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Patch 1.4.3 - Preview Blog - Page 148

Forum Index > SC2 General
4449 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 146 147 148 149 150 223 Next
Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay.

Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions.
warblob004
Profile Joined January 2011
United States198 Posts
February 11 2012 20:01 GMT
#2941
Great changes... but phoenix's that have even more range and move speed? :O
"I have not failed; I've simply found 10,000 ways it won't work." ~Thomas Edison
Scrubwave
Profile Joined July 2010
Poland1786 Posts
February 11 2012 20:05 GMT
#2942
--- Nuked ---
shizna
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom803 Posts
February 11 2012 20:05 GMT
#2943
there actually aren't as many terran tears as i would have expected...

perhaps all of the decent terran players saved their energy to write emails to blizzard?
Elyvilon
Profile Joined August 2008
United States13143 Posts
February 11 2012 20:08 GMT
#2944
On February 12 2012 05:05 shizna wrote:
there actually aren't as many terran tears as i would have expected...

perhaps all of the decent terran players saved their energy to write emails to blizzard?

I think it's more that there aren't that many terrans.

I miss TvT
Liquipedia
roymarthyup
Profile Joined April 2010
1442 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-12 21:54:42
February 11 2012 20:08 GMT
#2945
at first i thought the snipe change was bad but i guess in the scheme of things it makes sense because ghosts have an autoattack while infestors do not.
IMoperator
Profile Joined October 2011
4476 Posts
February 11 2012 20:09 GMT
#2946
On February 12 2012 05:08 Elyvilon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2012 05:05 shizna wrote:
there actually aren't as many terran tears as i would have expected...

perhaps all of the decent terran players saved their energy to write emails to blizzard?

I think it's more that there aren't that many terrans.

I miss TvT

Also, terrans are used to getting nerfed anyway.
HighLach
Profile Joined December 2011
United States132 Posts
February 11 2012 20:10 GMT
#2947
I think all these changes are good. The gold bases should probably have just been removed. I just prefer the regular mineral patches anyways because there's 3000 more minerals.

The snipe change was necessary. It was unfair that terran could have tons of ghosts and kill all the zerg lategame units: Infestors, Broodlords, Corruptors, Ultralisks. People will probably just have to micro their vikings better against zerg. Marauders deal with ultralisks decently already(I hope they fix the ultralisk kiting bug too). Either unit might even get a buff in the future. The versatility complaint is naive, because every other race has to make changes to their army to survive a tech switch.

The phoenix change sounds reasonable. I'm not so excited for heart of the swarm.
R!!
Profile Joined November 2011
Brazil938 Posts
February 11 2012 20:13 GMT
#2948
On February 12 2012 05:05 shizna wrote:
there actually aren't as many terran tears as i would have expected...

perhaps all of the decent terran players saved their energy to write emails to blizzard?

Everyone has switched already :O.
But seriously, it's just hillarious seeing people trying to compare the difficulty of microing terran in the late game with either protoss or more importantly zerg (especially air), you can't even micro broods, and you don't need to, all you gotta do is keep your mouth open, let the drool roll whilst eargerly waiting to fungal the poor vikings trying desperately to kite before everything disappears.I wonder how much more the T representation will plummet in the lower leagues after those nerfs.
I like the part where sense is considered a common, settled thing.
Raygun
Profile Joined August 2010
348 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-11 20:17:09
February 11 2012 20:15 GMT
#2949
I don't know why Ghosts need a Snipe nerf for Banelings and Zealots. The collateral damage from this is unwarrented. This nerf just seems sloppy and not well thought out. It's not like Terran late game was too strong against Zerg as a whole. Why not add something for Terran to help in the late game?

