EPT
I can't see anyone funding this team besides TomUnveiling of DuSt Gaming! - Page 10
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HaNaRi
Korea (South)50 Posts
I can't see anyone funding this team besides Tom | ||
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dacimvrl
Vatican City State582 Posts
On February 21 2012 17:42 Leeoku wrote: those stretched pics were epic ^ el ol el | ||
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BadgKat
United States156 Posts
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Virtuous
United States111 Posts
On February 23 2012 18:36 DOLLARBILLS wrote: Why yes i did have to make an account.. because i didn't have one? Isn't that what you normally do? i'd love to see you refute anything that i say Tom but truly i have no time to keep checking on teamliquid website... and i have nothing against your team i know them a lot of them personally myself, good dudes. Just seems funny that you guys promise all this stuff.. i guess we'll just see if you actually follow through or not. Like i said Good Luck. And Virtue you're not even worth trying to argue with, you're a bigger failure at war3/sc2 than both them combined ever could be. Big words bro... I didn't fail anything I set out to do in WC3... Maybe you view running a team and league as a failure but neither failed so that sucks... As for SC2 its funny if you think I'm a failure lol... You prob don't even know the team I'm on or what I have done because I have spent the past 5 months with a European team and the first time I told someone was two days ago You should man up and at least tell people who you are instead of hiding your failures and pointing out others mistakes | ||
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Shinta)
United States1716 Posts
On February 23 2012 00:07 Purebe wrote: That's why people like WE.TeD (possibly the best UD player in WAR3 for the past few years) consider him a friend who was very helpful and a great manager? In fact off the top of my head I can think of about 15 professional players of whom I've personally witnessed giving this guy props. Bidoux has been an asset to the WAR3 community. No one is perfect and in some lights Bidoux has made mistakes and screwed up. Find me someone who hasn't before you claim that matters though. The thing is, and I can say this pretty safely even without knowing who you are, that you don't realize about 95% of what he did for the community. It WAS at the professional scene and clearly you weren't involved in it. 'Haters gonna hate' You've been watching from afar. Bidoux used what he had to get himself into great situations. From there he was able to expand and go to greater places. Even though he didn't really do some of his job well, he had the connections he needed, and he was able to do good things and help good people. I was a friend of Bidoux back in War3, he's a good guy and I always shared good conversations with him. I support him and know that he is resourceful and can do a lot of good. I'm glad he has brought upon this opportunity, and I'm hoping for the best for him and his partners and players. That being said, you can't disregard what that other guys said. Bidoux did some bad things... You can say the good things about Bidoux, but plz don't try to deny facts. Bidoux was an asset to certain people, but he did plague other people/projects. I like when people mention the good things about a person, and put faith in his intentions and opportunities, but I don't like when people lie and say that criticism against a person is false or incorrect. Unless you have factual evidence to prove otherwise, your speculations are not useful. Same goes for the guy criticizing him... Heard good things about DreamS too, hope these guys go far^^ | ||
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phiinix
United States1169 Posts
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lastshadow
United States1372 Posts
And then you're going to pull Koreans who are in their best shape, out of their homeland, to deal with language barriers/cultuer shock, and put them in a worse gaming environment ladder/custom wise? If you were absolutely serious about getting better or improving your team, and making them better, the foreigners should've gone to Korea, not vice-versa. You're about to destroy these Koreans chances of actually improving, by forcing them to play with handicaps and less-intensive practice partners etc. Sorry, but this is the truth. If anyone's actually serious about being a progamer and not just in it for the money or fun or whatever, they come to Korea and they suck it up. No one can deny the practice here is better than the rest of the world [by far]. And I'm only writing this because I feel like the general(and wrong) belief is just "make a team house anywhere! -> get better!" and that's not how it works. Not to mention you're putting a shit load of burden on Sia, because he's the teams only chance for improvement, and that's if the others actually just accept their mechanics suck compared to his and actually learn through him (even if they don't play Terran) the way all Koreans learn off each other here. | ||
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Bidoux
Canada60 Posts
