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Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay.
Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions. |
On February 11 2012 18:13 tdt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 17:54 Griffith` wrote:
Ravens here we come LOL
HSM = shittier irradiate in every way I know you're joking but you may get one or two BL with HSM since it's massive and even then it won't kill it with 225 health. HSM is a blizz troll like carrier but even worse. Now if they made PDD block broodlings I could see some viability.
yep - i tried using HSMs on ultra once - instead the Z just ran his ultra into my units and HSM ended up doing more damage to my own units than the ultra.
TL;DR there is no effective way to deal with ultra short of marauders
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I see a lot of whines because of terran 1- or 2-base all-ins rising 
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United States13143 Posts
On February 11 2012 18:14 Notfragile wrote:
I love the QQing around here. July vs MVP on I believe GSL August. Just watch. Wave after wave of broods or ultras (constantly switching) out of 5 bases and ghost just sniping the shit out of them. This is not cool. T3 must be painful to deal with. Not impossible but painful. Spam snipe + some siege tanks is easy enough.
But on the other hand, only 25 damage seems really really weak. Make it 35 and see how it rolls. Because it's true that zergs just defend till the late game and then try to win with broods or ultras (just because we cannot break a defensively positioned terran without being at least 40 supply up). And it's true that the terran needs an all-around solution, good for both ultra and brood. But as a SUPPORT unit. Marauders + ghosts to soften ultras up. Vikings + ghosts to kill some broods off before the engagement actually begins.
25 damage seems to severe of a nerf. I actually like the ghost transition in the late game but as a supplement to the normal army. Not 20 ghosts plus a few tanks = dead zerg army. More like 6 ghosts + tanks + marauders = dead ultralisk army. And then if he switches make some vikings. We need to be able to kill a terran who does not respond well with the switches.
tell me more about how Battlecruisers, Ravens, and Thors are painful to deal with.
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On February 11 2012 18:14 Notfragile wrote:
I love the QQing around here. July vs MVP on I believe GSL August. Just watch. Wave after wave of broods or ultras (constantly switching) out of 5 bases and ghost just sniping the shit out of them. This is not cool. T3 must be painful to deal with. Not impossible but painful. Spam snipe + some siege tanks is easy enough.
But on the other hand, only 25 damage seems really really weak. Make it 35 and see how it rolls. Because it's true that zergs just defend till the late game and then try to win with broods or ultras (just because we cannot break a defensively positioned terran without being at least 40 supply up). And it's true that the terran needs an all-around solution, good for both ultra and brood. But as a SUPPORT unit. Marauders + ghosts to soften ultras up. Vikings + ghosts to kill some broods off before the engagement actually begins.
25 damage seems to severe of a nerf. I actually like the ghost transition in the late game but as a supplement to the normal army. Not 20 ghosts plus a few tanks = dead zerg army. More like 6 ghosts + tanks + marauders = dead ultralisk army. And then if he switches make some vikings. We need to be able to kill a terran who does not respond well with the switches.
Honestly,i dun mind them getting 35 dmg. The real problem was the RANGE of snipe that outrange siege attack of BLs. Ghost could rape BLs with impunity with just snipe. and even ultras if they have enough ghost.They should try to reduce snipe by 1 or 1.5 or 2 and give them around 35-40 dmg.
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On February 11 2012 18:22 FakeDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 18:14 Notfragile wrote:
I love the QQing around here. July vs MVP on I believe GSL August. Just watch. Wave after wave of broods or ultras (constantly switching) out of 5 bases and ghost just sniping the shit out of them. This is not cool. T3 must be painful to deal with. Not impossible but painful. Spam snipe + some siege tanks is easy enough.
But on the other hand, only 25 damage seems really really weak. Make it 35 and see how it rolls. Because it's true that zergs just defend till the late game and then try to win with broods or ultras (just because we cannot break a defensively positioned terran without being at least 40 supply up). And it's true that the terran needs an all-around solution, good for both ultra and brood. But as a SUPPORT unit. Marauders + ghosts to soften ultras up. Vikings + ghosts to kill some broods off before the engagement actually begins.
