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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST |
On March 12 2012 07:42 Doomwish wrote:
Can we just drop this now?
The subject has been beat to a bloody pulp in a long and slow painful, grinding death.
Orb is done as a caster , he never deserved the job in the first place. End of story, lets move on as a community.
Chris Brown beat his wife and he still has a job/fans. Why is Orb so special that we need to break out our torches and pitchforks?
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On March 12 2012 07:38 Enki wrote:He said nappy-headed hos. Which is insulting to a bunch of people that he never met, sure. Should there have been such a huge outcry from the public about it though that ended up getting him fired?
Face it, people hear the word and make it a far bigger deal then it really is. We really should grow the fuck up as a society and not let these words bother us so much.
I clearly stated Don Imus under the heading "The n-word isn't the only language getting people in trouble".
I think you should also "face it": people become irrationally upset when they hear certain words. Even if you disagree with them you should respect their views, especially when it's asked of you. There are many careers where you will be expected to refrain from this language.
As for the "retroactive pnishment" comments, Garfield said it himself: It didn't matter to us where or when these actions took place. We just wanted to make sure the allegations were true before moving to act and formally parting ways. And, it should go without saying that if we'd ever known that Orb had used such language in the past, or was prone to using such language, we wouldn't have contracted him in the first place.
If Orb feels this is unlawful he can get legal consultation, have his contract reviewed, and go from there.
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Edit: Not really constructive
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On March 12 2012 08:02 xlava wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 07:42 Doomwish wrote:
Can we just drop this now?
The subject has been beat to a bloody pulp in a long and slow painful, grinding death.
Orb is done as a caster , he never deserved the job in the first place. End of story, lets move on as a community. Chris Brown beat his wife and he still has a job/fans. Why is Orb so special that we need to break out our torches and pitchforks?
Just because a bunch of idiots still like Chris Brown doesn't mean we, the enlightened Starcraft community should give Orb a break.
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On March 12 2012 08:58 iloveAthene wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 08:02 xlava wrote:On March 12 2012 07:42 Doomwish wrote:
Can we just drop this now?
The subject has been beat to a bloody pulp in a long and slow painful, grinding death.
Orb is done as a caster , he never deserved the job in the first place. End of story, lets move on as a community. Chris Brown beat his wife and he still has a job/fans. Why is Orb so special that we need to break out our torches and pitchforks? Just because a bunch of idiots still like Chris Brown doesn't mean we, the enlightened Starcraft community should give Orb a break.
You sound like a member of Queen Azshara's court just prior to the first coming of Sargeras, so full of self-righteous admiration as to be totally blind to the pending storm of smug. But when that storm arrives, only then will we see what remains.
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why is everyone so mad? people use bad words all the time. big deal
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On March 12 2012 09:02 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 08:58 iloveAthene wrote:On March 12 2012 08:02 xlava wrote:On March 12 2012 07:42 Doomwish wrote:
Can we just drop this now?
The subject has been beat to a bloody pulp in a long and slow painful, grinding death.
Orb is done as a caster , he never deserved the job in the first place. End of story, lets move on as a community. Chris Brown beat his wife and he still has a job/fans. Why is Orb so special that we need to break out our torches and pitchforks? Just because a bunch of idiots still like Chris Brown doesn't mean we, the enlightened Starcraft community should give Orb a break. You sound like a member of Queen Azshara's court just prior to the first coming of Sargeras, so full of self-righteous admiration as to be totally blind to the pending storm of smug. But when that storm arrives, only then will we see what remains.
We shall ^^
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First off, a company can and should decide to keep or fire people as they see fit.
This said, the "well written" wall of text of the OP that I painstakingly read in it's entirety is, I hope, a clumsy attempt at good PR from someone that is not very good at it.
This is literally digging down their own hole, and setting very dangerous precedents for themselves.
The post clearly indicates that Orb was fired for his language, and nothing else, and that the moral stance of the company, and of it's CEO could not, and would not tolerate them.
This is respectable position, albeit there is some serious issues with America PC extremism but that's a debate of idea, and they are entitled to their opinion.
To dig themselves even deeper, they specifically add that faggot should be treated in the same way and is equally as bad (equality is a nice thing indeed)
To finish it off, we are treated to a feel good little bit about how great the community is and how proud they are, and we should be, to be a part of it.
What is so wrong with it:
- So many people are just not very educated, have an obvious lack of critical thinking, and a well written (in their eyes) text can only be accurate and will simply swallow it up, buy a t shirt and be happy that they support a team with such great moral values, this is sickening, but this society and this is what marketing and PR existence rely on, so the goal was reached... well, not exactly.
- Without being a full time SC2 follower, I have seen and heard a bit from other members of this organization, and well, it's been sometimes cringe worthy.