On February 26 2012 16:21 lastshadow wrote: This is great and all, but apart from Sia (who I don't think his English is actually that good from when I've spoken to him in the past) how do you guys honestly expect to improve? The NA server is absolutely god awful, customs won't matter because none of the very best foreigners actually play on NA anymore except for like three. And then you're going to pull Koreans who are in their best shape, out of their homeland, to deal with language barriers/cultuer shock, and put them in a worse gaming environment ladder/custom wise? If you were absolutely serious about getting better or improving your team, and making them better, the foreigners should've gone to Korea, not vice-versa. You're about to destroy these Koreans chances of actually improving, by forcing them to play with handicaps and less-intensive practice partners etc. Sorry, but this is the truth. If anyone's actually serious about being a progamer and not just in it for the money or fun or whatever, they come to Korea and they suck it up. No one can deny the practice here is better than the rest of the world [by far]. And I'm only writing this because I feel like the general(and wrong) belief is just "make a team house anywhere! -> get better!" and that's not how it works. Not to mention you're putting a shit load of burden on Sia, because he's the teams only chance for improvement, and that's if the others actually just accept their mechanics suck compared to his and actually learn through him (even if they don't play Terran) the way all Koreans learn off each other here. Thanks for the comment lastshadow and I know it was written with much experience behind it, seeing as you have experienced both environments thoroughly. However, the current plan is to have the training house in the USA. Maybe the caliber of ladder is not the same within both the servers (NA / KR) but that still doesn't mean players cannot still improve by practicing together with a strict practice schedule. Also I wouldn't say all or any burden is set on Sia, we have some very strong players coming to the house and I truly believe that it will benefit our team in the end. I mean that was the initial goal for this investment, to make a statement this year. Appreciate your input though, means a lot. | ||
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Venerac
United States201 Posts
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Vantastic
United States112 Posts
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Xeris
Iran17695 Posts
On February 26 2012 16:21 lastshadow wrote: This is great and all, but apart from Sia (who I don't think his English is actually that good from when I've spoken to him in the past) how do you guys honestly expect to improve? The NA server is absolutely god awful, customs won't matter because none of the very best foreigners actually play on NA anymore except for like three. And then you're going to pull Koreans who are in their best shape, out of their homeland, to deal with language barriers/cultuer shock, and put them in a worse gaming environment ladder/custom wise? If you were absolutely serious about getting better or improving your team, and making them better, the foreigners should've gone to Korea, not vice-versa. You're about to destroy these Koreans chances of actually improving, by forcing them to play with handicaps and less-intensive practice partners etc. Sorry, but this is the truth. If anyone's actually serious about being a progamer and not just in it for the money or fun or whatever, they come to Korea and they suck it up. No one can deny the practice here is better than the rest of the world [by far]. And I'm only writing this because I feel like the general(and wrong) belief is just "make a team house anywhere! -> get better!" and that's not how it works. Not to mention you're putting a shit load of burden on Sia, because he's the teams only chance for improvement, and that's if the others actually just accept their mechanics suck compared to his and actually learn through him (even if they don't play Terran) the way all Koreans learn off each other here. Violet has proven that a Korean can leave Korea and actually improve. He's been in the USA for >3 months now and has significantly gotten better in that time period. Although perhaps he's the exception. 90% of the time, I'd say you're right tho | ||
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Virtuous
United States111 Posts
On February 26 2012 17:07 Xeris wrote: Violet has proven that a Korean can leave Korea and actually improve. He's been in the USA for >3 months now and has significantly gotten better in that time period. Although perhaps he's the exception. 90% of the time, I'd say you're right tho Violet came from WC3 pro background so that's a huge bonus to him... and he can work hard... It really just depends if the players have the drive to push themselves and the team owners force a korean style practice environment on them... I believe they wont improve as fast as if they where in Korea but its not like they will get worse... Lastshadow its nice to see you posting :D Love your play man keep it up and hopefully u find some success... Losing to you on ladder was an honor haha  | ||
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sWs
United States409 Posts
On February 26 2012 16:21 lastshadow wrote: This is great and all, but apart from Sia (who I don't think his English is actually that good from when I've spoken to him in the past) how do you guys honestly expect to improve? The NA server is absolutely god awful, customs won't matter because none of the very best foreigners actually play on NA anymore except for like three. And then you're going to pull Koreans who are in their best shape, out of their homeland, to deal with language barriers/cultuer shock, and put them in a worse gaming environment ladder/custom wise? If you were absolutely serious about getting better or improving your team, and making them better, the foreigners should've gone to Korea, not vice-versa. You're about to destroy these Koreans chances of actually improving, by forcing them to play with handicaps and less-intensive practice partners etc. Sorry, but this is the truth. If anyone's actually serious about being a progamer and not just in it for the money or fun or whatever, they come to Korea and they suck it up. No one can deny the practice here is better than the rest of the world [by far]. And I'm only writing this because I feel like the general(and wrong) belief is just "make a team house anywhere! -> get better!" and that's not how it works. Not to mention you're putting a shit load of burden on Sia, because he's the teams only chance for improvement, and that's if the others actually just accept their mechanics suck compared to his and actually learn through him (even if they don't play Terran) the way all Koreans learn off each other here. You're completely wrong. Living in korea isn't everything. The reason people improve in Korean more-so than NA, is because that (speaking generally) Korean players, and Korean team-houses practice at a much higher intensity than other places in the world. With that said, any player who has the drive, and the focus to improve, can do so regardless of their location. That Korean intensity that I speak of can be mimicked anywhere with a willing team, and a willing management. Thanks for the negativity though, gives us yet one more person to prove wrong. | ||