25 damage seems to severe of a nerf. I actually like the ghost transition in the late game but as a supplement to the normal army. Not 20 ghosts plus a few tanks = dead zerg army. More like 6 ghosts + tanks + marauders = dead ultralisk army. And then if he switches make some vikings. We need to be able to kill a terran who does not respond well with the switches.
Honestly,i dun mind them getting 35 dmg. The real problem was the RANGE of snipe that outrange siege attack of BLs. Ghost could rape BLs with impunity with just snipe. and even ultras if they have enough ghost.They should try to reduce snipe by 1 or 1.5 or 2 and give them around 35-40 dmg.
That would break TvP
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How can terrans really bitch about the snipe change? It's fucking hilarious... Ghosts are SO freaking powerful and beeing able to counter every single thing thrown at you from zerg with _1_ unit is disturbing. I for one think this was really needed and it's justified.
Let's just look at the ghost for a while. It has the most HP out of all of the offensive casters in the game, not counting Battlecruisers and mamaship. It has NO freaking armor type besides psyonic which makes them very hard to kill (unless you have ghosts yourself).
Ghosts have more DPS than STIMMED marines vs light units... (Suck on that one. Infestors and templar doesnt even have an attack).
Ghosts can become invisibile.
Both of the offensive abilities have longer range than the two other offensive casters for the other two races (infestor and templar).
Now with this change to snipe, the ghosts is still pretty fucking good and can, and should be used regardless if they can just annihilate an entire T3 army within seconds.
I don't get it, ghosts are arguably the most wellrounded unit in the game, and can do so many things very well that a change like this feels more than justified and should probably have been standard to begin with.
This snipe change should just create more dynamic in the TvZ matchup in general, which can't be bad.
Terran complaining about their lategame in general are also narrow minded. The only race that can replace most of their workers for armysupply can't be weak lategame...
In regards to the phoenix change, I really like it, it will also help the unit not just die when fighting with them straight up army vs army because they become a closer and higher prio target.
<3 APM change :D. Feels generally that blizzard has been listening to alot of things and take them into true consideration. I also really like that they put in new maps from the community into the mappool :D.
Good patch, I hope it goes through!
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On February 11 2012 18:22 FakeDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 18:14 Notfragile wrote:
I love the QQing around here. July vs MVP on I believe GSL August. Just watch. Wave after wave of broods or ultras (constantly switching) out of 5 bases and ghost just sniping the shit out of them. This is not cool. T3 must be painful to deal with. Not impossible but painful. Spam snipe + some siege tanks is easy enough.
But on the other hand, only 25 damage seems really really weak. Make it 35 and see how it rolls. Because it's true that zergs just defend till the late game and then try to win with broods or ultras (just because we cannot break a defensively positioned terran without being at least 40 supply up). And it's true that the terran needs an all-around solution, good for both ultra and brood. But as a SUPPORT unit. Marauders + ghosts to soften ultras up. Vikings + ghosts to kill some broods off before the engagement actually begins.
25 damage seems to severe of a nerf. I actually like the ghost transition in the late game but as a supplement to the normal army. Not 20 ghosts plus a few tanks = dead zerg army. More like 6 ghosts + tanks + marauders = dead ultralisk army. And then if he switches make some vikings. We need to be able to kill a terran who does not respond well with the switches.
Honestly,i dun mind them getting 35 dmg. The real problem was the RANGE of snipe that outrange siege attack of BLs. Ghost could rape BLs with impunity with just snipe. and even ultras if they have enough ghost.They should try to reduce snipe by 1 or 1.5 or 2 and give them around 35-40 dmg.
if you reduce snipe range youll also have to reduce templar feedback range.
becuz as it is now, the templar even gets off 1 or 2 feedbacks on the ghosts trying to snipe him.
if you reduce snipe range both ghosts will die and the templar will stay alive. :/
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On February 11 2012 18:14 Notfragile wrote:
I love the QQing around here. July vs MVP on I believe GSL August. Just watch. Wave after wave of broods or ultras (constantly switching) out of 5 bases and ghost just sniping the shit out of them. This is not cool. T3 must be painful to deal with. Not impossible but painful. Spam snipe + some siege tanks is easy enough.
