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Patch 1.4.3 - Preview Blog - Page 112

Forum Index > SC2 General
4449 CommentsPost a Reply
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Please DISCUSS the changes and the impact they will have on gameplay.

Straight up whining and bitching will get you a ban, no exceptions.
vorxaw
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada245 Posts
February 11 2012 02:27 GMT
#2221
Agree with others, snipe should be nerfed only on massive units.
If you cant even 1-shot the lowest tier units, why even call it snipe or require precision clicking? Might as well call it slightly-stronger-marine-rifle.
AxionSteel
Profile Joined January 2011
United States7754 Posts
February 11 2012 02:27 GMT
#2222
On February 11 2012 11:15 NoctemSC wrote:
Yet another nerf for Terran and another buff for Toss.
You're seriously making Terran the worst race to choose. Players at all levels who play terran will agree that the mechanics are harder than any race and with these continued changes it's going to be even hard.
If you disagree, go play terran for a month.
They've just successfully made ghosts the most useless unit aside from emp'ing HT and festors. Whereis the Casters for both toss and Zerg are immensely powerful. Both are good mid/late game with huge splash damage. This is ridiculous.


Yeh, the hardest race to play gets even harder, I love it :D

Cloud9157
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2968 Posts
February 11 2012 02:27 GMT
#2223
On February 11 2012 11:24 NoctemSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 11:22 Cloud9157 wrote:
On February 11 2012 11:18 NoctemSC wrote:
On February 11 2012 11:17 darkness wrote:
On February 11 2012 11:15 NoctemSC wrote:
Yet another nerf for Terran and another buff for Toss.
You're seriously making Terran the worst race to choose. Players at all levels who play terran will agree that the mechanics are harder than any race and with these continued changes it's going to be even hard.
If you disagree, go play terran for a month.
They've just successfully made ghosts the most useless unit aside from emp'ing HT and festors. Whereis the Casters for both toss and Zerg are immensely powerful. Both are good mid/late game with huge splash damage. This is ridiculous.


Then EMP has huge splash as well?

Emp splash is only 1.5 and it does no damage. Both Storm and Fungal do huge AoE damage. If a protoss spreads his HT then you lose. Period. Late game toss is ridiculously hard to stop as terran.


You're right, EMP does not take away all of the shields of every Protoss unit except Colossi, Carriers, and the Mothership. It clearly needs to be 500 shield damage.

EMP is the only AoE that can remove energy from a unit.


Yes but storm can do so much more damage to a Terran army than emp can. Besides, toss has a more powerful army overall. This is not just about TvP either, you're forgetting TvZ which is the more relevant matchup for this nerf.


No it fucking doesn't. 80 damage does not beat 100. Granted not every Protoss unit has 100 shields, but you can kinda dodge storms, whereas EMP is instant damage.

Toss has a more powerful army because they cost more. Its a fucking stalemate.
"Are you absolutely sure that armor only affects the health portion of a protoss army??? That doesn't sound right to me. source?" -Some idiot
tnud
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Sweden2233 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-11 02:29:19
February 11 2012 02:27 GMT
#2224
On February 11 2012 11:26 Scila wrote:
I'm still appalled that people think Snipe is overpowered versus Zerg t3. It takes a ridiculous amount of Snipes to kill a SINGLE t3 Zerg unit. Just putting the damage aside, it's also a huge APM requirement in a major battle. If you sit there with your clumped up 14 Ghosts and the Zerg attacks you with ling/bling/infestor/blord (relatively standard late game) all your marines and ghosts will die very quickly. Yes, if we put Ghosts and Broodlords or Ultras in a cavuum where nothing touches them, the Ghosts will win. But you also have to spread units out, stim, siege, kite, etc in a late game TvZ engagement.