I guess this is all in the name of Esports. Ladder Terran is already low and it seems to get lower every patch. Korean Terrans are still going strong in tournaments though, I guess that's all that matters.
blinkingangels
Profile Joined June 2011
105 Posts
February 11 2012 20:17 GMT
#2950
On February 12 2012 04:59 IMoperator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2012 04:55 ohampatu wrote:
On February 12 2012 04:46 IMoperator wrote:
On February 12 2012 04:35 Qxcsgayestfan wrote:
On February 12 2012 04:23 Jarree wrote:
Well Terran is quickly disappearing from ladder. If you check sc2ranks.com T is by far the least played race above silver (at least in EU). Platinum and diamond have only ~27% T (excluding random), masters ~29%. I'm sure the top100 T players in
the world will find new all-ins and timings to keep their winrate up. Every one else which is like a million players is fucked up.

edit: typo



As if Terran wasn't already rare enough on the ladder

I'm a high diamond Terran. At the very highest Korean level, who knows? Maybe Terran is still the strongest race.

Did Blizzard even consider that, with the launch race being Terran, the micro race being Terran, that maybe the best Koreans chose Terran.

I think a very small group of Koreans have distorted blizzards view of where the race is at.

Well, it's getting really frustrating because blizzard has to patch it for the highest players but they're the ones who figure all this stuff out and then blizz nerfs it. It's happened time and time again and the lower level terrans are punished for it.



I play all 3 races. I play vs multiple friends who also play all 3 races. I main protoss, and i can say that when im playing terran and my friend is toss i still win. Getting a good concave, having good macro will allow you to win. I get so tired of watching low level players (read: pretty much all of us in this thread) complaining about snipe/terran in general, when: 1. They never fucking use snipe because they are bad (just like me). 2. Terran beats Toss when both players play equally. The mu's are so close to being even that unless you are the top 1 percent, the game is balanced.

loool. Terran doesn't beat toss when both play equally. Terran has to play better than the toss in the late game to deal with the massive amounts of aoe.


This is true.. as with TvZ and TvP, after 20 min the game becomes an uphill battle for Terran. Before then the better player will win, but afterwards it takes much more skill for Terran to win as opposed to their opponent (I'm talking mid masters and below here). This is especially true in TvP, where protoss is on 4 base and camping around with their deathball.
SC2NeCro
Profile Joined November 2011
Canada507 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-11 20:19:56
February 11 2012 20:19 GMT
#2951
Protoss will be the best race after this patch. That's more than apparent. They already have the advantage in PvT and PvZ, now it's just getting worse.
Fav Terran: forGG, aLive, Jinro ||| Fav Zerg: Moon, TLO, DRG ||| Fav Protoss: Genius, Grubby, ToD
OwNaGeForce
Profile Joined September 2011
12 Posts
February 11 2012 20:21 GMT
#2952
On February 12 2012 03:23 -Duderino- wrote:
The funny thing is that if this patch goes through the raven will replace the ghost.

So intead of Siege tank, ghost, rine.

It will be Raven, siege tank, rine/rauder.

And I will be laughing so hard when zerg realizes they would rather of had ghosts spend 2 min sniping there hearts out rather then 3 seeker missile killing all there broodlords at once.


Heaven forbid this actually works well, or else it will probably get nerfed too =(((
zmansman17
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2567 Posts
February 11 2012 20:23 GMT
#2953
You know what would be really interesting is to hear what all the Korean Terrans have to say about this, if they stay with Terran at all. Many of the Korean Terrans actually random on ladder and can play every race with their MMR.

I Wouldn't be surprised if the intent of this change is actually different in scope than we actually think.

Maybe the goal is to drive pros away from ghosts and into more Raven-based HSM play. Honestly, that is the only other vialbe option against Broodlords (If anyone doubts me on this, refer to the 2 posts above me with MVP on BelShir Beach when he attempts to use vikings without ghosts).

