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On February 22 2012 08:02 Zombo Joe wrote:
The problem with autoturrets is that they are harder to place than Infested Terrans.
The spot where they are getting casted must be clear of any buildings and units.
That's true  ( I guess it would take some crazy positioning. Also the casting time is annoying... you can't really shift-cast them into an arc.
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On February 22 2012 07:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 07:13 Hollow wrote:
What are the pros saying about this?
Ugh, I recently made the switch to Terran and have found it extremely difficult to deal with late game Protoss and Zerg and now I just can't see how I could win against anyone good with the nerf. It seems like a really, really bad patch. A lot of pros think the changes are generally called for (including the fact that "a" change to the ghost was needed, although this exact one may not be the correct one). More pros were in favor than against, anyway. Obviously, the vocal minority of anti-patch people (pros and non-pros) were Terrans, as this patch hurts them overall. I think the key is that you "recently" made the change, and the patch isn't even really out yet for ladder games. Give the patch time, and give yourself time to learn and adapt 
I'm Protoss and the Ghost nerf is by far the stupidest thing ever to make it live.
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Actually it gives us all a chance to see how the "pros" deal with the patch. I dont envy the hard work preparing the pros have ahead of them, but I do look forward to seeing how it turns out. It should be "interesting" to say the least. Hey remember when people used to counter BL's with ghosts? LOL
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On February 22 2012 07:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 07:13 Hollow wrote:
What are the pros saying about this?
Ugh, I recently made the switch to Terran and have found it extremely difficult to deal with late game Protoss and Zerg and now I just can't see how I could win against anyone good with the nerf. It seems like a really, really bad patch. A lot of pros think the changes are generally called for (including the fact that "a" change to the ghost was needed, although this exact one may not be the correct one). More pros were in favor than against, anyway. Obviously, the vocal minority of anti-patch people (pros and non-pros) were Terrans, as this patch hurts them overall. I think the key is that you "recently" made the change, and the patch isn't even really out yet for ladder games. Give the patch time, and give yourself time to learn and adapt
Taking what you said you can say a majority of the pros, while thinking ghosts needed to be changed, thought that that specific change was too much, ie, not necessary/the wrong direction, so....no, you cant actually say a majority of pro players were in favor of the change at all. you're twisting things to fit your own opinion.
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snipe going from too useful in the lategame in one match-up to absolutely worthless outside of those units that it was deemed too strong against (but now "balanced" against those units (even though frankly mathematically it wasn't balanced in favor of the ghosts economically against those units even before) is blizzard design in its typical form.
ready for the people to start playing the raven, and the raven to be sufficiently nerfed.
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On February 22 2012 08:15 Angel_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 07:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 22 2012 07:13 Hollow wrote:
What are the pros saying about this?
Ugh, I recently made the switch to Terran and have found it extremely difficult to deal with late game Protoss and Zerg and now I just can't see how I could win against anyone good with the nerf. It seems like a really, really bad patch. A lot of pros think the changes are generally called for (including the fact that "a" change to the ghost was needed, although this exact one may not be the correct one). More pros were in favor than against, anyway. Obviously, the vocal minority of anti-patch people (pros and non-pros) were Terrans, as this patch hurts them overall. I think the key is that you "recently" made the change, and the patch isn't even really out yet for ladder games. Give the patch time, and give yourself time to learn and adapt Taking what you said you can say a majority of the pros, while thinking ghosts needed to be changed, thought that that specific change was too much, ie, not necessary/the wrong direction, so....no, you cant actually say a majority of pro players were in favor of the change at all. you're twisting things to fit your own opinion.
I have no idea what you're saying, but you probably misunderstood what I said.
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On February 22 2012 08:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 08:15 Angel_ wrote:On February 22 2012 07:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 22 2012 07:13 Hollow wrote:
What are the pros saying about this?
