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Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay.
Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions. |
On February 12 2012 05:45 Recognizable wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 05:25 Blasterion wrote:On February 12 2012 05:23 riff wrote:
It doesn't matter how low Terran representation goes in the lower leagues as long as it's balanced in the top Korean leagues. These nerfs are for the best, not for the baddies. Any bets on which lower league (Bronze-GM on any server) will hit sub-20% Terran representation next season? Platinum to Diamond maybe. Bronze- Gold are too terrible to be affected, Master-Grandmaster will be able to adapt well enough Platinum to Diamond players are stubborn and like to stick to their comfort zones then give up and switch races. I'm Master-Grandmaster and am seriously thinking about switching races ^^ Maybe I'm just going to take a different approach to the game and just all in every game. idk.
Same here and have developed a top 3 master Protoss offracing. Didn't take me very long to do, but the only fun MU to me as Protoss is PvZ (and probably because that's currently the most challenging MU)
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On February 12 2012 05:51 Kharnage wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 05:46 Apolo wrote:I'd like to remind you guys of something. Never, since 2011, has terran been below 51% of win rate aggainst Zerg. They have always have the advantage in the matchup. I'm not sure what people are complaining about. Even if this patch were to tip the scales in the other way, it would only been fair for Zergs, after always going to a match knowing aggainst and equal skill opponent, they have less chances to win than him. This ^ See how it goes in PTR
51% seems pretty balanced for the highest level , stop delluding yourselves, this does not apply for the lower leagues, zerg is most definetely favored between platinum to high masters , terran is the most micro intensive race by far and most of the koreans chose it for this exact reason , coupled with the fact that their heroes are mostly terran players (flash, nada, boxer, iloveoov).
Less chances to win against equal skill?Sweetie, please.
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On February 12 2012 05:55 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 05:46 Apolo wrote:I'd like to remind you guys of something. Never, since 2011, has terran been below 51% of win rate aggainst Zerg. They have always have the advantage in the matchup. I'm not sure what people are complaining about. Even if this patch were to tip the scales in the other way, it would only been fair for Zergs, after always going to a match knowing aggainst and equal skill opponent, they have less chances to win than him. That's a horrible argument for balance. So just because the game was broken one way in the past it justifies swinging it the other way round? Also, numbers have been shown in the middle of the thread. Terran win rate after 20 minutes is already at 35%. Nerf the early game, not the late game ffs.
That not what he is saying, he is saying that since Terran was OBVIOULY imbalanced in the matchup (>50% winrate forever), buffing zerg against terran or nerfing terran against zerg is absolutely needed. And in the off chance that the patch went slightly to far and makes, say the zerg have a 51% winrate over T for a month or two, that is not necessarily bad for balance because it means that they found the tipping point and can make minute adjustment accordingly. And you are completely invalidating any argument that you chose to make because you are obviously biased in your claim that this WILL swing the margin the other way even though we have no way of knowing that yet (terrans have made that claim after every single patch and it has yet to come to fruition)
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On February 12 2012 05:46 Apolo wrote:I'd like to remind you guys of something. Never, since 2011, has terran been below 51% of win rate aggainst Zerg. They have always have the advantage in the matchup. I'm not sure what people are complaining about. Even if this patch were to tip the scales in the other way, it would only been fair for Zergs, after always going to a match knowing aggainst and equal skill opponent, they have less chances to win than him.
It's never been below because the players are so *** good. If you look at zerg's options, they can easily harass the Terran using Zergling drops if they wanted to. It takes 4 supply for an 8 ling drop that does almost as much DPS as a Marine drop.
It also takes 4 supply for a pair of infestors to spam IT's all over a Terran's PF'd base, though the gas cost is much larger.
