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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST |
On March 12 2012 09:02 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 08:58 iloveAthene wrote:On March 12 2012 08:02 xlava wrote:On March 12 2012 07:42 Doomwish wrote:
Can we just drop this now?
The subject has been beat to a bloody pulp in a long and slow painful, grinding death.
Orb is done as a caster , he never deserved the job in the first place. End of story, lets move on as a community. Chris Brown beat his wife and he still has a job/fans. Why is Orb so special that we need to break out our torches and pitchforks? Just because a bunch of idiots still like Chris Brown doesn't mean we, the enlightened Starcraft community should give Orb a break. You sound like a member of Queen Azshara's court just prior to the first coming of Sargeras, so full of self-righteous admiration as to be totally blind to the pending storm of smug. But when that storm arrives, only then will we see what remains.
i lvoe this community
no where else will you find people making refrences to games to get there point across
and them being actually understood
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On March 12 2012 11:04 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 09:02 farvacola wrote:On March 12 2012 08:58 iloveAthene wrote:On March 12 2012 08:02 xlava wrote:On March 12 2012 07:42 Doomwish wrote:
Can we just drop this now?
The subject has been beat to a bloody pulp in a long and slow painful, grinding death.
Orb is done as a caster , he never deserved the job in the first place. End of story, lets move on as a community. Chris Brown beat his wife and he still has a job/fans. Why is Orb so special that we need to break out our torches and pitchforks? Just because a bunch of idiots still like Chris Brown doesn't mean we, the enlightened Starcraft community should give Orb a break. You sound like a member of Queen Azshara's court just prior to the first coming of Sargeras, so full of self-righteous admiration as to be totally blind to the pending storm of smug. But when that storm arrives, only then will we see what remains. i lvoe this community no where else will you find people making refrences to games to get there point across and them being actually understood
This man earns many nerdcred points for this reference. <3 <3 <3
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On March 12 2012 11:04 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 10:57 Klondikebar wrote:
1. Wow I can't believe this thread is still going.
2. I do have one question now: Why are we so OK with raging at all? I mean, if you're an adult it seems to me like you should be able to maintain SOME level headedness when playing a video game. The stakes aren't really very high at all so it doesn't make sense to me that an adult would fly off the handle at a loss.
I don't mean we should completely punish or berate ragers by any means but when we see raging we should probably be raising an eyebrow and telling them to grow up.
And if you're raging SO hard that you let completely inappropriate words slip out then you REALLY need to rethink how you behave and you probably need to take a break and get some perspective. His punishment was way too harsh considering that this happened long before he joined EG and that he displayed perfect professionalism during periods where it would be required (and if you consider his manner on his personal stream, you would appreciate that he DOES exercise self control to be able to be as professional as he is on-air) which is what many of us are really sad about. I know I am at least.
It wasn't too harsh at all. In every other line of work you can and will be fired for making racist remarks. If EG didn't fire him they would have been the exception, not the rule. And it REALLY didn't help that he lied about it. You can also get fired for lying to your employer.
Methinks a lot of the people in this thread have never had a job.
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On March 12 2012 11:07 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 11:04 Zambrah wrote:On March 12 2012 10:57 Klondikebar wrote:
1. Wow I can't believe this thread is still going.
2. I do have one question now: Why are we so OK with raging at all? I mean, if you're an adult it seems to me like you should be able to maintain SOME level headedness when playing a video game. The stakes aren't really very high at all so it doesn't make sense to me that an adult would fly off the handle at a loss.
I don't mean we should completely punish or berate ragers by any means but when we see raging we should probably be raising an eyebrow and telling them to grow up.
And if you're raging SO hard that you let completely inappropriate words slip out then you REALLY need to rethink how you behave and you probably need to take a break and get some perspective. His punishment was way too harsh considering that this happened long before he joined EG and that he displayed perfect professionalism during periods where it would be required (and if you consider his manner on his personal stream, you would appreciate that he DOES exercise self control to be able to be as professional as he is on-air) which is what many of us are really sad about. I know I am at least. It wasn't too harsh at all. In every other line of work you can and will be fired for making racist remarks. If EG didn't fire him they would have been the exception, not the rule. And it REALLY didn't help that he lied about it. You can also get fired for lying to your employer. Methinks a lot of the people in this thread have never had a job.
