'd not hire someone if we found out they had the nasty habit of making racial slurs when they got mad. And as a caster your image is important. If, in the past you had a penchant for bigotry, that's going to tarnish your image and you will make a bad caster. In EVERY SINGLE JOB being a bigot will have an impact on your professional life. This is precisely why the internet is so completely backwards and mind boggling. In every other field if you let those kinds of words slip you're instantly finished. But for some reason, on the internet, not only are they not seen as serious...they're actually defended. People don't get fired from work because some asshole basically claims that someone is racist. People get fired for doing a bad job, or breaking the rules while they are on the job. People especially do not get fired from their job retroactively just because some asshole pulled some dirt on you from a year ago. Yeah, they do. If your employer has certain requirements on the behaviour front and they find out that you did something which violated that and weren't upfront about it you could get fired for that. Obviously it depends on the business and the particular transgression but it can and does happen. People have to remember that by posting something online you're not making a private remark, you're broadcasting something in a very public domain that can and often will come back to haunt you. As a teacher in the United States, you are upheld to certain standards when you BECOME a teacher. It is never retroactively implemented, that's breaking the law half the time. IF EG had something in their contract that stated that prior to Orb's arrival if he had any behavioral issues then you MIGHT have a point, but if it's not, there's no way they could legally do it. It's walking on shaky ground what they are doing if they didn't have anything within his contract with EG.
In some positions you can be fired retroactively. If you go into in interview and you lie about who you are or what you have done then you were hired on false pretenses which gives your employer grounds to fire you. You would not think it would be right for say a school to fire a former child molester who lied about his past in the interview process?
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I'm dissapointed with EG's decision, especially in a case of a retroactive decision. Everyone has made mistakes and Orb is being made an example of. I bet the majority of posters on TL, at some point, have used profaine words. An academic perspective will only create a biased decision; to say otherwise proves you are not an academic. We are all suspect to bias in the field of academia.
I will e-mail sponsors with my complaints. If decisions can be retroactive, so can complaints.
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On March 13 2012 03:41 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 02:19 superstartran wrote:On March 13 2012 00:18 Darkong wrote:On March 12 2012 14:19 superstartran wrote:On March 12 2012 14:14 Klondikebar wrote:On March 12 2012 11:30 Zambrah wrote:On March 12 2012 11:19 Klondikebar wrote:On March 12 2012 11:11 Zambrah wrote:On March 12 2012 11:07 Klondikebar wrote:On March 12 2012 11:04 Zambrah wrote:
[quote]
His punishment was way too harsh considering that this happened long before he joined EG and that he displayed perfect professionalism during periods where it would be required (and if you consider his manner on his personal stream, you would appreciate that he DOES exercise self control to be able to be as professional as he is on-air) which is what many of us are really sad about.
I know I am at least. It wasn't too harsh at all. In every other line of work you can and will be fired for making racist remarks. If EG didn't fire him they would have been the exception, not the rule. And it REALLY didn't help that he lied about it. You can also get fired for lying to your employer. Methinks a lot of the people in this thread have never had a job. He said these things long before he joined EG, I don't think they ever even proved the recent one was even Orb, which makes him lying incredibly debatable. He didn't make racist remarks on the job, he never has, he has never failed to conduct himself with perfect professionalism when he casts. In the end what should have mattered was his conduct during his time under EG, and during his previous professional experiences. Orb had a history of making racist remarks and he showed a complete lack of control when he got frustrated. When that came to light, he went from being an investment to a massive liability. And Starcraft 2 was his profession. His behavior in the game is completely relevant to his job. If he had immediately apologized for what he said and admitted it was wrong and that he'd never do it again, EG might've been able to cut him a little slack. But instead he lied about