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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST |
On March 10 2012 03:57 corpuscle wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 03:52 Scootaloo wrote:
I wonder if Alex would have fired Idra if he had a degree in homosexual studies...
Edit: guy above me is clearly a troll IdrA is more important to the team than orb, and "faggot" is simply more accepted than the n-word whether that's right or not.
Be that as it may, Alex says in HIS VERY STATEMENT that he wants the word "faggot" eradicated as well. And yet he continually slaps Idra on the wrist for saying it while immediately firing Orb for saying "nigger" before he was even hired.
Money talks, I guess.
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On March 10 2012 04:01 Ansinjunger wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 03:49 AspectOfEternity wrote:On March 10 2012 02:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 10 2012 02:47 battyone wrote:On March 10 2012 02:46 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 10 2012 02:43 battyone wrote:On March 10 2012 02:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 10 2012 02:34 battyone wrote:On March 10 2012 02:32 MrTortoise wrote:
because everyone is looking for someone to crucify? BINGO! Honestly Katu was the first taste of blood, and this is the second. We've started down a very slippery slope, especially when you consider that some major casters have crossed the line before. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyv0c4JU4-M for example). Popularity will let you get away with stuff, but if you're lesser liked or lesser known get ready for the pain parade. *EDIT -- noob question -- any way I can get youtube videos to not auto-embed. I think it looks horrible in this context. :/ There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with this particular video clip. Is excitement banned now? And Katu repeatedly slandering a pro-gamer during a live cast and acting like a complete jackass, despite his co-caster trying to get him to stop several times... he deserved everything he got. Ridiculously unprofessional. There is something wrong with it, but you're biased to see it as something, whereas someone else could take it in the most extreme and offensive way...sorta like what Orb did? Kinda proving my point here a bit. Take it out of context, show it to the mother of a kid with autism or some other mental deficency, and see how THEY take it. So... don't tell someone that he's just excited, and tell them instead that he's purposely trying to offend a kid with a mental deficiency? Oh okay, well then in that case: Fire Artosis. That's pretty damn ridiculous. That's my point. I picked something that none of us would find offensive but could still be taken and blown up the same way the Orb situation was. It is pretty damn ridiculous, no? That's not even close to being similar to the Orb situation. Orb explicitly made certain comments that have racial undertones, and whether or not they're aimed at a black persn is irrelevant. As someone who's worked with/ taught/ tutored students who have a variety of mental disabilities, I don't see a way this could be blown out of proportion to the level of Orb's remarks. Artosis is acting silly and overly happy. He's bouncing around like a little kid. If you think that this should be offensive because mentally deficient people apparently act this way on a regular basis, I think you don't have a good handle on what the difference is between acting like a kid and having a handicap. What's next: you think giggling casters should be banned because you once heard a blind kid laugh, and so therefore it's offensive towards the blind? Someone needs to post the video of Day[9] laughing at himself laughing, because that's clearly offensive towards those of us who are visually impaired. Jesus. There's no slippery slope here. Racism and slander should be removed. Being silly, happy, and energetic: That can stay. Are you serious? "Orb explicitly made certain comments that have racial undertones" You basically just said that Orb explicitly said something implicit. If something 'has racial undertones', it's by definition implicit, if it wasn't they wouldn't be undertones. If what Orb said was explicit then there wouldn't be any debate as orb would have had to have said something along the lines of "I dislike black people, I believe that black people are inferior to other races or people and that you sir for cannon rushing me are analogous to black persons in your inferiority". That's what explict means. Please don't use words you don't grasp the meaning of, doing so offends me. So did you not understand the actual intent of his post? Or are you just having an English 101 fight on the Internet. Replace "explicitly" with "literally," and the post reads the same, without going into your nitpicking specifics. edit: whoops, already done. At least I got it right before being sure, which should confirm the silliness of your response.
Indeed; thank you  It's a pity he was so angry for me using a synonym that he had to write up a whole post about one word, rather than my whole back-and-forth conversation! ::shrugs:: Oh well ^^
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If a management guy who's worked at a company shows up to work still kind of drunk, he'll get off a lot easier than if an intern they just hired does. Is this not obvious?
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On March 10 2012 04:04 Amante wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 03:57 corpuscle wrote:On March 10 2012 03:52 Scootaloo wrote:
I wonder if Alex would have fired Idra if he had a degree in homosexual studies...
Edit: guy above me is clearly a troll IdrA is more important to the team than orb, and "faggot" is simply more accepted than the n-word whether that's right or not. Be that as it may, Alex says in HIS VERY STATEMENT that he wants the word "faggot" eradicated as well. And yet he continually slaps Idra on the wrist for saying it while immediately firing Orb for saying "nigger" before he was even hired. Money talks, I guess.