He said these things long before he joined EG, I don't think they ever even proved the recent one was even Orb, which makes him lying incredibly debatable.
He didn't make racist remarks on the job, he never has, he has never failed to conduct himself with perfect professionalism when he casts.
In the end what should have mattered was his conduct during his time under EG, and during his previous professional experiences.
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On March 12 2012 11:11 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 11:07 Klondikebar wrote:On March 12 2012 11:04 Zambrah wrote:On March 12 2012 10:57 Klondikebar wrote:
1. Wow I can't believe this thread is still going.
2. I do have one question now: Why are we so OK with raging at all? I mean, if you're an adult it seems to me like you should be able to maintain SOME level headedness when playing a video game. The stakes aren't really very high at all so it doesn't make sense to me that an adult would fly off the handle at a loss.
I don't mean we should completely punish or berate ragers by any means but when we see raging we should probably be raising an eyebrow and telling them to grow up.
And if you're raging SO hard that you let completely inappropriate words slip out then you REALLY need to rethink how you behave and you probably need to take a break and get some perspective. His punishment was way too harsh considering that this happened long before he joined EG and that he displayed perfect professionalism during periods where it would be required (and if you consider his manner on his personal stream, you would appreciate that he DOES exercise self control to be able to be as professional as he is on-air) which is what many of us are really sad about. I know I am at least. It wasn't too harsh at all. In every other line of work you can and will be fired for making racist remarks. If EG didn't fire him they would have been the exception, not the rule. And it REALLY didn't help that he lied about it. You can also get fired for lying to your employer. Methinks a lot of the people in this thread have never had a job. He said these things long before he joined EG, I don't think they ever even proved the recent one was even Orb, which makes him lying incredibly debatable. He didn't make racist remarks on the job, he never has, he has never failed to conduct himself with perfect professionalism when he casts. In the end what should have mattered was his conduct during his time under EG, and during his previous professional experiences.
Orb had a history of making racist remarks and he showed a complete lack of control when he got frustrated. When that came to light, he went from being an investment to a massive liability. And Starcraft 2 was his profession. His behavior in the game is completely relevant to his job.
If he had immediately apologized for what he said and admitted it was wrong and that he'd never do it again, EG might've been able to cut him a little slack. But instead he lied about it, and leveled accusations of slander and witch hunting at people. It made it very difficult for EG to defend.
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On March 12 2012 11:11 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 11:07 Klondikebar wrote:On March 12 2012 11:04 Zambrah wrote:On March 12 2012 10:57 Klondikebar wrote:
1. Wow I can't believe this thread is still going.
2. I do have one question now: Why are we so OK with raging at all? I mean, if you're an adult it seems to me like you should be able to maintain SOME level headedness when playing a video game. The stakes aren't really very high at all so it doesn't make sense to me that an adult would fly off the handle at a loss.
I don't mean we should completely punish or berate ragers by any means but when we see raging we should probably be raising an eyebrow and telling them to grow up.
And if you're raging SO hard that you let completely inappropriate words slip out then you REALLY need to rethink how you behave and you probably need to take a break and get some perspective. His punishment was way too harsh considering that this happened long before he joined EG and that he displayed perfect professionalism during periods where it would be required (and if you consider his manner on his personal stream, you would appreciate that he DOES exercise self control to be able to be as professional as he is on-air) which is what many of us are really sad about. I know I am at least. It wasn't too harsh at all. In every other line of work you can and will be fired for making racist remarks. If EG didn't fire him they would have been the exception, not the rule. And it REALLY didn't help that he lied about it. You can also get fired for lying to your employer. Methinks a lot of the people in this thread have never had a job. He said these things long before he joined EG, I don't think they ever even proved the recent one was even Orb, which makes him lying incredibly debatable. He didn't make racist remarks on the job, he never has, he has never failed to conduct himself with perfect professionalism when he casts. In the end what should have mattered was his conduct during his time under EG, and during his previous professional experiences.