Ugh, I recently made the switch to Terran and have found it extremely difficult to deal with late game Protoss and Zerg and now I just can't see how I could win against anyone good with the nerf. It seems like a really, really bad patch. A lot of pros think the changes are generally called for (including the fact that "a" change to the ghost was needed, although this exact one may not be the correct one). More pros were in favor than against, anyway. Obviously, the vocal minority of anti-patch people (pros and non-pros) were Terrans, as this patch hurts them overall. I think the key is that you "recently" made the change, and the patch isn't even really out yet for ladder games. Give the patch time, and give yourself time to learn and adapt Taking what you said you can say a majority of the pros, while thinking ghosts needed to be changed, thought that that specific change was too much, ie, not necessary/the wrong direction, so....no, you cant actually say a majority of pro players were in favor of the change at all. you're twisting things to fit your own opinion. I have no idea what you're saying, but you probably misunderstood what I said.
that is quite possible, and if so, i apologize.
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On February 22 2012 08:25 Angel_ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2012 08:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 22 2012 08:15 Angel_ wrote:On February 22 2012 07:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 22 2012 07:13 Hollow wrote:
What are the pros saying about this?
Ugh, I recently made the switch to Terran and have found it extremely difficult to deal with late game Protoss and Zerg and now I just can't see how I could win against anyone good with the nerf. It seems like a really, really bad patch. A lot of pros think the changes are generally called for (including the fact that "a" change to the ghost was needed, although this exact one may not be the correct one). More pros were in favor than against, anyway. Obviously, the vocal minority of anti-patch people (pros and non-pros) were Terrans, as this patch hurts them overall. I think the key is that you "recently" made the change, and the patch isn't even really out yet for ladder games. Give the patch time, and give yourself time to learn and adapt Taking what you said you can say a majority of the pros, while thinking ghosts needed to be changed, thought that that specific change was too much, ie, not necessary/the wrong direction, so....no, you cant actually say a majority of pro players were in favor of the change at all. you're twisting things to fit your own opinion. I have no idea what you're saying, but you probably misunderstood what I said. that is quite possible, and if so, i apologize.
No sweat
Update: The phoenix (and probably the other) upgrades work in both custom and ladder games now
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On February 18 2012 12:49 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
--------- So they release the patch 1 day before Assembly AND MLG? Are they... I dont know, retarded?
Maybe someone whimsical in Blizzard wanted to see what havoc would be wreacked
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Anyone see the "Starcraft Masters" Portrait has been updated finally, a list of new achievements to go with the mod but Blizz hasn't uploaded the Mod/Game yet. d(c.c)b
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Is there still no complete patch notes list?
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I am from NZ so i have SEA/NA, it is currently on NA since thats where i last logged in, i havent patched yet, but when i open sc2 it last logged onto NA, so it tries to patch. how can i log on to sea?
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I think someone at Blizz really loves Sheth. I mean, who can blame them, but this is so stupid, nerfing a staple of late-game TvZ three days before the event. I don't see a Terran winning a TvZ past the 12:00 mark with 3 days to adapt to the patch, regardless of what you think on how good it is. Now all every good Zerg has to do for the next three days is practice holding early all-ins, and all any good foreign Terran (except maybe Thorzain; maybe he can win a TvZ mid-game) can do is practice the crap out of those early game all-ins. Don't get me wrong, I think mid-game TvZ is balanced, but against a good Zerg, it seems that the way a Terran wins is to force the late game, which is gonna be useless now...
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On February 22 2012 10:02 Shantastic wrote:
I think someone at Blizz really loves Sheth. I mean, who can blame them, but this is so stupid, nerfing a staple of late-game TvZ three days before the event. I don't see a Terran winning a TvZ past the 12:00 mark with 3 days to adapt to the patch, regardless of what you think on how good it is. Now all every good Zerg has to do for the next three days is practice holding early all-ins, and all any good foreign Terran (except maybe Thorzain; maybe he can win a TvZ mid-game) can do is practice the crap out of those early game all-ins. Don't get me wrong, I think mid-game TvZ is balanced, but against a good Zerg, it seems that the way a Terran wins is to force the late game, which is gonna be useless now...
lol we shall see. I have a feeling you will be wrong
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Well, obviously, a Terran can still win at any point, but I'm imagining a similar case to how PvZs used to be before Infestors became really popular. Unless the Zerg makes a mistake, he should not drop a ZvT if he gets to the midgame. In order to win, Terran players will have to rely on teh Zerg making a mistake, and IMHO, any time you have to rely on your opponent screwing up more than on just yourself playing solidly is a problem.
