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Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay.
Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions. |
So obviously terran will have a even harder time dealing with lategame Z with infestor / broodlord combo. What would be a good change to do, that wouldnt interfer to much with the other matchups. Maybe make HSM even faster, or upg. it's dmg? I feel like ravens should be used a lot more than they currently are in tvz.
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On February 12 2012 07:07 mlspmatt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 06:42 Dalavita wrote:On February 12 2012 06:39 gosuMalicE wrote:On February 12 2012 06:33 SolidMoose wrote:On February 12 2012 05:46 Apolo wrote:I'd like to remind you guys of something. Never, since 2011, has terran been below 51% of win rate aggainst Zerg. They have always have the advantage in the matchup. I'm not sure what people are complaining about. Even if this patch were to tip the scales in the other way, it would only been fair for Zergs, after always going to a match knowing aggainst and equal skill opponent, they have less chances to win than him. LOL two wrongs don't make a right. Making zerg heavily favored doesn't fix anything because of past data. If you think this patch will magically shift the TvZ balance from slightly T favored to a massively Z Favored, then there is something wrong with your head, it will most likely have a minor effect at best and may not even put zerg over 50% (much bigger changes have been shown, in the past, to have relatively minor effects on W/L stats) we will have to wait 1-2 months after the patch is released and statistics have stabilized, to even try to figure out the results of this. The nerf won't even change a thing statistically, because terrans will all-in and develop two base timings more. Will it make the game worse because the matchups become more one-dimensional and crappy? yes Will it fuck up terran lategame even more than it currently is? YES TvZ is going to turn into what TvP is today. Cripple your opponent before 20 minutes, or lose. This. Exactley. Late game TvZ is already in Zergs favor, this just tips the ballance even further. More 2 base timings and 1 base All-Ins which as a viewer pisses me off. 1/2 of Protoss games are already that way. Ghost play is some of the most entertaining play in SC2. Now wew're going to see far less of it.
Late game is not really in zerg favor (let me explain). Due to the nature of the game If a terran wins early he just wins, if a zerg wins early he often has to do 10-15 mins of mopup so when he finally gets his GG, it may appear to be a lategme victory but was really not.
Consider there are 10 games where nothing is really decided til lategame, zerg wins 5 and terran wins 5. (50% W/L)
Now consider 10 more games that are decided in the early game terran wins 5 and ends them quickly, zerg also wins 5 and ends 3 quickly, but in 2 the terran uses mules, walls + repairing scv,s, defensive tanks, planetary fortresses, and other tactics to draw out the game even though he is 95% sure to lose it in the end. When zerg finally finishes him off it appears to be a lategame victory, but really isn't. This is the reason why terran might appear to be weaker late and stronger early if looking at the statistics alone.
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On February 12 2012 05:05 shizna wrote:
there actually aren't as many terran tears as i would have expected...
perhaps all of the decent terran players saved their energy to write emails to blizzard?
I think they're in shock.
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On February 12 2012 06:42 Cr7Terran wrote:
so because mvp, mma, mkp, bomber, etc win tournaments that mean tha terran is imba?
So because random diamond terran sucks that means terran is underpowered now?
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On February 12 2012 07:16 gosuMalicE wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 07:07 mlspmatt wrote:On February 12 2012 06:42 Dalavita wrote:On February 12 2012 06:39 gosuMalicE wrote:On February 12 2012 06:33 SolidMoose wrote:On February 12 2012 05:46 Apolo wrote:I'd like to remind you guys of something. Never, since 2011, has terran been below 51% of win rate aggainst Zerg. They have always have the advantage in the matchup. I'm not sure what people are complaining about. Even if this patch were to tip the scales in the other way, it would only been fair for Zergs, after always going to a match knowing aggainst and equal skill opponent, they have less chances to win than him. LOL two wrongs don't make a right. Making zerg heavily favored doesn't fix anything because of past data. If you think this patch will magically shift the TvZ balance from slightly T favored to a massively Z Favored, then there is something wrong with your head, it will most likely have a minor effect at best and may not even put zerg over 50% (much bigger changes have been shown, in the past, to have relatively minor effects on W/L stats) we will have to wait 1-2 months after the patch is released and statistics have stabilized, to even try to figure out the results of this. The nerf won't even change a thing statistically, because terrans will all-in and develop two base timings more. Will it make the