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shinyA
United States473 Posts
On February 26 2012 16:21 lastshadow wrote: This is great and all, but apart from Sia (who I don't think his English is actually that good from when I've spoken to him in the past) how do you guys honestly expect to improve? The NA server is absolutely god awful, customs won't matter because none of the very best foreigners actually play on NA anymore except for like three. And then you're going to pull Koreans who are in their best shape, out of their homeland, to deal with language barriers/cultuer shock, and put them in a worse gaming environment ladder/custom wise? If you were absolutely serious about getting better or improving your team, and making them better, the foreigners should've gone to Korea, not vice-versa. You're about to destroy these Koreans chances of actually improving, by forcing them to play with handicaps and less-intensive practice partners etc. Sorry, but this is the truth. If anyone's actually serious about being a progamer and not just in it for the money or fun or whatever, they come to Korea and they suck it up. No one can deny the practice here is better than the rest of the world [by far]. And I'm only writing this because I feel like the general(and wrong) belief is just "make a team house anywhere! -> get better!" and that's not how it works. Not to mention you're putting a shit load of burden on Sia, because he's the teams only chance for improvement, and that's if the others actually just accept their mechanics suck compared to his and actually learn through him (even if they don't play Terran) the way all Koreans learn off each other here. Yeah, because you've done so much and improved a great deal since being in Korea! Oh wait...you haven't. You got bashed on and cried, switched races and then cried some more. You feel like you're entitled to respect because you went to Korea but you, and many others, have gone to Korea and achieved absolutely nothing. I hear you say how "God awful" foreigners are like you're above them, but you aren't. You've never been able to compete with the top players and that's dating back to BW. You, Spades, cArn, MajOr, Fenix, Oak, and plenty of other players have gone and trained in Korea and have had no results. Hell, IdrA went back to Korea and hasn't done that well in a tournament since. HuK is the only player who you can attribute being in Korea relative to his success, and even that is debatable; I could easily argue that he would still be a top foreigner if he practiced as hard in Korea as he did outside of it. People like to make the Korean server out to be some godlike entity when it really isn't the case. At the top of the KR ladder, as in GM MMR, the KR server is much better than the NA server but unless you're at that skill level then playing on NA is the same thing. Until you can max out your MMR on NA and have a 70%+ win ratio there really isn't that much of a benefit from practicing on KR. The ladder system is designed to give you a 50% win ratio, if you're at or around that ratio on any server then switching servers isnt' going to do anything because you're still going to be presed to go 50/50. The reason players, like yourself, make KR server out to be so much better than it is when they aren't even hitting that MMR on KR is because you can justify your losses better. It's alot easier to lose to someone on KR and praise them for being good but when you have in your head that everyone on NA sucks and then you lose to them, it makes it harder to practice because you put yourself in such a negative mindset. How many times do you hear someone lose and make comments like "omg my opponent is so bad, so bad!" ... after they just lost to them. Just as a bit of reference, I'm GM on NA and was mid-high masters on KR with similar win percentages - exactly what I expect. If you're high masters on NA then odds are you're going to be midish masters on KR and your win percentage will be similar. But when you say "Oh, I'm mid masters KR with 55% win" you can make yourself feel better and say "yeah NA is shit" and act, ignorantly, superior. | ||
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Laxx
Australia61 Posts
The only person on the team who could be classified as not an "unknown" within the StarCraft 2 community is Sia, who is an ex-NSH B-Teamer with zero results. To say that it would be risky investing in a team house for a team of unknown and unproven players would be a massive understatement. I'm not necessarily even questioning the skill of the players--- I'm just highlighting the fact that every single player has pretty much zero exposure. If eSports history is anything to go by, plopping a team of underexposed players in a team house is rarely a sound business decision. As an aside, I would suggest trying to improve your overall brand presentation. It comes across as quite unprofessional. I do not mean to offend or disrespect, however, and from one team staffer to another I do wish the managers good luck. | ||
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Felix.Ice
United States42 Posts