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On February 12 2012 05:57 Recognizable wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 05:49 gosuMalicE wrote:On February 12 2012 05:29 zmansman17 wrote:On February 12 2012 05:25 Blasterion wrote:On February 12 2012 05:23 riff wrote:
It doesn't matter how low Terran representation goes in the lower leagues as long as it's balanced in the top Korean leagues. These nerfs are for the best, not for the baddies. Any bets on which lower league (Bronze-GM on any server) will hit sub-20% Terran representation next season? Platinum to Diamond maybe. Bronze- Gold are too terrible to be affected, Master-Grandmaster will be able to adapt well enough Platinum to Diamond players are stubborn and like to stick to their comfort zones then give up and switch races. This certainly will affect all masters players and even GM players on the NA server. I rely on ghosts in late game TvP and TvZ for snipes on zealots in the first MU and snipes on ultras, broodlords in the second MU. I'm sure how these changes are going to drastically reduce my ability to win in these late game settings. Sure, I may adapt and go for more all-in mid game timings, but I can't see how this won't reach top masters players (rank 2 master) or GM players. Well if that's the case you are more likely a plat-diamond skilled terran with an artificially inflated ladder ranking due to the current overpowered ghosts and gold base mule drops. Don't worry you ladder ranking will adjust to your true skill level after this patch comes out. Ghosts aren't overpowered, if you truly think they are you have never played a high level TvZ in your life. Lategame TvZ will be almost impossible, it was already extremely hard. My GM zerg practice partners are saying, they will actually never lose with infestor ling into ultra-->BL anymore. Every master player will be extremely effected. Ghosts control is one of the hardest micro in the game, terran is rediculous hard in both TvZ en TvP lategame, you can look at how terran is the least played race in all the Master leagues. The only reason ghosts are getting nerfed is because the best player in the game is making them look broken, even though he would make look anything broken with any race. Show nested quote +Execpt the entire point of the ghost in sc2 is to be the Terran anti-caster unit, this patch will being them in line with their concept, they were NEVER intended to counter zealots/broodlords/ultralisks. And these notes should make that obvious.
They were actually designed to counter broodlords. Look at their unit description. The also don't even counter broodlords, they soft counter, and they aren't cost efficient vs ultras. Going ghosts in TvZ means giving up all means of aggresion, you can not atack. The only way to win is by nuking, dropping and when you almost starved the zerg, trade cost efficiently. If you fail to starve the zerg. He will just a-move his broods and ultras and remax on roach ling bling and you will die because all of your tanks just got killed. TvZ lategame is retarded, so is TvP lategame. I'm a terran that always played for the lategame, but after this patch I won't be doing that anymore against Zerg.
lololol I also thought, when I saw the patch notes, that this is a direct nerf to IM.Mvp. Tons of terrans go ghosts, but really none as effectively as him. They shouldn't be nerfed just cause the best player in the world is really good =/
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Canada13410 Posts
On February 12 2012 05:58 Elyvilon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 05:55 gosuMalicE wrote:On February 12 2012 05:52 Gfire wrote:
Maybe Snipe should 50 damage to ground units and 25 to air units. That would make sense, pointing a sniper rifle up in the air and shooting something out of the sky would be pretty difficult, you would probably be less accurate. This would make ghosts counter ultras more and vikings counter brood lords more, which might be good. Execpt the entire point of the ghost in sc2 is to be the Terran anti-caster unit, this patch will being them in line with their concept, they were NEVER intended to counter zealots/broodlords/ultralisks. And these notes should make that obvious. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/game/unit/brood-lord"The biggest strength of Brood Lords is their ability to create massive numbers of Broodlings. Take Brood Lords out instantly using ghosts and their snipe ability to prevent this." From the official blizzard website. Tell me more about how ghosts were never intended to counter broodlords.
On the same page, it talks about the broodlords usage vs terran, zerg and protoss
Every image associated with these individual matchups are all vs terran pictures so take that with a grain of salt.
And you can still snipe them you just can't instagib a whole zerg army with a pack of ghosts
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On February 12 2012 05:13 R!! wrote:
you can't even micro broods, and you don't need to, all you gotta do is keep your mouth open, let the drool roll whilst eargerly waiting to fungal the poor vikings trying desperately to kite before everything disappears.
LOL seriously... wow
I guess that's my problem with this patch, more micro needed from Terrans now, which just feels unfair (Protoss 1a ball of death wants me dead).
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On February 12 2012 05:58 Elyvilon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 05:55 gosuMalicE wrote:On February 12 2012 05:52 Gfire wrote:
Maybe Snipe should 50 damage to ground units and 25 to air units. That would make sense, pointing a sniper rifle up in the air and shooting something out of the sky would be pretty difficult, you would probably be less accurate. This would make ghosts counter ultras more and vikings counter brood lords more, which might be good. Execpt the entire point of the ghost in sc2 is to be the Terran anti-caster unit, this patch will being them in line with their concept, they were NEVER intended to counter zealots/broodlords/ultralisks. And these notes should make that obvious. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/game/unit/brood-lord"The biggest strength of Brood Lords is their ability to create massive numbers of Broodlings. Take Brood Lords out instantly using ghosts and their snipe ability to prevent this." From the official blizzard website. Tell me more about how ghosts were never intended to counter broodlords.
