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Criticism is allowed. Undue flaming is not. Take a second to think your post through before you submit.
Bans will be handed out.
Should go without saying, but don't link restreams here either. |
On February 27 2012 09:20 eLeVaTioN wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 08:56 ninjamyst wrote:
Can ANYONE list reasons how this PPV tournament is better than say....Dreamhack or HSC4?? Please do enlighten me. HSC4 had what? They had MC, MKP, Stephano and JYP, the rest of the competition may have been good EU players but not the top stars people really want to see, while this Arena had many of the top players and many of the games played were amazing with many upsets and surprises while HSC4 was basically MC dominating just about everyone he played including a 4-0 sweep in the finals which wasn't even that fun to watch because of the it. Not to mention this Arena had 4 streams that you could watch simultaneously that would always have good match ups going on, you can't really compare this Arena to anything else.
People were still bringing up HSC4 in the MLG Arena LRs, quoting lines and gifs from MC / MKP. HSC4 showed us sides of the players that Arena claimed they will show but all they showed were players yawning. Most of the games in Arena between the top players were cheesy and blah. It looked more like the players were just trying to end the games early so they can go to sleep. MLG Circuit also had many epic games. Remember the Boxer Sky Terran game? 6 months from now, will anyone still talk about Arena? Also, IPL3 popularized the multiple streams, and that tournament was FREE. It's not like Arena brought us anything new.
I am not saying Arena was a bad tournament. It was a very GOOD tournament but it's no different than other tournaments from before. It didn't raise the bar, except for the subscriber fee.
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On February 27 2012 09:30 Grimmyman123 wrote:
I'd say, a multi-teir fee structure would be great, and would lure out even more paying customers. A $10 fee for a per diem (and you get all the vods) and a $20 for all 3 days would have been a better way to do it.
A free 240p stream (a 'la GOMTV) would be suitable for a free stream. Get those numbers for advert clients that way.
you dont understand the point of this event at all do you?
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On February 27 2012 09:24 Forikorder wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 09:21 FindMeInKenya wrote:On February 27 2012 09:11 eLeVaTioN wrote:On February 27 2012 09:06 VanillaSky wrote:
two words
ad revenue Do you seriously believe that they make back what they spend every year just from ad revenue? They run their own internet streams, this isn't mainstream TV. Again, that's something Sundance has openly come out and talked about, they don't make enough back from just ad revenue, so what other choice do they have, or any other league will have for that matter? There's always sponsorship & product placement. And didn't MLG get some doe from Riot? Sundance has said thats not enough, there losing money with every event and all there competitors are doing the same with any luck winter arena made enough money to show that MLG wille eventually be able to make a profit Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 09:21 Arghmyliver wrote:
So what I'm reading here is - In order to succeed - you have to submit to the yoke of capitalism. I would rather be embraced by the warmth of love. It will be harder, but I would rather have a tangled path than an iron cell. so youd rather starve to death with some close friends then go on and live with the same close friends? your making it sound like some terrible thing the main MLG events will still be free there will jsut be special events held that will be PPV
I'm looking at the bigger picture. But my friends, MLK, Gandhi, the Dalai Lama - maybe even Jesus - all know what I'm trying to say. I simply wish it were easier to accept that the world is run by greedy lunatics. But it's hard. I know it's hard. I'm sorry - I will try to make it as easy as I can. The world sucks - we are the only people who can do a thing about it - but you must learn to reject the spoon that has fed you. You must not continue to drink from their trough - instead you must rise! Create for yourself your own food! The food of love. : )
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On February 27 2012 09:32 Arghmyliver wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 09:24 Forikorder wrote:On February 27 2012 09:21 FindMeInKenya wrote:On February 27 2012 09:11 eLeVaTioN wrote:On February 27 2012 09:06 VanillaSky wrote:
two words
ad revenue Do you seriously believe that they make back what they spend every year just from ad revenue? They run their own internet streams, this isn't mainstream TV. Again, that's something Sundance has openly come out and talked about, they don't make enough back from just ad revenue, so what other choice do they have, or any other league will have for that matter? There's always sponsorship & product placement. And didn't MLG get some doe from Riot? Sundance has said thats not enough, there losing money with every event and all there competitors are doing the same with any luck winter arena made enough money to show that MLG wille eventually be able to make a profit On February 27 2012 09:21 Arghmyliver wrote:
So what I'm reading here is - In order to succeed - you have to submit to the yoke of capitalism. I would rather be embraced by the warmth of love. It will be harder, but I would rather have a tangled path than an iron cell. so youd rather starve to death with some close friends then go on and live with the same close friends? your making it sound like some terrible thing the main MLG events will still be free there will jsut be special events held that will be PPV I'm looking at the bigger picture. But my friends, MLK, Gandhi, the Dalai Lama - maybe even Jesus - all know what I'm trying to say. I simply wish it were easier to accept that the world is run by greedy lunatics. But it's hard. I know it's hard. I'm sorry - I will try to make it as easy as I can. The world sucks - we are the only people who can do a thing about it - but you must learn to reject the spoon that has fed you. You must not continue to drink from their trough - instead you must rise! Create for yourself your own food! The food of love. : )
You're apparently some sort of idiot who believes he's walking the boddhisattva path but doesn't understand what the hell he's talking about.
