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On February 19 2012 05:09 gh0un wrote:
Binding the left mouse click to a keyboard button is basically the same as changing the hotkey of a spell from O to A.
There are people that use no mouse whatsoever in order to utilize their computers, using only keyboard commands.
Limiting the speed of using certain spells (like infested terrans or snipe) by arbitrarily making it harder to click it fast is bad gamedesign anyways.
Why should there be certain buttons that are allowed to be pressed fast in succession (holding down a keyboard button) while other buttons arent allowed that function? (mouse buttons)
Either you disallow both keyboard AND mouse buttons to be pressed fast in succession, or you allow both of them, anything else is just ridiculous.
Even if you rebind left-click to a keyboard button, when you hold it down, it does NOT "press in fast succession" as you say UNLESS you change the driver settings to make it "play repeatedly."
Think about it. When you hold down the left mouse button, it doesn't play repeatedly. When you assign left-click to a keyboard, it's the same deal, just with a different physical input. The only way (as far as I know, so do correct me if you know better) to make a keyboard assigned left-click click repeatedly, is to use a driver and set it as "play repeatedly when button is held down," etc. This counts as a macro, no?
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On February 19 2012 05:07 Karliath wrote:
I just tested it out, and it is a macro, not just a simple rebinding.
Steps for a Razer keyboard:
1. Create a macro with the steps
- Left-click down
- Left-click up
2. Assign the macro to a key
3. Set playback option for the key to be "Play while assigned key is pressed."
Unless there's another way to make holding down the left mouse button (or it's equivalent) click repeatedly, this is a macro that replays the keystrokes repeatedly. Isn't that already illegal, but Blizzard's rules? This isn't just a "rebinding." If you do a simple rebinding to something other than say, the scroll wheel, the effect should be exactly the same as it used to be, with no benefits.
If you omit the "play while assigned key is pressed" part, then yes, it's a normal 1:1 keybind. SC2, by nature, will repeat keyboard strokes while held. Try it out, select a bunch of larva and hold D.
If SC2 doesn't treat click-bound-to-key as a normal key click and repeats it, then yeah, needing to use "repeat while pressed" would make it a macro. I've never tried this, so I could have been wrong: I always assumed SC2 treats it like a keyboard key.
Edit: We posted at the same time, but pretty much said the same thing: "repeat while pressed" would indeed be considered a macro.
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On February 19 2012 05:14 Z-R0E wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2012 05:07 Karliath wrote:
I just tested it out, and it is a macro, not just a simple rebinding.
Steps for a Razer keyboard:
1. Create a macro with the steps
- Left-click down
- Left-click up
2. Assign the macro to a key
3. Set playback option for the key to be "Play while assigned key is pressed."
Unless there's another way to make holding down the left mouse button (or it's equivalent) click repeatedly, this is a macro that replays the keystrokes repeatedly. Isn't that already illegal, but Blizzard's rules? This isn't just a "rebinding." If you do a simple rebinding to something other than say, the scroll wheel, the effect should be exactly the same as it used to be, with no benefits. If you omit the "play while assigned key is pressed" part, then yes, it's a normal 1:1 keybind. SC2, by nature, will repeat keyboard strokes while held. Try it out, select a bunch of larva and hold D. If SC2 doesn't treat click-bound-to-key as a normal key click and repeats it, then yeah, needing to use "repeat while pressed" would make it a macro.
I understand the concept that holding D, for example, makes multiple larva into drones.
However, when you reassign the left-click button to a keyboard key through the drivers, the key is only played once, like a normal left-click. Therefore, as far as I can tell, the only way to make it play repeatedly is to set it in the driver, making it an unfair macro. I've tested this by assigning the left-click button to a macro button, F5, and x.
Again, do correct me if you know better. These are just my test results.
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The way I see it, this is a problem with game design. Snipe, infested terran etc is made so that the faster you can left click, the more effective the spell is. With infestors you can shift-queue and they'll appear almost instantly, but that tends to bug out with snipe, so someone who can spam left click twice as fast as someone else will have a twice as effective Ghost.
I kinda wish they'd replace this with some abilities that depended more on positioning, multitasking and overall army control. Then, we wouldn't really need to worry about macros being a problem.
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You fail to mention how you did this.