I agree completely, well put. I'm so sick of people making the point of saying how any professional would be fired if they said it in their line of work. He didn't. It was his leisure time. He has done nothing wrong by EG. If EG truly believe he's not a racist and the profanity used was meerly interchangable with any other expletive then there's no reason to fire him. At the end of the day when you bypass the organisation and go straight to the sponsors with scary accusations, decisions like this tend to be made.
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After another day of deliberation, I've decided I can no longer support EG in the same way I have until now. Not because Alex fired orb, but because of his justification. ESPORTS needs to be seen as viable, and to that extent its "celebrities" need to maintain a degree of professionalism -- this includes the very basic, NO RACISM even in your private life, if your private life has the ability to make it public -- any actor who acts like a racist fool does so, at the risk of risking his career. Are you a star like Mel Gibson? Then you'll be fine. Are you a relative no-name like Orb (famous to us TL'ers, but expendable to investors like EG)? Then you're taking A HUGE risk.
However, with that said these are the two points I disagree with:
- The whole n------ being super offensive. No, it's just a word and very few educated people from our generation are that racist. He just said it because it's an offensive word (like cunt, or faggot, in that it both sounds harsh and is perceived culturally as harsh, making it a viable tool to express extreme rage with).
- Him saying that anything you said in the past can be used against you. wtf? then kick out IdrA -- oh wait he's too valuable. the hypocrisy honestly makes me a little mad. you just can't do that, that's unreasonable. what if he had a history of raging (as 95% of sc2's pro gaming population surely does), but manages to temper it once he's in the spotlight? should he still be punished? no.
bonus reason:
- I just was incredibly off-put by the whole tirade on "i'm not black but i'm a black-studies major and blah blah n------ is the most offensive word in the world and i have strong feelings on who should and should not be able to say n----a." there are so many things that disgust me with that, ugh. words should be able to be used by ANYONE, or else you are creating racial differences by allowing one race to say something and another to not. race/racism can be remembered, but it shouldn't be made to be such an obscene/taboo thing the way he talks about it. that's what PERPETUATES racism and things like black history month thru "white guilt" (for the record if it matters my heritage is somewhere in Asia), which intelligent prominent blacks like Morgan Freeman have publicly loathed and decried.
racism was a real problem, it's less of a problem now. stuff like The Boondocks celebrates the issue with great class/humor/approachability -- I guarantee you nobody who enjoys that show actually hates black people. Stuff like Alex's paragraph just makes race and n------ and nigga seem like such big deals that it's only going to perpetuate this bullshit for more and more generations, rather than the way our youth jokes about it and white kids and asian kids say 'nigga' in front of their black friends and everyone gets along because nobody is raised by racist parents in the 60s growing up in segregation and being taught to hate blacks
I'm not sure if I will contact their sponsors, but if I do it will simply be to tell them that I still support them (the sponsors) for all they have done for ESPORTS, the same as I have ever since I found out they did, but that I no longer support EG and it would make me happy to see them support another team (which really isn't the complete truth because I want to see my main man IdrA do well).
yep.
I got a warning for posting in this thread because I was pissed at the OP, and posted without really thinking but this post really sums up how I feel and I think that everyone should read this and really think about it because it is probably the most intelligent thing I have read on this site.
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On March 12 2012 11:19 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 11:11 Zambrah wrote:On March 12 2012 11:07 Klondikebar wrote:On March 12 2012 11:04 Zambrah wrote:On March 12 2012 10:57 Klondikebar wrote:
1. Wow I can't believe this thread is still going.
2. I do have one question now: Why are we so OK with raging at all? I mean, if you're an adult it seems to me like you should be able to maintain SOME level headedness when playing a video game. The stakes aren't really very high at all so it doesn't make sense to me that an adult would fly off the handle at a loss.
I don't mean we should completely punish or berate ragers by any means but when we see raging we should probably be raising an eyebrow and telling them to grow up.