it, and leveled accusations of slander and witch hunting at people. It made it very difficult for EG to defend. If I'm not mistaken, he still denies that the first allegation (and if I'm not mistaken, the only RECENT one) is himself. The fact that his non-professional past had such a massive impact on his professional one is disgusting, I don't care that it might be business standard, because it SHOULDN'T be business standard, what one does outside of the professional sphere should be left mostly out of the equation, it disappoints me that people expect every StarCraft personality to be a Paragon of Ultimate Virtue through the entirety of their existence from birth to present. Their action WAS harsh, suspension would have been a much fairer punishment (a possibly unnecessary punishment) what they did was due almost entirely to community backlash, and that tends to make me ashamed of a part of this community that would so feverishly attempt to slaughter a young man's career over something that in all honesty, should BARELY MATTER. See, here's why I don't think that you've had a career job. I actually work in HR and racism/bigotry is a HUGE no-no. Like, instant termination. And you can bet your ass that we'd not hire someone if we found out they had the nasty habit of making racial slurs when they got mad. And as a caster your image is important. If, in the past you had a penchant for bigotry, that's going to tarnish your image and you will make a bad caster. In EVERY SINGLE JOB being a bigot will have an impact on your professional life. This is precisely why the internet is so completely backwards and mind boggling. In every other field if you let those kinds of words slip you're instantly finished. But for some reason, on the internet, not only are they not seen as serious...they're actually defended. People don't get fired from work because some asshole basically claims that someone is racist. People get fired for doing a bad job, or breaking the rules while they are on the job. People especially do not get fired from their job retroactively just because some asshole pulled some dirt on you from a year ago. Yeah, they do. If your employer has certain requirements on the behaviour front and they find out that you did something which violated that and weren't upfront about it you could get fired for that. Obviously it depends on the business and the particular transgression but it can and does happen. People have to remember that by posting something online you're not making a private remark, you're broadcasting something in a very public domain that can and often will come back to haunt you. As a teacher in the United States, you are upheld to certain standards when you BECOME a teacher. It is never retroactively implemented, that's breaking the law half the time. IF EG had something in their contract that stated that prior to Orb's arrival if he had any behavioral issues then you MIGHT have a point, but if it's not, there's no way they could legally do it. It's walking on shaky ground what they are doing if they didn't have anything within his contract with EG. In some positions you can be fired retroactively. If you go into in interview and you lie about who you are or what you have done then you were hired on false pretenses which gives your employer grounds to fire you. You would not think it would be right for say a school to fire a former child molester who lied about his past in the interview process?
whoa, whoa, whoa there, buddy.....no need to compare what orb did to molesting a child......
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EG is like NOBOBY DROPS THE N BOMB IN HERE
really i don´t know what the point is. It´s the Internet everybody flames everyone, especially in Video Games.
And really who cares it´s some random caster for some random video game the hole point of beeing professionall is just unnecesarry. E-Sport will always be a niche. It is getting bigger for sure bbut i will never be mainstream thing. Just my two cents
ps. nigga nigga nigga
User was temp banned for this post.
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On March 13 2012 04:11 stratmatt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 03:41 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On March 13 2012 02:19 superstartran wrote:On March 13 2012 00:18 Darkong wrote:On March 12 2012 14:19 superstartran wrote:On March 12 2012 14:14 Klondikebar wrote:On March 12 2012 11:30 Zambrah wrote:On March 12 2012 11:19 Klondikebar wrote:On March 12 2012 11:11 Zambrah wrote:On March 12 2012 11:07 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
It wasn't too harsh at all. In every other line of work you can and will be fired for making racist remarks. If EG didn't fire him they would have been the exception, not the rule. And it REALLY didn't help that he lied about it. You can also get fired for lying to your employer.