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What strange is that until the middle of the 3rd game between DRG and MKP I could watch the stream for free in 1080p.
I started watching when huk played drg and I worked fine until above mentioned match and the stream went down for a few minutes and afterwards popped up with a subscription fee window.
Either they should make it ppv from the beginning but i sucks if you already watched 2 games for free and are than asked to pay 20$ just to watch the rest.
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On February 27 2012 09:02 Grimmyman123 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 08:57 Astro-Penguin wrote:
From a ethical perspective yes it is the right choice, but that doesn't change the fact that the paying customers are being screwed over, I would even be happy with an apology and future initiative to fix this problem as a compensation which is hopefully and likely to be addressed after the event. I never said I felt worse about myself either, I feel just rather angry that others are getting the same if not better quality of product where as myself as an honest contributor is getting shafted, basically I just want myself and others to be recognized for our honesty, call me selfish but I think that with the given price for this event its the least we deserve.
Watching a restream ONLY hurts the production organisation directly. Don't fool yourself that it hurts players and teams. If the prize pool was directly a percentage of revenue, that is the only way it can hurt the players or teams directly. That being said, the restreaming was mostly from russian or eastern EU stream sites. They were not easy to find, and they were unstable at best. The number of people watching a restream was fairly low. As such the lost biz was minimal.
Do you agree that having high-quality tournaments is good for players and teams?
MLG is paying the expenses of every player at this event. Some, like Axslav, are only able to attend because MLG is paying for them. They can't do that if they can't make money. If they can't pay those expenses, that means the teams are responsible for those costs. EG, Liquid and IM have three players there. Quantic, FXO and dignitas have two. Complexity has two plus costs for DRG - I think that's how that partnership works. Costs for transporting two or three players to New York, finding them room and board for three days... that's a significant outlay. Those costs can easily run into the thousands of dollars, especially when flights have to be changed at the last moment. MLG paying those bills means the teams don't have to. That means later maybe Complexity can afford to send Mike Ross to a tournament, or FXO can send Oz to another foreign event instead of just Leenock. For the players, they have events to compete in that have high profiles and decent prizes. Winter Arena has been really good for some of these guys. Ret took down MVP! Sase beat San! Demuslim beat Nestea! Naniwa beat Nestea in a damn high-profile rematch! Grubby beat Thorzain AND Losira! Those are really, really nice results. Those are the kind of results that really build a player's image. Someone might get a Code S seed. Guys like Demuslim and (I think) Grubby have gotten seeds into Columbus. That can be a big deal as well.
So clearly events like these are good for the players and the teams. They have to make money to continue. Taking money away from the hosting organization means they're less likely to happen in the future.
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On February 27 2012 09:36 Code:Closer wrote:
What strange is that until the middle of the 3rd game between DRG and MKP I could watch the stream for free in 1080p.
I started watching when huk played drg and I worked fine until above mentioned match and the stream went down for a few minutes and afterwards popped up with a subscription fee window.
Either they should make it ppv from the beginning but i sucks if you already watched 2 games for free and are than asked to pay 20$ just to watch the rest.
