|
Alex is verbose, and you owe it to yourself (and the rest of us) to read the statement in its entirety. Remember, when making comments/claims to provide proper evidence, facts etc. Arguments based on incorrect assumptions, facts and straw men, will be dealt with swiftly. If in doubt, PM a mod or ask IRC. Do NOT spread misinformation, when in doubt, check your sources. In short, be smart. Alex comments on Idra: Orbs Statement: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=319038Personal attacks against other posters in this thread will be met with a ban -- 14:20 KST |
|
|
On March 09 2012 23:01 DR.Ham wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 22:55 Tobberoth wrote:On March 09 2012 22:39 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 22:38 Tobberoth wrote:On March 09 2012 22:35 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 22:34 Tobberoth wrote:
What people need to realize is that "gay" and "nigger" are already insults like "retard" or "dumbass". Yeah, they became insults because of homophobia and racism, people who hated black people called people they disliked "nigger" as an insult. That doesn't mean someone today using those words as insults are racist or homophobic, they are just using known insults. If you call someone "idiot", do you literally think of "a person of the lowest order in a former and discarded classification of mental retardation, having a mental age of less than three years old and an intelligence quotient under 25."? No? Because that is what it means and where the insult comes from. But you don't know that, you just need an insult and say what comes to mind. Same with people who use "nigger" as an insult, they aren't literally saying "you're bad, so you're a nigger because blacks are bad and so are you", they are just using an insult which they consider strong. I think retard is a stronger insult than idiot, but if you go by the historical meaning of the terms, idiot is actually far worse. But we DON'T go by historical meanings. They are still racist and homophobic just stop being biggoted and realise that >.> . No they aren't. You're misunderstanding their use of language and attributing views to them they might very well not have. i understand they may not mean it in a homophobic sense but the word itself is homophobic and downgrading. That is subjective. Saying someone is "gay" as an insult doesn't have to be homophobic, even though it certainly could be in some contexts. We can all agree that it's because of homophobia that the word is even considered an insult, but this is historical fact and it's subjective how much we have to respect that. Personally, I feel like we should try to stop words from becoming insults based on such things as racism, homophobia and antifeminism... but I feel it's WAAY to late to do anything about "gay" and "nigger", those words have been considered insults for longer as we've been alive. All you have to do is accept that they are mere insults, and the problem basically disappears, until people become really offended and sensitive about it. Isn't this just blaming the victim (the people who are offended) rather than the perpetrator (the people using racist/homophobic language)?
Its about intent.
If someone meant something to be offensive and the other person doesnt take offence the remark is still offensive.
If someone did not mean offence but the other guy takers offence then he is being over sensitive.
|
On March 09 2012 23:01 MrTortoise wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 22:41 DR.Ham wrote:On March 09 2012 22:29 MrTortoise wrote:On March 09 2012 22:24 DR.Ham wrote:On March 09 2012 22:12 zul wrote:On March 09 2012 21:51 Jinks_ wrote:
i hate racist people gg no re I hate stupidity. How can one sane man judge orb for a racist based on these screenshots. An Idiot? Yeah, that seems to fit, but not a racist. Narrow-minded people seem to need a target to throw their morals at. I wish people would wake up and see how racism/sexism really works. It`s not the people that make stupid comments, who make it hard for certain groups, it`s the people that smile in your face, but literally throw stones in the way of gays, women, blacks, atheist, muslims or whatever. Huge difference! Let me tell you something. One of my best friends is actually gay and my hetero friends and me used to make some jokes about gay stuff for years. Yeah that seems stupid, but my gay friend didn`t mind and joked back. If he would have a problem with it, we wouldn`t have done. But you know what? I love that guy and so do my other friends. I am pretty sure that all of us would literally fight with and for him, if some stupid fucks would harras him for being gay. Words and actions are not always the same and people should learn the fucking difference. I know this whole topic is very hot and I too am very emotional about it, so I want to apologize for some bad words. But