I agree that it's wrong, but as you said, money talks. I kind of imagine that if IdrA dropped an n-bomb in one of his rages, he'd still be on EG.
orb had been with the team for less than a week though, and as Alex said, they wouldn't have even hired him if they'd known about this.
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On March 10 2012 04:06 SlimeBagly wrote:
If a management guy who's worked at a company shows up to work still kind of drunk, he'll get off a lot easier than if an intern they just hired does. Is this not obvious?
Let's say he showed up kind of drunk - at his home, on his own time, a year prior.
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When I grew up I had a lot of black friends. For some weird reason it was totally ok for them to call eachother "n" and even insulting white people based on the color of their skin. But the very second a white person made a comment towards them they were immediately labeled racists.
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I can't believe people are ignoring blatant double standards and hypocrisy, then turning around and saying EG deserve respect for their actions.
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On March 10 2012 01:04 Lunatics wrote:
But he was not casting or streaming or anything. This was a private ladder game that he was playing. As in his, his own personal account. His own personal private life. It had nothing to do with his profession which just makes this whole thing even dumber. If he had said that while casting it would be a whole different story.
I think it's fucked up that we live in a society that even when you're in your own private personal life you still have no freedom of speech and have to watch everything you say for fear that someone will save it or remember it and make a big deal out of it later.
Pretty sure after a screenshot surfaced on reddit of him SUPPOSIVLEY saying it, people looked up his account and went back through all his replays and what not until they found another instance of him saying it. Personally I find this 100x more disgusting that a community would go through this much trouble to take someone down when, had that one screenshot not been posted on reddit, there would have been absolutely 0 problem with him. It's so ridiculous.
I was casually browsing the earlier pages and found this gem of a post back there. Re-quoting here because this is absolutely true.
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On March 10 2012 04:02 Aunvilgod wrote:
Very nice. People who can´t control their negativity should not be casters.
Do you know this relatively well-known caster called Artosis? Do you know what he was best-known for in Brood War?
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I believe this is very well decided, the post is very well-written and very informative and easy to comprehend. Thanks to OP for making everything clear!
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On March 10 2012 04:07 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 04:06 SlimeBagly wrote:
If a management guy who's worked at a company shows up to work still kind of drunk, he'll get off a lot easier than if an intern they just hired does. Is this not obvious? Let's say he showed up kind of drunk - at his home, on his own time, a year prior.
This is more like showing up to work coked out, or, in the hypothetical situation you're making, being high a year before you were hired. A lot of companies would fire you for that if you'd only been there for a week and somehow it came up that you used to have a coke habit.
edit: at least in jobs where you're under heavy public scrutiny, like orb's
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On March 10 2012 04:08 Creem wrote:
When I grew up I had a lot of black friends. For some weird reason it was totally ok for them to call eachother "n" and even insulting white people based on the color of their skin. But the very second a white person made a comment towards them they were immediately labeled racists.
Yep this is what bothers me the most. All the black people I regularly talk to don't really seem to mind the word "nigger". It seems as if it's this thing that the so-called white knights are super concerned about in their no-racism idealism when it seriously isn't even that big a deal to the people who it really concerns.
On March 10 2012 04:11 corpuscle wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 04:07 Djzapz wrote:On March 10 2012 04:06 SlimeBagly wrote:
If a management guy who's worked at a company shows up to work still kind of drunk, he'll get off a lot easier than if an intern they just hired does. Is this not obvious? Let's say he showed up kind of drunk - at his home, on his own time, a year prior. This is more like showing up to work coked out, or, in the hypothetical situation you're making, being high a year before you were hired. A lot of companies would fire you for that if you'd only been there for a week and somehow it came up that you used to have a coke habit.
Are you comparing calling a person "nigger" to doing illegal drugs?
And what do you think happens to a management guy who uses those illegal drugs daily, then? If we go by that example.
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On March 10 2012 04:09 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 04:02 Aunvilgod wrote:
Very nice. People who can´t control their negativity should not be casters. Do you know this relatively well-known caster called Artosis? Do you know what he was best-known for in Brood War?
Losing to Day9 a whole bunch?
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Its only me who believes that Starcraft 2 isnt his private life if his job is Starcraft 2?
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On March 10 2012 04:08 branflakes14 wrote:
I can't believe people are ignoring blatant double standards and hypocrisy, then turning around and saying EG deserve respect for their actions.