As for "unexposed players" and "unprofessional" gamers, dont we all have to start some where? How did players like Thorzain, Kas, ToD, Grubby, Moon, Axslav, ThomasG, Fury, (even Cruncher!) become so well known in the SC2 community (now come to think of it, all those players were ex-wc3 pros.. where did they come from)?. Point being, anything can happen. Just relax and accept whats happening without being so bitter. Its no fun to keep tossing the same professional players back and forth between different teams. It becomes boring news. You have to think outside of the box for once and realize, what makes this whole experience fun and challenging IS getting the exposure to these newly aquired players we have. You may critique us and say "its unproffessional like, from one professional to another", but in reality, it was one hell of a introduction made by Bidoux. I dont know what you were looking for, maybe you guys had a power point presentation or something with spread sheets, analyzing your finances, player attributes, wins losses etc. but this is TL, a forum/news community. There is no need to go that far nor disclose all that information. So question is... what exactly is an example of a "professional brand presentation"? Before you write posts and ask questions to critique our team, please do realize our love and commitment to our players, staff, esports, friends and sc2 community. We are not trying to fail here, we did actually think this whole thing over. The fact that we are not dependent on sponors to succeed, just adds further proof as to why we WILL succeed. | ||
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noxn
65 Posts
On February 28 2012 21:12 shinyA wrote: Yeah, because you've done so much and improved a great deal since being in Korea! Oh wait...you haven't. You got bashed on and cried, switched races and then cried some more. You feel like you're entitled to respect because you went to Korea but you, and many others, have gone to Korea and achieved absolutely nothing. I hear you say how "God awful" foreigners are like you're above them, but you aren't. You've never been able to compete with the top players and that's dating back to BW. You, Spades, cArn, MajOr, Fenix, Oak, and plenty of other players have gone and trained in Korea and have had no results. Hell, IdrA went back to Korea and hasn't done that well in a tournament since. HuK is the only player who you can attribute being in Korea relative to his success, and even that is debatable; I could easily argue that he would still be a top foreigner if he practiced as hard in Korea as he did outside of it. People like to make the Korean server out to be some godlike entity when it really isn't the case. At the top of the KR ladder, as in GM MMR, the KR server is much better than the NA server but unless you're at that skill level then playing on NA is the same thing. Until you can max out your MMR on NA and have a 70%+ win ratio there really isn't that much of a benefit from practicing on KR. The ladder system is designed to give you a 50% win ratio, if you're at or around that ratio on any server then switching servers isnt' going to do anything because you're still going to be presed to go 50/50. The reason players, like yourself, make KR server out to be so much better than it is when they aren't even hitting that MMR on KR is because you can justify your losses better. It's alot easier to lose to someone on KR and praise them for being good but when you have in your head that everyone on NA sucks and then you lose to them, it makes it harder to practice because you put yourself in such a negative mindset. How many times do you hear someone lose and make comments like "omg my opponent is so bad, so bad!" ... after they just lost to them. Just as a bit of reference, I'm GM on NA and was mid-high masters on KR with similar win percentages - exactly what I expect. If you're high masters on NA then odds are you're going to be midish masters on KR and your win percentage will be similar. But when you say "Oh, I'm mid masters KR with 55% win" you can make yourself feel better and say "yeah NA is shit" and act, ignorantly, superior. I can't comment on the first part, but what you said about people at 50% winrate on NA going to practice on Korea is so true. I get so annoyed when people tell me how amazing the Korean server is and meanwhile they're like mid masters on NA talking shit about all of the NA players even though they are losing 50% of their games to so called 'terrible players' @__@ :-\ | ||
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.Sic.
Korea (South)497 Posts
On February 29 2012 15:43 noxn wrote: I can't comment on the first part, but what you said about people at 50% winrate on NA going to practice on Korea is so true. I get so annoyed when people tell me how amazing the Korean server is and meanwhile they're like mid masters on NA talking shit about all of the NA players even though they are losing 50% of their games to so called 'terrible players' @__@ :-\ I don't think it ever hurts to play on KR server unless you get terrible latency or you just do it to make excuses for yourself for not being good on NA. But yeah, good players will be good anywhere and shit players will be shit anywhere. If you are anything below GM and the top of NA masters, and think that being masters league in KR gives you more credibility, you are a total idiot that doesn't even know what high level is. That being said, imho high level play depends on understanding of the game and mechanics,. If you go to Korea and can't get any practice partners or talk about the game because of the cultural/language barrier, your understanding will probably not increase as much. So if your mechanics improve a lot further than your understanding, your mechanical improvements might stagnate too because you haven't increased your knowledge enough to make use of the extra mechanics. Every player needs to work on different things and the fact that practicing in Korea wont offer everything makes it difficult to say that blindly going to korea will make you better. | ||
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Ace1123
Philippines1187 Posts
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KoDo
United States683 Posts
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