it angers and depresses me, that some people act like the morality police, but than do way worse stuff, when they participate in actions to destroy someones life and get him fired. Use your energy for better things! You have to remember, in any other public sphere, this conversation would not be happening, because he would have been fired and no one would defend him. Remember the golfer who asked Tiger Woods about fried chicken? No bad words, but he was instantly a social pariah. Orb is just being held to the normal standards of society, which we should strive for. We should not (IMO) strive to let people be as crass as possible, we should try and better ourselves. I also feel bad for the guy, but he is young, and will bounce back hopefully. But jsu tbecause he was made a social priah doesnt make that right. You have totally misunderstood what that guy was saying. In short STOP CAUSING FIGHTS YOU IDIOTS, THERE IS NO NEED FOR IT. THe guy was made a social priah because people are ass hats to each other. You ahve a choice, join them and be a hater and live a miserable life that depends on others failures for you joy at their demise or you can just go 'crap that was a really stupid thing to say, do you realise that a lot of bigots will think your racist, are you racist? No, well i strongly suggest you stop usign that word or else we will have to take formal action' I was not causing a fight, I'm not really sure what you mean by that, please don't call me an idiot. This was caused by orb behaving in an unacceptable manner, no one else. I do think what he did was unacceptable, not to try and bring him down, but because that is where my moral compass lies. It certainly does not bring any joy, it's a really sad situation, but if people learn to behave a bit better, something positive can come of it. You do realise that the concept of 'cause' is really broken and ends in an infinite regression right? Cause all depends on where you stop the line of questioning - you just pick somewhere convenient. Yes you are able to take the moral high ground - and maybe you are not just a troll spilling out hate - but you have to admit that a lot of people are. Just look at the pattern, just look at all the rage on reddit. So no nobody caused you to post or to be angry except you and your reactions to the world. You have to take responsibility for that otherwise you have no personality and are simply reacting to the world. Now you can use your moral high ground, but you have to ask what are you trying to accomplish? Because last time i checked action had been taken already. Now people are just arguing about the past, presumably because they like to argue. Sure you can cite morality for the past .. but what about now. I wasn't even calling you an idiot, i used the word idiots which applies to a group. You notice how it isnt immoral for someone to do something moral if they dont have a cohice. The stealing banker is always more wrong than the homeless guy stealing bread to feed himself. The reason why racism is bad is because i treat you differently based on your race, the result of that can be tragic. Calling someone a nigger is wrong and it is racist but on the scale of racism at least he isnt treating the guys he calls niggers as slaves. Not all racism is the same yet people treat calling someone a frog as if i were trying to implement a caste sytem or just plain exercising a right to eugenics. What I see in other cultures (apart from black on white) is a massive amount of racism, seekh, hindu, pakistani, muslim, countries and religions are at each other all the time ... a lot of it is jovial. If you mention black on white racism then all hell breaks lose. Its disproportionate ... all because people in the US insisted on slavery and then even till this day have refused to educate people. Racism is bad because it can be hateful (noone can seriously claim that an englishman, frenchman and a german in a bar having food together taking the mick out of each others cultures and having a great time is bad). The problem is the HATE. What i see in moral objectors is using a moral objection as their vehicle for HATE. That is just as evil as the race crime in the first place. If not moreso because its so hard to get people to admit it. The equivalent argument is lets ban cameras in schools because of all the paedos.
I'm really not a hater, and I don't hate orb, I feel bad for the guy. I don't read reddit, and if people are actually just out to hurt a guy just for laughs, then they really are the scum of the earth. But that doesn't excuse what happened.
Black / White racism brings stronger reaction because of it's horrendous past, and therefore people are less tolerant of it. I don't hate racist people, but I will argue against them.
|
using n---- is better than the actual word? makes me say it in my head either way
yes, i like louis ck's quote.
are you a better human now?
