EPTHow are Terrans supposed to stop Broodlord/Infestor/Queen/Crackling pushes? I don't see how they will with Vikings being so terrible against Corrupters.
Patch 1.4.3 - Preview Blog - Page 128
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Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay. Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions. | ||
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Lunareste
United States3596 Posts
How are Terrans supposed to stop Broodlord/Infestor/Queen/Crackling pushes? I don't see how they will with Vikings being so terrible against Corrupters. | ||
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R!!
Brazil938 Posts
On February 11 2012 18:23 Kyuki wrote: How can terrans really bitch about the snipe change? It's fucking hilarious... Ghosts are SO freaking powerful and beeing able to counter every single thing thrown at you from zerg with _1_ unit is disturbing. I for one think this was really needed and it's justified. Let's just look at the ghost for a while. It has the most HP out of all of the offensive casters in the game, not counting Battlecruisers and mamaship. It has NO freaking armor type besides psyonic which makes them very hard to kill (unless you have ghosts yourself). Ghosts have more DPS than STIMMED marines vs light units... (Suck on that one. Infestors and templar doesnt even have an attack). Ghosts can become invisibile. Both of the offensive abilities have longer range than the two other offensive casters for the other two races (infestor and templar). Now with this change to snipe, the ghosts is still pretty fucking good and can, and should be used regardless if they can just annihilate an entire T3 army within seconds. I don't get it, ghosts are arguably the most wellrounded unit in the game, and can do so many things very well that a change like this feels more than justified and should probably have been standard to begin with. This snipe change should just create more dynamic in the TvZ matchup in general, which can't be bad. Terran complaining about their lategame in general are also narrow minded. The only race that can replace most of their workers for armysupply can't be weak lategame... In regards to the phoenix change, I really like it, it will also help the unit not just die when fighting with them straight up army vs army because they become a closer and higher prio target. <3 APM change :D. Feels generally that blizzard has been listening to alot of things and take them into true consideration. I also really like that they put in new maps from the community into the mappool :D. Good patch, I hope it goes through! Good job at pointing out irrelevant things without a context, and good luck with your uh-oh mighty invisibility against the cheap as fuck overseers, that now can't be killed, but if you wanna random talk without a context, I'm pretty sure that every terran would trade ghosts for infestors ANY DAY, in fact, you should probably make a pool and see how much we love the "most wellrounded unit in the game", and why don't you give it a try at using them and see how you fucking fail because you don't have MVP's 400 apm, it's a sad thing that we terrans had to first achieve tendonitis to be able to even compete vs zerg air and now even that option has been taken from us, if MVP couldn't win(he didn't even come close to winning) with more than 30 +3 spread out vikings, I don't see how I can do any better | ||
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VoO
Germany278 Posts
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tztztz
Germany314 Posts
On February 11 2012 18:40 Lunareste wrote: I think with the amount of snipes that Ghosts will need to kill Brood Lords, Queens should be unable to transfuse them. How are Terrans supposed to stop Broodlord/Infestor/Queen/Crackling pushes? I don't see how they will with Vikings being so terrible against Corrupters. lol vikings terrible against corrupters?? | ||
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Masq
Canada1792 Posts
On February 11 2012 18:15 FakeDeath wrote: I love the change and the nerf seems harsh but now snipe does 50 dmg to infestor meaning they can snipe them twice instead of 3 times. While true, I think a lot of people are overlooking the roles of infestor/templar and the new role of ghost. The infestor and templar are both used for situational zoning as well as an aoe damage increase for medium/large battles. Ghosts are now a supposed counter to those casters, but offer no aoe damage vs terran/zerg. Unit - Cost(Mineral/Gas/Supply) - Production Time Ghost - 200/100(2) - 40s Infestor - 100/150(2) - 50s High Templar - 50/150(2) - 32 Total Costs Ghost - 300 resources Infestor - 250 Resources High Templar - 200 resources Caster / Mana / Damage Ratio Ghost - Snipe 25 Energy (25dmg+25psionic) = 1mana per damage (2 vs psionic units) - EMP 75 Energy (1.5radius) 100 shield/energy damage - Cloak Infestor - Fungal 75 Energy 1.5radius (30(+10 armored)/4) = 7.5 dps(10 vs armored) + Immobilize - Infested Terrans - Neural Parasite High Templar - Storm 75 Energy (1.5 radius) 80 damage/4s = 20dps - Feedback Anyway, before I waste too much time on silly things such as dps/dpm (which you can't calculate anyway, due to it being situationally dependent) and not to mention APM requirements (5 storm/fungals vs 45 snipes). I just hope they adjust ghosts cost in response to making them much more niche units now. | ||