Unsurprisingly the majority of TLers are zerg =P

No seriously the snipe nerf might be too harsh. Terran has the weakest lategame army in a straight up fight and this nerf doesn't improve on this. Not being able to snipe banelings suck..
- ಠ_ಠ - | disinfect wrote: AHAHHAHAHA 2DG FUCK ME ALREADY.
0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
February 11 2012 02:28 GMT
#2225
why not make snipe more expensive but do more damage. I don't like how they approached that nerf, but I guess we'll see.
ChaosTerran
Profile Joined August 2011
Austria844 Posts
February 11 2012 02:29 GMT
#2226
On February 11 2012 11:23 jgelling wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 11:22 NoctemSC wrote:
On February 11 2012 11:21 jgelling wrote:
On February 11 2012 11:19 ChaosTerran wrote:
On February 11 2012 11:05 lachy89 wrote:
On February 11 2012 11:03 Scila wrote:
On February 11 2012 10:56 NoobCrunch wrote:
On February 11 2012 10:51 On_Slaught wrote:
On February 11 2012 10:48 lachy89 wrote:
Zerg player

APM change > Awesome
Pheonix Change > I like it
Mule Change > Seems fine to me
Ghost Change > a bit too much, make snipe unusable on Massive and be done with it.


Seems like making Snipe unusable on Massive Units would have been a solution that made much more sense. The 2 shot infestor is nice tho.



That is assuming that ghost snipe was imbalanced in the first place.


Which it wasn't...TvZ was still roughly 50/50 in late games, in fact Zerg has a general advantage in the late game...


I believe it would be better for the match up if ghosts countered 1 T3 unit and not the other, making ghosts unable to snipe ultras would make the match-up more interesting imo, and also shouldn't provide zerg with an extreme advantage (I don't think many people would complain that ultras are OP due to not being snipes).


?

So let's say a Terran masses Ghosts to prepare for Lategame and the Zerg then just builds Ultras. Terran lost. GG

First of all, not necessarily: ultras aren't that great. Second of all, you'll have tanks. Third of all, if you blindly mass any one unit you deserve to lose. GG.

You obviously have no experience playing terran. Siege tanks are crap vs ultras with armor.

Yes, if you group them all in a big cluster with no support units except the 20 ghosts you built blindly, then yes.


You have no idea about terran dude. So what now? terran has to spread marine, kite, siege and unsiege tanks, spread out ghosts, spam snipe and kite with vikings all at the same time just to have a realistic chance in beating an amoving zerg with infestor/broodlord? How in the world does that sound even remotely fair to you?
Sajaki
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada1135 Posts
February 11 2012 02:30 GMT
#2227
On February 11 2012 11:01 Reval wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 10:48 lachy89 wrote:
Zerg player

APM change > Awesome
Pheonix Change > I like it
Mule Change > Seems fine to me
Ghost Change > a bit too much, make snipe unusable on Massive and be done with it.


Protoss player

I agree with this. Snipe back to 45 and cannot target massive units


Much better idea. 45 (-20 massive)
Now it does fine vs infestors but is not useless vs zealots or any other nonpsionic bio unit. (banes, mutas, whatever else)
Inno pls...
ChaosTerran
Profile Joined August 2011
Austria844 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-11 02:38:26
February 11 2012 02:31 GMT
#2228
On February 11 2012 11:27 Cloud9157 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 11:24 NoctemSC wrote:
On February 11 2012 11:22 Cloud9157 wrote:
On February 11 2012 11:18 NoctemSC wrote:
On February 11 2012 11:17 darkness wrote:
On February 11 2012 11:15 NoctemSC wrote:
Yet another nerf for Terran and another buff for Toss.
You're seriously making Terran the worst race to choose. Players at all levels who play terran will agree that the mechanics are harder than any race and with these continued changes it's going to be even hard.
If you disagree, go play terran for a month.
They've just successfully made ghosts the most useless unit aside from emp'ing HT and festors. Whereis the Casters for both toss and Zerg are immensely powerful. Both are good mid/late game with huge splash damage. This is ridiculous.


Then EMP has huge splash as well?

Emp splash is only 1.5 and it does no damage. Both Storm and Fungal do huge AoE damage. If a protoss spreads his HT then you lose. Period. Late game toss is ridiculously hard to stop as terran.


You're right, EMP does not take away all of the shields of every Protoss unit except Colossi, Carriers, and the Mothership. It clearly needs to be 500 shield damage.

EMP is the only AoE that can remove energy from a unit.


Yes but storm can do so much more damage to a Terran army than emp can. Besides, toss has a more powerful army overall. This is not just about TvP either, you're forgetting TvZ which is the more relevant matchup for this nerf.


No it fucking doesn't. 80 damage does not beat 100. Granted not every Protoss unit has 100 shields, but you can kinda dodge storms, whereas EMP is instant damage.

Toss has a more powerful army because they cost more. Its a fucking stalemate.