* EGIncontrol has to be the less educated people I have heard talking on any SC2 related content, he has made use of offsenive stereotypes while referring to Europe and European people on occasion and just a host of other offensive things ( some SOTG, NASL panel that I can remember at leat)
While it is obviously due to a lack of education, this is not an excuse in itself
* EGIdra / Huk, well they rage, not a problem for me, not a problem for most people, but they use offensive words, fags, retads, hell, those are incredibly offensive (remember, equality is a nice thing)
The only reason they are treated differently, is simply the impact to the business, but with the precedent that was set by this long OP, if anyone seriously wants to call them up on it and send those to their beloved sponsors, EG would end up in a very difficult position.
I, for one, certainly hopes someone does it, because statements like Mr' Garfield's are offensive to any critically thinking person.and this is something that would make me proud of part of the community.
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On March 12 2012 09:24 Flwz wrote:
First off, a company can and should decide to keep or fire people as they see fit.
This said, the "well written" wall of text of the OP that I painstakingly read in it's entirety is, I hope, a clumsy attempt at good PR from someone that is not very good at it.
This is literally digging down their own hole, and setting very dangerous precedents for themselves.
The post clearly indicates that Orb was fired for his language, and nothing else, and that the moral stance of the company, and of it's CEO could not, and would not tolerate them.
This is respectable position, albeit there is some serious issues with America PC extremism but that's a debate of idea, and they are entitled to their opinion.
To dig themselves even deeper, they specifically add that faggot should be treated in the same way and is equally as bad (equality is a nice thing indeed)
To finish it off, we are treated to a feel good little bit about how great the community is and how proud they are, and we should be, to be a part of it.
What is so wrong with it:
- So many people are just not very educated, have an obvious lack of critical thinking, and a well written (in their eyes) text can only be accurate and will simply swallow it up, buy a t shirt and be happy that they support a team with such great moral values, this is sickening, but this society and this is what marketing and PR existence rely on, so the goal was reached... well, not exactly.
- Without being a full time SC2 follower, I have seen and heard a bit from other members of this organization, and well, it's been sometimes cringe worthy.
* EGIncontrol has to be the less educated people I have heard talking on any SC2 related content, he has made use of offsenive stereotypes while referring to Europe and European people on occasion and just a host of other offensive things ( some SOTG, NASL panel that I can remember at leat)
While it is obviously due to a lack of education, this is not an excuse in itself
* EGIdra / Huk, well they rage, not a problem for me, not a problem for most people, but they use offensive words, fags, retads, hell, those are incredibly offensive (remember, equality is a nice thing)
The only reason they are treated differently, is simply the impact to the business, but with the precedent that was set by this long OP, if anyone seriously wants to call them up on it and send those to their beloved sponsors, EG would end up in a very difficult position.
I, for one, certainly hopes someone does it, because statements like Mr' Garfield's are offensive to any critically thinking person.and this is something that would make me proud of part of the community.
Well atleast the first line of this post wasn't silly.
User was warned for this post
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Most of the time nowdays its the one hearing the word that gives it meaning and not the one saying it.
The N word is bad when its directly aimed at a black person with intent to harm that person. If its not it should just be left alone. Why would you take offense for some random word told to a random person? Words dont have more meaning then you give them.
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On March 12 2012 08:02 xlava wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 07:42 Doomwish wrote:
Can we just drop this now?
The subject has been beat to a bloody pulp in a long and slow painful, grinding death.
Orb is done as a caster , he never deserved the job in the first place. End of story, lets move on as a community. Chris Brown beat his wife and he still has a job/fans. Why is Orb so special that we need to break out our torches and pitchforks?
If there was a 'Chris Brown' of the SC2 community, I hope that we would run that fucker out of town and he accidentally got hit by a bus. Just saying.
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On March 12 2012 04:26 TheAlchemist89 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 04:17 Blardy wrote:
Racism will forever exist when people get offended by words. Racism was (and is in some places of the world) far more than words. While it may be unrealistic to dig up a battle each time a racial term is uttered, anger against it is a good thing, not a bad thing. Would be a shame to move backwards if we forget what ugliness can come of the words. I agree the whole situation was blown out of proportion, but if orb wanted to be a public figure... he really should have gotten a handle on this stuff. I realize it all happened in the past, but he didn't rise to fame overnight either.
But it wasnt even close to racism. Who actually believe that after Orb used the word nigger that he was racist? Anyone?
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On March 12 2012 08:58 iloveAthene wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 08:02 xlava wrote:On March 12 2012 07:42 Doomwish wrote:
Can we just drop this now?
The subject has been beat to a bloody pulp in a long and slow painful, grinding death.