game worse because the matchups become more one-dimensional and crappy? yes Will it fuck up terran lategame even more than it currently is? YES TvZ is going to turn into what TvP is today. Cripple your opponent before 20 minutes, or lose. This. Exactley. Late game TvZ is already in Zergs favor, this just tips the ballance even further. More 2 base timings and 1 base All-Ins which as a viewer pisses me off. 1/2 of Protoss games are already that way. Ghost play is some of the most entertaining play in SC2. Now wew're going to see far less of it. Late game is not really in zerg favor (let me explain). Due to the nature of the game If a terran wins early he just wins, if a zerg wins early he often has to do 10-15 mins of mopup so when he finally gets his GG, it may appear to be a lategme victory but was really not. Consider there are 10 games where nothing is really decided til lategame, zerg wins 5 and terran wins 5. (50% W/L) Now consider 10 more games that are decided in the early game terran wins 5 and ends them quickly, zerg also wins 5 and ends 3 quickly, but in 2 the terran uses mules, walls + repairing scv,s, defensive tanks, planetary fortresses, and other tactics to draw out the game even though he is 95% sure to lose it in the end. When zerg finally finishes him off it appears to be a lategame victory, but really isn't. This is the reason why terran might appear to be weaker late and stronger early if looking at the statistics alone. Yea, zerg's 65% win ratio in the late game happens because they always get to the late game far ahead, makes sense, also, to add to that, I think terran players can't handle macroing and that's why they lose so much in the late game, zerg players are just better, they are also smarter. ::wink:
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On February 12 2012 07:16 gosuMalicE wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 07:07 mlspmatt wrote:On February 12 2012 06:42 Dalavita wrote:On February 12 2012 06:39 gosuMalicE wrote:On February 12 2012 06:33 SolidMoose wrote:On February 12 2012 05:46 Apolo wrote:I'd like to remind you guys of something. Never, since 2011, has terran been below 51% of win rate aggainst Zerg. They have always have the advantage in the matchup. I'm not sure what people are complaining about. Even if this patch were to tip the scales in the other way, it would only been fair for Zergs, after always going to a match knowing aggainst and equal skill opponent, they have less chances to win than him. LOL two wrongs don't make a right. Making zerg heavily favored doesn't fix anything because of past data. If you think this patch will magically shift the TvZ balance from slightly T favored to a massively Z Favored, then there is something wrong with your head, it will most likely have a minor effect at best and may not even put zerg over 50% (much bigger changes have been shown, in the past, to have relatively minor effects on W/L stats) we will have to wait 1-2 months after the patch is released and statistics have stabilized, to even try to figure out the results of this. The nerf won't even change a thing statistically, because terrans will all-in and develop two base timings more. Will it make the game worse because the matchups become more one-dimensional and crappy? yes Will it fuck up terran lategame even more than it currently is? YES TvZ is going to turn into what TvP is today. Cripple your opponent before 20 minutes, or lose. This. Exactley. Late game TvZ is already in Zergs favor, this just tips the ballance even further. More 2 base timings and 1 base All-Ins which as a viewer pisses me off. 1/2 of Protoss games are already that way. Ghost play is some of the most entertaining play in SC2. Now wew're going to see far less of it. Late game is not really in zerg favor (let me explain). Due to the nature of the game If a terran wins early he just wins, if a zerg wins early he often has to do 10-15 mins of mopup so when he finally gets his GG, it may appear to be a lategme victory but was really not. Consider there are 10 games where nothing is really decided til lategame, zerg wins 5 and terran wins 5. (50% W/L) Now consider 10 more games that are decided in the early game terran wins 5 and ends them quickly, zerg also wins 5 and ends 3 quickly, but in 2 the terran uses mules, walls + repairing scv,s, defensive tanks, planetary fortresses, and other tactics to draw out the game even though he is 95% sure to lose it in the end. When zerg finally finishes him off it appears to be a lategame victory, but really isn't. This is the reason why terran might appear to be weaker late and stronger early if looking at the statistics alone.
If u follow the pro scene, u don't need statistic to see that terran is the weakest race late game. The huge difference in win rate by game length is not only explained by what u just stated.
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Canada11509 Posts
On February 11 2012 13:34 Ansinjunger wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 12:50 Demnogonis wrote:
Mule change seems reasonable, even though I'd still prefer gold bases just go. Planetary Fortress, Siege Tanks, Mules still helping you to mine them out faster...
Phoenix upgrade really should be in Cybercore but it's a good idea, I really don't like how the answer to Phoenix is making even more Mutalisks.