But on the other hand, only 25 damage seems really really weak. Make it 35 and see how it rolls. Because it's true that zergs just defend till the late game and then try to win with broods or ultras (just because we cannot break a defensively positioned terran without being at least 40 supply up). And it's true that the terran needs an all-around solution, good for both ultra and brood. But as a SUPPORT unit. Marauders + ghosts to soften ultras up. Vikings + ghosts to kill some broods off before the engagement actually begins.
25 damage seems to severe of a nerf. I actually like the ghost transition in the late game but as a supplement to the normal army. Not 20 ghosts plus a few tanks = dead zerg army. More like 6 ghosts + tanks + marauders = dead ultralisk army. And then if he switches make some vikings. We need to be able to kill a terran who does not respond well with the switches.
Pretty much this. I'm really looking forward to HOTS just because it (hopefully) gives Zerg the option of actually attacking a turtling Terran/Toss on 2 (on some maps 3) Bases without broodlords.
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On February 11 2012 18:21 cydial wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 18:14 Notfragile wrote:
I love the QQing around here. July vs MVP on I believe GSL August. Just watch. Wave after wave of broods or ultras (constantly switching) out of 5 bases and ghost just sniping the shit out of them. This is not cool. T3 must be painful to deal with. Not impossible but painful. Spam snipe + some siege tanks is easy enough.
But on the other hand, only 25 damage seems really really weak. Make it 35 and see how it rolls. Because it's true that zergs just defend till the late game and then try to win with broods or ultras (just because we cannot break a defensively positioned terran without being at least 40 supply up). And it's true that the terran needs an all-around solution, good for both ultra and brood. But as a SUPPORT unit. Marauders + ghosts to soften ultras up. Vikings + ghosts to kill some broods off before the engagement actually begins.
25 damage seems to severe of a nerf. I actually like the ghost transition in the late game but as a supplement to the normal army. Not 20 ghosts plus a few tanks = dead zerg army. More like 6 ghosts + tanks + marauders = dead ultralisk army. And then if he switches make some vikings. We need to be able to kill a terran who does not respond well with the switches.
July could've just switched to mass ling with a few blings sprinkled in and he's good?
Yeah, he could. And at some point (out of desperation) he tried. Do you have any idea how much tanking the ghosts can do when healed by equal number of medivacs, while the tanks are cleaning the lings? If blings get by the tank fire and reach the ghosts, then yes. But lings cannot kill ghosts who are healed in a reasonable amount of time and therefore ling switches although counter, it does not work that well.
Of course I should add that the defense genious MVP is, had also a pack of marines for such an occasion that helped clean out the lings.
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On February 11 2012 18:23 SevenShots wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 18:22 FakeDeath wrote:On February 11 2012 18:14 Notfragile wrote:
I love the QQing around here. July vs MVP on I believe GSL August. Just watch. Wave after wave of broods or ultras (constantly switching) out of 5 bases and ghost just sniping the shit out of them. This is not cool. T3 must be painful to deal with. Not impossible but painful. Spam snipe + some siege tanks is easy enough.
But on the other hand, only 25 damage seems really really weak. Make it 35 and see how it rolls. Because it's true that zergs just defend till the late game and then try to win with broods or ultras (just because we cannot break a defensively positioned terran without being at least 40 supply up). And it's true that the terran needs an all-around solution, good for both ultra and brood. But as a SUPPORT unit. Marauders + ghosts to soften ultras up. Vikings + ghosts to kill some broods off before the engagement actually begins.
25 damage seems to severe of a nerf. I actually like the ghost transition in the late game but as a supplement to the normal army. Not 20 ghosts plus a few tanks = dead zerg army. More like 6 ghosts + tanks + marauders = dead ultralisk army. And then if he switches make some vikings. We need to be able to kill a terran who does not respond well with the switches.
Honestly,i dun mind them getting 35 dmg. The real problem was the RANGE of snipe that outrange siege attack of BLs. Ghost could rape BLs with impunity with just snipe. and even ultras if they have enough ghost.They should try to reduce snipe by 1 or 1.5 or 2 and give them around 35-40 dmg. if you reduce snipe range youll also have to reduce templar feedback range. becuz as it is now, the templar even gets off 1 or 2 feedbacks on the ghosts trying to snipe him. if you reduce snipe range both ghosts will die and the templar will stay alive. :/
Oh ya shit forgotten about TvP and the templar feedback.Guess we cant have that.Any alternatives?