|
On March 09 2012 23:03 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 23:01 DR.Ham wrote:On March 09 2012 22:55 Tobberoth wrote:On March 09 2012 22:39 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 22:38 Tobberoth wrote:On March 09 2012 22:35 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 22:34 Tobberoth wrote:
What people need to realize is that "gay" and "nigger" are already insults like "retard" or "dumbass". Yeah, they became insults because of homophobia and racism, people who hated black people called people they disliked "nigger" as an insult. That doesn't mean someone today using those words as insults are racist or homophobic, they are just using known insults. If you call someone "idiot", do you literally think of "a person of the lowest order in a former and discarded classification of mental retardation, having a mental age of less than three years old and an intelligence quotient under 25."? No? Because that is what it means and where the insult comes from. But you don't know that, you just need an insult and say what comes to mind. Same with people who use "nigger" as an insult, they aren't literally saying "you're bad, so you're a nigger because blacks are bad and so are you", they are just using an insult which they consider strong. I think retard is a stronger insult than idiot, but if you go by the historical meaning of the terms, idiot is actually far worse. But we DON'T go by historical meanings. They are still racist and homophobic just stop being biggoted and realise that >.> . No they aren't. You're misunderstanding their use of language and attributing views to them they might very well not have. i understand they may not mean it in a homophobic sense but the word itself is homophobic and downgrading. That is subjective. Saying someone is "gay" as an insult doesn't have to be homophobic, even though it certainly could be in some contexts. We can all agree that it's because of homophobia that the word is even considered an insult, but this is historical fact and it's subjective how much we have to respect that. Personally, I feel like we should try to stop words from becoming insults based on such things as racism, homophobia and antifeminism... but I feel it's WAAY to late to do anything about "gay" and "nigger", those words have been considered insults for longer as we've been alive. All you have to do is accept that they are mere insults, and the problem basically disappears, until people become really offended and sensitive about it. Isn't this just blaming the victim (the people who are offended) rather than the perpetrator (the people using racist/homophobic language)? My whole point is that it isn't racist/homophobic language just because that's the etymological history. People use these words as generic insults because they are used as generic insults, that's how language evolves and it's perfectly natural.
"Words have no objective meaning so we can use whatever words we want." That's what you're saying and it is patently silly. Sure, language "evolves" but it clearly has not evolved that far yet. Stop trying to justify using hateful language.
|
On March 09 2012 23:05 XRaDiiX wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 23:04 Ballistixz wrote:On March 09 2012 22:59 ePLocust wrote:On March 09 2012 22:55 Ballistixz wrote:On March 09 2012 22:49 DeepElemBlues wrote:again, more bull shit. how many years has he been offensive in this community? just because he has stoped saying the word a few months ago does not make up for the years of him being offensive in the first place. congratz, it took him all this time to finally come clean. and guess what? he is still BM as shit, he just doesnt use the strong terms like "faggot" anymore. but he is still immature, BM, and non respectful to most ppl on ladder. If it bothers you so much that Idra only recently cleaned up his language and you aren't satisfied with the situation, go complain to EG's sponsors about it. Just drop the ridiculous "he's still BM" argument because it makes you look silly and childish. By your standard the majority of players in every sport are immature, BM, and non-respectful, and much more so than Idra, trash-talk on an NBA court or an NFL field is a lot harsher than "You should be ashamed of yourself." Orb got fired for using a nowadays completly generic curse/insult - like faggot, asshole, noob, retard etc. "Nigger" and "faggot" aren't generic curses / insults just because you use them that way. That's what the "cultural standards" part of the OP was about. holy fuck. let me spell it out for you. orb has cleaned up his language as of late and he is VERY professional with his commentary. he hasnt been nearly as BM as he was in the past where these screenshots come from. EG still fires him despite orb going/trying to go clean. keep being biased bro. I know it seems silly but in the real world things that you do and say in the past can and will come back and haunt you this is just an example of this. What I'd like to see is Orb keep casting on his own and really focusing on proving that he's cleaned up and I can forgive him. I agree with the decision made by Alex Garfield and EG here when someone is a recent hire you aren't invested heavily enough in them to keep them in the kind of shit storm that was whipped up. funny, because it hasnt haunted destiny yet, only made him money. even after the mia rose incident he is still on quantic. same for idra. but w/e. What happened? with mia Rose.
basically sexually harrassed her LIVE on stream back in january. he constantly grabbed her boobs and ass despite her obviously being uncomfortable with it and saying to stop it many times. but everyone batted an eye tot hat. go figure. this community makes me laugh honestly.
|
This was the right move, well done EG. I don't hink orb's career must necessarily be over though, he was obviously rather mindless/immature than racist. Still, such a behaviour is inacceptable, EG simply acted professionally by sacking him, even though Alex Garfield's personal views might have played a role as well.
|
On March 09 2012 23:00 Zaros wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 22:59 Greentellon wrote:On March 09 2012 22:54 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 22:52 Greentellon wrote:
Wait, people still get offended by stuff other people say? You are going to have seriously hard life ahead of you if you can't handle a couple of "offensive" words. i can handle being insulted but i think it is unacceptable that homophobic/racist language be used especially by people in public positions. If you have a complete lack of context awareness I guess you could think like that. I dont think context has anything to do with it especially with the words faggot and nigger, but you can carry on thinking what you want.
