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Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST |
On March 10 2012 02:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 02:47 battyone wrote:On March 10 2012 02:46 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 10 2012 02:43 battyone wrote:On March 10 2012 02:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 10 2012 02:34 battyone wrote:On March 10 2012 02:32 MrTortoise wrote:
because everyone is looking for someone to crucify? BINGO! Honestly Katu was the first taste of blood, and this is the second. We've started down a very slippery slope, especially when you consider that some major casters have crossed the line before. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyv0c4JU4-M for example). Popularity will let you get away with stuff, but if you're lesser liked or lesser known get ready for the pain parade. *EDIT -- noob question -- any way I can get youtube videos to not auto-embed. I think it looks horrible in this context. :/ There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with this particular video clip. Is excitement banned now? And Katu repeatedly slandering a pro-gamer during a live cast and acting like a complete jackass, despite his co-caster trying to get him to stop several times... he deserved everything he got. Ridiculously unprofessional. There is something wrong with it, but you're biased to see it as something, whereas someone else could take it in the most extreme and offensive way...sorta like what Orb did? Kinda proving my point here a bit. Take it out of context, show it to the mother of a kid with autism or some other mental deficency, and see how THEY take it. So... don't tell someone that he's just excited, and tell them instead that he's purposely trying to offend a kid with a mental deficiency? Oh okay, well then in that case: Fire Artosis. That's pretty damn ridiculous. That's my point. I picked something that none of us would find offensive but could still be taken and blown up the same way the Orb situation was. It is pretty damn ridiculous, no? That's not even close to being similar to the Orb situation. Orb explicitly made certain comments that have racial undertones, and whether or not they're aimed at a black persn is irrelevant. As someone who's worked with/ taught/ tutored students who have a variety of mental disabilities, I don't see a way this could be blown out of proportion to the level of Orb's remarks. Artosis is acting silly and overly happy. He's bouncing around like a little kid. If you think that this should be offensive because mentally deficient people apparently act this way on a regular basis, I think you don't have a good handle on what the difference is between acting like a kid and having a handicap. What's next: you think giggling casters should be banned because you once heard a blind kid laugh, and so therefore it's offensive towards the blind? Someone needs to post the video of Day[9] laughing at himself laughing, because that's clearly offensive towards those of us who are visually impaired. Jesus. There's no slippery slope here. Racism and slander should be removed. Being silly, happy, and energetic: That can stay.
Are you serious?
"Orb explicitly made certain comments that have racial undertones"
You basically just said that Orb explicitly said something implicit. If something 'has racial undertones', it's by definition implicit, if it wasn't they wouldn't be undertones.
If what Orb said was explicit then there wouldn't be any debate as orb would have had to have said something along the lines of "I dislike black people, I believe that black people are inferior to other races or people and that you sir for cannon rushing me are analogous to black persons in your inferiority". That's what explict means.
Please don't use words you don't grasp the meaning of, doing so offends me.
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On March 10 2012 03:48 Penecks wrote:
Interesting how many posts start off as "Well I wasn't offended, but maybe it might offend X". Then you get many posters who actually ARE part of minority groups, saying that it didn't/wouldn't offend them. So who exactly are we looking out for here? The people who, supposedly in 50 years will be watching esports on a TV channel and go "Hey! That guy said nigger at some point! I'm not watching this!"?
It's not okay for people to hear a word, but people getting blown up on screen and exploding in bursts of blood and violence is okay.
Will somebody please think of the children?
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On March 10 2012 03:38 tofucake wrote:Okay people let's get something cleared up: homophobia and prejudice against homosexuals are different things. Saying faggot doesn't mean you're homophobic, it means you're prejudiced. A homophobe would not say faggot because it would involve thinking about homosexuals, which is terrifying. Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 01:53 Zaros wrote:
because people are regularly victims of homophobia and racism... like that, you can't be a victim of someone being terrified of you. Spiders are not victims of my arachnophobia, I am the victim of my arachnophobia. People are regularly victims of self-serving assholes with a prejudice against some particular group of people.
