Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources.
If a management guy who's worked at a company shows up to work still kind of drunk, he'll get off a lot easier than if an intern they just hired does. Is this not obvious?
Let's say he showed up kind of drunk - at his home, on his own time, a year prior.
This is more like showing up to work coked out, or, in the hypothetical situation you're making, being high a year before you were hired. A lot of companies would fire you for that if you'd only been there for a week and somehow it came up that you used to have a coke habit.
edit: at least in jobs where you're under heavy public scrutiny, like orb's
The fact that using the "n-word" out of context in such a way that it has no intended racial implications shouldn't be equated to cocaine use at work. I guess it is, and I'm basically arguing that it shouldn't.
On March 10 2012 04:12 Kresnik02 wrote: Its only me who believes that Starcraft 2 isnt his private life if his job is Starcraft 2?
Yes it is just you. My job is a chef. I don't get fired from my job if there is accidentally a hair in my kids P.B.J. Especially if it happened before I started working there.
If I found out you called your kids niggers and verbally berated them on a regular basis, I'd probably fire you.
Yep this is what bothers me the most. All the black people I regularly talk to don't really seem to mind the word "nigger". It seems as if it's this thing that the so-called white knights are super concerned about in their no-racism idealism when it seriously isn't even that big a deal to the people who it really concerns.
I'm black and the n-word sure as hell bothers me. I think you're confusing "nigga" with the n-word. I know it's a seemingly stupid distinction, but it's a very important one. If you walk up to a black guy and say "sup nigga" he might be a little miffed but not too disturbed, whereas if you walk up and say "sup nigger" (note the emphasis on the "er") you'll probably get smacked or yelled at.
Are you comparing calling a person "nigger" to doing illegal drugs?
And what do you think happens to a management guy who uses those illegal drugs daily, then? If we go by that example.
I compared it to illegal drugs because that's something you're not supposed to do... you're allowed to get drunk when you're not at work, nobody cares about that.
Also if you're important enough a lot of companies will have you go into treatment if you have drug issues, but if you're just some drone, they'll just fire you.
On March 10 2012 01:04 Lunatics wrote: But he was not casting or streaming or anything. This was a private ladder game that he was playing. As in his, his own personal account. His own personal private life. It had nothing to do with his profession which just makes this whole thing even dumber. If he had said that while casting it would be a whole different story.
I think it's fucked up that we live in a society that even when you're in your own private personal life you still have no freedom of speech and have to watch everything you say for fear that someone will save it or remember it and make a big deal out of it later.
Pretty sure after a screenshot surfaced on reddit of him SUPPOSIVLEY saying it, people looked up his account and went back through all his replays and what not until they found another instance of him saying it. Personally I find this 100x more disgusting that a community would go through this much trouble to take someone down when, had that one screenshot not been posted on reddit, there would have been absolutely 0 problem with him. It's so ridiculous.
I was casually browsing the earlier pages and found this gem of a post back there. Re-quoting here because this is absolutely true.
I see a lot of merit in that post, and I agree with a lot of it (especially if the offenses were done a long time ago, and if he's worked hard to maintain a professional image over time), but I want to point out something I disagree with:
Orb has freedom of speech. To say he doesn't is ridiculous. But also realize that what you say (and do) will surely affect how you appear to future employers, and so sometimes you may choose to censor yourself or act a little more mature than you wish you could act in certain situations. Sometimes you want to lash out, but you recognize it's not in your best interest in the long run. That's called being a mature adult.
Orb can always say the n-word- he could have before, and he still can now- but being offensive may very well cause consequences and repercussions that he'll have to deal with. And so you do indeed have freedom of speech in this regard, but in the future you may regret saying stupid things from the past.
On March 10 2012 04:08 branflakes14 wrote: I can't believe people are ignoring blatant double standards and hypocrisy, then turning around and saying EG deserve respect for their actions.