So perhaps the ultimate goal is to do just that-- change the metagame, gameplay and maybe even force some of the Korean Terrans (let's face it, some of the top professional players) to consider switching races.
♞ - His EKG is flattening get me a defib stat! Prepped and Ready! - ♞
riff
Profile Joined December 2010
United States113 Posts
February 11 2012 20:23 GMT
#2954
It doesn't matter how low Terran representation goes in the lower leagues as long as it's balanced in the top Korean leagues. These nerfs are for the best, not for the baddies. Any bets on which lower league (Bronze-GM on any server) will hit sub-20% Terran representation next season?
There is no teacher but the enemy. No one but the enemy will tell you what the enemy is going to do. No one but the enemy will ever teach you how to destroy and conquer. Only the enemy shows you where you are weak. -Mazer Rackham
Blasterion
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
China10272 Posts
February 11 2012 20:25 GMT
#2955
On February 12 2012 05:23 riff wrote:
It doesn't matter how low Terran representation goes in the lower leagues as long as it's balanced in the top Korean leagues. These nerfs are for the best, not for the baddies. Any bets on which lower league (Bronze-GM on any server) will hit sub-20% Terran representation next season?

Platinum to Diamond maybe. Bronze- Gold are too terrible to be affected, Master-Grandmaster will be able to adapt well enough
Platinum to Diamond players are stubborn and like to stick to their comfort zones then give up and switch races.
[TLNY]Mahjong Club Thread
zmansman17
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2567 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-11 20:37:43
February 11 2012 20:29 GMT
#2956
On February 12 2012 05:25 Blasterion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2012 05:23 riff wrote:
It doesn't matter how low Terran representation goes in the lower leagues as long as it's balanced in the top Korean leagues. These nerfs are for the best, not for the baddies. Any bets on which lower league (Bronze-GM on any server) will hit sub-20% Terran representation next season?

Platinum to Diamond maybe. Bronze- Gold are too terrible to be affected, Master-Grandmaster will be able to adapt well enough
Platinum to Diamond players are stubborn and like to stick to their comfort zones then give up and switch races.


This certainly will affect all masters players and even GM players on the NA server. I rely on ghosts in late game TvP and TvZ for snipes on zealots in the first MU and snipes on ultras, broodlords in the second MU. I'm sure how these changes are going to drastically reduce my ability to win in these late game settings. Sure, I may adapt and go for more all-in mid game timings, but I can't see how this won't reach top masters players (rank 2 master) or GM players.
♞ - His EKG is flattening get me a defib stat! Prepped and Ready! - ♞
R!!
Profile Joined November 2011
Brazil938 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-11 20:33:04
February 11 2012 20:32 GMT
#2957
On February 12 2012 05:25 Blasterion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2012 05:23 riff wrote:
It doesn't matter how low Terran representation goes in the lower leagues as long as it's balanced in the top Korean leagues. These nerfs are for the best, not for the baddies. Any bets on which lower league (Bronze-GM on any server) will hit sub-20% Terran representation next season?

Platinum to Diamond maybe. Bronze- Gold are too terrible to be affected, Master-Grandmaster will be able to adapt well enough
Platinum to Diamond players are stubborn and like to stick to their comfort zones then give up and switch races.

How masters 'will be able to adapt well' if there the terran numbers are also constantly going down ?
I like the part where sense is considered a common, settled thing.
Cdtf
Profile Joined February 2012
France15 Posts
February 11 2012 20:33 GMT
#2958
On February 12 2012 05:25 Blasterion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2012 05:23 riff wrote:
It doesn't matter how low Terran representation goes in the lower leagues as long as it's balanced in the top Korean leagues. These nerfs are for the best, not for the baddies. Any bets on which lower league (Bronze-GM on any server) will hit sub-20% Terran representation next season?

Platinum to Diamond maybe. Bronze- Gold are too terrible to be affected, Master-Grandmaster will be able to adapt well enough
Platinum to Diamond players are stubborn and like to stick to their comfort zones then give up and switch races.



Yup. As a low level (Gold) Terran player, I cannot say this patch will change anything for me. Actually, I use Ghosts for the Nukes and the EMP. That's all.

BUT.