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On February 19 2012 05:24 Fealthas wrote:
You fail to mention how you did this.
You fail to read the rest of the thread.
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You can use the mouse per numlock keys in windows (if you enable the function).
Pressing a button repeatedly on the keyboard is also faster than pressing it on the mouse.
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Hmmmm curious which mouse do you use (drivers version too please) or keyboard if you're binding a key to a mouse function instead of binding a mouse function to a key.
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On February 19 2012 05:42 CodECleaR wrote:
Hmmmm curious which mouse do you use (drivers version too please) or keyboard if you're binding a key to a mouse function instead of binding a mouse function to a key.
Im using the razer black widow ultimate, driver version 1.02, Im going to the assign keys section and clicking on F3 then single key then left clicking once. I then went into the control panel and turned the refresh rate of my keyboard to the max.
as someone in the thread earlier posted it appears im not the first to discover this, but different drivers seem to handle things differently, on my driver when I bind a key to something and hold it down it presses it as long as I hold it down (like a normal keyboard key would)
I'm using windows 7 if that helps
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I see, didnt see that post, I havent used it on ladder though, I think it should be fixed. I also think however that the IT spell atleast needs a rework, the fact that the spell relies on clicking as fast as possible is stupid.
altough, if it was to become an option in SC2 itself I would use it in a heart beat.
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I think this should be defined as a macro, as Buzerio stated in earlier posts. the apm during this keybinding is anywhere from 1500apm to 10,000 apm. not a macro my ass. just clicking a button and holding shift can get you up to 10,000 apm? yeah no, has to be taken out of the game
edit/ the ability to rebind mouse buttons should be disabled by blizzard
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I just tried it with a ps3 controller and an xbox360 controller same way you bind it with the mouse or the keyboard... Should i start a thread for both or one for each with the keybind detail? ....
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Neither this nor mouse scroll left-click should be allowed even if it is accomplished using your regular drivers. I can make scripts and macros for my keyboard using it's drivers but that should not be allowed either.
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On February 19 2012 04:46 Berailfor wrote:
I did in fact see in Catz recent nasl game him using the infested Terran trick. The casters were confused and assumed it was a shift command but you could tell it wasn't because he had no previous vision of the terrans tank setup (which was in an odd line lining a cliff). And spammed IT's so fast over all of them. I'm not sure if it's legal or not but he definitely did it no doubt. I dunno my opinions on whether or not it should be allowed. Seems to me it is substituting for how fast it'd normally take to click that speed. So IMO maybe it should be illegal reason being it is allowing something that takes much more clicking and screen time to happen in a lot shorter time (and more effectively because of how they are all virtually instantaneous)
you are wrong, and it was shift click
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I just watched that video and seriously... omg that is so broken!
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On February 19 2012 00:35 Buzerio wrote:
I dont agree that IT and Snipe is really micro, Is the micro in this game really just clicking the mouse fast?
Errr.... welcome to SCII?
On February 19 2012 09:00 KoiKetv wrote:
I just tried it with a ps3 controller and an xbox360 controller same way you bind it with the mouse or the keyboard... Should i start a thread for both or one for each with the keybind detail? ....
Don't be so bitter, OP makes a good point. It's a slippery slope, and being able to do something like this is obviously broken but technically not breaking any rules.
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It's not a macro or anything prohibited but it certain fits the definition of an exploit. I don't like it because it is a method of synthetically watering down the game. Imagine if three or four of these tricks existed that weren't technically banned but made it easier to play. Cool trick that was found but bad for the game overall.
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It's a neat trick and all. but how does this help in game?
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On February 19 2012 10:07 Thombur wrote:
Neither this nor mouse scroll left-click should be allowed even if it is accomplished using your regular drivers. I can make scripts and macros for my keyboard using it's drivers but that should not be allowed either.
Scripts or macro are forbidden, this is not.
Anything that realise more than 1 action per click/key strike is forbidden.
Reallocating one key to something else is something that can be done without external programm or mouse drivers, you just need to change the windows registry (there are programms that do it for you, but it can be done manually).
It's just windows configuration, like setting your mouse speed. You can not possibly forbid that.
Blizzard should set up a cool down for infested terrans & snipe, but this is clearly allowed and should be.
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EPT