Orb is done as a caster , he never deserved the job in the first place. End of story, lets move on as a community. Chris Brown beat his wife and he still has a job/fans. Why is Orb so special that we need to break out our torches and pitchforks? Just because a bunch of idiots still like Chris Brown doesn't mean we, the enlightened Starcraft community should give Orb a break.
He raged on ladder. WOW OMG GET THE FUCK OUT OF OUR COMMUNITY!!!!
I really don't know how people can seriously be mad at this. Everyone has raged on ladder and juts because the SC community needed its weekly drama people dug as hard as they could for old replays of orb raging. Then demanding he be fired for raging on ladder????
We need more casters like orb who can sound excited and actually know what he is talking about as well.
So silly that a bunch of people QQ'ing got him fired.
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On March 12 2012 10:22 Za7oX wrote:
He raged on ladder.
Raging on ladder is fine. Using racial slurs to do it isn't.
As Alex pointed out in the OP, using that particular slur is uniquely offensive in the context of American culture. If you're not deeply familiar with the history of how it was used to marginalize freed slaves and their descendants here, you may not get the message.
Edit: I've said it before, but I honestly think that if he'd owned up to it, said he was wrong, and apologized, EG possibly wouldn't have fired him. However, he stated that it was someone else sharing his account who was responsible for saying those things, then admitted that wasn't the case -- and that's a pretty bad position to be in as an employee of any organization.
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I am very disappointed with EG's overreaction to this incident. This is a very ugly way to deal with things, digging in someone's past, making such decisions based upon what the guy was doing privately.
EG has no sense of privacy and it seems that it is going globally extinct. Looks like we are heading in this direction:
http://current.com/technology/92964818_teacher-fired-for-having-facebook-photo-with-two-glasses-of-alcohol.htm
I can see people getting fired for being skeptical towards global warming in just a couple of years. I don't like the way things roll.
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On March 12 2012 10:37 scypio wrote:I am very disappointed with EG's overreaction to this incident. This is a very ugly way to deal with things, digging in someone's past, making such decisions based upon what the guy was doing privately. EG has no sense of privacy and it seems that it is going globally extinct. Looks like we are heading in this direction: http://current.com/technology/92964818_teacher-fired-for-having-facebook-photo-with-two-glasses-of-alcohol.htmI can see people getting fired for being skeptical towards global warming in just a couple of years. I don't like the way things roll.
hear hear! what happened to the good old days where people just came out and apologized...
I too think this situation is overreaction
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On March 12 2012 10:37 scypio wrote:I am very disappointed with EG's overreaction to this incident. This is a very ugly way to deal with things, digging in someone's past, making such decisions based upon what the guy was doing privately. EG has no sense of privacy and it seems that it is going globally extinct. Looks like we are heading in this direction: http://current.com/technology/92964818_teacher-fired-for-having-facebook-photo-with-two-glasses-of-alcohol.htmI can see people getting fired for being skeptical towards global warming in just a couple of years. I don't like the way things roll.
I really have to question where the line will be drawn, in Orb's case he had been ENTIRELY professional on camera (where it mostly matters) and things from his distant (relatively) past have cropped up and cut his career at the jugular.
Orb is a FANTASTIC caster, my second favorite behind Sir Sean Plott, and it saddens me to see my favorite team boot him for something so utterly insignificant.
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1. Wow I can't believe this thread is still going.
2. I do have one question now: Why are we so OK with raging at all? I mean, if you're an adult it seems to me like you should be able to maintain SOME level headedness when playing a video game. The stakes aren't really very high at all so it doesn't make sense to me that an adult would fly off the handle at a loss.
I don't mean we should completely punish or berate ragers by any means but when we see raging we should probably be raising an eyebrow and telling them to grow up.
And if you're raging SO hard that you let completely inappropriate words slip out then you REALLY need to rethink how you behave and you probably need to take a break and get some perspective.
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Now everyone wonders why politicians LIE. its because if they fess they get ripped apart. I hope you're all happy, especially Alex for his wonderful PR job.
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On March 12 2012 10:57 Klondikebar wrote:
1. Wow I can't believe this thread is still going.
2. I do have one question now: Why are we so OK with raging at all? I mean, if you're an adult it seems to me like you should be able to maintain SOME level headedness when playing a video game. The stakes aren't really very high at all so it doesn't make sense to me that an adult would fly off the handle at a loss.
I don't mean we should completely punish or berate ragers by any means but when we see raging we should probably be raising an eyebrow and telling them to grow up.
And if you're raging SO hard that you let completely inappropriate words slip out then you REALLY need to rethink how you behave and you probably need to take a break and get some perspective.
His punishment was way too harsh considering that this happened long before he joined EG and that he displayed perfect professionalism during periods where it would be required (and if you consider his manner on his personal stream, you would appreciate that he DOES exercise self control to be able to be as professional as he is on-air) which is what many of us are really sad about.
I know I am at least.
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EPT