A Marine has 50 (45-55,so people dont flame me for taking the "average" health) health, so 80 damage are deadly. Name a single protoss unit that dies from 100 shield damage, just a single protoss unit or screw that name a single protoss unit that gets close to dying after taking 100 shield damage, most protoss units will still have more than 50% health even after eating infinite EMPs, what happens when marines and marauders eat 1 or 2 storms? they vaporize.
ShatterStorm
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia146 Posts
February 11 2012 02:32 GMT
#2229
Sure late game Ghost vs Broods & Ultra were OP, but now the utility of ghost across the board will be reduced as well.
No single sniping Blings, workers or sheildless marines. Snipe now even worse than before vs zealots, and forget about Ghosts being any good to handle Muta late game as an alternative to Marines in a 200 food army.

Rather then this nerf, they could have simply given snipe a nerf vs Massive units (I.e "Snipe 45 damage, 25 damage vs Massive")
Do or do not, there is no try
hpTheGreat
Profile Joined August 2010
United States173 Posts
February 11 2012 02:32 GMT
#2230
I like the changes overall.
I dont really like 6 range on the phoenix but that's because im zerg and I find toss/terran overpowered.

Gonna try making ultras again but I'm pretty sure they'll just melt away as they always have.
M,J,Y
Profile Joined February 2012
New Zealand16 Posts
February 11 2012 02:32 GMT
#2231
I really like the phoenix change (im a zerg player to), the recent genuis vs nestea games in the gsl showed how to use phoenix to deal with muta.

The +2 ranged upgrade from the Fleat Beacon will make it viable to actually transition into a pure sky protoss with carriers, going to be a very exciting time to watch pro protoss plays and hopefully carriers can find there place in a match up and not get replaced by that derp derp air spash unit.
Acritter
Profile Joined August 2010
Syria7637 Posts
February 11 2012 02:34 GMT
#2232
On February 11 2012 11:22 DemigodcelpH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 02:40 Thorzain wrote:
I really feel that they overdid the snipe nerf. Ghosts really isn't a counter to ultralisks (300 energy to kill 1 ultralisk), and not a hard-counter to brood lords (they are good against them but not imba).

I feel that 20 damage is too much of a removal. When snipe doesn't even one shot a baneling or a zergling, something is wrong. Will be useless against zealots as well because the normal attack is just as strong as the snipe will be against light units.


Thorzain was spoken. Looks like the micro race is going to require even more skill now after this nerf, though I'll bet that it will be reversed.


Please note he didn't say the change was WRONG, only too much. He says they overdid the Snipe nerf, not that they made it unusable. He also fails to address the core of the problem, which is that Terran is able to mass a unit that can deal huge amounts of damage to the entire Zerg army without losing a single unit. That's what makes Ghosts inherently broken against Zerg: it is possible for the Terran to reach a critical mass of Ghosts that literally cannot be killed by the Zerg player, because all the Zerg units melt before they reach the Terran lines. Personally, I think Snipe should be changed to only be usable against casters, and some other aspect of Terran changed to make it more useful versus Zerg in the lategame (change HSM to deal high single-target damage but no splash? Return Irradiate?).
dont let your memes be dreams - konydora, motivational speaker | not actually living in syria
shankems2000
Profile Joined April 2010
United States103 Posts
February 11 2012 02:34 GMT
#2233
Well I'm a silver noob and don't use ghosts vs broodlords or ultras anyways, so it doesn't matter to me.
What the uff
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
February 11 2012 02:35 GMT
#2234
I don't like the way blizzard is approaching the ghost nerf. I like the fact that for 25 energy, a ghost can insta kill an unupgraded marine, zerg/baneling or worker unit(nonprotoss trololol). It makes some early somewhat gimmicky strategies very strong. Just have a -10 or -15 damage modifier to massive, and suddenly it's no longer as viable to mass ghosts and roll a zerg T3 army regardless of composition.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
citi.zen
Profile Joined April 2009
2509 Posts
February 11 2012 02:36 GMT
#2235
On February 11 2012 10:40 Mobius_1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 10:33 citi.zen wrote:
Curious how the Phoenix change will work out... in PvP!


I applaud you if you are able to play a decent proper PvP that reaches Fleet Beacon tech.

While it's no longer 4gate vs 4gate, it's not exactly BC's breaking tank lines either.