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Now that ghost's snipe isn't as powerful, I hope we get to see more of those amazing games that MMA put up against DRG in the 2011 GSL final match.
If MMA ever went for ghosts, we won't have ever seen such an epic game like that one.
Pretty sure MVP will still uses ghosts because he likes their late game utility of nuking and sniping and EMPs.
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i guess one good thing about the ghost nerf is that mass nuking will be less OP in ZvT, because ghost is now terrible in ZvT (except for nukes) there will be less ghosts, so ghosts will be a good indicator for zerg that nukes are coming.
still hate how ghost is unbelievably useless against zerg and terran though... you can counter queens, ravens, ghosts and infestors with your ghost... but it's dross against everything else... is there any other unit in the game with such a retarded role? (besides raven)
balance is cool.... but blizzard are still failing big time... thor, raven and ghost are now a complete and utter design failure. stupid bandaid units eagerly anticipating HOTS were they might be less dumb.
btw terran who want a buff from blizzard - refuse to use ghosts in TvZ altogether. play ignorant on purpose and blizzard will act... that's how their balancing system always works.
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On February 22 2012 10:23 shizna wrote:
i guess one good thing about the ghost nerf is that mass nuking will be less OP in ZvT, because ghost is now terrible in ZvT (except for nukes) there will be less ghosts, so ghosts will be a good indicator for zerg that nukes are coming.
still hate how ghost is unbelievably useless against zerg and terran though... you can counter queens, ravens, ghosts and infestors with your ghost... but it's dross against everything else... is there any other unit in the game with such a retarded role? (besides raven)
balance is cool.... but blizzard are still failing big time... thor, raven and ghost are now a complete and utter design failure. stupid bandaid units eagerly anticipating HOTS were they might be less dumb.
btw terran who want a buff from blizzard - refuse to use ghosts in TvZ altogether. play ignorant on purpose and blizzard will act... that's how their balancing system always works.
Well there's also the Reaper that has no real role beyond max 10 minutes ingame time.
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I don't get why this doesn't get tested on the PTR first before rolling out the changes.......The ghost nerf is ridiculous. They should add a cool down to the spell and/or reduce damage to massive.
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United Kingdom20275 Posts
On February 22 2012 10:23 shizna wrote:
i guess one good thing about the ghost nerf is that mass nuking will be less OP in ZvT, because ghost is now terrible in ZvT (except for nukes) there will be less ghosts, so ghosts will be a good indicator for zerg that nukes are coming.
still hate how ghost is unbelievably useless against zerg and terran though... you can counter queens, ravens, ghosts and infestors with your ghost... but it's dross against everything else... is there any other unit in the game with such a retarded role? (besides raven)
balance is cool.... but blizzard are still failing big time... thor, raven and ghost are now a complete and utter design failure. stupid bandaid units eagerly anticipating HOTS were they might be less dumb.
btw terran who want a buff from blizzard - refuse to use ghosts in TvZ altogether. play ignorant on purpose and blizzard will act... that's how their balancing system always works.
Ghosts are amazing against hydras, infestors, mutalisks, queens, brood lords, ultralisks (and with correct control, or low numbers, also banelings) which means that the only zerg unit above tier 1 that is not countered by a ghost with a decent amount of energy is the roach.
In the end, vs a turtling terran with mech, the supply efficiency of ghosts and tanks (2 and 3 supply) vs roaches (2 supply) will destroy you when you are at supply cap for half the game but cannot engage, and then loose vital positioning during your remax and also loose that. With perfect control, 60 supply of ghosts can very near instantly kill 120-150 supply of roaches, and that is before tank shots etc.
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On February 22 2012 10:09 Shantastic wrote:
Well, obviously, a Terran can still win at any point, but I'm imagining a similar case to how PvZs used to be before Infestors became really popular. Unless the Zerg makes a mistake, he should not drop a ZvT if he gets to the midgame. In order to win, Terran players will have to rely on teh Zerg making a mistake, and IMHO, any time you have to rely on your opponent screwing up more than on just yourself playing solidly is a problem.
Welcome to the world of TvP.
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EPT