I swear I'm gonna get picked up by a spambot if I have to keep typing this out but here goes:
It is absolutely silly to say that you can't right X wrong because Y wrong happened in the past/is still happening. X was wrong. It was righted. That is good. And you can bet that if IdrA ever says a slur again there is going to be hell to pay both from Alex and from the community. But given how IdrA has cleaned up his act, I don't think that'll be a problem.
What if he calls someone Fat..... that's a slur..... that hurts.
or ugly.
Honestly, we're better off leaving the N-word as the only super taboo word, no need to create more, when actually what we need is less.
Just words, people can hurt other people's feelings in 1000's of ways with all types of words and actions.... its not practical to try and arbitrate it all.
On March 10 2012 03:52 Scootaloo wrote: I wonder if Alex would have fired Idra if he had a degree in homosexual studies...
Edit: guy above me is clearly a troll
IdrA is more important to the team than orb, and "faggot" is simply more accepted than the n-word whether that's right or not.
Be that as it may, Alex says in HIS VERY STATEMENT that he wants the word "faggot" eradicated as well. And yet he continually slaps Idra on the wrist for saying it while immediately firing Orb for saying "nigger" before he was even hired.
Money talks, I guess.
Are you mad that he's doing the right thing from a business perspective or that he's not telling you he's doing it from a business perspective. But of course publicly saying that Idra gets different treatment because he's worth more is not the correct thing to say from a business perspective.
So he's in a catch 22 because doing the right thing and doing the right thing for your company aren't always the same thing.
On March 10 2012 04:08 branflakes14 wrote: I can't believe people are ignoring blatant double standards and hypocrisy, then turning around and saying EG deserve respect for their actions.
I swear I'm gonna get picked up by a spambot if I have to keep typing this out but here goes:
It is absolutely silly to say that you can't right X wrong because Y wrong happened in the past/is still happening. X was wrong. It was righted. That is good. And you can bet that if IdrA ever says a slur again there is going to be hell to pay both from Alex and from the community. But given how IdrA has cleaned up his act, I don't think that'll be a problem.
What if he calls someone Fat..... that's a slur..... that hurts.
or ugly.
Honestly, we're better off leaving the N-word as the only super taboo word, no need to create more, when actually what we need is less.
Just words, people can hurt other people's feelings in 1000's of ways with all types of words and actions.... its not practical to try and arbitrate it all.
Things that are choices (like being fat) or completely subjective (ugly) while mean and probably not appropriate for a public figure as well, are not in anyway comparable to outright bigotry.
Yes. It is practical to arbitrate it all. It's really really not that many words and you really really shouldn't have trouble with it.
The fact that using the "n-word" out of context in such a way that it has no intended racial implications shouldn't be equated to cocaine use at work. I guess it is, and I'm basically arguing that it shouldn't.
Using the n-word as an insult has racial implications, intended or not. Not only is it offensive to black people just to use the word period, but when you call someone a "dumb n-word" it implies that being black is a negative quality.
I don't think orb is a racist, and I don't think he intended any racism at any point, but what he did is still racist. You can do racist things without being a racist, I guess is my point.
While I agree with EG's reaction, this part of the post irritates me:
On March 09 2012 12:42 ottersareneat wrote: My undergraduate degree is in Black Studies, Sociology, and Social Justice.
Do you guys in America really have "BLACK studies" (it's called that way)? And dont think it's racist? I'd say African(-American) would be the pc term.
On March 09 2012 12:42 ottersareneat wrote: My undergraduate degree is in Black Studies, Sociology, and Social Justice.
Do you guys in America really have "BLACK studies" (it's called that way)? And dont think it's racist? I'd say African(-American) would be the pc term.
On March 10 2012 04:08 branflakes14 wrote: I can't believe people are ignoring blatant double standards and hypocrisy, then turning around and saying EG deserve respect for their actions.