Snipe change I really didn't see coming, Ghost wasn't some super-effective counter to everything and Sniping was pretty fun. No matter though, if there's no reason to aim for the late game, that's fine by me. BIT BY BIT!
APM, CPM, who cares, I just want the ability to permanently shut down chat, while Zerg crying is the most beautiful sound in the world it's getting really old. I love that they're putting back in spam APM and making a separate CPM, which may be ignored by many, but it could still be a tool people refer to when watching their own replays or something. I didn't quite ascertain whether it's still in Blizzard time; I assume it is as there's no mention one way or the other.
Does anyone know about this? Are they going back to Action's Per Blizzard Minute or are they finally fixing Blizzard time to give us actual APM?
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On February 12 2012 07:29 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 13:34 Ansinjunger wrote:On February 11 2012 12:50 Demnogonis wrote:
Mule change seems reasonable, even though I'd still prefer gold bases just go. Planetary Fortress, Siege Tanks, Mules still helping you to mine them out faster...
Phoenix upgrade really should be in Cybercore but it's a good idea, I really don't like how the answer to Phoenix is making even more Mutalisks.
Snipe change I really didn't see coming, Ghost wasn't some super-effective counter to everything and Sniping was pretty fun. No matter though, if there's no reason to aim for the late game, that's fine by me. BIT BY BIT!
APM, CPM, who cares, I just want the ability to permanently shut down chat, while Zerg crying is the most beautiful sound in the world it's getting really old. I love that they're putting back in spam APM and making a separate CPM, which may be ignored by many, but it could still be a tool people refer to when watching their own replays or something. I didn't quite ascertain whether it's still in Blizzard time; I assume it is as there's no mention one way or the other. Does anyone know about this? Are they going back to Action's Per Blizzard Minute or are they finally fixing Blizzard time to give us actual APM?
From what I gathered they are going to have both now instead of just one. Unless I misread the few times I read it xD
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On February 12 2012 07:29 Falling wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 13:34 Ansinjunger wrote:On February 11 2012 12:50 Demnogonis wrote:
Mule change seems reasonable, even though I'd still prefer gold bases just go. Planetary Fortress, Siege Tanks, Mules still helping you to mine them out faster...
Phoenix upgrade really should be in Cybercore but it's a good idea, I really don't like how the answer to Phoenix is making even more Mutalisks.
Snipe change I really didn't see coming, Ghost wasn't some super-effective counter to everything and Sniping was pretty fun. No matter though, if there's no reason to aim for the late game, that's fine by me. BIT BY BIT!
APM, CPM, who cares, I just want the ability to permanently shut down chat, while Zerg crying is the most beautiful sound in the world it's getting really old. I love that they're putting back in spam APM and making a separate CPM, which may be ignored by many, but it could still be a tool people refer to when watching their own replays or something. I didn't quite ascertain whether it's still in Blizzard time; I assume it is as there's no mention one way or the other. Does anyone know about this? Are they going back to Action's Per Blizzard Minute or are they finally fixing Blizzard time to give us actual APM?
Wording indicates Blizzard APM, which means you still have to multiply it by 1.38.
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On February 12 2012 07:16 gosuMalicE wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 07:07 mlspmatt wrote:On February 12 2012 06:42 Dalavita wrote:On February 12 2012 06:39 gosuMalicE wrote:On February 12 2012 06:33 SolidMoose wrote:On February 12 2012 05:46 Apolo wrote:I'd like to remind you guys of something. Never, since 2011, has terran been below 51% of win rate aggainst Zerg. They have always have the advantage in the matchup. I'm not sure what people are complaining about. Even if this patch were to tip the scales in the other way, it would only been fair for Zergs, after always going to a match knowing aggainst and equal skill opponent, they have less chances to win than him. LOL two wrongs don't make a right. Making zerg heavily favored doesn't fix anything because of past data. If you think this patch will magically shift the TvZ balance from slightly T favored to a massively Z Favored, then there is something wrong with your head, it will most likely have a minor effect at best and may not even put zerg over 50% (much bigger changes have been shown, in the past, to have relatively minor effects on W/L stats) we will have to wait 1-2 months after the patch is released and statistics have stabilized, to even try to figure out the results of this. The nerf won't even change a thing statistically, because terrans will all-in and develop two base timings more. Will it make the game worse because the matchups become more one-dimensional and crappy? yes Will it fuck up terran lategame even more than it currently is? YES TvZ is going to turn into what TvP is today. Cripple your opponent before 20 minutes, or lose. This. Exactley. Late game TvZ is already in Zergs favor, this just tips the ballance even further. More 2 base timings and 1 base All-Ins which as a viewer pisses me off. 1/2 of Protoss games are already that way. Ghost play is some of the most entertaining play in SC2. Now wew're going to see far less of it. Late game is not really in zerg favor (let me explain). Due to the nature of the game If a terran wins early he just wins, if a zerg wins early he often has to do 10-15 mins of mopup so when he finally gets his GG, it may appear to be a lategme victory but was really not. Consider there are 10 games where nothing is really decided til lategame, zerg wins 5 and terran wins 5. (50% W/L) Now consider 10 more games that are decided in the early game terran wins 5 and ends them quickly, zerg also wins 5 and ends 3 quickly, but in 2 the terran uses mules, walls + repairing scv,s, defensive tanks, planetary fortresses, and other tactics to draw out the game even though he is 95% sure to lose it in the end. When zerg finally finishes him off it appears to be a lategame victory, but really isn't. This is the reason why terran might appear to be weaker late and stronger early if looking at the statistics alone.