LOL are you honestly bringing up what the SC2 website says unit counter are? rofl lets see... http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/game/unit/ultralisk damn son better start using those ultra to counter maruder then see how that works out.
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On February 12 2012 05:46 Apolo wrote:I'd like to remind you guys of something. Never, since 2011, has terran been below 51% of win rate aggainst Zerg. They have always have the advantage in the matchup. I'm not sure what people are complaining about. Even if this patch were to tip the scales in the other way, it would only been fair for Zergs, after always going to a match knowing aggainst and equal skill opponent, they have less chances to win than him.
ehm....
Even a 50 win rate does not equal to balance.
"Fairness" has nothing to do with balance decisions.
Do you realize that if this change goes trough a snipe from a ghost wont be able to kill a zerling, nor a marine, nor a worker?
Lots of T players have stated how a change of this caliber will not only "tip the scales in the other way" but will end up in a scenario similar to what TvP is like nowadays.
You must defeat the Z player before X tech is out or you will probably get rolled.
Mass Ghost with snipe is the Terran answer to our race incapacity to match Zergs capability to switch techs between broodlords and ultralisk.
Vikings dont deal well against broodlords with corrupters/mutas and fungal on the field, lots of times ive seen pro players get their vikings melted by chain fungals, making them sitting ducks to any kind of anti air, as broodlords spam waves of units that deny any kind of marine support to save the rooted vikings.
Marauders are only good against roaches and ultralisks, but even so, to deal with ultras you need a healthy amount of them.
Numbers you wont have unless you have built a considerable amount of techlabs for your barracks, tech labs wich lower in a considerable way the amount of marines you can pump and are needed to defend against mutas and zerlings.
If there was some sort of techreactor addon similar to the one on the campaign, then terran wouldnt have such a hard time dealing with this army comp and tech switch.
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On February 12 2012 06:01 zmansman17 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 05:45 Recognizable wrote:On February 12 2012 05:25 Blasterion wrote:On February 12 2012 05:23 riff wrote:
It doesn't matter how low Terran representation goes in the lower leagues as long as it's balanced in the top Korean leagues. These nerfs are for the best, not for the baddies. Any bets on which lower league (Bronze-GM on any server) will hit sub-20% Terran representation next season? Platinum to Diamond maybe. Bronze- Gold are too terrible to be affected, Master-Grandmaster will be able to adapt well enough Platinum to Diamond players are stubborn and like to stick to their comfort zones then give up and switch races. I'm Master-Grandmaster and am seriously thinking about switching races ^^ Maybe I'm just going to take a different approach to the game and just all in every game. idk. Same here and have developed a top 3 master Protoss offracing. Didn't take me very long to do, but the only fun MU to me as Protoss is PvZ (and probably because that's currently the most challenging MU)
The problem is that I wouldn't be able to play protoss really. Cba to just sit on 3 bases max and a-move really =..=
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On February 12 2012 06:04 gosuMalicE wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 05:58 Elyvilon wrote:On February 12 2012 05:55 gosuMalicE wrote:On February 12 2012 05:52 Gfire wrote:
Maybe Snipe should 50 damage to ground units and 25 to air units. That would make sense, pointing a sniper rifle up in the air and shooting something out of the sky would be pretty difficult, you would probably be less accurate. This would make ghosts counter ultras more and vikings counter brood lords more, which might be good. Execpt the entire point of the ghost in sc2 is to be the Terran anti-caster unit, this patch will being them in line with their concept, they were NEVER intended to counter zealots/broodlords/ultralisks. And these notes should make that obvious. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/game/unit/brood-lord"The biggest strength of Brood Lords is their ability to create massive numbers of Broodlings. Take Brood Lords out instantly using ghosts and their snipe ability to prevent this." From the official blizzard website. Tell me more about how ghosts were never intended to counter broodlords. LOL are you honestly bringing up what the SC2 website says unit counter are? rofl lets see... http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/game/unit/ultralisk damn son better start using those ultra to counter maruder then see how that works out.
Errr... dude it says clearly that Marauders counter Ultras.
Anti-armored ground units like Marauders can also crack through Ultralisks’ reinforced carapaces as long as they can keep the Ultralisk at range by kiting it with Stimpack’s movement speed increase.