Funny, I didn't have that problem. Probably because I paid for the event on Friday.
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I can understand, I think, what MLG was thinking with the $20 price tag. Similar number of games to a GSL season (I don't have the exact numbers), so the price should be the same, right? There are a couple of problems with this reasoning.
1) Since the games are played just about back to back all weekend, there is no way that anyone will watch all of the games and get the full value of the price of admission, whereas if there are 4 games every weekday night it's not too much trouble for most to catch up when you can. I know there are some who have watched every single game with multiple streams open, but I'll wager that the average MLG customer isn't represented well by that notion. So the actual value to the customer is actually far less than a GSL season, in terms of number of games watched; conclusion, reduce the price.
2) Production costs have to be much less than a GSL season. Running a studio every weekday night for multiple months, with preparation and staff costs, is a different order of problem than running an event for 3 consecutive days. I doubt the costs are really comparable; conclusion, reduce the price.
Bottom line, $20 is not a price that is in line with the actual value. 1/3 the cost of the actual game to watch maybe 10 or 15 matches over a few days if you are an average viewer? No thanks. Something ~$5 though, and I would consider being a customer.
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On February 27 2012 09:30 ninjamyst wrote:
People were still bringing up HSC4 in the MLG Arena LRs, quoting lines and gifs from MC / MKP. HSC4 showed us sides of the players that Arena claimed they will show but all they showed were players yawning. Most of the games in Arena between the top players were cheesy and blah. It looked more like the players were just trying to end the games early so they can go to sleep. MLG Circuit also had many epic games. Remember the Boxer Sky Terran game? 6 months from now, will anyone still talk about Arena? Also, IPL3 popularized the multiple streams, and that tournament was FREE. It's not like Arena brought us anything new.
I am not saying Arena was a bad tournament. It was a very GOOD tournament but it's no different than other tournaments from before. It didn't raise the bar, except for the subscriber fee.
I can see people talking about Demuslim's run, or at least his match vs. Nestea, or Naniwa's run through Nestea and Leenock. MLG also has had multiple streams longer than IPL has, MLG has run 4 streams for SC2 for how many events this past season? like 4 or 5? IPL 3 was just back in October so I wouldn't say IPL did it first, but at the same time you brought up Dreamhack and HSC4, not IPL. Compared to HSC4 which had lower tier competition except maybe 4 or 5 players and a one sided finals, this Arena had the top competition for the most part with many close games and many surprises. In HSC4 everyone expected MC to make it to the finals or at least make it in the T3, who expected MKP and DRG to make the finals this Arena? or Demuslim to break the T12 while defeating nestea, or Naniwa's run, or Oz's great run? Yeah people did all ins quite a bit, but that happens in every tournament, and like I said it at least showed that they wanted to win and I would much rather pay to watch a tournament where players want to win rather than watch a free tournament with players throwing games away
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On February 27 2012 09:32 Arghmyliver wrote:
I'm looking at the bigger picture. But my friends, MLK, Gandhi, the Dalai Lama - maybe even Jesus - all know what I'm trying to say. I simply wish it were easier to accept that the world is run by greedy lunatics. But it's hard. I know it's hard. I'm sorry - I will try to make it as easy as I can. The world sucks - we are the only people who can do a thing about it - but you must learn to reject the spoon that has fed you. You must not continue to drink from their trough - instead you must rise! Create for yourself your own food! The food of love. : )
I hope you don't actually believe this crap. Money is a system where you can create value, get compensation, and use that compensation to get value somewhere else. You are the greedy one here, because you take value from MLG, and give no compensation. How is that love, stealing from someone? If you want to be a good, loving human being, try to create value for people like MLG is doing, or at least give compensation when you take value.
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The blackout was not an actual blackout but rather a VERY questionable decision by the mlg staff.
There was the possibility to watch the stream for free if you browse the mlg page via the incognito mode at chrome.
While i paid for watching some of my friends abused that bug.
They shut the stream off right at the most exciting point of the last match of the first bo3 just in order to fix the incognito bug.
That was pretty much obvious since the bug was suddenly fixed when the stream came back on a few minutes later.