Of all the insane responses to this issue that may just be the craziest.
You're taking 'phobia' way too literally and you're applying bizarre logic.
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Hi teamliquid. I want to start off with saying that I've always considered the starcraft community to be a very helpful and nice community. I greatly enjoy the starcraft game and I have always tried to get my friends to play and enjoy it as well. I had finally convinced one of my friends to try it out, and he also greatly enjoyed it and thought that it was fun. He bought starcraft and a few days after that, I invited him over to my house to see me play and so I could coach him.
In that time, I was laddering so he could see more high-level strategies. I encountered orb on the ladder. After beating him in a long hard-fought macro game, I was barraged with a ton of different racial and sexual slurs that really hurt. He constantly used the word "nigger" and "faggot". My friend is of african-american descent. After seeing this, my friend turned to me and said "I don't want to play this game if this is what the starcraft community is like."
He has not been on ever since that day. I know its not just orb and many people also react like this when they lose, but you need to think and know that there is another human being behind that computer screen and blindly calling them a "niggerfaggot" is hurtful and does not help at all.
How many other people do you think have quit starcraft because of racial and sexual insults like this? For Starcraft to grow, we can't have people like orb being accepted and looked up to in the community. Especially not in a prominent position such as a caster on a famous team.
Thanks for listening. I know this will most likely be buried underneath the many many posts that come to teamliquid, but if even one person spends the time reading this and understands, then I will be happy.
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First, I don't agree with EG on their decision, Alex admits to giving Idra a minor scolding if he calls people faggots, giving Orb the boot emediatly after finding out something he did while not even contracted by EG, and that was clearly a emotional moment gotten out of hand, a single one, of which Idra has had ungodly amounts, yet Orb has to be disgraced and banned.
To me it just smells more like Alex has a crusade to fight that has nothing to do with Orb but more with his personal frustrations and idealism.
A short rant on the offending word in question.
Ofcourse I might be completely wrong here, but I'm assuming most people have been exposed to 'Memetic content', it might come from Reddit, 4chan or some other source but we all know the image macro's, green texts, rageguys and how casually people deal with racism there.
This is obviously a terrible practice, but it shows something important about specifically the internet generations, due to the internet always have been a realm of extremes people simply get desensitized to the historical meaning of words like nigger, the same process the other way around is why black people also casually use the word, often even to describe non-black people, it both cases it's usually the younger generations who are complicit in this.
The simple fact is that to the brains of most young people (unless they have been trained not to do so by getting a college degree in black culture) the word nigger has little meaning, becoming either a name to call your friends or a general derogatory term, and due to the prevalence of it's use it will easily get stuck in your head, blocked out when you're actively thinking but at an extremely emotional moment almost impossible to block out of your vocabulary.
This was clearly the state of mind Orb was in when he made the comment in question, if you've ever watched his streams you should know that he get's angry quite often yet I've never seen him use any racial or sexual slurs, the fact that people without anything better to do had to dig through loads of his replays or VODs to even find something just shows how pathetic this debacle is, aimed more at Orb then anything to do with racism.
I wonder if Alex would have fired Idra if he had a degree in homosexual studies...
Edit: guy above me is clearly a troll
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On March 10 2012 03:51 WesleyLok wrote:
Hi teamliquid. I want to start off with saying that I've always considered the starcraft community to be a very helpful and nice community. I greatly enjoy the starcraft game and I have always tried to get my friends to play and enjoy it as well. I had finally convinced one of my friends to try it out, and he also greatly enjoyed it and thought that it was fun. He bought starcraft and a few days after that, I invited him over to my house to see me play and so I could coach him.
In that time, I was laddering so he could see more high-level strategies. I encountered orb on the ladder. After beating him in a long hard-fought macro game, I was barraged with a ton of different racial and sexual slurs that really hurt. He constantly used the word "nigger" and "faggot". My friend is of african-american descent. After seeing this, my friend turned to me and said "I don't want to play this game if this is what the starcraft community is like."