Next they'll be telling me Mutas really aren't a problem for protoss. It just appears that way.
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Canada11509 Posts
On February 12 2012 07:31 Dalavita wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 07:29 Falling wrote:On February 11 2012 13:34 Ansinjunger wrote:On February 11 2012 12:50 Demnogonis wrote:
Mule change seems reasonable, even though I'd still prefer gold bases just go. Planetary Fortress, Siege Tanks, Mules still helping you to mine them out faster...
Phoenix upgrade really should be in Cybercore but it's a good idea, I really don't like how the answer to Phoenix is making even more Mutalisks.
Snipe change I really didn't see coming, Ghost wasn't some super-effective counter to everything and Sniping was pretty fun. No matter though, if there's no reason to aim for the late game, that's fine by me. BIT BY BIT!
APM, CPM, who cares, I just want the ability to permanently shut down chat, while Zerg crying is the most beautiful sound in the world it's getting really old. I love that they're putting back in spam APM and making a separate CPM, which may be ignored by many, but it could still be a tool people refer to when watching their own replays or something. I didn't quite ascertain whether it's still in Blizzard time; I assume it is as there's no mention one way or the other. Does anyone know about this? Are they going back to Action's Per Blizzard Minute or are they finally fixing Blizzard time to give us actual APM? Wording indicates Blizzard APM, which means you still have to multiply it by 1.38.
Blah. They're never going to fix it then.
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On February 12 2012 07:25 Torra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 07:16 gosuMalicE wrote:On February 12 2012 07:07 mlspmatt wrote:On February 12 2012 06:42 Dalavita wrote:On February 12 2012 06:39 gosuMalicE wrote:On February 12 2012 06:33 SolidMoose wrote:On February 12 2012 05:46 Apolo wrote:I'd like to remind you guys of something. Never, since 2011, has terran been below 51% of win rate aggainst Zerg. They have always have the advantage in the matchup. I'm not sure what people are complaining about. Even if this patch were to tip the scales in the other way, it would only been fair for Zergs, after always going to a match knowing aggainst and equal skill opponent, they have less chances to win than him. LOL two wrongs don't make a right. Making zerg heavily favored doesn't fix anything because of past data. If you think this patch will magically shift the TvZ balance from slightly T favored to a massively Z Favored, then there is something wrong with your head, it will most likely have a minor effect at best and may not even put zerg over 50% (much bigger changes have been shown, in the past, to have relatively minor effects on W/L stats) we will have to wait 1-2 months after the patch is released and statistics have stabilized, to even try to figure out the results of this. The nerf won't even change a thing statistically, because terrans will all-in and develop two base timings more. Will it make the game worse because the matchups become more one-dimensional and crappy? yes Will it fuck up terran lategame even more than it currently is? YES TvZ is going to turn into what TvP is today. Cripple your opponent before 20 minutes, or lose. This. Exactley. Late game TvZ is already in Zergs favor, this just tips the ballance even further. More 2 base timings and 1 base All-Ins which as a viewer pisses me off. 1/2 of Protoss games are already that way. Ghost play is some of the most entertaining play in SC2. Now wew're going to see far less of it. Late game is not really in zerg favor (let me explain). Due to the nature of the game If a terran wins early he just wins, if a zerg wins early he often has to do 10-15 mins of mopup so when he finally gets his GG, it may appear to be a lategme victory but was really not. Consider there are 10 games where nothing is really decided til lategame, zerg wins 5 and terran wins 5. (50% W/L) Now consider 10 more games that are decided in the early game terran wins 5 and ends them quickly, zerg also wins 5 and ends 3 quickly, but in 2 the terran uses mules, walls + repairing scv,s, defensive tanks, planetary fortresses, and other tactics to draw out the game even though he is 95% sure to lose it in the end. When zerg finally finishes him off it appears to be a lategame victory, but really isn't. This is the reason why terran might appear to be weaker late and stronger early if looking at the statistics alone. If u follow the pro scene, u don't need statistic to see that terran is the weakest race late game. The huge difference in win rate by game length is not only explained by what u just stated.