I swear I'm gonna get picked up by a spambot if I have to keep typing this out but here goes:
It is absolutely silly to say that you can't right X wrong because Y wrong happened in the past/is still happening. X was wrong. It was righted. That is good. And you can bet that if IdrA ever says a slur again there is going to be hell to pay both from Alex and from the community. But given how IdrA has cleaned up his act, I don't think that'll be a problem.
What if he calls someone Fat..... that's a slur..... that hurts.
or ugly.
Honestly, we're better off leaving the N-word as the only super taboo word, no need to create more, when actually what we need is less.
Just words, people can hurt other people's feelings in 1000's of ways with all types of words and actions.... its not practical to try and arbitrate it all.
Things that are choices (like being fat) or completely subjective (ugly) while mean and probably not appropriate for a public figure as well, are not in anyway comparable to outright bigotry.
Yes. It is practical to arbitrate it all. It's really really not that many words and you really really shouldn't have trouble with it.
Who made those stupid rules ? The mass media corporations ?
Is political correctness the new religion ? A bunch of stupid dogma you're supposed to fallow and not question, otherwise you're excommunicated, just like Orb.
On March 09 2012 12:42 ottersareneat wrote: My undergraduate degree is in Black Studies, Sociology, and Social Justice.
Do you guys in America really have "BLACK studies" (it's called that way)? And dont think it's racist? I'd say African(-American) would be the pc term.
Please feel free to correct me - just interested
Nah. Black is pretty much the accepted term to describe African Americans.
On March 09 2012 12:42 ottersareneat wrote: My undergraduate degree is in Black Studies, Sociology, and Social Justice.
Do you guys in America really have "BLACK studies" (it's called that way)? And dont think it's racist? I'd say African(-American) would be the pc term.
Please feel free to correct me - just interested
I noticed this too, but I think it might actually be a necessary differentiation. African studies would imply studying Africa. African American studies in recent years have been criticized for generalizing all black people in America as being from Africa. Therefore, to study black people in America, calling them black is being more and more accepted since it does not stereotype all black people in America as being from Africa. Hence, Black Studies rather than African American studies.
On March 09 2012 12:42 ottersareneat wrote: My undergraduate degree is in Black Studies, Sociology, and Social Justice.
Do you guys in America really have "BLACK studies" (it's called that way)? And dont think it's racist? I'd say African(-American) would be the pc term.
Please feel free to correct me - just interested
Some people prefer African-American, but a lot of people (myself included) don't like it. I honestly hear "African-American" more from overly cautious white people and black intellectuals than regular black people, who pretty much never use it.
The fact that using the "n-word" out of context in such a way that it has no intended racial implications shouldn't be equated to cocaine use at work. I guess it is, and I'm basically arguing that it shouldn't.
Using the n-word as an insult has racial implications, intended or not. Not only is it offensive to black people just to use the word period, but when you call someone a "dumb n-word" it implies that being black is a negative quality.
I don't think orb is a racist, and I don't think he intended any racism at any point, but what he did is still racist. You can do racist things without being a racist, I guess is my point.
See I don't believe that. Racism is an emotion, a sentiment. You don't do racist things without being racist. If you think that you can, well the discussion stops there unless you can convince me, but what you did is a statement of belief.
When I call my friend a "dumb faggot", the word "faggot" is nothing but an empty shell. If people decide that the word is homophobic, well I disagree. I acknowledge the meaning of the word "faggot", but what actually counts is the intention in what I'm saying. There is no racism or homophobia in my heart, and saying that there is is offensive to me, and a gross misunderstanding of human interaction.
On March 10 2012 04:12 Kresnik02 wrote: Its only me who believes that Starcraft 2 isnt his private life if his job is Starcraft 2?
Yes it is just you. My job is a chef. I don't get fired from my job if there is accidentally a hair in my kids P.B.J. Especially if it happened before I started working there.
If I found out you called your kids niggers and verbally berated them on a regular basis, I'd probably fire you.
I'm no lawyer, but I'm pretty sure that would be illegal.
EPT