He has not been on ever since that day. I know its not just orb and many people also react like this when they lose, but you need to think and know that there is another human being behind that computer screen and blindly calling them a "niggerfaggot" is hurtful and does not help at all.
How many other people do you think have quit starcraft because of racial and sexual insults like this? For Starcraft to grow, we can't have people like orb being accepted and looked up to in the community. Especially not in a prominent position such as a caster on a famous team.
Thanks for listening. I know this will most likely be buried underneath the many many posts that come to teamliquid, but if even one person spends the time reading this and understands, then I will be happy.
Man, A grade slandering right here. Post screenshots or it didn't happen.
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I saw an orb in my room at night. It was white and glowing and it was flying around in the room saying all kinds of bad words. I got real scared actually.
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On March 10 2012 03:52 Scootaloo wrote:
I wonder if Alex would have fired Idra if he had a degree in homosexual studies...
Edit: guy above me is clearly a troll
IdrA is more important to the team than orb, and "faggot" is simply more accepted than the n-word whether that's right or not.
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On March 10 2012 03:52 karpo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 03:51 WesleyLok wrote:
Hi teamliquid. I want to start off with saying that I've always considered the starcraft community to be a very helpful and nice community. I greatly enjoy the starcraft game and I have always tried to get my friends to play and enjoy it as well. I had finally convinced one of my friends to try it out, and he also greatly enjoyed it and thought that it was fun. He bought starcraft and a few days after that, I invited him over to my house to see me play and so I could coach him.
In that time, I was laddering so he could see more high-level strategies. I encountered orb on the ladder. After beating him in a long hard-fought macro game, I was barraged with a ton of different racial and sexual slurs that really hurt. He constantly used the word "nigger" and "faggot". My friend is of african-american descent. After seeing this, my friend turned to me and said "I don't want to play this game if this is what the starcraft community is like."
He has not been on ever since that day. I know its not just orb and many people also react like this when they lose, but you need to think and know that there is another human being behind that computer screen and blindly calling them a "niggerfaggot" is hurtful and does not help at all.
How many other people do you think have quit starcraft because of racial and sexual insults like this? For Starcraft to grow, we can't have people like orb being accepted and looked up to in the community. Especially not in a prominent position such as a caster on a famous team.
Thanks for listening. I know this will most likely be buried underneath the many many posts that come to teamliquid, but if even one person spends the time reading this and understands, then I will be happy. Man, A grade slandering right here. Post screenshots or it didn't happen.
What exactly do you want me to post screenshots of? I never intended to bring this day up or even think about it again, until I saw it in reddit about how orb has constantly been doing this and finally received justice for it.
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On March 10 2012 03:49 AspectOfEternity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 02:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 10 2012 02:47 battyone wrote:On March 10 2012 02:46 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 10 2012 02:43 battyone wrote:On March 10 2012 02:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 10 2012 02:34 battyone wrote:On March 10 2012 02:32 MrTortoise wrote:
because everyone is looking for someone to crucify? BINGO! Honestly Katu was the first taste of blood, and this is the second. We've started down a very slippery slope, especially when you consider that some major casters have crossed the line before. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyv0c4JU4-M for example). Popularity will let you get away with stuff, but if you're lesser liked or lesser known get ready for the pain parade. *EDIT -- noob question -- any way I can get youtube videos to not auto-embed. I think it looks horrible in this context. :/ There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with this particular video clip. Is excitement banned now? And Katu repeatedly slandering a pro-gamer during a live cast and acting like a complete jackass, despite his co-caster trying to get him to stop several times... he deserved everything he got. Ridiculously unprofessional. There is something wrong with it, but you're biased to see it as something, whereas someone else could take it in the most extreme and offensive way...sorta like what Orb did? Kinda proving my point here a bit. Take it out of context, show it to the mother of a kid with autism or some other mental deficency, and see how THEY take it. So... don't tell someone