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On February 12 2012 06:06 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 06:04 gosuMalicE wrote:On February 12 2012 05:58 Elyvilon wrote:On February 12 2012 05:55 gosuMalicE wrote:On February 12 2012 05:52 Gfire wrote:
Maybe Snipe should 50 damage to ground units and 25 to air units. That would make sense, pointing a sniper rifle up in the air and shooting something out of the sky would be pretty difficult, you would probably be less accurate. This would make ghosts counter ultras more and vikings counter brood lords more, which might be good. Execpt the entire point of the ghost in sc2 is to be the Terran anti-caster unit, this patch will being them in line with their concept, they were NEVER intended to counter zealots/broodlords/ultralisks. And these notes should make that obvious. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/game/unit/brood-lord"The biggest strength of Brood Lords is their ability to create massive numbers of Broodlings. Take Brood Lords out instantly using ghosts and their snipe ability to prevent this." From the official blizzard website. Tell me more about how ghosts were never intended to counter broodlords. LOL are you honestly bringing up what the SC2 website says unit counter are? rofl lets see... http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/game/unit/ultralisk damn son better start using those ultra to counter maruder then see how that works out. Errr... dude it says clearly that Marauders counter Ultras. Show nested quote +Anti-armored ground units like Marauders can also crack through Ultralisks’ reinforced carapaces as long as they can keep the Ultralisk at range by kiting it with Stimpack’s movement speed increase.
And look at the graphics that say strong against Stalker/roach/marauder, weak against muta/banshee/void. You really going to use a page that contradicts itself as an accurate source?
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United States13143 Posts
On February 12 2012 06:04 gosuMalicE wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 05:58 Elyvilon wrote:On February 12 2012 05:55 gosuMalicE wrote:On February 12 2012 05:52 Gfire wrote:
Maybe Snipe should 50 damage to ground units and 25 to air units. That would make sense, pointing a sniper rifle up in the air and shooting something out of the sky would be pretty difficult, you would probably be less accurate. This would make ghosts counter ultras more and vikings counter brood lords more, which might be good. Execpt the entire point of the ghost in sc2 is to be the Terran anti-caster unit, this patch will being them in line with their concept, they were NEVER intended to counter zealots/broodlords/ultralisks. And these notes should make that obvious. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/game/unit/brood-lord"The biggest strength of Brood Lords is their ability to create massive numbers of Broodlings. Take Brood Lords out instantly using ghosts and their snipe ability to prevent this." From the official blizzard website. Tell me more about how ghosts were never intended to counter broodlords. LOL are you honestly bringing up what the SC2 website says unit counter are? rofl lets see... http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/game/unit/ultralisk damn son better start using those ultra to counter maruder then see how that works out.
You claimed that ghosts were never intended to counter broodlords. I showed you a quote showing that ghosts were, in fact, intended to counter broodlords. You weren't claiming that they weren't able to, you were claiming that they were never supposed to be able to. I would say that quote shows, in fact, they were supposed to at some point.
It's okay though, this should balance out terran ladder dominance and tournament dominance. Why, about 26-27% of people in gold or above are terran! Utterly ridiculous, should be more like 20. And the last foreign terran to win a big tournament was...Thorzain, in TSL3! It's okay though, Korean terrans still dominate, who cares about the scrubs anyway.
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On February 12 2012 06:09 Elyvilon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 06:04 gosuMalicE wrote:On February 12 2012 05:58 Elyvilon wrote:On February 12 2012 05:55 gosuMalicE wrote:On February 12 2012 05:52 Gfire wrote:
Maybe Snipe should 50 damage to ground units and 25 to air units. That would make sense, pointing a sniper rifle up in the air and shooting something out of the sky would be pretty difficult, you would probably be less accurate. This would make ghosts counter ultras more and vikings counter brood lords more, which might be good. Execpt the entire point of the ghost in sc2 is to be the Terran anti-caster unit, this patch will being them in line with their concept, they were NEVER intended to counter zealots/broodlords/ultralisks. And these notes should make that obvious. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/game/unit/brood-lord"The biggest strength of Brood Lords is their ability to create massive numbers of Broodlings. Take Brood Lords out instantly using ghosts and their snipe ability to prevent this." From the official blizzard website. Tell me more about how ghosts were never intended to counter broodlords. LOL are you honestly bringing up what the SC2 website says unit counter are? rofl lets see... http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/game/unit/ultralisk damn son better start using those ultra to counter maruder then see how that works out. You claimed that ghosts were never intended to counter broodlords. I showed you a quote showing that ghosts were, in fact, intended to counter broodlords. You weren't claiming that they weren't able to, you were claiming that they were never supposed to be able to. I would say that quote shows, in fact, they were supposed to at some point. It's okay though, this should balance out terran ladder dominance and tournament dominance. Why, about 26-27% of people in gold or above are terran! Utterly ridiculous, should be more like 20. And the last foreign terran to win a big tournament was...Thorzain, in TSL3! It's okay though, Korean terrans still dominate, who cares about the scrubs anyway.