Yeah, blizzard should shit on stats and rather use rainbows and butterflies to determine balance, lol.
also those "lategame stats" are taken from one single MLG and have no statistical relevance to begin with.
i trust in blizzard having at least one mathematician that can create and interprete relevant stats from all the data they collect.
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On February 12 2012 07:25 Torra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 07:16 gosuMalicE wrote:On February 12 2012 07:07 mlspmatt wrote:On February 12 2012 06:42 Dalavita wrote:On February 12 2012 06:39 gosuMalicE wrote:On February 12 2012 06:33 SolidMoose wrote:On February 12 2012 05:46 Apolo wrote:I'd like to remind you guys of something. Never, since 2011, has terran been below 51% of win rate aggainst Zerg. They have always have the advantage in the matchup. I'm not sure what people are complaining about. Even if this patch were to tip the scales in the other way, it would only been fair for Zergs, after always going to a match knowing aggainst and equal skill opponent, they have less chances to win than him. LOL two wrongs don't make a right. Making zerg heavily favored doesn't fix anything because of past data. If you think this patch will magically shift the TvZ balance from slightly T favored to a massively Z Favored, then there is something wrong with your head, it will most likely have a minor effect at best and may not even put zerg over 50% (much bigger changes have been shown, in the past, to have relatively minor effects on W/L stats) we will have to wait 1-2 months after the patch is released and statistics have stabilized, to even try to figure out the results of this. The nerf won't even change a thing statistically, because terrans will all-in and develop two base timings more. Will it make the game worse because the matchups become more one-dimensional and crappy? yes Will it fuck up terran lategame even more than it currently is? YES TvZ is going to turn into what TvP is today. Cripple your opponent before 20 minutes, or lose. This. Exactley. Late game TvZ is already in Zergs favor, this just tips the ballance even further. More 2 base timings and 1 base All-Ins which as a viewer pisses me off. 1/2 of Protoss games are already that way. Ghost play is some of the most entertaining play in SC2. Now wew're going to see far less of it. Late game is not really in zerg favor (let me explain). Due to the nature of the game If a terran wins early he just wins, if a zerg wins early he often has to do 10-15 mins of mopup so when he finally gets his GG, it may appear to be a lategme victory but was really not. Consider there are 10 games where nothing is really decided til lategame, zerg wins 5 and terran wins 5. (50% W/L) Now consider 10 more games that are decided in the early game terran wins 5 and ends them quickly, zerg also wins 5 and ends 3 quickly, but in 2 the terran uses mules, walls + repairing scv,s, defensive tanks, planetary fortresses, and other tactics to draw out the game even though he is 95% sure to lose it in the end. When zerg finally finishes him off it appears to be a lategame victory, but really isn't. This is the reason why terran might appear to be weaker late and stronger early if looking at the statistics alone. If u follow the pro scene, u don't need statistic to see that terran is the weakest race late game. The huge difference in win rate by game length is not only explained by what u just stated.
It actually is explained quite well by what I said, and I follow the pro scene quite religiously. It is getting really annoying however thet 90% of SC2 balance whine comes from Terran players, when statisticly and observably they are the most powerful race right now. Anyone Who watches the pro scene, without a Terran bias, can see that terran can win quite well in the lategame if they don't lose a major battle in the early-midgame.
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you never know how its going to work. people have constnatly nerfed terran. but terran have always risen to the top again because terran had so much untapped potential. so just cause you are buffing zerg doesn't mean terran can't adjust. maybe more raven usage.
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On February 12 2012 07:38 Phanekim wrote:
you never know how its going to work. people have constnatly nerfed terran. but terran have always risen to the top again because terran had so much untapped potential. so just cause you are buffing zerg doesn't mean terran can't adjust. maybe more raven usage.
Very good point, zerg and protoss, use (and often) every unit at their disposal, simply because they have to. Tell a Terran to use a raven and they just laugh because their race is so well designed they have 3 units to a role and only need to use the most powerful one until it gets nerfed.