And if you're raging SO hard that you let completely inappropriate words slip out then you REALLY need to rethink how you behave and you probably need to take a break and get some perspective. His punishment was way too harsh considering that this happened long before he joined EG and that he displayed perfect professionalism during periods where it would be required (and if you consider his manner on his personal stream, you would appreciate that he DOES exercise self control to be able to be as professional as he is on-air) which is what many of us are really sad about. I know I am at least. It wasn't too harsh at all. In every other line of work you can and will be fired for making racist remarks. If EG didn't fire him they would have been the exception, not the rule. And it REALLY didn't help that he lied about it. You can also get fired for lying to your employer. Methinks a lot of the people in this thread have never had a job. He said these things long before he joined EG, I don't think they ever even proved the recent one was even Orb, which makes him lying incredibly debatable. He didn't make racist remarks on the job, he never has, he has never failed to conduct himself with perfect professionalism when he casts. In the end what should have mattered was his conduct during his time under EG, and during his previous professional experiences. Orb had a history of making racist remarks and he showed a complete lack of control when he got frustrated. When that came to light, he went from being an investment to a massive liability. And Starcraft 2 was his profession. His behavior in the game is completely relevant to his job. If he had immediately apologized for what he said and admitted it was wrong and that he'd never do it again, EG might've been able to cut him a little slack. But instead he lied about it, and leveled accusations of slander and witch hunting at people. It made it very difficult for EG to defend.
If I'm not mistaken, he still denies that the first allegation (and if I'm not mistaken, the only RECENT one) is himself.
The fact that his non-professional past had such a massive impact on his professional one is disgusting, I don't care that it might be business standard, because it SHOULDN'T be business standard, what one does outside of the professional sphere should be left mostly out of the equation, it disappoints me that people expect every StarCraft personality to be a Paragon of Ultimate Virtue through the entirety of their existence from birth to present.
Their action WAS harsh, suspension would have been a much fairer punishment (a possibly unnecessary punishment) what they did was due almost entirely to community backlash, and that tends to make me ashamed of a part of this community that would so feverishly attempt to slaughter a young man's career over something that in all honesty, should BARELY MATTER.
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On March 12 2012 11:30 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 11:19 Klondikebar wrote:On March 12 2012 11:11 Zambrah wrote:On March 12 2012 11:07 Klondikebar wrote:On March 12 2012 11:04 Zambrah wrote:On March 12 2012 10:57 Klondikebar wrote:
1. Wow I can't believe this thread is still going.
2. I do have one question now: Why are we so OK with raging at all? I mean, if you're an adult it seems to me like you should be able to maintain SOME level headedness when playing a video game. The stakes aren't really very high at all so it doesn't make sense to me that an adult would fly off the handle at a loss.
I don't mean we should completely punish or berate ragers by any means but when we see raging we should probably be raising an eyebrow and telling them to grow up.
And if you're raging SO hard that you let completely inappropriate words slip out then you REALLY need to rethink how you behave and you probably need to take a break and get some perspective. His punishment was way too harsh considering that this happened long before he joined EG and that he displayed perfect professionalism during periods where it would be required (and if you consider his manner on his personal stream, you would appreciate that he DOES exercise self control to be able to be as professional as he is on-air) which is what many of us are really sad about. I know I am at least. if he had a long career that would be difference but jsut becuase hes managed to keep his nose clean for a couple months means nothing it would have been to harsh if they urged everyone to ignore him and urged the community to shun him they didnt all they said was he didnt fit in there organization at this time any other toruny will still be willing to bring him on as a caster It wasn't too harsh at all. In every other line of work you can and will be fired for making racist remarks. If EG didn't fire him they would have been the exception, not the rule. And it REALLY didn't help that he lied about it. You can also get fired for lying to your employer. Methinks a lot of the people in this thread have never had a job. He said these things long before he joined EG, I don't think they ever even proved the recent one was even Orb, which makes him lying incredibly debatable. He didn't make racist remarks on the job, he never has, he has never failed to conduct himself with perfect professionalism when he casts. In the end what should have mattered was his conduct during his time under EG, and during his previous professional experiences. Orb had a history of making racist remarks and he showed a complete lack of control when he got frustrated. When that came to light, he went from being an investment to a massive liability. And Starcraft 2 was his profession. His behavior in the game is completely relevant to his job. If he had immediately apologized for what he said and admitted it was wrong and that he'd never do it again, EG might've been able to cut him a little slack. But instead he lied about it, and leveled accusations of slander and witch hunting at people. It made it very difficult for EG to defend. If I'm not mistaken, he still denies that the first allegation (and if I'm not mistaken, the only RECENT one) is himself. The fact that his non-professional past had such a massive impact on his professional one is disgusting, I don't care that it might be business standard, because it SHOULDN'T be business standard, what one does outside of the professional sphere should be left mostly out of the equation, it disappoints me that people expect every StarCraft personality to be a Paragon of Ultimate Virtue through the entirety of their existence from birth to present. Their action WAS harsh, suspension would have been a much fairer punishment (a possibly unnecessary punishment) what they did was due almost entirely to community backlash, and that tends to make me ashamed of a part of this community that would so feverishly attempt to slaughter a young man's career over something that in all honesty, should BARELY MATTER.