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On February 11 2012 18:23 Kyuki wrote:
How can terrans really bitch about the snipe change? It's fucking hilarious... Ghosts are SO freaking powerful and beeing able to counter every single thing thrown at you from zerg with _1_ unit is disturbing. I for one think this was really needed and it's justified.
Let's just look at the ghost for a while. It has the most HP out of all of the offensive casters in the game, not counting Battlecruisers and mamaship. It has NO freaking armor type besides psyonic which makes them very hard to kill (unless you have ghosts yourself).
Ghosts have more DPS than STIMMED marines vs light units... (Suck on that one. Infestors and templar doesnt even have an attack).
Ghosts can become invisibile.
Both of the offensive abilities have longer range than the two other offensive casters for the other two races (infestor and templar).
Now with this change to snipe, the ghosts is still pretty fucking good and can, and should be used regardless if they can just annihilate an entire T3 army within seconds.
I don't get it, ghosts are arguably the most wellrounded unit in the game, and can do so many things very well that a change like this feels more than justified and should probably have been standard to begin with.
This snipe change should just create more dynamic in the TvZ matchup in general, which can't be bad.
Terran complaining about their lategame in general are also narrow minded. The only race that can replace most of their workers for armysupply can't be weak lategame...
In regards to the phoenix change, I really like it, it will also help the unit not just die when fighting with them straight up army vs army because they become a closer and higher prio target.
<3 APM change :D. Feels generally that blizzard has been listening to alot of things and take them into true consideration. I also really like that they put in new maps from the community into the mappool :D.
Good patch, I hope it goes through!
but stat says otherwise. It says that terran is really weak late game. Snipe nerf may be needed but 25 dmg really? Don't be so biased.
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On February 11 2012 18:23 abalam wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 18:14 Notfragile wrote:
I love the QQing around here. July vs MVP on I believe GSL August. Just watch. Wave after wave of broods or ultras (constantly switching) out of 5 bases and ghost just sniping the shit out of them. This is not cool. T3 must be painful to deal with. Not impossible but painful. Spam snipe + some siege tanks is easy enough.
But on the other hand, only 25 damage seems really really weak. Make it 35 and see how it rolls. Because it's true that zergs just defend till the late game and then try to win with broods or ultras (just because we cannot break a defensively positioned terran without being at least 40 supply up). And it's true that the terran needs an all-around solution, good for both ultra and brood. But as a SUPPORT unit. Marauders + ghosts to soften ultras up. Vikings + ghosts to kill some broods off before the engagement actually begins.
25 damage seems to severe of a nerf. I actually like the ghost transition in the late game but as a supplement to the normal army. Not 20 ghosts plus a few tanks = dead zerg army. More like 6 ghosts + tanks + marauders = dead ultralisk army. And then if he switches make some vikings. We need to be able to kill a terran who does not respond well with the switches.
Pretty much this. I'm really looking forward to HOTS just because it (hopefully) gives Zerg the option of actually attacking a turtling Terran/Toss on 2 (on some maps 3) Bases without broodlords.
i actually think in hots terran will be able to turtle even harder - thanks to this new aoe thing they get and hellions that actually
tank damage.
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On February 11 2012 18:23 Kyuki wrote:
How can terrans really bitch about the snipe change? It's fucking hilarious... Ghosts are SO freaking powerful and beeing able to counter every single thing thrown at you from zerg with _1_ unit is disturbing. I for one think this was really needed and it's justified.
Let's just look at the ghost for a while. It has the most HP out of all of the offensive casters in the game, not counting Battlecruisers and mamaship. It has NO freaking armor type besides psyonic which makes them very hard to kill (unless you have ghosts yourself).
Ghosts have more DPS than STIMMED marines vs light units... (Suck on that one. Infestors and templar doesnt even have an attack).
Ghosts can become invisibile.