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Wildmoon
Thailand4189 Posts
Vikings are bad against mass coruptor/infestor. 1 fungal and you lose. | ||
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tztztz
Germany314 Posts
On February 11 2012 18:47 Wildmoon wrote: Vikings are bad against mass coruptor/infestor. 1 fungal and you lose. if you add infestor, yeah, but corruptors alone get owned by vikings... | ||
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Gheizen64
Italy2077 Posts
There are stats, Terran is the weakest race lategame period. A lategame nerf is retarded, since it will only make the game even more tilted on all-ins and early timing play. How anyone can be happy of something like this i don't know, it will kill the game from a spectating PoV. | ||
Elyvilon
United States13143 Posts
On February 11 2012 18:48 tztztz wrote: if you add infestor, yeah, but corruptors alone get owned by vikings... actually, corruptors alone are pretty even against vikings because they have a bunch of armor. Also, you have corruption if you actually use it. | ||
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Aserrin
Uruguay231 Posts
Snipe I'm not so sure... we'll see how terran pros handle infestor + bloodlord from now on. Edit: Now I remember that you can transfuse those, too. God damn. Let's see what Mvp and MMA come up with. | ||
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DanTheDon
Norway3 Posts
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ThePurist
Canada686 Posts
The snipe change is kind of weird - it seems too forced for "casters-only" I guess in TvZ it should work out, but what about TvT and ghost rushes and nifty ghost usage? | ||
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Inex
Bulgaria443 Posts
Ghost snipe was painful to watch as a 5 base tier 3 zerg was struggling to put any pressure on a 3/4 base terran, so I think that should be a good move. Mules change goes without saying, everyone should benefit equally from gold bases. | ||
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Kharnage
Australia920 Posts
My god, you're going to have to use vikings vs BL and Marauders vs Ultras. Boohoo to you. Mules nerf on gold bases YAY! Phoenix range upgrade off fleet beacon. Dunno if i'll ever bother getting it. If you don't have phoenix when the mutas pop you can't play catchup effectively anyway. If some phoenix are out then chrono some more, get +1 attack and you're pretty much ok vs mutas anyway... Wish they did something, anything, with the carrier. | ||
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xollner
Canada13 Posts
honestly I don't understand how this snipe change is justified without buffing something else when terran still struggle with lategame tvz and the current implementation of ghosts/snipe... mandatory cheese or allin every game. or just switch to zerg/protoss.... I really don't like this "balance". | ||
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HaXXspetten
Sweden15718 Posts
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Son of Gnome
United States777 Posts
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Drowsy
United States4876 Posts
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R!!
Brazil938 Posts
On February 11 2012 18:59 HaXXspetten wrote: Okay, for all you Terrans complaining that it will now take way too many snipes to kill Brood Lords/Ultras, try to get this in your head: Snipe is not supposed to kill Brood Lords/Ultras. Okay? They're meant to snipe low-hp, high-priority casters, like High Templars and Infestors, not the beefiest units in the game. Nice context you have there, snipe is not supposed to kill brood/ultra, what else, genius?Nothing else to add?What about reading the thread, instead of simply throwing around ignorant statements? On February 11 2012 19:02 Son of Gnome wrote: I think this makes the whole idea of an army of mass corrupters and bls really really hard to beat for terran because terran wont be able to produce vikings at a rate that the zerg can produce the two units mentioned above. There is also the upgrade disadvantage that will occur because terran wont be using air until the late game also if a few infestors are throw in its basically game. Precisely, since ghosts won't be used nearly as much, terrans will most definetely have way less tech labs than we normally have, since the only use for them will take place when we scout ultra tech, another big thing is that, since we lost the safety route that ghosts usually are, terrans will be a lot more subject to hidden tech switches(a strategy terran does not have in the late game arsenal, we are always the subject, zerg doesn't go batshit whenever they see we are massing marauders/vikings), which means that we will need to scan a lot more and with greater frequency. | ||
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TigerKarl
1757 Posts
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