that he's just excited, and tell them instead that he's purposely trying to offend a kid with a mental deficiency? Oh okay, well then in that case: Fire Artosis. That's pretty damn ridiculous. That's my point. I picked something that none of us would find offensive but could still be taken and blown up the same way the Orb situation was. It is pretty damn ridiculous, no? That's not even close to being similar to the Orb situation. Orb explicitly made certain comments that have racial undertones, and whether or not they're aimed at a black persn is irrelevant. As someone who's worked with/ taught/ tutored students who have a variety of mental disabilities, I don't see a way this could be blown out of proportion to the level of Orb's remarks. Artosis is acting silly and overly happy. He's bouncing around like a little kid. If you think that this should be offensive because mentally deficient people apparently act this way on a regular basis, I think you don't have a good handle on what the difference is between acting like a kid and having a handicap. What's next: you think giggling casters should be banned because you once heard a blind kid laugh, and so therefore it's offensive towards the blind? Someone needs to post the video of Day[9] laughing at himself laughing, because that's clearly offensive towards those of us who are visually impaired. Jesus. There's no slippery slope here. Racism and slander should be removed. Being silly, happy, and energetic: That can stay. Are you serious? "Orb explicitly made certain comments that have racial undertones" You basically just said that Orb explicitly said something implicit. If something 'has racial undertones', it's by definition implicit, if it wasn't they wouldn't be undertones. If what Orb said was explicit then there wouldn't be any debate as orb would have had to have said something along the lines of "I dislike black people, I believe that black people are inferior to other races or people and that you sir for cannon rushing me are analogous to black persons in your inferiority". That's what explict means. Please don't use words you don't grasp the meaning of, doing so offends me.
Cute, but my use of the word "explicit" was referring to how he obviously (explicitly) typed the words that he did (including "nigger"), whereas any use of undertones or implicit nature refers to the context and connotation in which those words had. It was also in comparison to Artosis never explicitly making any racist/ offensive remarks, nor even doing anything even implicitly similar, and I made arguments and justifications for that difference.
Maybe you should read for context. Ignoring the whole discussion that was going on, trying to sound smug, and not having proper reading comprehension skills offends me.
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On March 10 2012 03:51 WesleyLok wrote:
Hi teamliquid. I want to start off with saying that I've always considered the starcraft community to be a very helpful and nice community. I greatly enjoy the starcraft game and I have always tried to get my friends to play and enjoy it as well. I had finally convinced one of my friends to try it out, and he also greatly enjoyed it and thought that it was fun. He bought starcraft and a few days after that, I invited him over to my house to see me play and so I could coach him.
In that time, I was laddering so he could see more high-level strategies. I encountered orb on the ladder. After beating him in a long hard-fought macro game, I was barraged with a ton of different racial and sexual slurs that really hurt. He constantly used the word "nigger" and "faggot". My friend is of african-american descent. After seeing this, my friend turned to me and said "I don't want to play this game if this is what the starcraft community is like."
He has not been on ever since that day. I know its not just orb and many people also react like this when they lose, but you need to think and know that there is another human being behind that computer screen and blindly calling them a "niggerfaggot" is hurtful and does not help at all.
How many other people do you think have quit starcraft because of racial and sexual insults like this? For Starcraft to grow, we can't have people like orb being accepted and looked up to in the community. Especially not in a prominent position such as a caster on a famous team.
Thanks for listening. I know this will most likely be buried underneath the many many posts that come to teamliquid, but if even one person spends the time reading this and understands, then I will be happy.
thanks for speaking up. I spent the time reading and understanding your post. :D
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122 pages? Is this for real?
I grew up watching movies full of black people saying nigga and listening to hip-hop/rap/whatever albums of black people saying nigga and given that fact I know that its actual meaning is devoid of everything the EG CEO said in the first post but hey, it's his company, his rules.
So yeah, while people are dying of starvation, corporations and tightening their grip on the world and the White House is preparing to blast another country to smithereens, people have time to actually call EG sponsors and complain about nothing.
Still can't believe this got to 122 pages.
