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Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay. Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions. | ||
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mlspmatt
Canada404 Posts
And I'm gonna miss the ghost. I don't think terrans are going to make them much in TvZ if this nurf happens. They're so expensive, and need the two upgrades, and with their output cut in half, investing those resources in Vikings/air upgrades or more Rax might be a better investment. It's terrible for the game and as a fan. I wanna see more ghosts, not less ghosts. | ||
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klops
United States674 Posts
25+20 non-massive and call it a day just make the tooltip 45 (-20 massive) because i know someone is going to bring up the tooltip excuse | ||
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Ownos
United States2147 Posts
On February 12 2012 14:03 S1eth wrote: Blizzard designed the races to play easy/difficult in different areas of the game. Terran: + easy resource management (MULES), supply management (supply calldown) and detection/scout (scan) - 3 different unit producing structures, need to cycle through them and queue up a unit each all the time, remaxes slow Zerg: + all units produced from a single building, ability to produce a large number of units at the same time - unforgiving macro mechanic (larva inject, missing the timing) Protoss: + free hotkey for all warpgates + can build units anywhere (warp-in), can produce/research faster (chronoboost) - ? - You can't queue up gateway units. You have to change your view to build them. If you miss a warp in round, it's gone. Pretty much like missing the timing on a larva inject except protoss players don't whine about it.  We also don't have an easy backspace inject method to help trivialize that. | ||
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XxMulexX
Canada57 Posts
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Glockateer
United States254 Posts
If they REALLY wanted to lower snipe effectiveness then increase the mana cost to 30/35. Ghosts aren't exactly cheap like people seem to think they are and 150-200 energy would effectively drop it from 6-8 snipes to 4-6 snipes. That said, the mule nerf I don't really care about. Extra mule income from gold bases was stupid anyway. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
I'd have preferred something like 25 + 25 vs Light. | ||
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S1eth
Austria221 Posts
On February 12 2012 15:52 Ownos wrote: - You can't queue up gateway units. You can, but I wouldn't recommend it. | ||
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Glockateer
United States254 Posts
On February 12 2012 15:36 mlspmatt wrote: I occasionally play Toss and Zerg, and I find their macro much more forgiving. If you miss a macro round as Terran, it's gone, you missed it. With Zerg you just spend more larva, with Toss you warp stuff in then chrono and do it again. I wouldn't say terran macro is harder, just less forgiving. And I'm gonna miss the ghost. I don't think terrans are going to make them much in TvZ if this nurf happens. They're so expensive, and need the two upgrades, and with their output cut in half, investing those resources in Vikings/air upgrades or more Rax might be a better investment. It's terrible for the game and as a fan. I wanna see more ghosts, not less ghosts. The people who say terran macro is the easiest don't play terran well then. You have to constantly cycle multiple structures for units that all have different build times. Zergs cry about a single 25 second larve inject? Easy. Try 3/4 different timers perfectly since each unit has a different build time. The only positive side to terran macro is changing the camera a little less from the units but the timing itself is more difficult to hit on every unit that pops out. We still have to do mules and supply depots while zerg just presses overlord and only worries about an inject and creep tumors. Zerg certainly has the easiest macro mechanically but have to deal with the hard decisions of the larva itself (drone vs unit). I'd say all race macro is about the same effort with terran being slightly harder mechanically. That isn't even to mention how T has the most intensive micro due to how the units have to work to be cost efficient. | ||
Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On February 12 2012 15:37 klops wrote: why they chose this psionic shit is beyond me 25+20 non-massive and call it a day just make the tooltip 45 (-20 massive) because i know someone is going to bring up the tooltip excuse They wanted to make snipe an anti-caster tool, because they pretty much want ghosts to be the anti-caster unit pretty much exclusively (with the exception of nukes). Now, snipe will kill off any caster in the game in 2 hits. EMP is useful for a short term ability to shut down a few casters if they clump, and great against protoss in general, but snipe is a good way to actually do long term damage to casters, and to shut them down if they split. | ||
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Charger
United States2405 Posts
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eeizbee
Canada19 Posts
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di3alot
172 Posts
On February 12 2012 15:52 Ownos wrote: - You can't queue up gateway units. You have to change your view to build them. If you miss a warp in round, it's gone. Pretty much like missing the timing on a larva inject except protoss players don't whine about it. We also don't have an easy backspace inject method to help trivialize that.im not sure if a not knowing person is called stupid but you are a not knowing person. nah...i think you are trolling i dont think someone can rly write something like that. | ||