You just proved yourself wrong by using those words in an exemplary context. Unless of course you meant to insult people with your post.
|
On March 09 2012 23:07 MrTortoise wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 23:01 DR.Ham wrote:On March 09 2012 22:55 Tobberoth wrote:On March 09 2012 22:39 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 22:38 Tobberoth wrote:On March 09 2012 22:35 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 22:34 Tobberoth wrote:
What people need to realize is that "gay" and "nigger" are already insults like "retard" or "dumbass". Yeah, they became insults because of homophobia and racism, people who hated black people called people they disliked "nigger" as an insult. That doesn't mean someone today using those words as insults are racist or homophobic, they are just using known insults. If you call someone "idiot", do you literally think of "a person of the lowest order in a former and discarded classification of mental retardation, having a mental age of less than three years old and an intelligence quotient under 25."? No? Because that is what it means and where the insult comes from. But you don't know that, you just need an insult and say what comes to mind. Same with people who use "nigger" as an insult, they aren't literally saying "you're bad, so you're a nigger because blacks are bad and so are you", they are just using an insult which they consider strong. I think retard is a stronger insult than idiot, but if you go by the historical meaning of the terms, idiot is actually far worse. But we DON'T go by historical meanings. They are still racist and homophobic just stop being biggoted and realise that >.> . No they aren't. You're misunderstanding their use of language and attributing views to them they might very well not have. i understand they may not mean it in a homophobic sense but the word itself is homophobic and downgrading. That is subjective. Saying someone is "gay" as an insult doesn't have to be homophobic, even though it certainly could be in some contexts. We can all agree that it's because of homophobia that the word is even considered an insult, but this is historical fact and it's subjective how much we have to respect that. Personally, I feel like we should try to stop words from becoming insults based on such things as racism, homophobia and antifeminism... but I feel it's WAAY to late to do anything about "gay" and "nigger", those words have been considered insults for longer as we've been alive. All you have to do is accept that they are mere insults, and the problem basically disappears, until people become really offended and sensitive about it. Isn't this just blaming the victim (the people who are offended) rather than the perpetrator (the people using racist/homophobic language)? Its about intent. If someone meant something to be offensive and the other person doesnt take offence the remark is still offensive. If someone did not mean offence but the other guy takers offence then he is being over sensitive.
Sorry, I completely disagree, it's not about intent. You (the metaphorical you, not actually you) don't get to decide what other should find offensive or not. If someone takes offense, you were being offensive regardless of your intent.
I'll stop posting here I think as we are just butting heads and fundamentally disagree it seems.
|
I think that people should look more at the intent than the act itself. In my experience, polite words can be a lot more offensive than this kind of insult. Moreover this kind of word come back in moments of emotion from people who have heard it so many time that they repeat it almost unconsciously. (I know I cursed a lot in elementary school with the worst kind of insults, without undestanding them at all.) I know it's far fetched, but when casters refers to US and EU players as "foreigners" as opposed to koreans, no one take it for themselves as an insult, even if in fact it is one, albeit a far less offensive one (fortunately). So give the guy a break cause I don't think this kind of witch hunt does anything but antagonizing people and ruining communities.