Ladder stats are irrelevant for balance, and those unit counter pages were made in beta and nonsensical and irrelevant to what the units are intended to counter in the current iteration of the game, or are you telling me to start building ultras against maruders (or that that was EVER a good idea)?
Also making arbitrary distinctions between foreigner and korean results is stupid, Just look at the highest level play and judge from there, regardless of nationality (You immense bias is showing)
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United States13143 Posts
On February 12 2012 06:12 gosuMalicE wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 06:09 Elyvilon wrote:On February 12 2012 06:04 gosuMalicE wrote:On February 12 2012 05:58 Elyvilon wrote:On February 12 2012 05:55 gosuMalicE wrote:On February 12 2012 05:52 Gfire wrote:
Maybe Snipe should 50 damage to ground units and 25 to air units. That would make sense, pointing a sniper rifle up in the air and shooting something out of the sky would be pretty difficult, you would probably be less accurate. This would make ghosts counter ultras more and vikings counter brood lords more, which might be good. Execpt the entire point of the ghost in sc2 is to be the Terran anti-caster unit, this patch will being them in line with their concept, they were NEVER intended to counter zealots/broodlords/ultralisks. And these notes should make that obvious. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/game/unit/brood-lord"The biggest strength of Brood Lords is their ability to create massive numbers of Broodlings. Take Brood Lords out instantly using ghosts and their snipe ability to prevent this." From the official blizzard website. Tell me more about how ghosts were never intended to counter broodlords. LOL are you honestly bringing up what the SC2 website says unit counter are? rofl lets see... http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/game/unit/ultralisk damn son better start using those ultra to counter maruder then see how that works out. You claimed that ghosts were never intended to counter broodlords. I showed you a quote showing that ghosts were, in fact, intended to counter broodlords. You weren't claiming that they weren't able to, you were claiming that they were never supposed to be able to. I would say that quote shows, in fact, they were supposed to at some point. It's okay though, this should balance out terran ladder dominance and tournament dominance. Why, about 26-27% of people in gold or above are terran! Utterly ridiculous, should be more like 20. And the last foreign terran to win a big tournament was...Thorzain, in TSL3! It's okay though, Korean terrans still dominate, who cares about the scrubs anyway. Ladder stats are irrelevant for balance, and those unit counter pages were made in beta and nonsensical and irrelevant to what the units are intended to counter in the current iteration of the game, or are you telling me to start building ultras against maruders (or that that was EVER a good idea)?
You claimed they were never intended to counter broodlords. Clearly, they were intended to at some point. If I said ultralisks were never intended to counter marauders, I would be incorrect too.
Also, it's nice to know that the only stats that matter are Korean Code S stats. Maybe I should try switching to protoss again, boring as it was last time.
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Ladder stats are irrelevant for balance, and those unit counter pages were made in beta and nonsensical and irrelevant to what the units are intended to counter in the current iteration of the game, or are you telling me to start building ultras against maruders (or that that was EVER a good idea)?
You claimed they were never intended to counter broodlords. Clearly, they were intended to at some point. If I said ultralisks were never intended to counter marauders, I would be incorrect too.
Also, it's nice to know that the only stats that matter are Korean Code S stats. Maybe I should try switching to protoss again, boring as it was last time.