As for other changes, MULE change makes sense, I agree (though I'm Terran), Phoenix change I'm not sure about, having mass mutalisks denied is pretty much game-ending for the Zerg (although having no anti-air for Protoss against Mutas also is), however it doesn't account for the gross mismatch in quality and efficiency of ZvP ground army, even at Code S level, and even if that's the way it's supposed to play out.

That said Phoenix range creates a super neat transition into Carriers. w00t!

And last but not least and probably least important, spammable CPM FTW If I wanted to know EAPM I'd open SC2Gears and listen to Smix.

:-) great point. It has no impact on a sg opening until the game has long been decided.
Aut viam inveniam, aut faciam.
ShatterStorm
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia146 Posts
February 11 2012 02:36 GMT
#2236
As far as EMP vs Storm is concerned, sure Storm will actually "kill" units where as EMP never will... but a Terran with enough medivacs and medivac energy can retreat from a storm, heal up and then head back in very quickly... it takes substantially longer for a Toss armies shields to replenish
Do or do not, there is no try
Torra
Profile Joined October 2011
Norway469 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-11 02:39:48
February 11 2012 02:36 GMT
#2237
On February 11 2012 11:34 Acritter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 11:22 DemigodcelpH wrote:
On February 11 2012 02:40 Thorzain wrote:
I really feel that they overdid the snipe nerf. Ghosts really isn't a counter to ultralisks (300 energy to kill 1 ultralisk), and not a hard-counter to brood lords (they are good against them but not imba).

I feel that 20 damage is too much of a removal. When snipe doesn't even one shot a baneling or a zergling, something is wrong. Will be useless against zealots as well because the normal attack is just as strong as the snipe will be against light units.


Thorzain was spoken. Looks like the micro race is going to require even more skill now after this nerf, though I'll bet that it will be reversed.


Please note he didn't say the change was WRONG, only too much. He says they overdid the Snipe nerf, not that they made it unusable. He also fails to address the core of the problem, which is that Terran is able to mass a unit that can deal huge amounts of damage to the entire Zerg army without losing a single unit. That's what makes Ghosts inherently broken against Zerg: it is possible for the Terran to reach a critical mass of Ghosts that literally cannot be killed by the Zerg player, because all the Zerg units melt before they reach the Terran lines. Personally, I think Snipe should be changed to only be usable against casters, and some other aspect of Terran changed to make it more useful versus Zerg in the lategame (change HSM to deal high single-target damage but no splash? Return Irradiate?).

I've seen MVP lose a TvZ w/ 50+ ghosts. Enough said.
DemigodcelpH
Profile Joined August 2011
1138 Posts
February 11 2012 02:37 GMT
#2238
On February 11 2012 11:34 Acritter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 11:22 DemigodcelpH wrote:
On February 11 2012 02:40 Thorzain wrote:
I really feel that they overdid the snipe nerf. Ghosts really isn't a counter to ultralisks (300 energy to kill 1 ultralisk), and not a hard-counter to brood lords (they are good against them but not imba).

I feel that 20 damage is too much of a removal. When snipe doesn't even one shot a baneling or a zergling, something is wrong. Will be useless against zealots as well because the normal attack is just as strong as the snipe will be against light units.


Thorzain was spoken. Looks like the micro race is going to require even more skill now after this nerf, though I'll bet that it will be reversed.


Please note he didn't say the change was WRONG, only too much.


If it's too much then it's wrong. He put extreme emphasis on how much Blizzard over did this one. It was 300 energy to kill one ultralisk before, and now it's what? 500?
esaul17
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada547 Posts
February 11 2012 02:37 GMT
#2239
On February 11 2012 09:59 Vindicare605 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 11 2012 09:57 esaul17 wrote:
On February 11 2012 09:53 Asturas wrote:
Please Blizzard don't forget to nerf Terran more and every time. Oh wait this is what Blizzard does... No comment. This is no longer funny.

User was temp banned for this post.


Now you feel the pain of Protoss.


Protoss haven't been nerfed since the WG change.

I really don't understand where this justification comes from.

I just meant during the beta times, every single patch was a nerf for Protoss.It got depressing after a while.
magnaflow
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada1521 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-11 02:46:50
February 11 2012 02:40 GMT
#2240
The whole fix to this is don't allow fungal to root. Change it to a slow.

Feel bad for Diamond and under terran players. The BL/Infestor/Corruptor composition at lower leagues will be unbeatable. But I guess balance needs to come from the top down.





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