|
On March 09 2012 23:07 DR.Ham wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 23:01 MrTortoise wrote:On March 09 2012 22:41 DR.Ham wrote:On March 09 2012 22:29 MrTortoise wrote:On March 09 2012 22:24 DR.Ham wrote:On March 09 2012 22:12 zul wrote:On March 09 2012 21:51 Jinks_ wrote:
i hate racist people gg no re I hate stupidity. How can one sane man judge orb for a racist based on these screenshots. An Idiot? Yeah, that seems to fit, but not a racist. Narrow-minded people seem to need a target to throw their morals at. I wish people would wake up and see how racism/sexism really works. It`s not the people that make stupid comments, who make it hard for certain groups, it`s the people that smile in your face, but literally throw stones in the way of gays, women, blacks, atheist, muslims or whatever. Huge difference! Let me tell you something. One of my best friends is actually gay and my hetero friends and me used to make some jokes about gay stuff for years. Yeah that seems stupid, but my gay friend didn`t mind and joked back. If he would have a problem with it, we wouldn`t have done. But you know what? I love that guy and so do my other friends. I am pretty sure that all of us would literally fight with and for him, if some stupid fucks would harras him for being gay. Words and actions are not always the same and people should learn the fucking difference. I know this whole topic is very hot and I too am very emotional about it, so I want to apologize for some bad words. But it angers and depresses me, that some people act like the morality police, but than do way worse stuff, when they participate in actions to destroy someones life and get him fired. Use your energy for better things! You have to remember, in any other public sphere, this conversation would not be happening, because he would have been fired and no one would defend him. Remember the golfer who asked Tiger Woods about fried chicken? No bad words, but he was instantly a social pariah. Orb is just being held to the normal standards of society, which we should strive for. We should not (IMO) strive to let people be as crass as possible, we should try and better ourselves. I also feel bad for the guy, but he is young, and will bounce back hopefully. But jsu tbecause he was made a social priah doesnt make that right. You have totally misunderstood what that guy was saying. In short STOP CAUSING FIGHTS YOU IDIOTS, THERE IS NO NEED FOR IT. THe guy was made a social priah because people are ass hats to each other. You ahve a choice, join them and be a hater and live a miserable life that depends on others failures for you joy at their demise or you can just go 'crap that was a really stupid thing to say, do you realise that a lot of bigots will think your racist, are you racist? No, well i strongly suggest you stop usign that word or else we will have to take formal action' I was not causing a fight, I'm not really sure what you mean by that, please don't call me an idiot. This was caused by orb behaving in an unacceptable manner, no one else. I do think what he did was unacceptable, not to try and bring him down, but because that is where my moral compass lies. It certainly does not bring any joy, it's a really sad situation, but if people learn to behave a bit better, something positive can come of it. You do realise that the concept of 'cause' is really broken and ends in an infinite regression right? Cause all depends on where you stop the line of questioning - you just pick somewhere convenient. Yes you are able to take the moral high ground - and maybe you are not just a troll spilling out hate - but you have to admit that a lot of people are. Just look at the pattern, just look at all the rage on reddit. So no nobody caused you to post or to be angry except you and your reactions to the world. You have to take responsibility for that otherwise you have no personality and are simply reacting to the world. Now you can use your moral high ground, but you have to ask what are you trying to accomplish? Because last time i checked action had been taken already. Now people are just arguing about the past, presumably because they like to argue. Sure you can cite morality for the past .. but what about now. I wasn't even calling you an idiot, i used the word idiots which applies to a group. You notice how it isnt immoral for someone to do something moral if they dont have a cohice. The stealing banker is always more wrong than the homeless guy stealing bread to feed himself. The reason why racism is bad is because i treat you differently based on your race, the result of that can be tragic. Calling someone a nigger is wrong and it is racist but on the scale of racism at least he isnt treating the guys he calls niggers as slaves. Not all racism is the same yet people treat calling someone a frog as if i were trying to implement a caste sytem or just plain exercising a right to eugenics. What I see in other cultures (apart from black on white) is a massive amount of racism, seekh, hindu, pakistani, muslim, countries and religions are at each other all the time ... a lot of it is jovial. If you mention black on white racism then all hell breaks lose. Its disproportionate ... all because people in the US insisted on slavery and then even till this day have refused to educate people. Racism is bad because it can be hateful (noone can seriously claim that an englishman, frenchman and a german in a bar having food together taking the mick out of each others cultures and having a great time is bad). The problem is the HATE. What i see in moral objectors is using a moral objection as their vehicle for HATE. That is just as evil as the race crime in the first place. If not moreso because its so hard to get people to admit it. The equivalent argument is lets ban cameras in schools because of all the paedos. I'm really not a hater, and I don't hate orb, I feel bad for the guy. I don't read reddit, and if people are actually just out to hurt a guy just for laughs, then they really are the scum of the earth. But that doesn't excuse what happened. Black / White racism brings stronger reaction because of it's horrendous past, and therefore people are less tolerant of it. I don't hate racist people, but I will argue against them.
Yeah i did get the feeling that id picked a reasonable balanced guy to argue with once i got your response.
But i hope you can see where i am coming from.
I don;t doubt you are sincere, but there are many peopel who just trick themselves into thinking that.
As for the use fo the word gay i deliberatley use it correctly to mean happy regularly because I think its a great word ... its onomatopeic (or however you spell it) for me ... i think because it sounds liek yay.
well we can stop discussing  but to be frank i was enjoying a civil debate on a forum. I also have work to do though 
Sometimes people are just plain wrong in what they think. We can both accept that.