Both of the offensive abilities have longer range than the two other offensive casters for the other two races (infestor and templar).
Now with this change to snipe, the ghosts is still pretty fucking good and can, and should be used regardless if they can just annihilate an entire T3 army within seconds.
I don't get it, ghosts are arguably the most wellrounded unit in the game, and can do so many things very well that a change like this feels more than justified and should probably have been standard to begin with.
This snipe change should just create more dynamic in the TvZ matchup in general, which can't be bad.
Terran complaining about their lategame in general are also narrow minded. The only race that can replace most of their workers for armysupply can't be weak lategame...
In regards to the phoenix change, I really like it, it will also help the unit not just die when fighting with them straight up army vs army because they become a closer and higher prio target.
<3 APM change :D. Feels generally that blizzard has been listening to alot of things and take them into true consideration. I also really like that they put in new maps from the community into the mappool :D.
Good patch, I hope it goes through!
You can't really compare units cross race like that due to complementary units and other units they have. For example stalker is a POS compared to marine or marauder or roach or hydra cost/cost before blink. But Toss has FF. Imagine giving FF to Terran or Zerg they'd never lose with the kind of T1 and T2 firepower they have.
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I think the patch is good all around but I'm a little bit worried about ZvP, zerg have had a very difficult time lately in the GSL against protoss (much more than against terran), and the only thing that's been keeping them afloat was the fear of the mutas really.
I mean in the Genius vs nestea series, genius already was able to completely shut down mutas with phoenix and smart play, I can't imagine how it would look like with the range upgrade.
I think it's reasonable for protoss to have a way to deal with mutas, but I strongly believe zerg should be given some sort of compensation in exchange, especially on the ground where their army is complete garbage against protoss (mainly because of force fields). It's gonna be ugly for zerg if this goes through unchanged I think.
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Hmmm I really think now it is really really hard to deal with Zerg in late game. You have to kill the Zerg before the hive hits. In the Zerg doesnt care if he loses his whole army because he can reinforce so much faster than the terran ( assuming that he injects decently ). And yeah I dunno how the meta game in this matchup will shift but it will be a lot harder.
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On February 11 2012 18:32 SevenShots wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2012 18:23 abalam wrote:On February 11 2012 18:14 Notfragile wrote:
I love the QQing around here. July vs MVP on I believe GSL August. Just watch. Wave after wave of broods or ultras (constantly switching) out of 5 bases and ghost just sniping the shit out of them. This is not cool. T3 must be painful to deal with. Not impossible but painful. Spam snipe + some siege tanks is easy enough.
But on the other hand, only 25 damage seems really really weak. Make it 35 and see how it rolls. Because it's true that zergs just defend till the late game and then try to win with broods or ultras (just because we cannot break a defensively positioned terran without being at least 40 supply up). And it's true that the terran needs an all-around solution, good for both ultra and brood. But as a SUPPORT unit. Marauders + ghosts to soften ultras up. Vikings + ghosts to kill some broods off before the engagement actually begins.
25 damage seems to severe of a nerf. I actually like the ghost transition in the late game but as a supplement to the normal army. Not 20 ghosts plus a few tanks = dead zerg army. More like 6 ghosts + tanks + marauders = dead ultralisk army. And then if he switches make some vikings. We need to be able to kill a terran who does not respond well with the switches.
Pretty much this. I'm really looking forward to HOTS just because it (hopefully) gives Zerg the option of actually attacking a turtling Terran/Toss on 2 (on some maps 3) Bases without broodlords. i actually think in hots terran will be able to turtle even harder - thanks to this new aoe thing they get and hellions that actually tank damage.
Good luck trying to turtle when zerg has few vipers and infestors with him. =P
Anyway, I wonder how much damage blue flame upgrade will increase battlehellions damage.
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I have a question about the phoenix range upgrade.
Mind you, I only watch starcraft, don't play it, so please be gentle 
Will this affect graviton beam as well? I can see some potential for phoenix harass.... what is the range on missile turrets and spore crawlers?
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More Terran Nerfs.
Standard.
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phoenix buff is really nice hopefully we'll see sum nice air battles in mid game to dominate late game
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EPT