This plus the fact that the wholee vent is pay per view clearly shows that they don't really care about the user and they do even sacrifice the viewer experience just in order to maybe sqeueeze in some more subscriptions since they banned everybody who wanted to watch some nice matches in the evening for free.
Just registered to share that info with you!
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On February 27 2012 09:35 silentsod wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 09:32 Arghmyliver wrote:On February 27 2012 09:24 Forikorder wrote:On February 27 2012 09:21 FindMeInKenya wrote:On February 27 2012 09:11 eLeVaTioN wrote:On February 27 2012 09:06 VanillaSky wrote:
two words
ad revenue Do you seriously believe that they make back what they spend every year just from ad revenue? They run their own internet streams, this isn't mainstream TV. Again, that's something Sundance has openly come out and talked about, they don't make enough back from just ad revenue, so what other choice do they have, or any other league will have for that matter? There's always sponsorship & product placement. And didn't MLG get some doe from Riot? Sundance has said thats not enough, there losing money with every event and all there competitors are doing the same with any luck winter arena made enough money to show that MLG wille eventually be able to make a profit On February 27 2012 09:21 Arghmyliver wrote:
So what I'm reading here is - In order to succeed - you have to submit to the yoke of capitalism. I would rather be embraced by the warmth of love. It will be harder, but I would rather have a tangled path than an iron cell. so youd rather starve to death with some close friends then go on and live with the same close friends? your making it sound like some terrible thing the main MLG events will still be free there will jsut be special events held that will be PPV I'm looking at the bigger picture. But my friends, MLK, Gandhi, the Dalai Lama - maybe even Jesus - all know what I'm trying to say. I simply wish it were easier to accept that the world is run by greedy lunatics. But it's hard. I know it's hard. I'm sorry - I will try to make it as easy as I can. The world sucks - we are the only people who can do a thing about it - but you must learn to reject the spoon that has fed you. You must not continue to drink from their trough - instead you must rise! Create for yourself your own food! The food of love. : ) You're apparently some sort of idiot who believes he's walking the boddhisattva path but doesn't understand what the hell he's talking about.
My only message is this one.
I love you.
Is the true idiot the man who looks to the stars, or the man who grovels for bread at the feet of his master?
As for religion, I have none.
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If mlg and other tournaments are losing money with the amount of viewers sc2 brought in, i don't see how esports existed pre sc2. It is really mind boggling.
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On February 27 2012 09:28 eLeVaTioN wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 09:21 FindMeInKenya wrote:
There's always sponsorship & product placement. And didn't MLG get some doe from Riot? They've had big sponsors for a number of years, yet Sundance is still saying that's not enough to at least break even. Again, every league will have to find a way to self-sustain and PPV events will be one method of doing so
Not saying PPV isn't a valid method but I believe there's definitely a better way of doing things. They can do some actuarial science and construct a sustainable model or cut down cost (don't tell me there's no room, there's always room) while inflicting minimal production lost. SC2's target audience is mainly the adolescence and early young adult group thus PPV most likely not going to be sustainable in the long run.
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On February 27 2012 09:31 Forikorder wrote:
you dont understand the point of this event at all do you?
Absolutely. Make a ton of money during what would normally be the off season prior to the first convention center event.
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On February 27 2012 09:40 mrmyers wrote:
The blackout was not an actual blackout but rather a VERY questionable decision by the mlg staff.
There was the possibility to watch the stream for free if you browse the mlg page via the incognito mode at chrome.
While i paid for watching some of my friends abused that bug.
They shut the stream off right at the most exciting point of the last match of the first bo3 just in order to fix the incognito bug.
That was pretty much obvious since the bug was suddenly fixed when the stream came back on a few minutes later.
This plus the fact that the wholee vent is pay per view clearly shows that they don't really care about the user and they do even sacrifice the viewer experience just in order to maybe sqeueeze in some more subscriptions since they banned everybody who wanted to watch some nice matches in the evening for free.
Just registered to share that info with you!
Yeah no. I am still watching for free.
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United States5162 Posts
On February 27 2012 09:40 mrmyers wrote:
The blackout was not an actual blackout but rather a VERY questionable decision by the mlg staff.
There was the possibility to watch the stream for free if you browse the mlg page via the incognito mode at chrome.