Methinks a lot of the people in this thread have never had a job. He said these things long before he joined EG, I don't think they ever even proved the recent one was even Orb, which makes him lying incredibly debatable. He didn't make racist remarks on the job, he never has, he has never failed to conduct himself with perfect professionalism when he casts. In the end what should have mattered was his conduct during his time under EG, and during his previous professional experiences. Orb had a history of making racist remarks and he showed a complete lack of control when he got frustrated. When that came to light, he went from being an investment to a massive liability. And Starcraft 2 was his profession. His behavior in the game is completely relevant to his job. If he had immediately apologized for what he said and admitted it was wrong and that he'd never do it again, EG might've been able to cut him a little slack. But instead he lied about it, and leveled accusations of slander and witch hunting at people. It made it very difficult for EG to defend. If I'm not mistaken, he still denies that the first allegation (and if I'm not mistaken, the only RECENT one) is himself. The fact that his non-professional past had such a massive impact on his professional one is disgusting, I don't care that it might be business standard, because it SHOULDN'T be business standard, what one does outside of the professional sphere should be left mostly out of the equation, it disappoints me that people expect every StarCraft personality to be a Paragon of Ultimate Virtue through the entirety of their existence from birth to present. Their action WAS harsh, suspension would have been a much fairer punishment (a possibly unnecessary punishment) what they did was due almost entirely to community backlash, and that tends to make me ashamed of a part of this community that would so feverishly attempt to slaughter a young man's career over something that in all honesty, should BARELY MATTER. See, here's why I don't think that you've had a career job. I actually work in HR and racism/bigotry is a HUGE no-no. Like, instant termination. And you can bet your ass that we'd not hire someone if we found out they had the nasty habit of making racial slurs when they got mad. And as a caster your image is important. If, in the past you had a penchant for bigotry, that's going to tarnish your image and you will make a bad caster. In EVERY SINGLE JOB being a bigot will have an impact on your professional life. This is precisely why the internet is so completely backwards and mind boggling. In every other field if you let those kinds of words slip you're instantly finished. But for some reason, on the internet, not only are they not seen as serious...they're actually defended. People don't get fired from work because some asshole basically claims that someone is racist. People get fired for doing a bad job, or breaking the rules while they are on the job. People especially do not get fired from their job retroactively just because some asshole pulled some dirt on you from a year ago. Yeah, they do. If your employer has certain requirements on the behaviour front and they find out that you did something which violated that and weren't upfront about it you could get fired for that. Obviously it depends on the business and the particular transgression but it can and does happen. People have to remember that by posting something online you're not making a private remark, you're broadcasting something in a very public domain that can and often will come back to haunt you. As a teacher in the United States, you are upheld to certain standards when you BECOME a teacher. It is never retroactively implemented, that's breaking the law half the time. IF EG had something in their contract that stated that prior to Orb's arrival if he had any behavioral issues then you MIGHT have a point, but if it's not, there's no way they could legally do it. It's walking on shaky ground what they are doing if they didn't have anything within his contract with EG. In some positions you can be fired retroactively. If you go into in interview and you lie about who you are or what you have done then you were hired on false pretenses which gives your employer grounds to fire you. You would not think it would be right for say a school to fire a former child molester who lied about his past in the interview process? whoa, whoa, whoa there, buddy.....no need to compare what orb did to molesting a child......
Compare him to other sports broadcasters. Like OJ Simpson
No seriously, in a lot of jobs where you are a public figure or your value hinges largely on your personality, it's not abnormal to get lose your job (or at least take a serious knock to your reputation) for your past behaviour.
It's sucks, but if you want the freedom that comes with anonymity, being an on-air personality is the last job you should be vying for.
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On March 13 2012 04:11 stratmatt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 03:41 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:On March 13 2012 02:19 superstartran wrote:On March 13 2012 00:18 Darkong wrote:On March 12 2012 14:19 superstartran wrote:On March 12 2012 14:14 Klondikebar wrote:On March 12 2012 11:30 Zambrah wrote:On March 12 2012 11:19 Klondikebar wrote:On March 12 2012 11:11 Zambrah wrote:On March 12 2012 11:07 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
It wasn't too harsh at all. In every other line of work you can and will be fired for making racist remarks. If EG didn't fire him they would have been the exception, not the rule. And it REALLY didn't help that he lied about it. You can also get fired for lying to your employer.