Sometimes when someone says soemthing the wrong meaning can be taken (thats not a big jump)
In those situations offence/insult happens unintentionally ... and the person causing it in my view is not the utterer of the words that were taken badly.
|
On March 09 2012 23:08 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 23:05 XRaDiiX wrote:On March 09 2012 23:04 Ballistixz wrote:On March 09 2012 22:59 ePLocust wrote:On March 09 2012 22:55 Ballistixz wrote:On March 09 2012 22:49 DeepElemBlues wrote:again, more bull shit. how many years has he been offensive in this community? just because he has stoped saying the word a few months ago does not make up for the years of him being offensive in the first place. congratz, it took him all this time to finally come clean. and guess what? he is still BM as shit, he just doesnt use the strong terms like "faggot" anymore. but he is still immature, BM, and non respectful to most ppl on ladder. If it bothers you so much that Idra only recently cleaned up his language and you aren't satisfied with the situation, go complain to EG's sponsors about it. Just drop the ridiculous "he's still BM" argument because it makes you look silly and childish. By your standard the majority of players in every sport are immature, BM, and non-respectful, and much more so than Idra, trash-talk on an NBA court or an NFL field is a lot harsher than "You should be ashamed of yourself." Orb got fired for using a nowadays completly generic curse/insult - like faggot, asshole, noob, retard etc. "Nigger" and "faggot" aren't generic curses / insults just because you use them that way. That's what the "cultural standards" part of the OP was about. holy fuck. let me spell it out for you. orb has cleaned up his language as of late and he is VERY professional with his commentary. he hasnt been nearly as BM as he was in the past where these screenshots come from. EG still fires him despite orb going/trying to go clean. keep being biased bro. I know it seems silly but in the real world things that you do and say in the past can and will come back and haunt you this is just an example of this. What I'd like to see is Orb keep casting on his own and really focusing on proving that he's cleaned up and I can forgive him. I agree with the decision made by Alex Garfield and EG here when someone is a recent hire you aren't invested heavily enough in them to keep them in the kind of shit storm that was whipped up. funny, because it hasnt haunted destiny yet, only made him money. even after the mia rose incident he is still on quantic. same for idra. but w/e. What happened? with mia Rose. basically sexually harrassed her LIVE on stream back in january. he constantly grabbed her boobs despite her obviously being uncomfortable with it and saying to stop it many times. but everyone batted an eye tot hat. go figure. this community makes me laugh honestly.
Too many fanboys of Destiny (and Idra) so they turn a blind eye to retarded shit they do.
While I think Orb certainly fucked up (you can't simply say that you were using a racial slur as a replaceable swear word..), sad to seem go. He was a good caster...
|
On March 09 2012 23:09 branflakes14 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 23:00 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 22:59 Greentellon wrote:On March 09 2012 22:54 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 22:52 Greentellon wrote:
Wait, people still get offended by stuff other people say? You are going to have seriously hard life ahead of you if you can't handle a couple of "offensive" words. i can handle being insulted but i think it is unacceptable that homophobic/racist language be used especially by people in public positions. If you have a complete lack of context awareness I guess you could think like that. I dont think context has anything to do with it especially with the words faggot and nigger, but you can carry on thinking what you want. You just proved yourself wrong by using those words in an exemplary context. Unless of course you meant to insult people with your post.
ok if you want to be picky, calling someone a faggot or nigger is completely unacceptable in any context.
|
On March 09 2012 22:48 Gajarell wrote:
Let me get this straight,
Orb got fired for using a nowadays completly generic curse/insult - like faggot, asshole, noob, retard etc.
He didn't used nigger in any kind of race-related fashion.
He did this prior to his contract with EG.
He got fired because people rose a shitstorm of moral outrage, complaining to EG and their sponsors.
I'm feeling concerned about this witchhunt style of persecution, which makes me believe that you can get anyone fired/you can destroy anyones life for completly arbitary reasons if you just put enough effort into researching every inch of his life.
Due to the sheer lack of anything to condemn, i'm going to file a complain to EG and every single one of their sponsors, even if it's just to restore some kind of balance in the universe - -"
And btw i never got that disgusted by any kind of hypocrisy like in this thread.