Guys saying "Men, if the Protoss has a death ball, or if the Zerg has mass BL, you did it wrong" are fools. We should be able to play late game as well. I'm a casual player. I'm here for the lol factor, and I would like to make fun of all my units. So, no problem with Ghost nerf, if only we could use all our T3 units

Battle Cruiser need a buff. BC is an "a-click" unit, just like BL and Corruptors. Perfect for unskilled gamers. Huge sky fights on TvZ late game would be so much fun, and a good answer to the low Terran winrate after the 20 minutes mark.
"Impossible n'est pas Terran."
ActionpointTV
Profile Joined May 2011
60 Posts
February 11 2012 20:39 GMT
#2959
On February 12 2012 04:53 duct_TAPE wrote:
Show nested quote +
It's OK for zerg to be a little cost ineffective as long as they maintain economic lead enough to overcome that, thats exclusively zerg concept of "swarming" opponents, so, unless you're arguing that it is viable strategy for terran, we could agree that terran to win games against zerg have to be usually cost effective against zerg opponent, and I for one don't see cost effective composition against bl/infestor/corruptor not to say possibly ultra switch in late macro game and given production lag terrans inherently have, they generally need universal army which, to some extend, could fight against everything zerg throw at them to be effective.


I agree with your point of Terran having to be a bit more cost effective than zerg just because of the nature of the two races, that's the reason I made my point. But as wierd as it sounds, it dosn't make sense to ever bring in the 'units lost' tab in a balance discussion cause the races are functioning in a different way. I don't think you understood me right, I made the argument that you can't bring in cost efficiency in the game like Duderino did in his post, I'm not talking about the specific balance of the game itself.

I see no reason not to consider unit costs in this discussion, especially after we agreed upon that terran need for been cost effective against zerg. Counter unit by definition is a unit that is able to take out its target in a cost effective manner, soft counter=slightly more cost effective, hard counter= largely cost effective. We cannot talk about units and counter units without counting their costs, otherwise one could say that banelings are counter to spreader thors, with is absurd, so here we have to keep units cost in mind and, following this logic, ghosts won't be a counter to broodlords or ultralisks if this patch goes through unchanged.
In one thing I think we can both agree, that only time will show have exactly this change will affect zvt, but ,something tells me, terrans have one hell of a challenge before them.
Blasterion
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
China10272 Posts
February 11 2012 20:41 GMT
#2960
On February 12 2012 05:39 Remi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 12 2012 04:53 duct_TAPE wrote:
It's OK for zerg to be a little cost ineffective as long as they maintain economic lead enough to overcome that, thats exclusively zerg concept of "swarming" opponents, so, unless you're arguing that it is viable strategy for terran, we could agree that terran to win games against zerg have to be usually cost effective against zerg opponent, and I for one don't see cost effective composition against bl/infestor/corruptor not to say possibly ultra switch in late macro game and given production lag terrans inherently have, they generally need universal army which, to some extend, could fight against everything zerg throw at them to be effective.


I agree with your point of Terran having to be a bit more cost effective than zerg just because of the nature of the two races, that's the reason I made my point. But as wierd as it sounds, it dosn't make sense to ever bring in the 'units lost' tab in a balance discussion cause the races are functioning in a different way. I don't think you understood me right, I made the argument that you can't bring in cost efficiency in the game like Duderino did in his post, I'm not talking about the specific balance of the game itself.

I see no reason not to consider unit costs in this discussion, especially after we agreed upon that terran need for been cost effective against zerg. Counter unit by definition is a unit that is able to take out its target in a cost effective manner, soft counter=slightly more cost effective, hard counter= largely cost effective. We cannot talk about units and counter units without counting their costs, otherwise one could say that banelings are counter to spreader thors, with is absurd, so here we have to keep units cost in mind and, following this logic, ghosts won't be a counter to broodlords or ultralisks if this patch goes through unchanged.
In one thing I think we can both agree, that only time will show have exactly this change will affect zvt, but ,something tells me, terrans have one hell of a challenge before them.

Soft Counter is.... Require work and micro to counter, Hard Counter is A-move counter i believe.
[TLNY]Mahjong Club Thread
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