it was not too harsh, all they said was they werent willing to have Orb carry the EG name permamently, they invited him into there house to be the EG official caster essentially anything that comes from his mouth comes out of EGs mouth
any other tournament will still hire him becuase there only interested in bringing him on for a weekend and its far less offical, if Orb goes to a MLG and slips on stream it would hurt MLG far elss then if he slipped during an official EG stream
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On March 12 2012 11:30 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 11:19 Klondikebar wrote:On March 12 2012 11:11 Zambrah wrote:On March 12 2012 11:07 Klondikebar wrote:On March 12 2012 11:04 Zambrah wrote:On March 12 2012 10:57 Klondikebar wrote:
1. Wow I can't believe this thread is still going.
2. I do have one question now: Why are we so OK with raging at all? I mean, if you're an adult it seems to me like you should be able to maintain SOME level headedness when playing a video game. The stakes aren't really very high at all so it doesn't make sense to me that an adult would fly off the handle at a loss.
I don't mean we should completely punish or berate ragers by any means but when we see raging we should probably be raising an eyebrow and telling them to grow up.
And if you're raging SO hard that you let completely inappropriate words slip out then you REALLY need to rethink how you behave and you probably need to take a break and get some perspective. His punishment was way too harsh considering that this happened long before he joined EG and that he displayed perfect professionalism during periods where it would be required (and if you consider his manner on his personal stream, you would appreciate that he DOES exercise self control to be able to be as professional as he is on-air) which is what many of us are really sad about. I know I am at least. It wasn't too harsh at all. In every other line of work you can and will be fired for making racist remarks. If EG didn't fire him they would have been the exception, not the rule. And it REALLY didn't help that he lied about it. You can also get fired for lying to your employer. Methinks a lot of the people in this thread have never had a job. He said these things long before he joined EG, I don't think they ever even proved the recent one was even Orb, which makes him lying incredibly debatable. He didn't make racist remarks on the job, he never has, he has never failed to conduct himself with perfect professionalism when he casts. In the end what should have mattered was his conduct during his time under EG, and during his previous professional experiences. Orb had a history of making racist remarks and he showed a complete lack of control when he got frustrated. When that came to light, he went from being an investment to a massive liability. And Starcraft 2 was his profession. His behavior in the game is completely relevant to his job. If he had immediately apologized for what he said and admitted it was wrong and that he'd never do it again, EG might've been able to cut him a little slack. But instead he lied about it, and leveled accusations of slander and witch hunting at people. It made it very difficult for EG to defend. If I'm not mistaken, he still denies that the first allegation (and if I'm not mistaken, the only RECENT one) is himself. The fact that his non-professional past had such a massive impact on his professional one is disgusting, I don't care that it might be business standard, because it SHOULDN'T be business standard, what one does outside of the professional sphere should be left mostly out of the equation, it disappoints me that people expect every StarCraft personality to be a Paragon of Ultimate Virtue through the entirety of their existence from birth to present. Their action WAS harsh, suspension would have been a much fairer punishment (a possibly unnecessary punishment) what they did was due almost entirely to community backlash, and that tends to make me ashamed of a part of this community that would so feverishly attempt to slaughter a young man's career over something that in all honesty, should BARELY MATTER.
See, here's why I don't think that you've had a career job. I actually work in HR and racism/bigotry is a HUGE no-no. Like, instant termination. And you can bet your ass that we'd not hire someone if we found out they had the nasty habit of making racial slurs when they got mad.
And as a caster your image is important. If, in the past you had a penchant for bigotry, that's going to tarnish your image and you will make a bad caster.
