|
Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit.
Bans will be handed out.
Should go without saying, but don't link restreams here either. |
On February 14 2012 12:47 dsousa wrote:
If the community rewards MLG after this, then we're just setting ourselves up for others to use this model as well. Before you know it the GSL will be PPV only and not offer a free stream. Maybe IEM, Assembly will do that same.
I can guarantee Assembly is not going to do the same. Some other ASUS ROG may, but never Assembly.
|
The MLG Winter Arena PPV Event is not included in any of MLG’s current Membership packages.
So MLG is making a distinction between "Arena" and "Championship events" ?
WTF I don't mind paying, but if you tell me that if I buy gold I'm gonna get to see everything for a year and then you conveniently ad something (that costs almost as much as a gold membership!) that isn't included...BM.
|
I guess I am watching Assembly.
|
I think it's more an issue of MLG trying to directly put their own profit above actual growth of esports, or equating the two to be the same thing.
Why in the world would a company that is making a huge investment in putting out these tournaments sacrifice its own financial livelihood and go bankrupt soon after for the sake of "esports"? MLG is not a non-profit organization and e-sports cannot and will not grow without money. Why would any company sponsor events that have no profit potential?
|
United States22883 Posts
On February 14 2012 12:53 XRaDiiX wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 11:23 Jibba wrote:On February 14 2012 11:12 dsousa wrote:
You know who survives on ads.... Google, Facebook, Zynga, Yahoo, 500 television channels, Football, basketball, baseball, tennis, and every other SC2 tournament out there.
So don't cry that the ad model is broken.... maybe your cost structure is broken! Youtube lost billions of dollars for years and has only relatively recently begun to make money for Google. Most football, basketball and baseball teams are losing money, which is why they have revenue sharing from the giants. Television is dying with advertising, media is dying with advertising. And the actual truth is that SC2 is dying with advertising. People have been fed a vision of mainstream ESPORTS for too long, and they don't realize people are just taking loss leaders on a hope that's never going to happen. Even the giants in BW have been falling for years. It's a bubble and a niche, and there will never be a viewership that can sustain an advertising based/free system. Never. The entire system is currently reliant on investors, and you can't keep that up. That doesn't sound true at all considering all the leagues that have sustained theirselves over the past year or so on Free streams. If they were losing more money than making wouldn't they just close up shop? Because they'd be bankrupt? A year or two means absolutely nothing, we've seen this all before.
They're not in debt, but they're running a deficit.
|
On February 14 2012 12:50 ReVox wrote:
jesus christ, people are bitching that someone is charging 1 dollar an hour for the top pros from NA/EU/KR over a weekend, with a 5th dr. pepper stream giving us interviews, original content, and other stuff?
I'm going to put this as civilly as possible:
This community has an entitlement problem. The idea that you cant pay 20 bucks(again this is one dollar an hour) every few months for top level gameplay(no sorry this isnt noobs cannonrushing as much as people keep saying this) is absurd. The fact of the matter is you all just want the content producers to do everything and you get it for free. This generation thinks that everything online should be free for them and they should be able to torrent it. Stop stuffing your face with burger king and stretch that oz. of weed another week and pay up or this is all gonna disappear(yes, there are consequences for things, i know this is hard for all the 13-21 year old demographic to consider). The excuses in this thread are disgusting considering how much everyone pretends they "support" esports. Cant wait for the arena's stream chats to be tolerable.
Supporting something isn't the same as paying money for a product at a fair price. This is not a charity. I (and many people here) don't feel like 20 bucks is worth the content, especially when you compare it to other PPV models that other leagues use.
|
My problem with this isn't the idea of PPV -- obviously tournament orgs need revenue wherever they can find it -- but the fact that MLG is hitting us with this at the same time they're completely revamping the format and organization of their season. We have no idea what a "Winter Arena" is going to be like. They're promising a lot of great stuff, and I believe they'll deliver, but I'm not going to drop money before I get an idea of what we're dealing with. They'll be offering a few free matches, which is a good idea, but for something completely unseen and untested that's not enough. Regardless of all this, as someone who works roughly 16 hours every weekend, there's no way I can justify paying for this.
|
I hope everyone who loves and wants to support esports watch assembly instead.You cant just throw 20 bucks to watch 2 day
event.
|
Northern Ireland23770 Posts
Gladly will pay for the content. MLG weekends literally consume my entire weekend, it's great, watch with a few friends and beers or chill at home and discuss it over Skype. Considering a day out at the cinema over here is upwards of 12 dollars by my estimation, for material that is on the whole fucking terrible, this is a good deal for me.
Plus I like to support E-sports, if I felt genuinely ripped off I wouldn't pay but this is good value.
|
and you have my wallet!!! now its so easy to enter mordor
|
$20 seems like too much unless MLG absolutely blows any other tourney's production out of the water O-o. I think 5-10 might be more reasonable. There's nothing inherently wrong with charging viewers to watch an event, but it's a bit tough in the sc2 community cause 1) we're used to everything being free, and 2) there are so many other tourneys who offer free content. =/
|
On February 14 2012 12:46 Adebisi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 12:44 bovineblitz wrote:
$20 is a lot for a 20 hour tournament, no? Remember there will be more than 1 stream up during these 20 hours, its a LOT of content...