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On March 10 2012 03:52 Scootaloo wrote:
First, I don't agree with EG on their decision, Alex admits to giving Idra a minor scolding if he calls people faggots, giving Orb the boot emediatly after finding out something he did while not even contracted by EG, and that was clearly a emotional moment gotten out of hand, a single one, of which Idra has had ungodly amounts, yet Orb has to be disgraced and banned.
To me it just smells more like Alex has a crusade to fight that has nothing to do with Orb but more with his personal frustrations and idealism.
You misunderstand how EG works as a business. They make money primarily from sponsors through their large following and if a significant number of these fans are seriously offended to the point that their sponsors are being contacted directly, they have a serious problem on their hands if they don't immediately address the situation. Its fairly irrelevant what they personally think about it, the community has spoken.
Orb had just been hired, he had little prior reputation behind him. Idra has been hugely popular since the beginning of SC2 and is a HUGE asset for EG in terms of how many people are fans of him. Idra can of course get away with a lot compared to someone new. This is a fact of life, hardly a surprise. Its very naive to think 'but idra said this and he doesn't have a problem'.
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On March 10 2012 03:51 WesleyLok wrote:
Hi teamliquid. I want to start off with saying that I've always considered the starcraft community to be a very helpful and nice community. I greatly enjoy the starcraft game and I have always tried to get my friends to play and enjoy it as well. I had finally convinced one of my friends to try it out, and he also greatly enjoyed it and thought that it was fun. He bought starcraft and a few days after that, I invited him over to my house to see me play and so I could coach him.
In that time, I was laddering so he could see more high-level strategies. I encountered orb on the ladder. After beating him in a long hard-fought macro game, I was barraged with a ton of different racial and sexual slurs that really hurt. He constantly used the word "nigger" and "faggot". My friend is of african-american descent. After seeing this, my friend turned to me and said "I don't want to play this game if this is what the starcraft community is like."
He has not been on ever since that day. I know its not just orb and many people also react like this when they lose, but you need to think and know that there is another human being behind that computer screen and blindly calling them a "niggerfaggot" is hurtful and does not help at all.
How many other people do you think have quit starcraft because of racial and sexual insults like this? For Starcraft to grow, we can't have people like orb being accepted and looked up to in the community. Especially not in a prominent position such as a caster on a famous team.
Thanks for listening. I know this will most likely be buried underneath the many many posts that come to teamliquid, but if even one person spends the time reading this and understands, then I will be happy.
I think it's important for people on TL to be reminded how insular, how sophomoric, and how far removed from mainstream society the SC2 community really is.
I personally think Alex decision to outright dismiss Orb was harsh. But it's decisive and uncompromising and I actually respect him more for it.
He basically drew a line in the sand and said, "I want SC2 to be as inclusive as possible. I don't want to explain why calling people niggers in a rage is 'normal' to the average person, because I don't think it's normal or right at all."
Good for him.
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I have never really been an EG fan, a lot because of Idra's behaviour. After such a great display of character and reflection from Mr. Garfield I will see if I can ignite some passion for the team. I wish the attitude reflected in the post was more pervasive in online communities, I'm regularly dissapointed by reddit for example.
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On March 10 2012 02:53 DrowSwordsman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 02:28 Djzapz wrote:On March 10 2012 02:25 DrowSwordsman wrote:On March 10 2012 02:22 Djzapz wrote:On March 10 2012 02:20 DrowSwordsman wrote:On March 10 2012 02:18 Djzapz wrote:On March 10 2012 02:09 DrowSwordsman wrote:On March 10 2012 02:01 Djzapz wrote:I maintain that you people gave orb the electric chair to soothe your conscience, and should start taking a person's word for what they mean and not what they remind you of. On March 10 2012 02:00 Zaros wrote:On March 10 2012 01:59 sereniity wrote:
[quote]
If we look at it like that... do you mean that a persons head looks like a dick if you call him a dickhead?