100% agreed. I feel that had this been something that came up quietly, orb would have gotten off with a warning, just as Idra gets a warning whenever he uses poor language. But because of the witchhunt, it's clear that a warning would not be satisfactory and the only way to end the cries would be to get rid of orb.
I primarily blame the immature reddit posters for making this such a huge deal in the first place, they could have done the same to probably over half of the current sc2 pros/casters if they wanted. I also disrespect Garfield for taking the easy way out and firing orb. Idra and Incontrol both use poor language and they aren't instantly fired for it.
|
United Kingdom3482 Posts
On March 09 2012 23:09 branflakes14 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 23:00 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 22:59 Greentellon wrote:On March 09 2012 22:54 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 22:52 Greentellon wrote:
Wait, people still get offended by stuff other people say? You are going to have seriously hard life ahead of you if you can't handle a couple of "offensive" words. i can handle being insulted but i think it is unacceptable that homophobic/racist language be used especially by people in public positions. If you have a complete lack of context awareness I guess you could think like that. I dont think context has anything to do with it especially with the words faggot and nigger, but you can carry on thinking what you want. You just proved yourself wrong by using those words in an exemplary context. Unless of course you meant to insult people with your post.
There is a huge difference between using it as an insult and talking about it in a general sense.
|
On March 09 2012 23:10 Zaros wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 23:09 branflakes14 wrote:On March 09 2012 23:00 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 22:59 Greentellon wrote:On March 09 2012 22:54 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 22:52 Greentellon wrote:
Wait, people still get offended by stuff other people say? You are going to have seriously hard life ahead of you if you can't handle a couple of "offensive" words. i can handle being insulted but i think it is unacceptable that homophobic/racist language be used especially by people in public positions. If you have a complete lack of context awareness I guess you could think like that. I dont think context has anything to do with it especially with the words faggot and nigger, but you can carry on thinking what you want. You just proved yourself wrong by using those words in an exemplary context. Unless of course you meant to insult people with your post. ok if you want to be picky, calling someone a faggot or nigger is completely unacceptable in any context.
So you should be banned for using it just now then? Context is important.
|
On March 09 2012 23:09 DR.Ham wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 23:07 MrTortoise wrote:On March 09 2012 23:01 DR.Ham wrote:On March 09 2012 22:55 Tobberoth wrote:On March 09 2012 22:39 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 22:38 Tobberoth wrote:On March 09 2012 22:35 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 22:34 Tobberoth wrote:
What people need to realize is that "gay" and "nigger" are already insults like "retard" or "dumbass". Yeah, they became insults because of homophobia and racism, people who hated black people called people they disliked "nigger" as an insult. That doesn't mean someone today using those words as insults are racist or homophobic, they are just using known insults. If you call someone "idiot", do you literally think of "a person of the lowest order in a former and discarded classification of mental retardation, having a mental age of less than three years old and an intelligence quotient under 25."? No? Because that is what it means and where the insult comes from. But you don't know that, you just need an insult and say what comes to mind. Same with people who use "nigger" as an insult, they aren't literally saying "you're bad, so you're a nigger because blacks are bad and so are you", they are just using an insult which they consider strong. I think retard is a stronger insult than idiot, but if you go by the historical meaning of the terms, idiot is actually far worse. But we DON'T go by historical meanings. They are still racist and homophobic just stop being biggoted and realise that >.> . No they aren't. You're misunderstanding their use of language and attributing views to them they might very well not have. i understand they may not mean it in a homophobic sense but the word itself is homophobic and downgrading. That is subjective. Saying someone is "gay" as an insult doesn't have to be homophobic, even though it certainly could be in some contexts. We can all agree that it's because of homophobia that the word is even considered an insult, but this is historical fact and it's subjective how much we have to respect that. Personally, I feel like we should try to stop words from becoming insults based on such things as racism, homophobia and antifeminism... but I feel it's WAAY to late to do anything about "gay" and "nigger", those words have been considered insults for longer as we've been alive. All you have to do is accept that they are mere insults, and the problem basically disappears, until people become really offended and sensitive about it. Isn't this just blaming the victim (the people who are offended) rather than the perpetrator (the people using racist/homophobic language)? Its about intent. If someone meant something to be offensive and the other person doesnt take offence the remark is still offensive. If someone did not mean offence but the other guy takers offence then he is being over sensitive. Sorry, I completely disagree, it's not about intent. You (the metaphorical you, not actually you) don't get to decide what other should find offensive or not. If someone takes offense, you were being offensive regardless of your intent. I'll stop posting here I think as we are just butting heads and fundamentally disagree it seems.