Remember that I can only watch one stream at a time and know what's going on. Remember that I can't sit still and watch Starcraft for 10 hours at a time. Remember that I don't want to feel like I have to watch every single game or I wasted a good amount of money.
If it were 20 hours spread out across a week I'd be more inclined to watch it all but when it's crammed all together, I've got stuff I need to get done on the weekends. I'm only up for so many hours in a day. If the price is right I watch some and skip some and don't feel bad about it. If the price is jacked it's like paying for WoW, any second you're not taking advantage of it feels like money wasted.
Yeah I can take breaks and watch vods but then I lose that 'live' feeling that's so satisfying. And if I do that, I'll just watch another tournament and free vods later.
|
On February 14 2012 12:46 krisss wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 12:30 gladsheim wrote:
Not sure if people are cheap or are just poor, but spending $20 for a whole weekends worth of non-stop entertainment is pretty much a bargin. So i personally don't see what the problem here is. Do you want e-sports to grow at all? Sports don't grow unless viewers pay, whether it be attending or watching it from home on your tv with foxtel (or whatever American/European pay-tv is called). How much of those 20 dollars go to the actual "athletes"? nothing? like 5%? maybe 10%? Its ridiculous how an organization charges the client to watch "superstars", then taking 95% of the incomes for themselves. If we pay 20 dollars, and still the pros can barely survive with their crappy income; how much do we need to pay that the actual players we are paying for can have a nice life? like 150 dollars per 3 day pass? Sorry this business model of MLG is screwed. This is NOT for the love of esports, this is for the love of SHORT-TERM profit. Im not okay with this.
You think MLG is honestly turning a profit? They have been burning through venture capital for years. Also the PPV model has been proven to work, see MMA and Boxing. They have limited audiences, so companies need more per person to support the industry, hence the larger fee.
|
On February 14 2012 12:48 Alpino wrote:
Lol it seems young people really don't spend their money.
Well, as an unemployed college student, it's really my parents' money, and they certainly don't give a shit about eSports. Therefore, I'm not going to spend their money on something they don't care for. 
Maybe my own once I get a job, but not theirs.
|
On February 14 2012 12:52 ch33psh33p wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 12:48 Alpino wrote:
Lol it seems young people really don't spend their money. Could you make a more shallow, uninformed, and ignorant post? You're worse than the people mailing skull fucking threats to Sundance if you're going to come in here with that kind of attitude. A majority of the viewer base for SC2 simply CANNOT spend this kind of money, not without considering the ramifications involved first. You may be some rich brazillian millionaire, but not everyone treats 20 dollars like its nothing at all. To some people, 20 dollars is a big fucking deal. You have college loans, living by yourself / with roomates, living on a small paycheck in a part time job while you have classes Monday through Friday. You tell me you wouldn't think twice about shovelling out 20 dollars for an SC2 event. Jesus christ, its like people these days just don't understand the value of money anymore. You think you can throw it at anything because you have a lot of it, well GOOD FOR YOU. Not everyone is in that position.
Woah, someone is having a bad day. Where did I say I wasn't a young person.
|
This is a side event so I don't have a problem with it. But this was very unexpected.
|
On February 14 2012 12:55 Charger wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2012 12:50 ReVox wrote:
jesus christ, people are bitching that someone is charging 1 dollar an hour for the top pros from NA/EU/KR over a weekend, with a 5th dr. pepper stream giving us interviews, original content, and other stuff?
I'm going to put this as civilly as possible:
This community has an entitlement problem. The idea that you cant pay 20 bucks(again this is one dollar an hour) every few months for top level gameplay(no sorry this isnt noobs cannonrushing as much as people keep saying this) is absurd. The fact of the matter is you all just want the content producers to do everything and you get it for free. This generation thinks that everything online should be free for them and they should be able to torrent it. Stop stuffing your face with burger king and stretch that oz. of weed another week and pay up or this is all gonna disappear(yes, there are consequences for things, i know this is hard for all the 13-21 year old demographic to consider). The excuses in this thread are disgusting considering how much everyone pretends they "support" esports. Cant wait for the arena's stream chats to be tolerable. Supporting something isn't the same as paying money for a product at a fair price. This is not a charity. I (and many people here) don't feel like 20 bucks is worth the content, especially when you compare it to other PPV models that other leagues use.
I don't think it's a charity, I'm saying there wont be an MLG to tune into, and sorry but if you think 20 bucks for the best players from korea/eu/na isnt good enough than you're just being delusional with what a good tournament is and deserves.
|
I'm not paying 20 bucks for this. I'll just watch Assembly.
|
99% of the posts on this thread were not necessary.... including mine
Anyways, I won't buy winter arena.
Not because it's not worth our money, but because I would not spend more than a cdkey ($20usd is around R$34 and cdkey for SC II WOL here is R$29,90) to watch content, even tho good content, for a weekend.
Make it VIP price or whatever, but people won't pay to watch the games...
|
On February 14 2012 12:53 mastergriggy wrote:
I guess I am watching Assembly.
This
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