Can't believe people think it's so black and white. we arent talking about general insults its fine to call someone and idiot or a prick they dont put down minorities, calling someone a faggot is saying its bad to be gay and calling someone a nigger is saying its bad to be black which is homophobia and racism how is that acceptable? Calling someone a cunt is saying it's bad to be a vagina? That is actually literally what you are saying when you say that to someone. I'm not usually of the opinion that calling someone a cunt is outright sexist (some people do, though) because it's calling somebody a genital (which can be replaced with a male genital) rather than the entirety of a woman, but yes..when you call someone a cunt you're saying it's bad to be a cunt. You don't think it's bad to be a cunt? That's why it's an insult - literally. And not literally in terms of using the term as hyperbole, I mean literally as in taking words in their most true sense without metaphor. That's just the problem with having intellectual discourse about racism/homophobia/sexism, you literally do not understand the words you use in the first place and what they mean - let alone any racial/homophobic/sexist overtones those words might have. Why the hell do you care about words literally mean rather than the intention behind those words? Because you asked a really fucking stupid question. "Am I saying it's bad to be a cunt when I call someone a cunt?". Not going to bother to respond to the rest. Have a good one, dude. Don't be so childish. The answer is no. I'm calling someone a cunt because it's part of a list of "bad words". You're not above me, you don't get to decide what my words mean. Man I'm going to go make a sandwich right now. Wait, that doesn't make any sense in context to responding to your post? Here's what I actually said if you understood my intentions: There is a dictionary for that, and you are correct! I did not write the dictionary. Yeah latch onto a dictionary with very finite and incomplete definitions of words which oftentimes don't take into consideration the world's conjuncture which is what truly defines us. Remain a shallow individual. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Tossinghttp://www.thefreedictionary.com/salad In no way is it worth my time to dismantle why you defining the words 'tossing' and 'salad' (making an obvious reference to the sexual term which would be defined separately from both, with colloquial context involved, much like how when you call someone a racist slur there is colloquial context involved) somehow justifies or changes anything you've said - maybe I should've used the term colloquially instead of literally back there to prevent silly things like this cropping up. If being a 'shallow individual' means I try to do my best to understand the language I use, the context it is used in, and how it might hurt other people whether directly or indirectly - and try to have people think about it on their own, whether they disagree with me or not, then hey man, I'm proud to be a shallow individual. You can be proud of whatever you are, I don't know you and won't pretend to. :shrug:
Sorry for the late response. First I want to state that it's always hilarious to debate against people who consistently dodge arguments by saying "not worth my time" and "I'm not going to talk about this" as you've done twice.
There's a large difference between understanding the language I use, which I generally do, and misunderstanding what other people means when they talk. I know what the word "idiot" means when I call my friend an idiot, but like I said before, I mean something completely different. If some lunatic decides that everything should be taken literally, then my friend should take offense. He doesn't. This applies to any and every term.
Any limits in the use of words are a construct of a sick society which banned word as a cop out instead of tackling the real issues. Seriously, what's this voldemort bullshit.