In EVERY SINGLE JOB being a bigot will have an impact on your professional life. This is precisely why the internet is so completely backwards and mind boggling. In every other field if you let those kinds of words slip you're instantly finished. But for some reason, on the internet, not only are they not seen as serious...they're actually defended.
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On March 12 2012 14:14 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 11:30 Zambrah wrote:On March 12 2012 11:19 Klondikebar wrote:On March 12 2012 11:11 Zambrah wrote:On March 12 2012 11:07 Klondikebar wrote:On March 12 2012 11:04 Zambrah wrote:On March 12 2012 10:57 Klondikebar wrote:
1. Wow I can't believe this thread is still going.
2. I do have one question now: Why are we so OK with raging at all? I mean, if you're an adult it seems to me like you should be able to maintain SOME level headedness when playing a video game. The stakes aren't really very high at all so it doesn't make sense to me that an adult would fly off the handle at a loss.
I don't mean we should completely punish or berate ragers by any means but when we see raging we should probably be raising an eyebrow and telling them to grow up.
And if you're raging SO hard that you let completely inappropriate words slip out then you REALLY need to rethink how you behave and you probably need to take a break and get some perspective. His punishment was way too harsh considering that this happened long before he joined EG and that he displayed perfect professionalism during periods where it would be required (and if you consider his manner on his personal stream, you would appreciate that he DOES exercise self control to be able to be as professional as he is on-air) which is what many of us are really sad about. I know I am at least. It wasn't too harsh at all. In every other line of work you can and will be fired for making racist remarks. If EG didn't fire him they would have been the exception, not the rule. And it REALLY didn't help that he lied about it. You can also get fired for lying to your employer. Methinks a lot of the people in this thread have never had a job. He said these things long before he joined EG, I don't think they ever even proved the recent one was even Orb, which makes him lying incredibly debatable. He didn't make racist remarks on the job, he never has, he has never failed to conduct himself with perfect professionalism when he casts. In the end what should have mattered was his conduct during his time under EG, and during his previous professional experiences. Orb had a history of making racist remarks and he showed a complete lack of control when he got frustrated. When that came to light, he went from being an investment to a massive liability. And Starcraft 2 was his profession. His behavior in the game is completely relevant to his job. If he had immediately apologized for what he said and admitted it was wrong and that he'd never do it again, EG might've been able to cut him a little slack. But instead he lied about it, and leveled accusations of slander and witch hunting at people. It made it very difficult for EG to defend. If I'm not mistaken, he still denies that the first allegation (and if I'm not mistaken, the only RECENT one) is himself. The fact that his non-professional past had such a massive impact on his professional one is disgusting, I don't care that it might be business standard, because it SHOULDN'T be business standard, what one does outside of the professional sphere should be left mostly out of the equation, it disappoints me that people expect every StarCraft personality to be a Paragon of Ultimate Virtue through the entirety of their existence from birth to present. Their action WAS harsh, suspension would have been a much fairer punishment (a possibly unnecessary punishment) what they did was due almost entirely to community backlash, and that tends to make me ashamed of a part of this community that would so feverishly attempt to slaughter a young man's career over something that in all honesty, should BARELY MATTER. See, here's why I don't think that you've had a career job. I actually work in HR and racism/bigotry is a HUGE no-no. Like, instant termination. And you can bet your ass that we'd not hire someone if we found out they had the nasty habit of making racial slurs when they got mad. And as a caster your image is important. If, in the past you had a penchant for bigotry, that's going to tarnish your image and you will make a bad caster. In EVERY SINGLE JOB being a bigot will have an impact on your professional life. This is precisely why the internet is so completely backwards and mind boggling. In every other field if you let those kinds of words slip you're instantly finished. But for some reason, on the internet, not only are they not seen as serious...they're actually defended.
People don't get fired from work because some asshole basically claims that someone is racist. People get fired for doing a bad job, or breaking the rules while they are on the job. People especially do not get fired from their job retroactively just because some asshole pulled some dirt on you from a year ago.