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Sandermatt
Switzerland1365 Posts
On February 12 2012 15:36 mlspmatt wrote: I occasionally play Toss and Zerg, and I find their macro much more forgiving. If you miss a macro round as Terran, it's gone, you missed it. With Zerg you just spend more larva, with Toss you warp stuff in then chrono and do it again. I wouldn't say terran macro is harder, just less forgiving. And I'm gonna miss the ghost. I don't think terrans are going to make them much in TvZ if this nurf happens. They're so expensive, and need the two upgrades, and with their output cut in half, investing those resources in Vikings/air upgrades or more Rax might be a better investment. It's terrible for the game and as a fan. I wanna see more ghosts, not less ghosts. About your comment on forgiving macro: If you miss it with toss and chrono, you miss whatever else you would have chronoed if you didn't miss the cycle. If you miss an inject as zerg it's gone as well. Terrans can que up the second cycle before the first cycle finishes (you shouldn't que up too much, but still you do not have to wait until the last unit is produced). Neither injects nor warpgate cycles can be qued up. I agree that terrans need a lot of micro in many situations, but their macro surely isn't less forgiving than the one of zergs and protosses. About the changes: I like the mule change. The ghost change seems a little bit extreme. In TvZ they might remain somewhat useful for nukes and emps for infestors, but in uch smaller numbers. In TvT they most likely vanish completly (altough they were already rare). In TvP the change does little, You can no longer snipe zealots but otherwise. I think the range upgrade will actually help protoss, even on the fleet beacon, as protosses build motherships in PvZ anyway. | ||
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tauon
Australia1278 Posts
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Luppy1
Singapore177 Posts
On February 12 2012 16:28 Charger wrote: I just wanted to come in and apologize in advance to all the Zerg players who match up with me in the coming weeks for all the 2 base all ins. I am sorry. Already pretty much 90% of the ZvT I play. At least I get rewarded for surviving to late game now. | ||
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Bulkers
Poland509 Posts
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GloryOfAiur
United States127 Posts
Love Blizzard! | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On February 12 2012 15:52 Ownos wrote: - You can't queue up gateway units. You have to change your view to build them. If you miss a warp in round, it's gone. Pretty much like missing the timing on a larva inject except protoss players don't whine about it. We also don't have an easy backspace inject method to help trivialize that.are you seriously comparing the warp in mechanism with inject larvae? Really? | ||
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cozzE
Australia357 Posts
On February 12 2012 16:56 Sandermatt wrote: About your comment on forgiving macro: If you miss it with toss and chrono, you miss whatever else you would have chronoed if you didn't miss the cycle. If you miss an inject as zerg it's gone as well. Terrans can que up the second cycle before the first cycle finishes (you shouldn't que up too much, but still you do not have to wait until the last unit is produced). Neither injects nor warpgate cycles can be qued up. I agree that terrans need a lot of micro in many situations, but their macro surely isn't less forgiving than the one of zergs and protosses. About the changes: I like the mule change. The ghost change seems a little bit extreme. In TvZ they might remain somewhat useful for nukes and emps for infestors, but in uch smaller numbers. In TvT they most likely vanish completly (altough they were already rare). In TvP the change does little, You can no longer snipe zealots but otherwise. I think the range upgrade will actually help protoss, even on the fleet beacon, as protosses build motherships in PvZ anyway. you are totally clueless and don't know how each respective races macro mechanic works. Your talking as if Queuing is a good thing that helps T when this couldn't be any further from the truth. The fact you're bringing queuing into this argument means you cannot conceptualize the top level of play by any means - as queuing for terran is a deathwish, money tied in production buildings = potential buildings/units/upgrades wasted. The only worrisome change will be the ghost change, the rest make sense at the moment for top level play. Things will definitely get a lot harder for diamond and masters level terran users. | ||
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VoO
Germany278 Posts
On February 12 2012 17:31 cozzE wrote: you are totally clueless and don't know how each respective races macro mechanic works. Your talking as if Queuing is a good thing that helps T when this couldn't be any further from the truth. The fact you're bringing queuing into this argument means you cannot conceptualize the top level of play by any means - as queuing for terran is a deathwish, money tied in production buildings = potential buildings/units/upgrades wasted. The only worrisome change will be the ghost change, the rest make sense at the moment for top level play. Things will definitely get a lot harder for diamond and masters level terran users. Even before the patch it was brutal for a high master terran to make the tech switch surviving ling to infestor to ultras (which is btw standard play in masters), now it will require massive scouting every 30 seconds to react properly with ghost/marauders. I really don't understand Blizzard, Terran was a complete race, why make them incomplete instead of completing the other two races... | ||
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