Ghosts were certainly added at one time to counter Broolords, and people wondered why they weren't used at first. However, when Broodlord/Infestor came into full force, Terrans realized they Had to use the ghost and they did. I can't imagine going back. I have a hard enough time scraping a 25% win rate in late TvZ
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On February 12 2012 06:09 Elyvilon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 06:04 gosuMalicE wrote:On February 12 2012 05:58 Elyvilon wrote:On February 12 2012 05:55 gosuMalicE wrote:On February 12 2012 05:52 Gfire wrote:
Maybe Snipe should 50 damage to ground units and 25 to air units. That would make sense, pointing a sniper rifle up in the air and shooting something out of the sky would be pretty difficult, you would probably be less accurate. This would make ghosts counter ultras more and vikings counter brood lords more, which might be good. Execpt the entire point of the ghost in sc2 is to be the Terran anti-caster unit, this patch will being them in line with their concept, they were NEVER intended to counter zealots/broodlords/ultralisks. And these notes should make that obvious. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/game/unit/brood-lord"The biggest strength of Brood Lords is their ability to create massive numbers of Broodlings. Take Brood Lords out instantly using ghosts and their snipe ability to prevent this." From the official blizzard website. Tell me more about how ghosts were never intended to counter broodlords. LOL are you honestly bringing up what the SC2 website says unit counter are? rofl lets see... http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/game/unit/ultralisk damn son better start using those ultra to counter maruder then see how that works out. You claimed that ghosts were never intended to counter broodlords. I showed you a quote showing that ghosts were, in fact, intended to counter broodlords. You weren't claiming that they weren't able to, you were claiming that they were never supposed to be able to. I would say that quote shows, in fact, they were supposed to at some point. It's okay though, this should balance out terran ladder dominance and tournament dominance. Why, about 26-27% of people in gold or above are terran! Utterly ridiculous, should be more like 20. And the last foreign terran to win a big tournament was...Thorzain, in TSL3! It's okay though, Korean terrans still dominate, who cares about the scrubs anyway.
100% agree. Win rate is very skewed by the presence of gosu Koreans.
Look at ladder and non-Korean tournaments, and it's an entirely different "balance". Great job on listening to mindless QQ(feedback) of the community Blizzard.
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On February 12 2012 05:39 Remi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2012 04:53 duct_TAPE wrote:It's OK for zerg to be a little cost ineffective as long as they maintain economic lead enough to overcome that, thats exclusively zerg concept of "swarming" opponents, so, unless you're arguing that it is viable strategy for terran, we could agree that terran to win games against zerg have to be usually cost effective against zerg opponent, and I for one don't see cost effective composition against bl/infestor/corruptor not to say possibly ultra switch in late macro game and given production lag terrans inherently have, they generally need universal army which, to some extend, could fight against everything zerg throw at them to be effective. I agree with your point of Terran having to be a bit more cost effective than zerg just because of the nature of the two races, that's the reason I made my point. But as wierd as it sounds, it dosn't make sense to ever bring in the 'units lost' tab in a balance discussion cause the races are functioning in a different way. I don't think you understood me right, I made the argument that you can't bring in cost efficiency in the game like Duderino did in his post, I'm not talking about the specific balance of the game itself. I see no reason not to consider unit costs in this discussion, especially after we agreed upon that terran need for been cost effective against zerg. Counter unit by definition is a unit that is able to take out its target in a cost effective manner, soft counter=slightly more cost effective, hard counter= largely cost effective. We cannot talk about units and counter units without counting their costs, otherwise one could say that banelings are counter to spreader thors, with is absurd, so here we have to keep units cost in mind and, following this logic, ghosts won't be a counter to broodlords or ultralisks if this patch goes through unchanged. In one thing I think we can both agree, that only time will show have exactly this change will affect zvt, but ,something tells me, terrans have one hell of a challenge before them.
The problem I have with this reasoning is we agreed that the way zerg is played most of the time is less cost efficient, and because of that they have to be at least a base up on their opponents so they can afford to be that bit less cost efficient.
In this manner you have to consider that zerg is going to have a lead in economy and therefore have a bigger pool of money to throw, meaning unit x being lost in a 'unit lost' tab is not backed up by the same economy and in reality will be less % lost money for the zerg. This also means that 'units lost' tab is going to be very misleading and not a good tool to use, cause it dosn't include how the races are normally played/economy and playstyles. I hope you understand what I mean here, my personal opinion of course.
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Anti-armored ground units like Marauders can also crack through Ultralisks’ reinforced carapaces as long as they can keep the Ultralisk at range by kiting it with Stimpack’s movement speed increase.
Ok, but it's never a simple Marauder v Ultra fight where theoretically one counters the other.
Two options completely change this and Neuter the effectiveness of the Marauder.
Option 1) Ultras + Infestors that fungal growth the Bio. Ultra comes in with AoE and there goes your bio
Options 2) Ultras + Ling run bys, which entrap the bio from the back as Banes, Ultras roll in.
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On February 12 2012 05:46 Apolo wrote:I'd like to remind you guys of something. Never, since 2011, has terran been below 51% of win rate aggainst Zerg. They have always have the advantage in the matchup. I'm not sure what people are complaining about. Even if this patch were to tip the scales in the other way, it would only been fair for Zergs, after always going to a match knowing aggainst and equal skill opponent, they have less chances to win than him.
LOL two wrongs don't make a right. Making zerg heavily favored doesn't fix anything because of past data.
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EPT