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On March 12 2012 14:14 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2012 11:30 Zambrah wrote:On March 12 2012 11:19 Klondikebar wrote:On March 12 2012 11:11 Zambrah wrote:On March 12 2012 11:07 Klondikebar wrote:On March 12 2012 11:04 Zambrah wrote:On March 12 2012 10:57 Klondikebar wrote:
1. Wow I can't believe this thread is still going.
2. I do have one question now: Why are we so OK with raging at all? I mean, if you're an adult it seems to me like you should be able to maintain SOME level headedness when playing a video game. The stakes aren't really very high at all so it doesn't make sense to me that an adult would fly off the handle at a loss.
I don't mean we should completely punish or berate ragers by any means but when we see raging we should probably be raising an eyebrow and telling them to grow up.
And if you're raging SO hard that you let completely inappropriate words slip out then you REALLY need to rethink how you behave and you probably need to take a break and get some perspective. His punishment was way too harsh considering that this happened long before he joined EG and that he displayed perfect professionalism during periods where it would be required (and if you consider his manner on his personal stream, you would appreciate that he DOES exercise self control to be able to be as professional as he is on-air) which is what many of us are really sad about. I know I am at least. It wasn't too harsh at all. In every other line of work you can and will be fired for making racist remarks. If EG didn't fire him they would have been the exception, not the rule. And it REALLY didn't help that he lied about it. You can also get fired for lying to your employer. Methinks a lot of the people in this thread have never had a job. He said these things long before he joined EG, I don't think they ever even proved the recent one was even Orb, which makes him lying incredibly debatable. He didn't make racist remarks on the job, he never has, he has never failed to conduct himself with perfect professionalism when he casts. In the end what should have mattered was his conduct during his time under EG, and during his previous professional experiences. Orb had a history of making racist remarks and he showed a complete lack of control when he got frustrated. When that came to light, he went from being an investment to a massive liability. And Starcraft 2 was his profession. His behavior in the game is completely relevant to his job. If he had immediately apologized for what he said and admitted it was wrong and that he'd never do it again, EG might've been able to cut him a little slack. But instead he lied about it, and leveled accusations of slander and witch hunting at people. It made it very difficult for EG to defend. If I'm not mistaken, he still denies that the first allegation (and if I'm not mistaken, the only RECENT one) is himself. The fact that his non-professional past had such a massive impact on his professional one is disgusting, I don't care that it might be business standard, because it SHOULDN'T be business standard, what one does outside of the professional sphere should be left mostly out of the equation, it disappoints me that people expect every StarCraft personality to be a Paragon of Ultimate Virtue through the entirety of their existence from birth to present. Their action WAS harsh, suspension would have been a much fairer punishment (a possibly unnecessary punishment) what they did was due almost entirely to community backlash, and that tends to make me ashamed of a part of this community that would so feverishly attempt to slaughter a young man's career over something that in all honesty, should BARELY MATTER. See, here's why I don't think that you've had a career job. I actually work in HR and racism/bigotry is a HUGE no-no. Like, instant termination. And you can bet your ass that we'd not hire someone if we found out they had the nasty habit of making racial slurs when they got mad. And as a caster your image is important. If, in the past you had a penchant for bigotry, that's going to tarnish your image and you will make a bad caster. In EVERY SINGLE JOB being a bigot will have an impact on your professional life. This is precisely why the internet is so completely backwards and mind boggling. In every other field if you let those kinds of words slip you're instantly finished. But for some reason, on the internet, not only are they not seen as serious...they're actually defended.
since teh internet is so anonymous swear words are even more prevelant online then anywhere else so you get the curious situation where they literally mean nothing last time i actually had someone rage and swear at me i laughed becuase it was funny seeing someone try so hard so then people forget that not all swear words are equal and start to think that well i can say shit and have no problem why cant i say nigger?
they forget the history of teh word and why its such a big problem
thats why we get cases like Orb who said he said it becuase he realised that normal swears werent enough so he wanted to convey jsut how angry he was which in the normal internet is fine but the problem was casters and players give up one of the biggest defenses of the internet, Anonymity, if Orb wasnt a caster noone would care what he said becuase noone knows him but then he started showing he was and relyed on people knowing who he was and having a possitive opinion of him as what he wants his job to be so without Anonymity to protect him the full weight of society can fall on him
be very careful future casters/players/other notable members of e-sports dont underestimate jsut how big a deal giving up your anonymity is
People don't get fired from work because some asshole basically claims that someone is racist. People get fired for doing a bad job, or breaking the rules while they are on the job. People especially do not get fired from their job retroactively just because some asshole pulled some dirt on you from a year ago.