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On February 12 2012 07:43 gosuMalicE wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 07:38 Phanekim wrote:
you never know how its going to work. people have constnatly nerfed terran. but terran have always risen to the top again because terran had so much untapped potential. so just cause you are buffing zerg doesn't mean terran can't adjust. maybe more raven usage. Very good point, zerg and protoss, use (and often) every unit at their disposal, simply because they have to. Tell a Terran to use a raven and they just laugh because their race is so well designed they have 3 units to a role and only need to use the most powerful one until it gets nerfed.
Zergs don't use nydus worms enough. Lets nerf zergs some until they start using them.
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For the first time I feel I agree with every proposed change in a patch...
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On February 12 2012 07:25 R!! wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 07:16 gosuMalicE wrote:On February 12 2012 07:07 mlspmatt wrote:On February 12 2012 06:42 Dalavita wrote:On February 12 2012 06:39 gosuMalicE wrote:On February 12 2012 06:33 SolidMoose wrote:On February 12 2012 05:46 Apolo wrote:I'd like to remind you guys of something. Never, since 2011, has terran been below 51% of win rate aggainst Zerg. They have always have the advantage in the matchup. I'm not sure what people are complaining about. Even if this patch were to tip the scales in the other way, it would only been fair for Zergs, after always going to a match knowing aggainst and equal skill opponent, they have less chances to win than him. LOL two wrongs don't make a right. Making zerg heavily favored doesn't fix anything because of past data. If you think this patch will magically shift the TvZ balance from slightly T favored to a massively Z Favored, then there is something wrong with your head, it will most likely have a minor effect at best and may not even put zerg over 50% (much bigger changes have been shown, in the past, to have relatively minor effects on W/L stats) we will have to wait 1-2 months after the patch is released and statistics have stabilized, to even try to figure out the results of this. The nerf won't even change a thing statistically, because terrans will all-in and develop two base timings more. Will it make the game worse because the matchups become more one-dimensional and crappy? yes Will it fuck up terran lategame even more than it currently is? YES TvZ is going to turn into what TvP is today. Cripple your opponent before 20 minutes, or lose. This. Exactley. Late game TvZ is already in Zergs favor, this just tips the ballance even further. More 2 base timings and 1 base All-Ins which as a viewer pisses me off. 1/2 of Protoss games are already that way. Ghost play is some of the most entertaining play in SC2. Now wew're going to see far less of it. Late game is not really in zerg favor (let me explain). Due to the nature of the game If a terran wins early he just wins, if a zerg wins early he often has to do 10-15 mins of mopup so when he finally gets his GG, it may appear to be a lategme victory but was really not. Consider there are 10 games where nothing is really decided til lategame, zerg wins 5 and terran wins 5. (50% W/L) Now consider 10 more games that are decided in the early game terran wins 5 and ends them quickly, zerg also wins 5 and ends 3 quickly, but in 2 the terran uses mules, walls + repairing scv,s, defensive tanks, planetary fortresses, and other tactics to draw out the game even though he is 95% sure to lose it in the end. When zerg finally finishes him off it appears to be a lategame victory, but really isn't. This is the reason why terran might appear to be weaker late and stronger early if looking at the statistics alone. Yea, zerg's 65% win ratio in the late game happens because they always get to the late game far ahead, makes sense, also, to add to that, I think terran players can't handle macroing and that's why they lose so much in the late game, zerg players are just better, they are also smarter. ::wink:
His point is that zerg doesn't really have anything with which to safely finish a game until hive. It is possible to end games with ling/bane/muta, but quite risky. Terran is not so dependent on a 20 minute heavy T3 army composition as a coup de grace, so can close games out more quickly. It is at least a reasonable point deserving of more than sarcastic, thoughtless dismissal.
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On February 12 2012 07:43 gosuMalicE wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 07:38 Phanekim wrote:
you never know how its going to work. people have constnatly nerfed terran. but terran have always risen to the top again because terran had so much untapped potential. so just cause you are buffing zerg doesn't mean terran can't adjust. maybe more raven usage. Very good point, zerg and protoss, use (and often) every unit at their disposal, simply because they have to. Tell a Terran to use a raven and they just laugh because their race is so well designed they have 3 units to a role and only need to use the most powerful one until it gets nerfed.
This is LOL funny. Two Zergs (most lilkely) having a conversation about how good terran late game would be if they'd only use Ravens.
I laughed so hard reading this.
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EPT