Yes, it is about intent. Words are used to reflect what our mind thinks. If in my mind I associate "nigger" with flowers then it's not right for someone to get offended when I say "The niggers I ordered for my GF arrived today". But you know fully well that I don't really associate the word like that.
It's all about intent.
|
On March 09 2012 23:08 Ballistixz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 23:05 XRaDiiX wrote:On March 09 2012 23:04 Ballistixz wrote:On March 09 2012 22:59 ePLocust wrote:On March 09 2012 22:55 Ballistixz wrote:On March 09 2012 22:49 DeepElemBlues wrote:again, more bull shit. how many years has he been offensive in this community? just because he has stoped saying the word a few months ago does not make up for the years of him being offensive in the first place. congratz, it took him all this time to finally come clean. and guess what? he is still BM as shit, he just doesnt use the strong terms like "faggot" anymore. but he is still immature, BM, and non respectful to most ppl on ladder. If it bothers you so much that Idra only recently cleaned up his language and you aren't satisfied with the situation, go complain to EG's sponsors about it. Just drop the ridiculous "he's still BM" argument because it makes you look silly and childish. By your standard the majority of players in every sport are immature, BM, and non-respectful, and much more so than Idra, trash-talk on an NBA court or an NFL field is a lot harsher than "You should be ashamed of yourself." Orb got fired for using a nowadays completly generic curse/insult - like faggot, asshole, noob, retard etc. "Nigger" and "faggot" aren't generic curses / insults just because you use them that way. That's what the "cultural standards" part of the OP was about. holy fuck. let me spell it out for you. orb has cleaned up his language as of late and he is VERY professional with his commentary. he hasnt been nearly as BM as he was in the past where these screenshots come from. EG still fires him despite orb going/trying to go clean. keep being biased bro. I know it seems silly but in the real world things that you do and say in the past can and will come back and haunt you this is just an example of this. What I'd like to see is Orb keep casting on his own and really focusing on proving that he's cleaned up and I can forgive him. I agree with the decision made by Alex Garfield and EG here when someone is a recent hire you aren't invested heavily enough in them to keep them in the kind of shit storm that was whipped up. funny, because it hasnt haunted destiny yet, only made him money. even after the mia rose incident he is still on quantic. same for idra. but w/e. What happened? with mia Rose. basically sexually harrassed her LIVE on stream back in january. he constantly grabbed her boobs despite her obviously being uncomfortable with it and saying to stop it many times. but everyone batted an eye tot hat. go figure. this community makes me laugh honestly.
I didn't know about it. And It is wrong and unacceptable of Destiny. But stop using it as an excuse. If you really believe that Destiny behaved inappropriately, then condemn that behaviour, dont hypocritically raise it to defend another person's behaviour.
hyp·o·crite
noun
1.
a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, especially a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.
Don't pretend like you care about Destiny's behaviour. I do, and I don't watch Destiny's stream. I also publicly condemn his behaviour on this thread. See, no different than what I did with Orb.
|
On March 09 2012 23:11 imallinson wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2012 23:09 branflakes14 wrote:On March 09 2012 23:00 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 22:59 Greentellon wrote:On March 09 2012 22:54 Zaros wrote:On March 09 2012 22:52 Greentellon wrote:
Wait, people still get offended by stuff other people say? You are going to have seriously hard life ahead of you if you can't handle a couple of "offensive" words. i can handle being insulted but i think it is unacceptable that homophobic/racist language be used especially by people in public positions. If you have a complete lack of context awareness I guess you could think like that. I dont think context has anything to do with it especially with the words faggot and nigger, but you can carry on thinking what you want. You just proved yourself wrong by using those words in an exemplary context. Unless of course you meant to insult people with your post. There is a huge difference between using it as an insult and talking about it in a general sense.
A contextual difference, you could say.
|
In the UK nigger is definatley not a generic swear word.
Its a word that will either get you a slap on the back or a knife in it or ostracised depending on company.
Also: what plogamer said. Didn't know destiny had done that. Wish i hadn't as respect just decreased. Think i might refer to him as MrRapey from now on
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