While i paid for watching some of my friends abused that bug.
They shut the stream off right at the most exciting point of the last match of the first bo3 just in order to fix the incognito bug.
That was pretty much obvious since the bug was suddenly fixed when the stream came back on a few minutes later.
This plus the fact that the wholee vent is pay per view clearly shows that they don't really care about the user and they do even sacrifice the viewer experience just in order to maybe sqeueeze in some more subscriptions since they banned everybody who wanted to watch some nice matches in the evening for free.
Just registered to share that info with you!
While this may be true, it didn't fix the bug. Or at least not completely.
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On February 27 2012 09:41 Arghmyliver wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 09:35 silentsod wrote:On February 27 2012 09:32 Arghmyliver wrote:On February 27 2012 09:24 Forikorder wrote:On February 27 2012 09:21 FindMeInKenya wrote:On February 27 2012 09:11 eLeVaTioN wrote:On February 27 2012 09:06 VanillaSky wrote:
two words
ad revenue Do you seriously believe that they make back what they spend every year just from ad revenue? They run their own internet streams, this isn't mainstream TV. Again, that's something Sundance has openly come out and talked about, they don't make enough back from just ad revenue, so what other choice do they have, or any other league will have for that matter? There's always sponsorship & product placement. And didn't MLG get some doe from Riot? Sundance has said thats not enough, there losing money with every event and all there competitors are doing the same with any luck winter arena made enough money to show that MLG wille eventually be able to make a profit On February 27 2012 09:21 Arghmyliver wrote:
So what I'm reading here is - In order to succeed - you have to submit to the yoke of capitalism. I would rather be embraced by the warmth of love. It will be harder, but I would rather have a tangled path than an iron cell. so youd rather starve to death with some close friends then go on and live with the same close friends? your making it sound like some terrible thing the main MLG events will still be free there will jsut be special events held that will be PPV I'm looking at the bigger picture. But my friends, MLK, Gandhi, the Dalai Lama - maybe even Jesus - all know what I'm trying to say. I simply wish it were easier to accept that the world is run by greedy lunatics. But it's hard. I know it's hard. I'm sorry - I will try to make it as easy as I can. The world sucks - we are the only people who can do a thing about it - but you must learn to reject the spoon that has fed you. You must not continue to drink from their trough - instead you must rise! Create for yourself your own food! The food of love. : ) You're apparently some sort of idiot who believes he's walking the boddhisattva path but doesn't understand what the hell he's talking about. My only message is this one. I love you. Is the true idiot the man who looks to the stars, or the man who grovels for bread at the feet of his master? As for religion, I have none.
3/10
For reference, that's about the level of trolling commonly seen out of 4chan. Try harder, but do it somewhere else please.
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On February 27 2012 09:42 Arghmyliver wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2012 09:40 mrmyers wrote:
The blackout was not an actual blackout but rather a VERY questionable decision by the mlg staff.
There was the possibility to watch the stream for free if you browse the mlg page via the incognito mode at chrome.
While i paid for watching some of my friends abused that bug.
They shut the stream off right at the most exciting point of the last match of the first bo3 just in order to fix the incognito bug.
That was pretty much obvious since the bug was suddenly fixed when the stream came back on a few minutes later.
This plus the fact that the wholee vent is pay per view clearly shows that they don't really care about the user and they do even sacrifice the viewer experience just in order to maybe sqeueeze in some more subscriptions since they banned everybody who wanted to watch some nice matches in the evening for free.
Just registered to share that info with you! Yeah no. I am still watching for free.
but not on the mlg page via the incognito bug which is fixed
ofc there are probably still freestreams and other bugs
its not about the fact if they did actually fix it or not but that they give a shit about their paying subscribers and shut off the stream at a crucial moment just in order to get some more $$$
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On February 27 2012 09:41 OrangeSoda wrote:
If mlg and other tournaments are losing money with the amount of viewers sc2 brought in, i don't see how esports existed pre sc2. It is really mind boggling.
it didnt outside Korea where pretty mcuh everyone tuned in
talk to any foreigner during BW theyll tell you about spending more to get to a tournament then the tournament offered
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EPT