uh ya they do
also, people didnt claim Orb is a racist, there were no reddit posts taht were "oh orb is a racist i have no proof but you can trust me" they had screenshots of him saying it (i dont think hes a racist for the record) so to take your example and make it true it would be like an employee going to his boss and showing him a tape off one his employees yelling at someone with extremem language for a small mistake, and damn straight that would get them fired
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Raging is spewing hatred at another individual. It's pretty bad and should be taken seriously.
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This is pretty lame indeed. I lost tons of respect for you EG.
Good luck Orb
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Sorry if I sound like an ass, but I'm still not understanding this fully. Orb was out if line, but in my humble opinion idra was out of line at least a often. Why is orb getting fired while idra isn't even asked to make an apology? I'm not following either that much, but I've seen much more bm from Greg
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On March 12 2012 17:54 iokke wrote:
Sorry if I sound like an ass, but I'm still not understanding this fully. Orb was out if line, but in my humble opinion idra was out of line at least a often. Why is orb getting fired while idra isn't even asked to make an apology? I'm not following either that much, but I've seen much more bm from Greg
-Racial slurs are perceived worse than what Idra put out there (off the top of my head he has not made a lot of racist remarks?)
-Idra: makes EG $$$, too many people like him, he gets sponsors attention, he's a top pro-gamer, everyone (fans/anti-fans) watches him
-Orb: ?
I mean, it's pretty much what you expect. I doubt this is a purely moral high ground type of issue.
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Northern Ireland26645 Posts
Pathetic. Great that the participatory potential of reddit and it's userbase now seem solely dedicated to making drama threads to get people removed positions of visibility. How many of these people are genuinely offended at the incident in question, and how many of them just thought 'oh here's a chance to get rid of a caster that I don't like'.
On the issue itself, I'm against EG's decision, but I can at least understand why they did it. I do not believe some egregious miscarriage of justice that has me up in arms and raging, but I do decry the mob mentality that is increasingly ruining these forums and elsewhere.
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This is a joke, you're dismissing Orb over this, really? For someone who claims to be educated in sociology, I'm quite glad we didn't go to the same school, obviously the one you attended failed you severely. I'm disgusted by the gratification a very vocal few are deeming out of this self proclaimed justice. The entitlement people think they have on the internet today is sickening, it's like a docile fly trying to sprout its wings, knowing fully well it can't fly, DEEEERP.
Then again, anyone with an IQ over 5 should be able to understand this pretty well.
Orb makes EG no money, orb is useless thus expandable. Idra is a fucking homophobe(which, according to you is practically the same thing, which it is on the individual level), but he makes money, so clearly hating on the homos is a good thing right? BUT WAIT! In the future we should totally get rid of this too! At least you're smart enough to conclude your post with this, thinking one step ahead like a boss, I salute you. This by default contradicts your entire post and decision, imbecile.
It's funny reading all of the comments claiming they are happy for the "professionalism" EG is showing in this case, I really question the mental state of this entire community, does your brain have difficulty calculating one plus one?
User was temp banned for this post.
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Gratz guys you're totally hurting esports ^_^
Game competitions aren't supposed to be crabby, vapid and drab. Let's mix some self-righteous academic zealotry (the exact reason you were so unpopular in high school) based on extremely shaky theorycrafting with an activity aimed at the 12-19 market. This is exactly what the scene needs, amirite.
When white teenagers watch LoL over SC because they can call each other niggers without being labeled a racist and lynched, your mission will finally be accomplished 
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What Orb did was unforgivable. Not for calling someone on the internet a nigger. Not even for repeatedly lying about it. That just makes him a piece of shit. For giving Reddit a sense that they are not a waste of space. Reddit should never feel like it has been vindicated. Orb is like the shoe bomber. He didnt do any harm, but the rest of us will have to take off our shoes every time we fly in America. Reddit will be able to throw this in our faces for some time.
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EPT