I swear I'm gonna get picked up by a spambot if I have to keep typing this out but here goes:
It is absolutely silly to say that you can't right X wrong because Y wrong happened in the past/is still happening. X was wrong. It was righted. That is good. And you can bet that if IdrA ever says a slur again there is going to be hell to pay both from Alex and from the community. But given how IdrA has cleaned up his act, I don't think that'll be a problem.
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This was handled poorly by orb (especially the lying, misdirecting), and I completely agree that EG made the correct decision to dismiss him. However, their hypocrisy in turning a blind eye/deaf ear towards hurtful speech made by their own players is highly disappointing, and for all the words that went into the OP, I simply cannot believe that this decision was arrived at based on anything other than the cold, hard $. If orb were a SC personality that brought 20k viewers on his stream, I do not think he would have been dismissed.
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On March 10 2012 04:12 Kresnik02 wrote:
Its only me who believes that Starcraft 2 isnt his private life if his job is Starcraft 2?
Yes it is just you. My job is a chef. I don't get fired from my job if there is accidentally a hair in my kids P.B.J. Especially if it happened before I started working there.
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On March 10 2012 04:07 corpuscle wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 04:04 Amante wrote:On March 10 2012 03:57 corpuscle wrote:On March 10 2012 03:52 Scootaloo wrote:
I wonder if Alex would have fired Idra if he had a degree in homosexual studies...
Edit: guy above me is clearly a troll IdrA is more important to the team than orb, and "faggot" is simply more accepted than the n-word whether that's right or not. Be that as it may, Alex says in HIS VERY STATEMENT that he wants the word "faggot" eradicated as well. And yet he continually slaps Idra on the wrist for saying it while immediately firing Orb for saying "nigger" before he was even hired. Money talks, I guess. I agree that it's wrong, but as you said, money talks. I kind of imagine that if IdrA dropped an n-bomb in one of his rages, he'd still be on EG. orb had been with the team for less than a week though, and as Alex said, they wouldn't have even hired him if they'd known about this.
It will be interesting to see how EG responses the next time one of their players cross the line. Not all players are treated equally, the same way not all employees are treated equally.
I actually believe that if EG players dropped the n-bomb as an insult, they'd get insta-fired. Saying 'wassup niggas!' doesn't count. They would get a weird look, like, "stop being a jackass".
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Idra has really never said N----- since, or before for that matter, joining EG?
I think this is very unfortunate for Orb that he wasn't slapped on the hand first like Idra was for saying faggot, but maybe it's Idra thats lucky Alex's Major isn't in Homosexual Studies instead of Black Studies.
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Honestly.. this case makes me dislike EG hard core. You sacrifice an employee for shit he has done in the past that might offend some thin skinned PC-fanatics (PC in this case = political correctness).
It nearly makes me go through all media presence of Idra and all other EG guys checking if they have used similar language - EVER.
Things like that make me angry. People acting on words and not on meaning. But words are there to confer meaning and therefore it should be acted upon the meaning and not the wording. Nigger (there - I said it - I'm SUCH a bad person) really is an incredibly weak insult anyhow. Either you are black, then you are part of the African-American population which are in a derogatory fashion called Niggers, or you are not - in which case it's just nonsense. So even if the person called a Nigger is black, it just says that the speaker has prejudice.
What is the difference between a Nigger and an African-American? Objectively there isn't one. The only difference is that the first word is preferred by prejudiced speakers to underline their conviction.
I'm a German. I'm called a Kraut by some random Brit (again.. Brit.. has been used in German WW2 propagande posters.. highly offensive) in the UK. Am I offended? Not really. I'm not happy, but mainly because I can imply that the speaker hasn't got a positive attitude towards me and probably Germans in general. But do I go bonkers and pull the 'OMG! I'm the victim of evil racism!'-card (TM)? Hell no. Because he makes himself look stupid by calling me German in a different way.
I realize, that using Nigger to offend someone white can be seen as an offense to all black people (wait.. black people.. am I allowed to type that?). Yes.. but comeon.. grow a pair. Do I jump and yell every time one person calls another one a Nazi, despite the second person clearly not being part of a fascist regime? Hell no. Words and meaning. The meaning is "I'm angry at you and I wanna express my anger and make you angry too". He could use ANY kind of insult.
So please EG, either fire EVERYONE who has repeatedly insulted ANYONE with choice swear words or stay cool and let the PC-sissies (again - PC is NOT personal computer here) whine and cry.
If you have to single out a single swear word as extra evil, pick 'retard' and 'retarded' because that is actually a really insulting assumption about the targets intelligence and also picking on a group of people that through bad luck (genes/birth defect) are terribly afflicted.
May you be blessed by perspective
Thrombozyt
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EPT