Methinks a lot of the people in this thread have never had a job. He said these things long before he joined EG, I don't think they ever even proved the recent one was even Orb, which makes him lying incredibly debatable. He didn't make racist remarks on the job, he never has, he has never failed to conduct himself with perfect professionalism when he casts. In the end what should have mattered was his conduct during his time under EG, and during his previous professional experiences. Orb had a history of making racist remarks and he showed a complete lack of control when he got frustrated. When that came to light, he went from being an investment to a massive liability. And Starcraft 2 was his profession. His behavior in the game is completely relevant to his job. If he had immediately apologized for what he said and admitted it was wrong and that he'd never do it again, EG might've been able to cut him a little slack. But instead he lied about it, and leveled accusations of slander and witch hunting at people. It made it very difficult for EG to defend. If I'm not mistaken, he still denies that the first allegation (and if I'm not mistaken, the only RECENT one) is himself. The fact that his non-professional past had such a massive impact on his professional one is disgusting, I don't care that it might be business standard, because it SHOULDN'T be business standard, what one does outside of the professional sphere should be left mostly out of the equation, it disappoints me that people expect every StarCraft personality to be a Paragon of Ultimate Virtue through the entirety of their existence from birth to present. Their action WAS harsh, suspension would have been a much fairer punishment (a possibly unnecessary punishment) what they did was due almost entirely to community backlash, and that tends to make me ashamed of a part of this community that would so feverishly attempt to slaughter a young man's career over something that in all honesty, should BARELY MATTER. See, here's why I don't think that you've had a career job. I actually work in HR and racism/bigotry is a HUGE no-no. Like, instant termination. And you can bet your ass that we'd not hire someone if we found out they had the nasty habit of making racial slurs when they got mad. And as a caster your image is important. If, in the past you had a penchant for bigotry, that's going to tarnish your image and you will make a bad caster. In EVERY SINGLE JOB being a bigot will have an impact on your professional life. This is precisely why the internet is so completely backwards and mind boggling. In every other field if you let those kinds of words slip you're instantly finished. But for some reason, on the internet, not only are they not seen as serious...they're actually defended. People don't get fired from work because some asshole basically claims that someone is racist. People get fired for doing a bad job, or breaking the rules while they are on the job. People especially do not get fired from their job retroactively just because some asshole pulled some dirt on you from a year ago. Yeah, they do. If your employer has certain requirements on the behaviour front and they find out that you did something which violated that and weren't upfront about it you could get fired for that. Obviously it depends on the business and the particular transgression but it can and does happen. People have to remember that by posting something online you're not making a private remark, you're broadcasting something in a very public domain that can and often will come back to haunt you. As a teacher in the United States, you are upheld to certain standards when you BECOME a teacher. It is never retroactively implemented, that's breaking the law half the time. IF EG had something in their contract that stated that prior to Orb's arrival if he had any behavioral issues then you MIGHT have a point, but if it's not, there's no way they could legally do it. It's walking on shaky ground what they are doing if they didn't have anything within his contract with EG. In some positions you can be fired retroactively. If you go into in interview and you lie about who you are or what you have done then you were hired on false pretenses which gives your employer grounds to fire you. You would not think it would be right for say a school to fire a former child molester who lied about his past in the interview process? whoa, whoa, whoa there, buddy.....no need to compare what orb did to molesting a child......
My example was not meant to compare with what orb did I was trying to present example that would seem to provide grounds to fire a teacher retroactively which is what the post I was replying to had suggested could not be done.
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On March 13 2012 04:29 DerFlorist wrote:EG is like NOBOBY DROPS THE N BOMB IN HERE really i don´t know what the point is. It´s the Internet everybody flames everyone, especially in Video Games. And really who cares it´s some random caster for some random video game the hole point of beeing professionall is just unnecesarry. E-Sport will always be a niche. It is getting bigger for sure bbut i will never be mainstream thing. Just my two cents ps. nigga nigga nigga
Trolling used to be an art form. Kids these days just seem to post mindless bullshit in attempt to get a reaction. Try to be more creative with your trolls please.
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On March 13 2012 04:38 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 13 2012 04:29 DerFlorist wrote:EG is like NOBOBY DROPS THE N BOMB IN HERE really i don´t know what the point is. It´s the Internet everybody flames everyone, especially in Video Games. And really who cares it´s some random caster for some random video game the hole point of beeing professionall is just unnecesarry. E-Sport will always be a niche. It is getting bigger for sure bbut i will never be mainstream thing. Just my two cents ps. nigga nigga nigga Trolling used to be an art form. Kids these days just seem to post mindless bullshit in attempt to get a reaction. Try to be more creative with your trolls please.
thats half troll half my honest opinion. Everybody in RL is like whuat when i told them that i watch people playn video games, thats just a fakt. And some of them are really open mindend and watched some games with me, but after that they are like ... i don´t get it
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On March 13 2012 04:38 Mrvoodoochild1 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2012 04:29 DerFlorist wrote:EG is like NOBOBY DROPS THE N BOMB IN HERE really i don´t know what the point is. It´s the Internet everybody flames everyone, especially in Video Games. And really who cares it´s some random caster for some random video game the hole point of beeing professionall is just unnecesarry. E-Sport will always be a niche. It is getting bigger for sure bbut i will never be mainstream thing. Just my two cents ps. nigga nigga nigga Trolling used to be an art form. Kids these days just seem to post mindless bullshit in attempt to get a reaction. Try to be more creative with your trolls please.
So true. The lack of creativity offends me 
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