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On March 10 2012 03:49 AspectOfEternity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 10 2012 02:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 10 2012 02:47 battyone wrote:On March 10 2012 02:46 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 10 2012 02:43 battyone wrote:On March 10 2012 02:42 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On March 10 2012 02:34 battyone wrote:On March 10 2012 02:32 MrTortoise wrote:
because everyone is looking for someone to crucify? BINGO! Honestly Katu was the first taste of blood, and this is the second. We've started down a very slippery slope, especially when you consider that some major casters have crossed the line before. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyv0c4JU4-M for example). Popularity will let you get away with stuff, but if you're lesser liked or lesser known get ready for the pain parade. *EDIT -- noob question -- any way I can get youtube videos to not auto-embed. I think it looks horrible in this context. :/ There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with this particular video clip. Is excitement banned now? And Katu repeatedly slandering a pro-gamer during a live cast and acting like a complete jackass, despite his co-caster trying to get him to stop several times... he deserved everything he got. Ridiculously unprofessional. There is something wrong with it, but you're biased to see it as something, whereas someone else could take it in the most extreme and offensive way...sorta like what Orb did? Kinda proving my point here a bit. Take it out of context, show it to the mother of a kid with autism or some other mental deficency, and see how THEY take it. So... don't tell someone that he's just excited, and tell them instead that he's purposely trying to offend a kid with a mental deficiency? Oh okay, well then in that case: Fire Artosis. That's pretty damn ridiculous. That's my point. I picked something that none of us would find offensive but could still be taken and blown up the same way the Orb situation was. It is pretty damn ridiculous, no? That's not even close to being similar to the Orb situation. Orb explicitly made certain comments that have racial undertones, and whether or not they're aimed at a black persn is irrelevant. As someone who's worked with/ taught/ tutored students who have a variety of mental disabilities, I don't see a way this could be blown out of proportion to the level of Orb's remarks. Artosis is acting silly and overly happy. He's bouncing around like a little kid. If you think that this should be offensive because mentally deficient people apparently act this way on a regular basis, I think you don't have a good handle on what the difference is between acting like a kid and having a handicap. What's next: you think giggling casters should be banned because you once heard a blind kid laugh, and so therefore it's offensive towards the blind? Someone needs to post the video of Day[9] laughing at himself laughing, because that's clearly offensive towards those of us who are visually impaired. Jesus. There's no slippery slope here. Racism and slander should be removed. Being silly, happy, and energetic: That can stay. Are you serious? "Orb explicitly made certain comments that have racial undertones" You basically just said that Orb explicitly said something implicit. If something 'has racial undertones', it's by definition implicit, if it wasn't they wouldn't be undertones. If what Orb said was explicit then there wouldn't be any debate as orb would have had to have said something along the lines of "I dislike black people, I believe that black people are inferior to other races or people and that you sir for cannon rushing me are analogous to black persons in your inferiority". That's what explict means. Please don't use words you don't grasp the meaning of, doing so offends me.
So did you not understand the actual intent of his post? Or are you just having an English 101 fight on the Internet. Replace "explicitly" with "literally," and the post reads the same, without going into your nitpicking specifics.
edit: whoops, already done. At least I got it right before being sure, which should confirm the silliness of your response.
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On March 10 2012 03:51 WesleyLok wrote:
Hi teamliquid. I want to start off with saying that I've always considered the starcraft community to be a very helpful and nice community. I greatly enjoy the starcraft game and I have always tried to get my friends to play and enjoy it as well. I had finally convinced one of my friends to try it out, and he also greatly enjoyed it and thought that it was fun. He bought starcraft and a few days after that, I invited him over to my house to see me play and so I could coach him.
In that time, I was laddering so he could see more high-level strategies. I encountered orb on the ladder. After beating him in a long hard-fought macro game, I was barraged with a ton of different racial and sexual slurs that really hurt. He constantly used the word "nigger" and "faggot". My friend is of african-american descent. After seeing this, my friend turned to me and said "I don't want to play this game if this is what the starcraft community is like."
He has not been on ever since that day. I know its not just orb and many people also react like this when they lose, but you need to think and know that there is another human being behind that computer screen and blindly calling them a "niggerfaggot" is hurtful and does not help at all.
How many other people do you think have quit starcraft because of racial and sexual insults like this? For Starcraft to grow, we can't have people like orb being accepted and looked up to in the community. Especially not in a prominent position such as a caster on a famous team.
Thanks for listening. I know this will most likely be buried underneath the many many posts that come to teamliquid, but if even one person spends the time reading this and understands, then I will be happy.
Wow, what a good example of tangible negative effects of terrible BM.
Honestly, it's pretty clear that orb has become something of a scapegoat because he wasn't quite valuable or liked enough to get away with the stuff that many other streamers routinely do. But I would venture that we will see a big drawback of this kind of language from notable BMers, even if its just for fear of backlash. So I am very happy it panned out the way it did for Orb. I think this scandal will help progress the professionalism and of celebrity sc players, maybe one day they will treat their opponents the way they do in real life.
Thanks for sharing Wesley.
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Very nice. People who can´t control their negativity should not be casters.
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EPT
